esposo

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I don't have a desire to go to the most prestigious of programs but I do want to attend a program that has a fair number of fellowships that take their own people regardless if it is a community program. I'm really interested in Heme-Onc or GI. However, my first year grades are not as competitive as I would like for them to be?

How will this affect my chances in the end? I know board scores are equally if not more important. And I have heard mixed reviews about fellowship and pre-clinical grades. I heard some programs do weigh pre-clinical grades highly while others have said they don't matter at all.

What has been your experience?
 

vitaminjb

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As far as I can tell pre-clinical grades - especially first year - mean very little, FAR less than boards and clinical grades. I can't imagine that they're even looked at at the fellowship level. Failing a class wouldn't look great though.
 

jocwyo

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Don't let people lie to you. Pre-clinical grades do matter especially for GI and Heme-Onc. Getting along with the residents and being known as a hardworker is nice but it won't land you a competitive fellowship without some essential grades. You don't have to be AOA but if you repeated a year or ranked in the bottom half of your class, you would have no chance at GI, Cards or Allergy and quite possibly Heme-Onc as well.
 

novacek88

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As with everything else, the most competitive fields take everything into account. Yes, it's true that some PD's will select a candidate based on the good ole boy network so if you don't have stellar grades but you made a great impression during your residency and you have adequate research, you can nail a cardiology, GI or allergy fellowship but this would be rare. These fellowships are the most competitive IM fellowships and thus most PD's do take everything into account because they are forced to.
 

bariume

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novacek88 said:
As with everything else, the most competitive fields take everything into account. Yes, it's true that some PD's will select a candidate based on the good ole boy network so if you don't have stellar grades but you made a great impression during your residency and you have adequate research, you can nail a cardiology, GI or allergy fellowship but this would be rare. These fellowships are the most competitive IM fellowships and thus most PD's do take everything into account because they are forced to.

Fellowship apps require transcripts from your medical school. Most likely your old transcript is not very high on the scale of importance.

According to an article on the ACP website by Dr. Alguire, the director of ACP's career development section, these are the things that are important to fellowship directors. I do not see preclinical grades as being on that list.

" Listed below are qualities and other factors important to fellowship directors, ranked from the most important to the least important:

1. Negative comments or hints of underlying problems in letter written by internal medicine program director
2. Personal comments by the internal medicine program director
3. The personal aspect of the interview
4. Letter of recommendation from a cardiologist known by the fellowship director
5. Performance during an elective at the fellowship site
6. Rank order in the residency class
7. Genuine interest in research
8. Being a graduate of a US medical school
9. Letter of recommendation from a nationally known cardiologist
10. Doing a residency program at an institution with a well known cardiology division
11. Participation in research prior to the fellowship program
12. Assessment of medical knowledge during the interview
13. Publications prior to fellowship
14. Performance on the ABIM certifying examination if available
15. US citizenship
16. Performance on the USMLE"


Here is the direct link to the article
http://www.acponline.org/counseling/fs_train.htm
 

irlandesa

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what exactly is taken into account by PD's in creating residency class rank? clinical grades? performance evals from attendings, colleagues, etc.? sorry for the dumb question..
 

14022

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Every cardiologist that I have discussed fellowships with has told me that all that really matters is how well you have been trained. Those who do well at a good residency program usually are more competitive. While pre-clinical grades do not have much to do with fellowship directly, they may have something to do with where you match for IM.

You cannot change your pre-clinical grades. Do not let that push you away from your interests. If I were you, I would try to do research in the field in which you intend to apply, study really hard for your boards, and work your tail off third year and things should work out fine.
 

Dazed

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How about the more relevant question to most of us here suffering from very little motivation:
How about 4th year grades & fellowship? If they suck, will that limit us from any fellowship opportunities?
 

novacek88

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bariume said:
Fellowship apps require transcripts from your medical school. Most likely your old transcript is not very high on the scale of importance.

According to an article on the ACP website by Dr. Alguire, the director of ACP's career development section, these are the things that are important to fellowship directors. I do not see preclinical grades as being on that list.

" Listed below are qualities and other factors important to fellowship directors, ranked from the most important to the least important:

1. Negative comments or hints of underlying problems in letter written by internal medicine program director
2. Personal comments by the internal medicine program director
3. The personal aspect of the interview
4. Letter of recommendation from a cardiologist known by the fellowship director
5. Performance during an elective at the fellowship site
6. Rank order in the residency class
7. Genuine interest in research
8. Being a graduate of a US medical school
9. Letter of recommendation from a nationally known cardiologist
10. Doing a residency program at an institution with a well known cardiology division
11. Participation in research prior to the fellowship program
12. Assessment of medical knowledge during the interview
13. Publications prior to fellowship
14. Performance on the ABIM certifying examination if available
15. US citizenship
16. Performance on the USMLE"


Here is the direct link to the article
http://www.acponline.org/counseling/fs_train.htm

I have read this before. While it is interesting to read, it is certainly one person's opinion. You can be assured that if one fails a class, repeats a year or is junior AOA, it will be noticed and taken into consideration when one applies for the most competitive fellowships and programs.