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But I remember before I got started there was a pittance of information I could easily find, so hopefully it helps someone.

Good sir/madam, your checklist is bloody awesome and definitely helpful. So much so that I'm coping it into my google drive to reference in a few years when I hopefully get to the PP point. The continued dialogue with others who have experience in the space even more so. Thank you so much for your taking the significant amount of time to do what you do!

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I just briefly looked at the traveling mailbox website. If it doesn't offer a BAA, then probably won't work. Do you really want some one at that entity opening up patient information letters? Perhaps early on before getting a physical location it might work, but hard to see viable for long haul.
 
I just briefly looked at the traveling mailbox website. If it doesn't offer a BAA, then probably won't work. Do you really want some one at that entity opening up patient information letters? Perhaps early on before getting a physical location it might work, but hard to see viable for long haul.

Ah yeah you're right. Don't they have a service where they take a picture of the front of the envelope and then email it to you before they open it? I wonder if they could forward letters and that would be a good service as a middle person to protect your home address.
 
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YEAR TWO, Q2​
SUBJECTIVE:
In the midst of Covid-19 and reflecting on the impact as of early April, I lamented on the office lease price. Such a futile exercise. THE BOSS reminded me once again that it was the right choice at that time and with original plans to pursue ECT, nothing would have been different. Reassurance was nice.

First wave of GT modifier with 02 point of service (POS) codes coming back. So far so good, but my main payer for above medicare rates were ~74% of their usual. That stirred up a strong emotional reaction, could my practice survive with this hit? Took a pause, eventually called the insurance, they said they hadn’t got their act together yet and to resubmit the codes with POS 11 and GT modifier. Frustrating there will be a pay delay, but at least its back to full rate. The state I’m in passed a law for parity for telemedicine services. But I guess it only enforces some insurance, but not others, so unclear if telemedicine is viable. I hope to continue Telepsych service line post Covid, but if it means reduction in service contracted rates, can I really do this? This then has downstream effects on if I opt in for the paid service of Doxy.me and even further invest in more quality tech or even increased bandwidth from the telecom company. Have had a few encounters fail with tech that prompted them as phone encounters. So this spurred the use of 99441-3 codes. These telephone encounters are abysmal for pay, almost not even worth submitting the claim.

One of my lower-than-medicare insurance companies doesn’t reimburse for 99406 smoking cessation. Just wow, insert long winded clinical, epidemiological, social, etc soap box [here].

Kept myself involved with 1-2 medical schools over the years. Little bit of a pause for past year due to low clinical volume that just isn’t worth a student’s time. One of them recently reached out to offer a small quick teaching stint for a few days (their students are off service and potentially doing nothing?) that normally wouldn’t be worth a Psychiatrist’s time purely on financial remuneration, but considering my current schedule gaps it actually worked out and will be a Win-Win. However, this is also a state school, so it will be months before I get this paycheck.

Needing to spend more time chasing down PHQ-9, GAD-7 questionnaires with patients to further facilitate billing for 96127. Back when seeing patients in the office, easier to just hand a clip board with these on it.

Slowdown in new consults has cast an element of unease. My website Google analytics reflects a marked down turn in traffic with Covid-19, too. I have been negatively impacted from Covid-19 for sure. Applied for the EIDL and PPP loans to the truest bare minimum sense for my employee, and in part because I don’t trust the government. Wouldn’t be surprised if I get stuck with an actual unforgiven loan. With EIDL and PPP, I’m looking to reduce overhead before employee hours.

Part of my goals to not reduce employee hours, are reviewing overhead and cutting. Currently paying $20/month for 500 pages with fax service. Going to change to another service, SRFax which will be $9-10/month for 500 pages. And the key to this process, is they will port over my existing fax number from that online service to theirs so thankfully no need to change my number – took several weeks, but they did it! This fax even allows a cover sheet to have your logo, pretty cool. The bigger overhead reduction is the 3rd party billing service which is $500-700/month, depending on monthly billings lately, and will transition to the integrated Luminello feature with ApexEDI which is $65/month for my current number of fixed claims submitted. Even at full projection, their tiered rates would be at most $134/month for me. The billing company was trying to do everything they could to keep me as a client, and practically offering free services. But the seamless integration of Luminello, they just can’t compete.

Personal finances just took a massive hit on home front, things are now much tighter, and Covid-19 is truly far reaching. I will now be needing health insurance, and will purchase directly from the insurance company. I did briefly explore the state exchange. Great to get some tax deductions from this. Great to be able to choose a better insurance company. Having now worked with almost all the flavors in the area, I know I’ll be getting a good one, and I’ll be looking to rock the tax benefits of the high deductible plan with the HSA. I really like HSAs.

So far, the transition to ApexEDI (the integrated clearing house with Luminello) has been fair to good process. One question and hiccup with using the ApexEDI system is Box 6, of the CMS 1500 form. If the patient is the insured, but a spouse or dependent you check ‘spouse’ or ‘dependent.’ That then prompts the need for the whole address of the primary insured person and their date of birth. This isn’t always available. So, I’m sampling some without this, and seeing if insurance will process anyways. A few of these sample claims have come back just fine. I’m not going to sweat that anymore, the little things you learn along the way. Receptionist loves their customer service regarding complexities of submitting to secondaries or atypical denials. It’s been a bit of slow roll out to get the ERA statements to show up in ApexEDI and in turn be automatically uploaded into Luminello. You have to fill out a bunch of applications for the different insurance companies which is called ERA/EFT enrollment. Since I’m wide paneled and doing this all at once it was quite the admin time suck for a while there. But now that some of them are coming thru and connecting. I LOVE IT. Say it again, I LOVE IT. The seamless nature of these claims submission and insurance processing is so easy. It’s like the practice set ups a few other posters on SDN have, and I wish I did it earlier. This is also going to drastically reduce the work load for my assistant.

Finally emailed the BlueFin folks connected with Luminello who do the credit card processing (nod to SDN poster here, thank you for the tip). They got back to me and were like, “nope.” Credit card processing fees are unchanged. The convenience factor of integrated billing is too nice and I’m not going to change that workflow to save $5-30/month.

A Sleep Medicine doc I know got laid off by the person’s Big Box Shop job due to Covid-19 stuff. Sad really, considering they could have done part time, or furlough, or a whole bunch of other things first. The person suspects they will be replaced by an ARNP once the pandemic eases up more. The remaining doc at that location is now getting slammed – but if you haven’t paid attention to SDN posts – Big Box Shops don’t care. As a result, this doc is going to be subleasing from me which will raise income. Interestingly, sublease income is income, and not a reduction in my lease overhead, which took me a bit to process, a minor pain, when thinking about tax optimization and where to place it in QuickBooks accounting. I’m also guiding this person some on how to start up a practice, and so far, the trajectory is so much faster and cleaner than mine. Took some time, but finally got a contract for sublease approved by everyone. Entry in August, free for August, collecting rent in September. Month-to-month contract. Person isn’t planning on doing a sleep lab at this time but only HST and get their footings in the community before further expansion. Also, nice to be able to cross refer, too. WIN – WIN.

