Posted on the SDN Facebook page today: Obese/unattractive medical students less likely to receive competitive residency

[theKingLT]

This student at a T10 school told me that at least for the MD/PHD program, if all else would equal, they’d pick the more attractive person.

Honestly I think most people can at least look decent. If you look at athletes, even the ones who don’t have insane features look good because they’re so fit and eat well.

There's a lot of self selection going on using athletes as an example. Also a lot of make-up/photo editing with the most popular/visible athletes. Even looking at some of the less visible women's sports at the top level such as softball or rowing, you see a huge distinction in body types from the more popular and "good-looking" tennis players, gymnasts, etc. Men's sports have similar diversity, but it's generally not as noticeable because size and muscle mass fit much better with male aesthetics than female.

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[deleted804295]

My fear is ending up on Botched.

Virtually all breast surgeries result in a line somewhere around your boob. Just make sure it's really what you want.

 

[ExcitatorySynapse]

There's a lot of self selection going on using athletes as an example. Also a lot of make-up/photo editing with the most popular/visible athletes. Even looking at some of the less visible women's sports at the top level such as softball or rowing, you see a huge distinction in body types from the more popular and "good-looking" tennis players, gymnasts, etc. Men's sports have similar diversity, but it's generally not as noticeable because size and muscle mass fit much better with male aesthetics than female.

That is a good point about aesthetics and how athletic prowess does not always translate exactly.
But I do think that being healthy and feeling good does translate to confidence, which is attractive. Of course, it’s easier said than done, especially under stressful circumstances.

 

[907914]

translate to confidence

How do I convey my confidence and personality in a head shot?

 

[Weirdy]

How do I convey my confidence and personality in a head shot?

By not having a double chin.

 

[klucket2]

How do I convey my confidence and personality in a head shot?

How do you convey personality/confidence in a photo where you get to decide how your hair, outfit, posture, makeup, glasses if you wear them, and facial expression look? I wonder.

 

[907914]

how your hair, outfit, posture, makeup, glasses if you wear them, and facial expression look?

Yes, because conforming to the standard professional attire/appearance really shows "you"......

 

[klucket2]

Yes, because conforming to the standard professional attire/appearance really shows "you"......

Black blue or grey suit jacket? What color tie are you wearing? It is a solid color or a pattern? Are you wearing a white button down or a colored one? Does the color tie coordinate with the color of button down shirt that you're wearing underneath the jacket? Do you have facial hair? Do you have a thicker beard or is it very close to your face? What kind of haircut do you have? Is it parted conservatively on the side and combed over? Does it look like you paid $15 for it at Supercuts or does it look like you paid $80 at a salon and you style it with pomade and a blow dryer? ( I could obviously keep going). You might not think about all of these factors when taking a professional head shot, but you should because people are going to look at your photo and assume things about you regardless. Can you learn everything about someones personality by looking at their head shot, obviously no. But to say that you cannot express any part of your personality at all is ridiculous.

 

[theKingLT]

Yes, because conforming to the standard professional attire/appearance really shows "you"......

Black blue or grey suit jacket? What color tie are you wearing? It is a solid color or a pattern? Are you wearing a white button down or a colored one? Does the color tie coordinate with the color of button down shirt that you're wearing underneath the jacket? Do you have facial hair? Do you have a thicker beard or is it very close to your face? What kind of haircut do you have? Is it parted conservatively on the side and combed over? Does it look like you paid $15 for it at Supercuts or does it look like you paid $80 at a salon and you style it with pomade and a blow dryer? ( I could obviously keep going). You might not think about all of these factors when taking a professional head shot, but you should because people are going to look at your photo and assume things about you regardless. Can you learn everything about someones personality by looking at their head shot, obviously no. But to say that you cannot express any part of your personality at all is ridiculous.

I'm with MemeLord on this one. I don't think the successful headshots in this study were successful because they portrayed confidence. They're hotties, and people like eye candy, residency admissions committees included

 

[klucket2]

I'm with MemeLord on this one. I don't think the successful headshots in this study were successful because they portrayed confidence. They're hotties, and people like eye candy, residency admissions committees included

I never said that. I'm just saying that it's possible to exude confidence and show off some of your personality in a photograph of yourself.

 

[907914]

look like you paid $15 for it at Supercuts

Literally the best haircut I have ever gotten was at the on-base barber shop for $8.

Most successful suit will be black. Most successful tie will be solid print. Most successful facial hair style will be either clean shaven or well maintained beard.

These are not things that you need to think about as the most successful and most professional aspects are already near set in stone. Putting too much thought in to it will yield varying results. What matters most is that you look professional and, as @theKingLT has pointed out, attractive.

 

[907914]

in a photograph of yourself.

Yes, in a photograph of yourself. They aren’t looking for “you” in a professional headshot. They are looking for a professional, as far as I can tell.

 

[gyngyn]

Most successful suit will be black. Most successful tie will be solid print. Most successful facial hair style will be either clean shaven or well maintained beard.

Business professional means navy or charcoal, not black.
What is a solid print?
Always shave.

 

[907914]

Business professional means navy or charcoal, not black.
What is a solid print?
Always shave.

Black = not funeral black, so charcoal I guess...lol

Solid print = unpatterned or minimal deviance in coloration

Have received conflicting advice on always clean shaven, but the majority seems to lie in the camp of well maintained beard > baby face

 

[Lucca]

There just shouldn’t head shots associated with applications. Yes, yes they’ll see you at the interview, halo effect and all that, but once you are in front of someone they also have to contend with your personality (for better or worse) and you can be your own best advocate (in part by looking sharp and put together). It won’t eliminate the bias but it’ll soften it, methinks.

 

[deleted972488]

Black = not funeral black, so charcoal I guess...lol

I think gyngyn was saying grey > black.

 

[gyngyn]

Have received conflicting advice on always clean shaven, but the majority seems to lie in the camp of well maintained beard > baby face

Always shave.

 

[dr_kateb]

Always shave.

RIP weak chins

 

[907914]

There just shouldn’t head shots associated with applications. Yes, yes they’ll see you at the interview, halo effect and all that, but once you are in front of someone they also have to contend with your personality (for better or worse) and you can be your own best advocate (in part by looking sharp and put together). It won’t eliminate the bias but it’ll soften it, methinks.

Could there be the potential that the headshot is there so you don’t hire an actor to got to your interview? Like...is that a thing?

I think gyngyn was saying grey > black.

hmmm I was thinking more like this?

I guess this is Navy blue? Meh, to me it is black. Guess it isn’t lol cool. This is what I meant when I said black. So we agree, @gyngyn

 

[907914]

RIP weak chins

Yah, this is the one SDN ADCOM advice I will never follow. After the military, beard for life. If the appearance is to my detriment then so be it, but my confidence is a lot higher when I look like me.

 

[gyngyn]

Could there be the potential that the headshot is there so you don’t hire an actor to got to your interview? Like...is that a thing?

hmmm I was thinking more like this?

View attachment 267505

I guess this is Navy blue? Meh, to me it is black. Guess it isn’t lol cool. This is what I meant when I said black. So we agree, @gyngyn

...as long as it's not black. It is a suit, though, right? Not a blazer.

 

[907914]

...as long as it's not black. It is a suit, though, right? Not a blazer.

Oh yah, definitely. Going to go suit shopping on Monday. Don’t currently own one (never actually worn a suit? Prom tux, I guess...?)

 

[gyngyn]

Oh yah, definitely. Going to go suit shopping on Monday. Don’t currently own one (never actually worn a suit? Prom tux, I guess...?)

Remember not to button the bottom jacket button.

 

[Weirdy]

Oh yah, definitely. Going to go suit shopping on Monday. Don’t currently own one (never actually worn a suit? Prom tux, I guess...?)