Psychology Today has been a much better advertisement service than Google. Cost neutral to cheaper change with Psychology Today. Deferred on doing a small local newspaper online add. Trying to line up some lunchtime meetings with local independent PCPs, and going to cater them lunch. Will tag team this with the Sleep Medicine doc and sort of do a ‘twofer’ to reduce costs. MISTAKE: doing Google ads before Psychology today.

Sleep doc has been looking into a lot of EMRs. Fascinating to hear about their billing, features, and rates for their services and some are eye popping expensive, like 7% of total collections! Makes me appreciate Luminello more despite not having all the extra bells and whistles. Tried to keep an open mind for possibly switching myself, but with the ApexEDI and Invoice Tracker (see below), I’ll be sticking with Luminello. For a sleep medicine clinic some of these expanded services make more sense. Of which some supposedly have interoperability with the beast known as Epic. Which got me searching, and supposedly there is a way to get a remote access link as small entity like myself, so I have been reaching out to the local Epic Big Box shops the Epic person put me in touch with to see about actually getting this access. Would be nice to skip the record acquisition by fax and weeks delays, and simply be able to just log in and review. See how this unfolds – update this next quarter.

Did get the EIDL and PPP for about ~6.3K in total. A blessing really, considering my personal finances just went to Scat, and will also need to buy my own health/dental insurance for family to tune of ~20K/year. So, this money originally meant to stave off cutting hours for assistant, now has a greater value to it, and I’m counting down the days before I have to pick up a side gig. So, so want to avoid this. I loathe the thought of Big Box Shops tickling my NPI number again. The “never again” mantra will be tested…

Covid-19 patient impacts have been trickling in, too. Two patients dropped out due to job loss and getting Medicaid insurance. A few others have been losing jobs, but being buffered by their spouses. A few patient balances are starting to climb, too.

Out of the blue, Luminello goes and does another update. This time an ‘invoice tracker’ feature has so simplified billing even more and really made bill analysis for patients so much easier. I and my assistant can’t stop talking about this – and we are both telecommuting. That’s how great this addition is with the internal claim submission/clearing house with ApexEDI. I’m now playing devil’s advocate to the Sleep Doc and trying to convince this person to use Luminello. These billing changes with ApexEDI integration and now Invoice Tracker feature, nervously/joking have assistant pointing out her duties will be so reduced she is questioning why she’s needed and even willing to consider hours reduction. Reminded her the phones are primary (during non-Covid time) and that there will always be billing tasks and other things that pop up where she is needed. Sleep Doc finally selected Charmhealth.com for the EMR.

Discovered a new ARNP in community, and another new one who replaced one who retired. Also discovered a psychiatrist in the Metro area, just outside my draw area, hired an ARNP. This doc opened their practice +/- the same time I did, but was definitely doing other side gigs this whole time. MISTAKE: as others pointed out, side gigs can be solid means to keep the income flowing, and also siphon patients to your practice – I have chosen not to.

Big Box Shop radiation is improving with natural decay. I used to encourage people from Orange Box or Blue Box to seek their specialist care from the same color box. Now as an independent and ruminating on the greater forces of the health care system, I am instead referring when available to other independent practices. The enculturation I (we?) endured with our training and even working at a Big Box, it closes your mind that it’s THE WAY. Feels so good to not drink that kool-aid anymore. One Big Box shop has 0 mental health and yet, I don’t get any referrals from them. They sent me a handful of their most complex patients who were Medicare back when I was still open to Medicare, but now, I get none. There is one doctor at another Big Box shop who routinely sends patients to me, as their several Psychiatrists are all full – in part because I took the time to meet that person face to face. But not a single one of the numerous other PCPs there do… In summary, my PCP lacking patients, I now point only to the small independent practices. Sleep medicine only to independent practices. I wish we had a private Cardiology group in the area to do the same. Big Box Shops keep track of their “external” referrals with Epic EMR, well, I’m keeping track of my non-independent referrals.

Discovered that a big payer just ended their acceptance of GT modifier. So with medicare already wanting 95 modifier for telemedicine and my low level sleuthing that most insurance will accept 95 or GT, I’m going to simply switch over to 100% 95 modifier. Sort of like Ford vs Chevy, doesn’t really matter, but I was personally rooting for GT.

In grand summary, due to Covid-19, I did not expect any positives. But there was PPP/EIDL, tiny patient growth, tiny payer mix improvement, and I was able to pay myself something. Life is good.

OBJECTIVE:
Total Active Patients:102
Insurance Payer Mix:34 < Medicare7 Medicare61 > Medicare (59.8%)
Follow Ups:16913.0 (weekly mean)range of 8-22 per week
Consults:241.8 (weekly mean)range of 0-5 per week
Weekly Clinical Hours:8.3 (quarterly mean)
Blended Payer Mix:$139.77 per follow up<----Secret sauce formula
Overhead Percentage:57.0%
Days Off:2.5

Apr-20
May-20
Jun-20
TOTAL

GROSS PROFIT
$9,278.38​
$17,241.64​
$12,588.97​
$39,108.99​
Expenses

Advertising & Marketing
123.52​
88.95​
88.95​
$301.42​
Credit Card Processing Fees
129.15​
93.52​
135.24​
$357.91​
Liability Insurance
0​
2,487.00​
0​
$2,487.00​
Medical Billing Services
495​
610.42​
560​
$1,665.42​
Medical Society Membership Dues
0​
0​
205​
$205.00​
Office Supplies & Software
72.94​
481.06​
601.97​
$1,155.97​
Payroll Expenses
1,524.78​
1,414.15​
1,380.48​
$4,319.41​
Payroll Taxes
0​
0​
866.82​
$866.82​
Rent & Lease
3,301.42​
3,301.42​
3,301.42​
$9,904.26​
Taxes & Licenses
0​
0​
60​
$60.00​
Utilities
129.83​
129.61​
129.67​
$389.11​
State Tax
0​
0​
586.63​
$586.63​

Total Expenses
$5,776.64​
$8,606.13​
$7,916.18​
$22,298.95​
NET INCOME
$3,501.74​
$8,635.51​
$4,672.79​
$16,810.04

ASSESSMENT:
1) Professional Dissatisfaction
2) Slow practice growth rate
3) Optimization Deficiency
4) Infrastructure Deficits
5) Retirement Exposure