If you have an SO/ girlfriend/ Lady friend well versed with how you should look, bring her along.

Get it fitted. Doesn't matter where you get it from, get it fitted.

Wife had me try on suits for sale at H&M. Order online for discount. Fitted at tailor shop or if it already fits when trying in store, no need to.

Makes you look much sharper.

 

[gyngyn]

If you have an SO/ girlfriend/ Lady friend well versed with how you should look, bring her along.

It's not fashion, though...business professional.

 

[907914]

Remember not to button the bottom jacket button.

Right on so slightly different 'rules' from the Army Dress Blues. It is not "Unbuttoned while sitting, fully buttoned while standing"?

If you have an SO/ girlfriend/ Lady friend well versed with how you should look, bring her along.

Get it fitted. Doesn't matter where you get it from, get it fitted.

Wife had me try on suits for sale at H&M. Order online for discount. Fitted at tailor shop or if it already fits when trying in store, no need to.

Makes you look much sharper.

Yah, definitely. Probably just going to hop on over to Nordstrom Rack, bring my wife along not because she can help but just because she likes shopping and I like when she calls me cute.

Edit: She also probably knows more about business wear than me (Used to be a saleswoman before we were married).

 

[Weirdy]

It's not fashion, though...business professional.

Of course. Mentioned that because I was completely clueless regarding even the most basic principles of dressing clean cut professional.

Until wife came along.

 

[deleted972488]

Remember not to button the bottom jacket button.

If there are 3 buttons (from top to bottom): always, sometimes, never.

For two buttons: always, never

 

[907914]

If there are 3 buttons (from top to bottom): always, sometimes, never.

For two buttons: always, never

"Always" even when seated?

 

[deleted972488]

"Always" even when seated?

I’m actually not sure. That advice is just what I remembered from high school speech and debate tournaments, for which I was generally standing.

 

[gyngyn]

Right on so slightly different 'rules' from the Army Dress Blues. It is not "Unbuttoned while sitting, fully buttoned while standing"?

You haven't heard the always, never rule?

 

[907914]

You haven't heard the always, never rule?

Nope. Never. Only fancy wears I have ever had were Prom tux and military dress uniform. Have literally never worn a suit. Only ever wear button ups/ties for military formal events and job interviews....So not in like 2 years.

 

[deleted804295]

Just spent all day editing my secondary photo

Idk how people do this with every picture... it really took a hit on my self esteem comparing the photo that I was in love with earlier to the same one edited with software.

 

[gyngyn]

Just spent all day editing my secondary photo

Idk how people do this with every picture... it really took a hit on my self esteem comparing the photo that I was in love with earlier to the same one edited with software.

Overtly edited is not recommended. This is often done by international applicants, sadly, and I cannot stress how artificial it makes one seem.

 

[deleted804295]

Overtly edited is not recommended. This is often done by international applicants, sadly, and I cannot stress how artificial it makes you seem.

Thanks! I'll try editing my eyes to look more human.

 

[907914]

Just spent all day editing my secondary photo

Idk how people do this with every picture... it really took a hit on my self esteem comparing the photo that I was in love with earlier to the same one edited with software.

Overtly edited is not recommended. This is often done by international applicants, sadly, and I cannot stress how artificial it makes you seem.

I would assume we shouldn't edit our pictures? Like, ADCOMs want to see us as we are, freckles, pimples, and all?

 

[gyngyn]

I would assume we shouldn't edit our pictures? Like, ADCOMs want to see us as we are, freckles, pimples, and all?

It's the plastic skin and perfectly white teeth that are the dead give-away.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Just spent all day editing my secondary photo

Idk how people do this with every picture... it really took a hit on my self esteem comparing the photo that I was in love with earlier to the same one edited with software.

You could start a business editing med school application photos ...

 

[907914]

You could start a business editing med school application photos ...