PLAN:
1) In Remission, continue this private practice. Never again policy, may face the reality of life circumstances and a side gig of some sort may be necessary. I am now more in line with the other independents and point my patients to PCPs and specialists who aren’t Big Box Shop affiliated.
2) Growth rate has just taken a beat down from Covid-19. Overall a cost neutral change by opting for Psychology Today over Google Ads. So far appears to have better traction. Next level marketing is going to be doing lunches with Independent/private PCPs in tandem with Sleep Doc in Q3.
3) Not yet time to drop Medicare, nor lower payor insurance until about 20 clinical hours per week achieved. Successfully transitioned billing away from a 3rd party entity and entirely with the Luminello integration – money and time saver. So efficient. Next quarter overhead will start to reflect this ~$440/month savings. Successfully transitioned to a cheaper better fax service. In process of finalizing a sublease with Sleep Doc. Failed at reducing credit card processing fees.
4) Still debating on buying a blood pressure cuff, defer until after Covid. Next quarter the topic of land/construction loan for an office will be more real. I have until the end of Q4 to make this happen, as such a project will take year to complete, and coincide with lease end. Lease or build? Considering porting phone numbers over to Google Voice with G-Suite.
5) Very low risk of conversion to retirement at this time. Will continue to treat with high dose of bills for suppression, and monitor with these quarterly assessments. Covid-19 hasn’t helped. Pay for this quarter will be ~$16.8K, and 20% of that will be put aside for SEP-IRA contribution, and then 20% of that 0.8 put aside for taxes, leaving ~$10.8K to pay personal bills.
 
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Thank you again for the updates. Very insightful. I know you have found much success in Luminello. Just curious if you ever looked into Dr. Chrono? Thanks!
 
I am sorry if I am being rude, but I am a psychiatrist in Brazil and I`m moving to america, taking the STEPS and all that. I have to admit that I wanted to earn more here than in Brazil, but are your data what I am to expect? Only 4k a month after all expenses?
 
I am sorry if I am being rude, but I am a psychiatrist in Brazil and I`m moving to america, taking the STEPS and all that. I have to admit that I wanted to earn more here than in Brazil, but are your data what I am to expect? Only 4k a month after all expenses?
Nope. My story is meant to be a bench mark of how to do better. So many variables. Cash? Insurance based? Insurance rates in a location? Level of Mid-levels in an area? Quality of marketing and networking you do? What is your intake process for patients? I try to point out the negatives of how I'm doing things. For instance, one doc in my metro, started same time I did, is doing well enough and has already hired a mid-level to start this month. I'm sure you will astutely make the right decisions for you that could lead to a faster rate of growth and vicariously income potential.

I'm coming from an area of disdain with prior practice environments and seeking to optimize my clinical satisfaction - otherwise I might just say I'm done and spend my time farming/ranching.

The end destination to this saga is greater clinical satisfaction than I have had before, and greater income per time worked than I had before. Whether I opt to hit the gas peddle for a personal record high salary, or simply enjoy a greater work life balance is yet to be determined. But ultimately opening your own practice is unlikely to be surpassed in any metric by any other job. Stay the course.
 
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Perhaps a small detail, but I really appreciate your willingness to work with the local med students - it's hard to find an outpatient, private practice doc to work with, but I think it can be a valuable experience. Best of luck moving forward!
 
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Nope. My story is meant to be a bench mark of how to do better. So many variables. Cash? Insurance based? Insurance rates in a location? Level of Mid-levels in an area? Quality of marketing and networking you do? What is your intake process for patients? I try to point out the negatives of how I'm doing things. For instance, one doc in my metro, started same time I did, is doing well enough and has already hired a mid-level to start this month. I'm sure you will astutely make the right decisions for you that could lead to a faster rate of growth and vicariously income potential.

I'm coming from an area of disdain with prior practice environments and seeking to optimize my clinical satisfaction - otherwise I might just say I'm done and spend my time farming/ranching.

The end destination to this saga is greater clinical satisfaction than I have had before, and greater income per time worked than I had before. Whether I opt to hit the gas peddle for a personal record high salary, or simply enjoy a greater work life balance is yet to be determined. But ultimately opening your own practice is unlikely to be surpassed in any metric by any other job. Stay the course.

That makes perfectly sense and I completely understand you. Thank you for the topic, it is very helpful. Also I didnt want to imply you are doing bad, but that is around what I could be making in Brazil, in the future years. So your beggining would be like my good future. I`m happy to know that, lol
 
I feel like referrals from primary care are your big problem here but I have to go back and read the whole thing over again. It'd be different if you were cash only but you take multiple insurances including Medicare for over a year now...you should be having to turn away patients. I feel like patients in your area just don't know you're there. Do all the family med/primary care internal med docs in your area know you exist? Lunches might not be necessary, just dropping off a few copies of your information to have at their desks and highlighting the insurances you take in bold letters might be all you need.
 
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I feel like referrals from primary care are your big problem here but I have to go back and read the whole thing over again. It'd be different if you were cash only but you take multiple insurances including Medicare for over a year now...you should be having to turn away patients. I feel like patients in your area just don't know you're there. Do all the family med/primary care internal med docs in your area know you exist? Lunches might not be necessary, just dropping off a few copies of your information to have at their desks and highlighting the insurances you take in bold letters might be all you need.
At this point, I can't pass up the opportunity to go in tandem with an overlapping specialist like Sleep Medicine to the primary care offices. We'll be splitting the costs for this market spree. Of the independent PCP groups, so far only 30-40% will be meeting with us. Another 30% I've made contact with but are unlikely to follow up. The other 30% I'm waiting to reach out to so as to space things out. This ultimately is my next wave of advertising / networking.

The cash only practice has always been a head scratcher. Some posters on SDN allude to it being its own market, and same rate of growth I'm currently having. When my mind wanders toward it being the greener grass I should have grazed in, I have an N of 1 to reflect on. I recently discovered one cash Psychiatrist whose been at it in my area for several years (even before I opened) had their NPI number reflected at the free standing psych hospital I dropped quickly in the very first post of this thread. That place has a high rate of turnover - for all levels of employment. My top conclusion was that cash private practice wasn't going so swell for this person, and I believe the person also does some C/L work at a local hospital. Some of the local gossip reflects this Psychiatrist is not one to tolerate BS admin, and to set foot in that hospital likely means finances got tight.

A few of the older, closer to retirement cash doctors (plus 0-2 insurance companies) have been around 20-30+ years and they've been doing just fine.

Overall, I'm still optimistic and putting things in perspective that I'm still close to the inflection point of meeting overhead and profit. Covid-19 has slowed some things down, but I'm on a positive path. I feel proud of my 100+ patient panel, and anticipate I'll probably close out at 300, so I'm 1/3 there.
 
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Since mid/late April I've had 58 calls, 89 website visits (or more as I got rid of the website reference in description so as to better count from routes from Psychtoday), 521 full profile views, as of today.

I do have a website.
 
Since mid/late April I've had 58 calls, 89 website visits (or more), 521 full profile views.

I do have a website.

This seems lower than what I would expect. Is your area very population sparse? You list in PsychologyToday that you take insurance, right? Why is the demand so low? I would expect you get one call per day.

If you take insurance perhaps more effective to market directly to PMDs--I guess you are thinking about this. Still strange.

How many of the 58 calls were you able to convert into intakes? In theory, since they only have a co-pay, they should be > 50%. So you should have 10 new patients per month. Is this about right? Also, can you offer psychotherapy? That would immediately fill your hours. Given you are in network, this seems like something a lot of people would want.
 
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I do take insurance, 7-10, without actually doing a precise count. I'm on the edge of a big metro, more suburbs, with parts trending rural. I have 3 PCP meetings scheduled already in Q3, and looking to add a few more.

Being close to ARNP factory probably doesn't help, and as such a steady supply opening up their own shop. I got ARNPs in my area running TMS, or ADHD specific clinics, etc

Not precise, but about 24 consults during this window, so about 2 per week. Only a fraction referenced PsychologyToday. Some were google, some were insurance website, some were word of mouth, some were PCP referral. Realistically only a fraction of those calls led to consults. Oddly, a chunk of the calls were spam/pocket dials.

I could offer therapy, but my orientation is more heavy towards ECT/Neurostimulation than therapy. I enjoy doing hypnotherapy, but only selectively take on a small, small number for this. And with Covid telemedicine, not doing hypnotherapy. But you are absolutely right, if I were doing therapy I'd have a higher clinical hour volume per week with the current patient panel. I also only bill 90833 10-25% of the time and not 100% as I've seen others do, which is also suppressing income. Personally I'd rather be 'the med check' doctor than therapist-psychiatrist who also prescribes here and there. If I were more inclined toward therapy, I would strongly have considered a cash only practice - as the needed patient panel is about 100.

Pre-covid I was doing about 3.7 consults per week, stats above you can see for Q2 it was 1.8. However, I have a sense that my conversion from consult to follow up patient is higher for 2020, then it was in 2019, but we'll see how that shakes down when I crunch the numbers at the end of the year.
 
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I could offer therapy, but my orientation is more heavy towards ECT/Neurostimulation than therapy.

Right. I think rather than starting a locum job somewhere else, I would instead go down the tried and true path of offering high quality combined treatment. Esp. if you take insurance I'd imagine you'd fill your hours quickly. That's my only suggestion. On second look, I think perhaps the overall recruitment number is not that low and you are just pushing away business in front of you.
 
Sushirolls, apologies if you mentioned this already. Are you an LLC or corporation? And can you explain you choice?
 
(P)LLC with a schedule C addendum to taxes. Basically considered a sole proprietor for tax purposes. Discussed the nuances with an accountant for tax structure. Lawyer stated I will be (P)LLC. Some states have PLLC for professionals, some don't. Lawyer will tell you which you need to be.

In future will discuss with account transition to C or S corporation structure. Might consider this for 2021. Hard to do when you don't have history of what revenue looks like and what you can declare as your salary.
 
I do take insurance, 7-10, without actually doing a precise count. I'm on the edge of a big metro, more suburbs, with parts trending rural. I have 3 PCP meetings scheduled already in Q3, and looking to add a few more.

Being close to ARNP factory probably doesn't help, and as such a steady supply opening up their own shop. I got ARNPs in my area running TMS, or ADHD specific clinics, etc

Not precise, but about 24 consults during this window, so about 2 per week. Only a fraction referenced PsychologyToday. Some were google, some were insurance website, some were word of mouth, some were PCP referral. Realistically only a fraction of those calls led to consults. Oddly, a chunk of the calls were spam/pocket dials.

I could offer therapy, but my orientation is more heavy towards ECT/Neurostimulation than therapy. I enjoy doing hypnotherapy, but only selectively take on a small, small number for this. And with Covid telemedicine, not doing hypnotherapy. But you are absolutely right, if I were doing therapy I'd have a higher clinical hour volume per week with the current patient panel. I also only bill 90833 10-25% of the time and not 100% as I've seen others do, which is also suppressing income. Personally I'd rather be 'the med check' doctor than therapist-psychiatrist who also prescribes here and there. If I were more inclined toward therapy, I would strongly have considered a cash only practice - as the needed patient panel is about 100.

Pre-covid I was doing about 3.7 consults per week, stats above you can see for Q2 it was 1.8. However, I have a sense that my conversion from consult to follow up patient is higher for 2020, then it was in 2019, but we'll see how that shakes down when I crunch the numbers at the end of the year.

Not billing the 90833 is definitely driving down your per hour income. If you have half hour follow ups, you should be billing that at least >50% of the time. I’m sure you’re doing something you could call therapy for 16 minutes during that time (unless of course you just morally object to this). That’s just money left on the table.
 
YEAR TWO, Q3:​
SUBJECTIVE:
The ERA/EFT enrollments for ApexEDI are now complete. Still love it. Billing is so straightforward now. Little hiccups here in there are mostly data entry errors or not entering edits in the ‘right’ way for these CMS 1500 forms. Thankfully ApexEDI has fantastic customer service, and informative how to guides that my assistant and I are very pleased with.

Got a phone call from a DPC Doc, and Doc wasn’t aware I was in town. I had actually more than a year ago stopped by his office, spoke with a bunch of the staff and even left business cards. Reinforces the value of needing to see people face-to-face, which I hadn’t done. Able to meet with one group of 6-8 providers with Sleep Doc. Seemed to have went well – even got a referral later that same day! Spent ~$300 on quality food to feed everyone, and came out to ~$150 for myself. Meeting two was canceled due to regression of their Covid policy and no outside people coming in. Another practice is waiting for Covid to allow “reps” like us in. Met with one group, and have 3-4 shared patients, they hadn’t heard of me, one person recognized my card like “yeah, I’ve seen these before” which I mailed out more than a year ago. MISTAKE: Ultimately, this further reinforced the value of meeting PCPs face-to-face, which I should have done one year ago.

I’m jealous of the logo Sleep Doc created. Not a priority now, but in future years, will reinvest to improve my logo.

Called up one construction firm and their rough estimate was $350 sq/ft and possibly $400, but unlikely $300 sq/ft, and this is in addition to the land price. That’s a painful number to process. Looking at purchasing buildings, or even small houses that are zoned commercial. Found a better construction company that has more realistic prices like $200-322 per sq foot, with better materials more expensive, and cheaper per square foot the bigger the building gets. Personal finances on home front last quarter impacted SBA loans from being willing to do an owner-occupied new construction. Need more income. They are willing to loan X amount of dollars for building purchase, but it’s a bit lower than what many of the local buildings are selling for. And, the small lots of land, and small buildings are getting scooped up off the market in 1-2 weeks here, HOT. Larger commercial properties and rentals and sludging from Covid.