"A recent paper published by Duke Health suggests that, if you want the best chances at the best career path, you need to look like the best of the best. Here at 'Ugly to MD' we turn you from drab to fab. When we're done, the only 'second look' you'll need to worry about is all of the reviewers pouring over your head shots. You write your essays, leave the beautification to us."

 

[MyOdyssey]

"A recent paper published by Duke Health suggests that, if you want the best chances at the best career path, you need to look like the best of the best. Here at 'Ugly to MD' we turn you from drab to fab. When we're done, the only 'second look' you'll need to worry about is all of the reviewers pouring over your head shots. You write your essays, leave the beautification to us."

Sunbodi can then use his/her own before/after photos to illustrate the quality of work clients can expect to receive.

 

[907914]

Sunbodi can then use his/her own before/after photos to illustrate the quality of work clients can expect to receive.

My cousin actually did this as a makeup-person on Buzzfeeds youtube channel. She has REALLY bad acne and lots of permanent scarring/blemishes. Give her 15 minutes, her kit, and a mirror and it is day and night. It is kinda awesome, actually.

 

[deleted983872]

So what's a female cyclist supposed to do? Will adcom see them thunder thighs and think she's obese? If so, I've gotta stop this madness

 

[gyngyn]

So what's a female cyclist supposed to do? Will adcom see them thunder thighs and think she's obese? If so, I've gotta stop this madness

There is no place for thighs (of any size) in an application photo!

 

[deleted983872]

There is no place for thighs (of any size) in an application photo!

Darn, I really thought my quads were more photogenic than my face. What about in person?

 

[gyngyn]

Darn, I really thought my quads were more photogenic than my face. What about in person?

No one should be looking at your thighs.

 

[907914]

Darn, I really thought my quads were more photogenic than my face. What about in person?

Just send a picture of your quads as your head shot. With luck, you will have an Orthopod on your review committee and he/she will just skip the interview and go straight for writing your Ortho residency LOR. Git'gains.

 

[gyngyn]

Just send a picture of your quads as your head shot. With luck, you will have an Orthopod on your review committee and he/she will just skip the interview and go straight for writing your Ortho residency LOR. Git'gains.

The number of admissions members in this department is historically quite low...
Much more likely to get peds or EM. PhD's also tend to have flexible hours...

 

[907914]

Much more likely to get peds or EM.

As far as admission committee composition goes, is it predominantly physicians, physicians and students, or some physicians, some students, mostly separate non-medically relevant admissions members?

I have been writing my secondaries predominantly with "non-medically relevant admissions members" in mind and have characterized my standard audience as "Janet from Des Moines, Iowa." She is a fiscally conservative but mildly socially liberal Lutheran. She is an avid NPR aficionado and spends most of her time chit-chatting about the problems of the modern day without taking much action. She has worked in Medical School admissions for the last 5 years and was a medical biller and part-time writer for the previous 10. She doesn't interact much with the medical side of things, but she loves her students.

Is that a good standardized audience to write my secondaries for?

 

[gyngyn]

As far as admission committee composition goes, is it predominantly physicians, physicians and students, or some physicians, some students, mostly separate non-medically relevant admissions members?

I have been writing my secondaries predominantly with "non-medically relevant admissions members" in mind and have characterized my standard audience as "Janet from Des Moines, Iowa." She is a fiscally conservative but mildly socially liberal Lutheran. She is an avid NPR aficionado and spends most of her time chit-chatting about the problems of the modern day without taking much action. She has worked in Medical School admissions for the last 5 years and was a medical biller and part-time writer for the previous 10. She doesn't interact much with the medical side of things, but she loves her students.

Is that a good standardized audience to write my secondaries for?

By far, most members are incredibly medically relevant.

 

[907914]

By far, most members are incredibly medically relevant.

I guess I meant non-physician persons.

That came off wrong.


Are there not separate admin people as the ADCOMs? Or at least initial reviewers?