Previously had made the mistake of integrating my profile on Google with my business. After getting a bad review on a random doc rating site, I realized the value of having separate listings for business and myself. If I were to ever hire someone in the future, I’d rather their reviews go to them and not the business, or if I were to ever sell the practice, I’d rather that separation, too. So, took me a while to realize how to email Google to make this happen, but finally got them separated. I believe this also a positive because it doubles the search parameters to now locate my office. The bad review just highlights the nuances of why Psychiatry and medicine as a whole is not a service industry – it is a profession. Atypical presentation for Dx PQRS with likely contraindication MNOP does not mean you automatically get controlled substance ZYX – but it does mean I get a bad review online.

As others pointed out in previous posts, my practice could be closer to full, if not full, were I doing 1 hour therapy + med checks, only takes about 100 patients or even less to achieve that goal by my estimate. Just not my thing, and med check +/- supportive therapy pays better in the long term. So, that and my personal predilection for practice style, I’ll be staying the course. But the critiques of others about my low 90833 therapy add on codes are valid. I have been more active in doing and documenting this, but ultimately still won’t be 100% of the practice as I’ve witnessed in poor records from outside ARNPs /Psychiatrists. I had been about 20%, but could possibly get as high as 40% of follow ups, we’ll see, but definitely room for improvement here.

So, my assistant is spearheading the submission of secondary claims for a medicare pt. Going way back several months, because we wanted to learn and figure out how to do these secondary claim submissions, and suspected the previous billing company simply dropped the ball – and they did. She followed the instructions provided by the ApexEDI folks but got them rejected, numerous calls and weeks later finally discovered that after the primary medicare insurance resolves, then we could submit the secondary after 30 more days lapsed… If less than 30 days, REJECTED upon submission. The random things you learn. So sure enough, we are actually getting paid on all these, $20 here and $20 there. Frustrating to have spent that much time with inept billing company before. MISTAKE: avoid outside billing companies. Do your own internal billing with your own integrated clearinghouse.

Ported one phone number over to Gsuite google voice. So far so good. Will look into porting over the main practice number at some point. Even the phone tree feature it has looks interesting, too. I know some other posters are using this feature.

OBJECTIVE:
Total Patients:116
Insurance Payor Mix:41 < Medicare6 Medicare69 > Medicare (60.0%)
Follow Ups:17813.7 (weekly mean)range of 8-21 per week
Consults:403.1 (weekly mean)range of 1-6 per week
Weekly Clinical Hours:9.9 (quarterly mean)
Blended Payer Mix:$143.17 per follow up<--Secret sauce formula
Overhead Percentage:46.7%
Days Off:5.5

JulAugSepTotal
GROSS PROFIT$13,364.75$14,494.65$14,862.74$42,722.14
EXPENSES
Advertising & Marketing88.9588.9588.95$266.85
Continuing Medical Education01,408.120$1,408.12
Credit Card Processing Fees120.64129.6688.92$339.22
Legal & Professional Services60000$600.00
Medical Billing Services656565$195.00
Office Supplies & Software25.85105.39164.91$296.15
Payroll Expenses1,548.831,327.571,438.20$4,314.60
Payroll Taxes00865.88$865.88
Promotional Meals0154.47109.14$263.61
Rent & Lease3,301.423,301.423,301.42$9,904.26
Utilities129.67131.01133.93$394.61
Medical License0443.50$443.50
State Tax640.83$640.83
Total Expenses$5,880.36$7,155.09$6,897.18$19,932.63
NET INCOME$7,484.39$7,339.56$7,965.56$22,789.51

ASSESSMENT:
1) Professional Dissatisfaction
2) Slow practice growth rate
3) Optimization Deficiency
4) Infrastructure Deficits
5) Retirement Exposure

PLAN:
1) In Remission, continue this private practice. Still holding ground on the Never Again policy toward Big Box shops. Sleep Doc also has drank the Koolaid and expressed no desire to ever return back to Big Box shop employment.
2) Some meet and greets with PCPs under way, positive experiences, continue to line these up. Crawling out of Covid slow down, but consult numbers still not yet back to pre-covid levels.
3) Not yet time to drop Medicare, nor lower payor insurance until about 20 clinical hours per week achieved. Sleep Doc is subleasing and helping with overhead costs now.
4) Still need to answer the question of office purchase, or land acquisition. Land dream lives, but that’s a story for another day.
5) Very low risk of conversion to retirement at this time. Will continue to treat with high dose of bills for suppression, and monitor with these quarterly assessments. Covid-19 crash didn’t help. Pay for this quarter will be ~$22K, and 20% of that will be put aside for SEP-IRA contribution, and then 20% of that 0.8 put aside for taxes, leaving ~$14.5K to pay personal bills.
 
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Possibly. Different permutations have been discussed and home drawn floor plans with different set ups. I have more flexibility with geographic location, but Sleep Doc is more tied to the ideal spots because the market is saturated for both the Big Box & independent scene. The more 'ideal' locations come with price premium, and I'd say our local market is starting to edge into higher price points where only larger businesses can afford the fresh construction.
 
YEAR TWO, Q3:​
SUBJECTIVE:
The ERA/EFT enrollments for ApexEDI are now complete. Still love it. Billing is so straightforward now. Little hiccups here in there are mostly data entry errors or not entering edits in the ‘right’ way for these CMS 1500 forms. Thankfully ApexEDI has fantastic customer service, and informative how to guides that my assistant and I are very pleased with.

Got a phone call from a DPC Doc, and Doc wasn’t aware I was in town. I had actually more than a year ago stopped by his office, spoke with a bunch of the staff and even left business cards. Reinforces the value of needing to see people face-to-face, which I hadn’t done. Able to meet with one group of 6-8 providers with Sleep Doc. Seemed to have went well – even got a referral later that same day! Spent ~$300 on quality food to feed everyone, and came out to ~$150 for myself. Meeting two was canceled due to regression of their Covid policy and no outside people coming in. Another practice is waiting for Covid to allow “reps” like us in. Met with one group, and have 3-4 shared patients, they hadn’t heard of me, one person recognized my card like “yeah, I’ve seen these before” which I mailed out more than a year ago. MISTAKE: Ultimately, this further reinforced the value of meeting PCPs face-to-face, which I should have done one year ago.

I’m jealous of the logo Sleep Doc created. Not a priority now, but in future years, will reinvest to improve my logo.

Called up one construction firm and their rough estimate was $350 sq/ft and possibly $400, but unlikely $300 sq/ft, and this is in addition to the land price. That’s a painful number to process. Looking at purchasing buildings, or even small houses that are zoned commercial. Found a better construction company that has more realistic prices like $200-322 per sq foot, with better materials more expensive, and cheaper per square foot the bigger the building gets. Personal finances on home front last quarter impacted SBA loans from being willing to do an owner-occupied new construction. Need more income. They are willing to loan X amount of dollars for building purchase, but it’s a bit lower than what many of the local buildings are selling for. And, the small lots of land, and small buildings are getting scooped up off the market in 1-2 weeks here, HOT. Larger commercial properties and rentals and sludging from Covid.

Previously had made the mistake of integrating my profile on Google with my business. After getting a bad review on a random doc rating site, I realized the value of having separate listings for business and myself. If I were to ever hire someone in the future, I’d rather their reviews go to them and not the business, or if I were to ever sell the practice, I’d rather that separation, too. So, took me a while to realize how to email Google to make this happen, but finally got them separated. I believe this also a positive because it doubles the search parameters to now locate my office. The bad review just highlights the nuances of why Psychiatry and medicine as a whole is not a service industry – it is a profession. Atypical presentation for Dx PQRS with likely contraindication MNOP does not mean you automatically get controlled substance ZYX – but it does mean I get a bad review online.

As others pointed out in previous posts, my practice could be closer to full, if not full, were I doing 1 hour therapy + med checks, only takes about 100 patients or even less to achieve that goal by my estimate. Just not my thing, and med check +/- supportive therapy pays better in the long term. So, that and my personal predilection for practice style, I’ll be staying the course. But the critiques of others about my low 90833 therapy add on codes are valid. I have been more active in doing and documenting this, but ultimately still won’t be 100% of the practice as I’ve witnessed in poor records from outside ARNPs /Psychiatrists. I had been about 20%, but could possibly get as high as 40% of follow ups, we’ll see, but definitely room for improvement here.

So, my assistant is spearheading the submission of secondary claims for a medicare pt. Going way back several months, because we wanted to learn and figure out how to do these secondary claim submissions, and suspected the previous billing company simply dropped the ball – and they did. She followed the instructions provided by the ApexEDI folks but got them rejected, numerous calls and weeks later finally discovered that after the primary medicare insurance resolves, then we could submit the secondary after 30 more days lapsed… If less than 30 days, REJECTED upon submission. The random things you learn. So sure enough, we are actually getting paid on all these, $20 here and $20 there. Frustrating to have spent that much time with inept billing company before. MISTAKE: avoid outside billing companies. Do your own internal billing with your own integrated clearinghouse.

Ported one phone number over to Gsuite google voice. So far so good. Will look into porting over the main practice number at some point. Even the phone tree feature it has looks interesting, too. I know some other posters are using this feature.

OBJECTIVE:
Total Patients:116
Insurance Payor Mix:41 < Medicare6 Medicare69 > Medicare (60.0%)
Follow Ups:17813.7 (weekly mean)range of 8-21 per week
Consults:403.1 (weekly mean)range of 1-6 per week
Weekly Clinical Hours:9.9 (quarterly mean)
Blended Payer Mix:$143.17 per follow up<--Secret sauce formula
Overhead Percentage:46.7%
Days Off:5.5

JulAugSepTotal
GROSS PROFIT$13,364.75$14,494.65$14,862.74$42,722.14
EXPENSES
Advertising & Marketing88.9588.9588.95$266.85
Continuing Medical Education01,408.120$1,408.12
Credit Card Processing Fees120.64129.6688.92$339.22
Legal & Professional Services60000$600.00
Medical Billing Services656565$195.00
Office Supplies & Software25.85105.39164.91$296.15
Payroll Expenses1,548.831,327.571,438.20$4,314.60
Payroll Taxes00865.88$865.88
Promotional Meals0154.47109.14$263.61
Rent & Lease3,301.423,301.423,301.42$9,904.26
Utilities129.67131.01133.93$394.61
Medical License0443.50$443.50
State Tax640.83$640.83
Total Expenses$5,880.36$7,155.09$6,897.18$19,932.63
NET INCOME$7,484.39$7,339.56$7,965.56$22,789.51

ASSESSMENT:
1) Professional Dissatisfaction
2) Slow practice growth rate
3) Optimization Deficiency
4) Infrastructure Deficits
5) Retirement Exposure

PLAN:
1) In Remission, continue this private practice. Still holding ground on the Never Again policy toward Big Box shops. Sleep Doc also has drank the Koolaid and expressed no desire to ever return back to Big Box shop employment.
2) Some meet and greets with PCPs under way, positive experiences, continue to line these up. Crawling out of Covid slow down, but consult numbers still not yet back to pre-covid levels.
3) Not yet time to drop Medicare, nor lower payor insurance until about 20 clinical hours per week achieved. Sleep Doc is subleasing and helping with overhead costs now.
4) Still need to answer the question of office purchase, or land acquisition. Land dream lives, but that’s a story for another day.
5) Very low risk of conversion to retirement at this time. Will continue to treat with high dose of bills for suppression, and monitor with these quarterly assessments. Covid-19 crash didn’t help. Pay for this quarter will be ~$22K, and 20% of that will be put aside for SEP-IRA contribution, and then 20% of that 0.8 put aside for taxes, leaving ~$14.5K to pay personal bills.
I’m late to this thread please can you clarify you are working 10 hours per week to net this?
 
I’m late to this thread please can you clarify you are working 10 hours per week to net this?
I am working ~10 clinical hours per week, yes. However, other admin, or charting, or miscellaneous things pop up and I am essentially working 40 hours. Phone messages, refills, etc. I anticipate the total hours per week worked will be relatively fixed/static, especially as the practice shifts from practice building (more time spent on new consults and new patients) and eventually more time with routine follow ups of established patients.

So if you only used this quarter, ~22K to project for a year, and then accounted for 6 weeks vacation and only 10 hours it would be about $191/hr.
(22K x 4) / 46 weeks /10 hours =$191/hr

But if you account for actual hours worked at 40 hours, it comes out to about $47/hr.
(22K x 4) / 46 weeks / 40 hours =$47/hr true/real time worked

Not working for a Big Box shop, Priceless.

My target is to get to 30 clinical hours per week.

So if my overhead increases from the ~80K to 100K at 30hrs, the Gross could be on par with 450K.
450K / 46 weeks / 30hrs = ~$326 per hour in productivity
450K-100K / 46 weeks / 40hrs = $190/hr for true reimbursement for true/real time worked
*run these numbers at 35 or even 40 clinical hours and things look quite different.
*run these numbers with a different payer mix that increases the rate of pay per time worked, things look quite different.


When I had worked with a Big Box Shop, the hours I spent documenting even after work, etc., etc,, my true pay per hour was at best $140/hr for real time worked.

Hands down, private practice is the winner, when you look at projections for different ways of counting. Real time worked? Clinical hours? It is the winner.
 
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I am working ~10 clinical hours per week, yes. However, other admin, or charting, or miscellaneous things pop up and I am essentially working 40 hours. Phone messages, refills, etc. I anticipate the total hours per week worked will be relatively fixed/static, especially as the practice shifts from practice building (more time spent on new consults and new patients) and eventually more time with routine follow ups of established patients.

So if you only used this quarter, ~22K to project for a year, and then accounted for 6 weeks vacation and only 10 hours it would be about $191/hr.
(22K x 4) / 46 weeks /10 hours =$191/hr

But if you account for actual hours worked at 40 hours, it comes out to about $47/hr.
(22K x 4) / 46 weeks / 40 hours =$47/hr true/real time worked

Not working for a Big Box shop, Priceless.

My target is to get to 30 clinical hours per week.

So if my overhead increases from the ~80K to 100K at 30hrs, the Gross could be on par with 450K.
450K / 46 weeks / 30hrs = ~$326 per hour in productivity
450K-100K / 46 weeks / 40hrs = $190/hr for true reimbursement for true/real time worked
*run these numbers at 35 or even 40 clinical hours and things look quite different.
*run these numbers with a different payer mix that increases the rate of pay per time worked, things look quite different.


When I had worked with a Big Box Shop, the hours I spent documenting even after work, etc., etc,, my true pay per hour was at best $140/hr for real time worked.

Hands down, private practice is the winner, when you look at projections for different ways of counting. Real time worked? Clinical hours? It is the winner.
Wow 30 hours of admin for 10 hours worked this is disheartening to a person interested in starting up my own practice
 
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Wow 30 hours of admin for 10 hours worked this is disheartening to a person interested in starting up my own practice

While I am certainly putting in non-trivial admin time for my private practice patients, I am right now sitting at around 20 clinical hours per week and doing maybe 5 hours total of admin time? My panel is somewhat smaller but even in weeks where I am doing 7-10 consults per week my admin time maybe bumps up to 10 hours total. What is eating your time, @Sushirolls ?
 
Wow 30 hours of admin for 10 hours worked this is disheartening to a person interested in starting up my own practice
Self reflect...
I over document. I also meticoulsy keep records of expenses, their receipts, keep them organized, and how things are entered into the accounting. Sleep Doc who subleases from me, does these things far less. There are others on here who do very little admin, and if in my shoes in my practice, could probably pull off doing 5 hours. Don't let the prospect of Admin be a barrier. But conversely also take real stock at home much you do now, what are your real clinical hours and what are your real total hours?

There's also some theory out there that if you are given 2 hours to get a task done, you will take 2 hours. Even if the real task time is 30 minutes. I believe I am human and fall prey to this same phenomenon that I have expanded my admin to the time allotted.

*This is partially shaped by dropping kids off, and picking kids up at certain time, so I'm chilling in the office. Not exactly racing to get task XYZ done, and cruise SDN often. But I can assure you, even when I get to 30hrs clinically I will be on the same schedule and only spend 10 hours doing admin. So, definitely don't judge admin time based on my numbers.
 
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While I am certainly putting in non-trivial admin time for my private practice patients, I am right now sitting at around 20 clinical hours per week and doing maybe 5 hours total of admin time? My panel is somewhat smaller but even in weeks where I am doing 7-10 consults per week my admin time maybe bumps up to 10 hours total. What is eating your time, @Sushirolls ?
Care to disclose what you’re netting and your practice setup?
 
Wow 30 hours of admin for 10 hours worked this is disheartening to a person interested in starting up my own practice

There is a lot of variability in cash pp. I now work around 30 clinical hrs and do about 5 admin hours each week. Some cash psychiatrists want to minimize overhead and are fine with slow steady growth. Others take on much higher overhead to minimize admin time while ramping up quickly. There isn’t a “right” way.
 
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So if you only used this quarter, ~22K to project for a year, and then accounted for 6 weeks vacation and only 10 hours it would be about $191/hr.
(22K x 4) / 46 weeks /10 hours =$191/hr

But if you account for actual hours worked at 40 hours, it comes out to about $47/hr.
(22K x 4) / 46 weeks / 40 hours =$47/hr true/real time worked

When I had worked with a Big Box Shop, the hours I spent documenting even after work, etc., etc,, my true pay per hour was at best $140/hr for real time worked.
Just as commentary for readers new to thinking about financial stuff especially comparing employed vs self-employed practice, those hourly figures are only comparable if sushi included value of PTO, employer-provided insurances, additional forms of compensation, etc. into the $140/hr. At first I thought "dang, my nominal hourly pay is only $12X" then I remembered that the "free" insurances, PTO, sick time, and, if I stick with the org, additional annual compensation, would make that number more like $140-$150 in PP.
 
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Just as commentary for readers new to thinking about financial stuff especially comparing employed vs self-employed practice, those hourly figures are only comparable if sushi included value of PTO, employer-provided insurances, additional forms of compensation, etc. into the $140/hr. At first I thought "dang, my nominal hourly pay is only $12X" then I remembered that the "free" insurances, PTO, sick time, and, if I stick with the org, additional annual compensation, would make that number more like $140-$150 in PP.
My $140/hr with Big Box shop included all money; retirement, health insurance, you name it, taxes, added to the in pocket salary ... so the complete total benefits/compensation package.

For private practice the number is the default total compensation, from which you use to then cover taxes, retirement, benefits, etc.

So I'd say conceptually they are pretty comparable. In hind sight the Big Box number might be lower because I wasn't really using much of my vacation time, and without looking at past W2s the Employer portion of taxes may have been estimated wrong.
 
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My $140/hr with Big Box shop included all money; retirement, health insurance, you name it, taxes, added to the in pocket salary ... so the complete total benefits/compensation package.

For private practice the number is the default total compensation, from which you use to then cover taxes, retirement, benefits, etc.

So I'd say conceptually they are pretty comparable. In hind sight the Big Box number might be lower because I wasn't really using much of my vacation time, and without looking at past W2s the Employer portion of taxes may have been estimated wrong.

I got a 237k annual offer with 6 weeks PTO, health insurance, retirement, CME, etc etc. Ran the numbers with all that factored in and recognized between hours at guaranteed rate from side job and realistic projections for revenue assuming I work 46 weeks a year, I still beat it with 30 clinical hours per week instead of 40. I am still filling but definitely on track, and expect to renegotiate my revenue sharing arrangement in the near future as changes related to COVID mean partner is at present in breach of contract.
 
I got a 237k annual offer with 6 weeks PTO, health insurance, retirement, CME, etc etc. Ran the numbers with all that factored in and recognized between hours at guaranteed rate from side job and realistic projections for revenue assuming I work 46 weeks a year, I still beat it with 30 clinical hours per week instead of 40. I am still filling but definitely on track, and expect to renegotiate my revenue sharing arrangement in the near future as changes related to COVID mean partner is at present in breach of contract.
Help clarify this more, you got a job offer for this or are currently working this in addition to your private practice? So 237K +20k Health? + 25k taxes paid by employer +10k CME + 10k retirement? In total is total compensation package of ~302K? How many hours per week did or are you working that job?
 
Help clarify this more, you got a job offer for this or are currently working this in addition to your private practice? So 237K +20k Health? + 25k taxes paid by employer +10k CME + 10k retirement? In total is total compensation package of ~302K? How many hours per week did or are you working that job?

An offer I did not take. Health insurance was closer to 10 than 20 based on comparable exchange policies. Tax burden dramatically lower for solo LLC due to pass-through deductions, so pretty much a wash even accounting for coming up with payroll tax myself. CME was 3k, not 10. Total compensation by my numbers ended up being around 260.

That job on paper was 40 hours a week, but CMHC population.with not great nursing support so definitely not actually 40 hours. As of now 14 hours at side gig per week and closing in on 26 per week private practice (I could be doing less but for a number of reasons I am not). Currently my set up is 70/30 split with someone else handling billing, intakes, chasing down co-pays, etc. As we have shed insurers and shutter physical offices I am going to insist on 80/20, which is closer to standard around here anyway.

And if not, well, my non-compete is pretty toothless and 30% of my current panel is self-pay anyway so no reason I can't walk.
 
When looking at taxes paid by employer, you should only take into account the 50% of Social security/Medicare taxes paid by employers. And at higher income levels, the Social security drops off.
 
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When looking at taxes paid by employer, you should only take into account the 50% of Social security/Medicare taxes paid by employers. And at higher income levels, the Social security drops off.
Good point. Its been awhile since I truly crunched the old Big Box shop numbers, I did it way back before I started the practice, so all the numbers I tossed around are likely off, but the grand summary is Private Practice (cash or insurance based) is greater per hour pay rate then employed jobs for time/effort worked, with the exception of the early start up phase of a private practice is likely to be worse. There is an inflection point on this linear graph where the private practice clearly flips over, based upon unique variables.
 
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@Sushirolls have you hit up local private practice therapists? Maybe search Psychology Today? That is where a majority of my referrals come from and they are thrilled to have someone to refer patients who are in need of med evaluation/management. In my area many of the clinics don't offer medication only and require the patient also receive therapy from their office due to a lack of prescribers.
 
Is it me or are PP/cash/good insurance patients generally easier to work with, less psychopathology, less trauma and hence more likely to get better? I work with a pretty tough medicaid population, some that have been on medications for years with no mention of getting better..it's frustrating sometimes.
 
Is it poor taste to charge money for prior authorization, and excuse letters in a cash practice? What about med changes in between appointments without a visit?
 
Is it poor taste to charge money for prior authorization, and excuse letters in a cash practice? What about med changes in between appointments without a visit?

Just put it in your office policies document. Mine includes the option to charge for letters, calls and court appearances the latter which is strongly discouraged. Fortunately so far I have not been subpoenaed and haven't ever charged anyone for a call or writing a letter as they are few and far between. Its nice to have the option though.
 
Just put it in your office policies document. Mine includes the option to charge for letters, calls and court appearances the latter which is strongly discouraged. Fortunately so far I have not been subpoenaed and haven't ever charged anyone for a call or writing a letter as they are few and far between. Its nice to have the option though.

Really my pts always have forms or need letters.. very common. What about doing PA?
 
Really my pts always have forms or need letters.. very common. What about doing PA?

yes, you should be charging for everything that you do, does a lawyer complete a form for you for free?
 
yes, you should be charging for everything that you do, does a lawyer complete a form for you for free?

No, but doctors aren't lawyers. Most medicine doctors never charge for this kind of thing, so just makes me feel a little weird.
 
No, but doctors aren't lawyers. Most medicine doctors never charge for this kind of thing, so just makes me feel a little weird.

which is why doctors get suckered in business by everyone ex: hospitals, patients, insurance companies... we are always being conned by everyone.
If doctors were very business keen they would have the entire market cornered including insurance companies.
 
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No, but doctors aren't lawyers. Most medicine doctors never charge for this kind of thing, so just makes me feel a little weird.

there’s no difference between a doctor and a lawyer, you’re both providing a service, if you want to give out your services for free you are free to do so.
 
yes, you should be charging for everything that you do, does a lawyer complete a form for you for free?
This is why everyone hates lawyers. No you should not charge for prior authorizations. Do them in the appointment. Your fee should include these sorts of costs rather than nickel and diming. If you have a concierge practice, the membership fee should include doing this stuff.
Pt calls longer than 5mins, yes you should charge for so pts appreciate that time (unless this is bundled into your concierge fee).
Pt letters - it depends on the letter. If it is important, don't charge. If it is dumb, either don't do it, or charge a nominal fee (e.g. $150 for an ESA letter). Personally, I do letters during the appt time, only do it if I think it's important, and I don't charge for it.
 
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This is why everyone hates lawyers. No you should not charge for prior authorizations. Do them in the appointment. Your fee should include these sorts of costs rather than nickel and diming. If you have a concierge practice, the membership fee should include doing this stuff.
Pt calls longer than 5mins, yes you should charge for so pts appreciate that time (unless this is bundled into your concierge fee).
Pt letters - it depends on the letter. If it is important, don't charge. If it is dumb, either don't do it, or charge a nominal fee (e.g. $150 for an ESA letter). Personally, I do letters during the appt time, only do it if I think it's important, and I don't charge for it.

Prior auth during the appointment? Not all of them can be done with a quick form, some require you to call the insurance
 
Agree with @splik.

Charging for prior-auths is kinda a stretch, it's not really the patient's fault their insurance is a pain in the ass and won't pay for Latuda unless you document they've failed 3 other antipsychotics.

Charging for easy letters as well is really dumb. Doctor's excuse letters for work that day and stuff? I'd piss my pants laughing and tell the psychiatrist I'll take my money elsewhere if I'm paying $175 for a followup appointment and you can't even write me an excuse letter for work. Medication letters for school? That takes 5 minutes and you just look like an dingus if you try to charge parents for that.

Fight the battles that are actually worth it. Phone calls >5 minutes, ESA letters, social security paperwork (since 50% of the time this is "disability" paperwork for "depression"...) etc. as noted above.
 
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Prior auth during the appointment? Not all of them can be done with a quick form, some require you to call the insurance
you call the patient during the appt time. I think patients should know how much of a nuisance the prior authorization process is and it does help when talking to the person on the other end of the line for them to know the patient is also in the room.
 
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