Pre med at Washington State University vs. University of Washington

[asound]

I was wondering which is better to attend for pre med, I am very confused on which would be a better option, anybody who attends there and is pre med, please give any advice. I like the Seattle area, but I also like the idea of smaller classes.

Advantages at UW:
*Research opportunities
*volunteer opportunities
*strong emphasis on science

Disadvantages at UW:
*huge classes, so not having strong letters

Advantages at WSU:
*Smaller classes
*pre med advising committee

Disadvantages at WSU:
*in the middle of nowhere, so very few opportunities to volunteer at a hospital

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[dsk89]

I am just about to graduate from the UW and am currently about to apply to medical school. I would highly recommend going to UW over WSU if you are focused on being a pre-med. The advantages you listed are definitely true for UW. The disadvantages are also true. But also consider that, yes, there are many big classes, but it is not out of the question to get a letter from a professor. The question is whether YOU have the drive and determination to get to know your professor outside of the lecture hall and get that letter. Yes, in some classes that are 700 people, it is difficult. But as you take more advances classes, you will have smaller classes and have more access to the professor.

The fact that WSU has a pre-med advising committee is both good and bad. It is good because medical schools will always be happy if you get a very positive committee letter of recommendation. It is bad, however, because committee letters often take time to put together and they are sent in much later in the application cycle for medical school. And medical school is rolling admissions, so delayed time could mean the difference of a rejection and getting an invite to that interview.

Overall, my suggestion is UW, because you will have an infinite number of opportunities to build up your extracurriculars, there is great faculty here for you to meet and get to know, UW is a much better and more difficult school academically compared to WSU and that will be duly noted by medical schools when you apply, and finally Seattle beats Pullman.

Hope that helps with your decision. Good luck!

 

[SpacemanSpifff]

The fact that WSU has a pre-med advising committee is both good and bad. It is good because medical schools will always be happy if you get a very positive committee letter of recommendation.1. It is bad, however, because committee letters often take time to put together and they are sent in much later in the application cycle for medical school. And medical school is rolling admissions, so delayed time could mean the difference of a rejection and getting an invite to that interview.

Overall, my suggestion is UW, because you will have an infinite number of opportunities to build up your extracurriculars, there is great faculty here for you to meet and get to know, UW is a much better and more difficult school academically compared to WSU and that will be duly noted by medical schools when you apply, and finally 2. Seattle beats Pullman.

1) Not necessarily true in my experience (although at a school as large as WSU the process may be different). I'm applying this cycle and my committee letter has already been received by AMCAS, probably because I have been on my committee about it since December.

2) No question about that. OP, if you've never visited Pullman the only thing you're missing out on is the $11 Busch 30's (if you're into that sort of thing.)

Plus Seattle is a veritable hotbed of biomedical research. Such a large number of research labs in one city could make it easier to find an interesting/relevant summer job in your undergrad. I have a few friends that picked up research gigs in labs at Fred Hutch and Seattle Biomed for the summer and they're loving it.

 

[Guy Montag]

UW for sure. I went to a top 20, but my buddy there was from Seattle. He took summer classes there every year. Said the campus was beautiful and the classes weren't that rigorous (so if you're worried about lower GPA in comparison, I wouldn't worry too much). Also, UW opens up more opportunities for great experiences in research and other medically-related shenanigans. I actually almost went to UW for undergrad, but I'm from the east coast so it was simply too far.

 

[Temerit]

I'm finishing up my freshman year at UW and would have to recommend UW is well. It really is a great campus and there are tons of research opportunities.

 

[asound]

Thank you so much, it is great to get it from someone who is actually going through the process. Also dsk 89, what did you major in, I know that medical schools don't mind what you major in, and a lot of students are majoring in science. So do you think it is a great idea to major in science? Is it easy to get a spot in research opportunities, I heard that they were competitive.

 

[tiedyeddog]

I would have loved to do undergrad in Seattle. The UW campus is gorgeous, too.

 

[BABSstudent]

Advantages at WSU:
*Smaller classes
*pre med advising committee

Disadvantages at WSU:
*in the middle of nowhere, so very few opportunities to volunteer at a hospital

Since I am actually a senior at WSU, I will share my take. As you can tell by my username, I am getting a BA and a BS, so feel free to ask me about the college of science or liberal arts.
I applied to both UW and WSU when I was in high school and was accepted at both. I ultimate chose to attend WSU based on the professors. On a campus tour of WSU, two professors took me to their research labs and showed me around. They then bought me lunch and passed me to a few grad students. I saw the campus in a way that UW never showed me theirs.
UW is located in Seattle, which some say is a plus. However, I enjoy Pullman (minus Greek row) and the size. For me, college was not about partying or the atmosphere, it was about the school. The science students are way different than the vibe given off by the Greek system at WSU. In fact, we are not a party university. Look at our crime rate! Our crime goes up during the holidays because we get partiers that come to us.
Smaller class sizes is a huge plus (minus the freshman level chemistry and biology courses which have 200-300 students). But I am sure UW has comparable sizes.
As for hospitals, if you want to volunteer in one there is the Pullman Regional Hospital that always accepts volunteers. There is also Health and Wellness, as well as a few in Moscow, ID. There are also many doctors to shadow, but not as many as in Seattle. Take it as you will, but I am content with 150 hour of clinical volunteering I did in Pullman and 80 hours of shadowing.
The Pre-Med office (also called STEM) is really helpful and encouraging. They are in the process of writing my committee letter now! I have been closely tied to them for my entire undergraduate career and Gloria and Kay both know me by name and about my entire family. They keep track of club events and know about other activities in the surrounding area (including a list of medical offices, volunteering locations, healthcare setting practice, etc. for Freshman to use and get in contact with).
WSU is a research institute. I have done research since my Junior year, and most of my friends have done it Freshman year. I am sure UW also gets research funds, and the businesses around them do too, but in my mind that means you will have a lot more competition to get into it. Population of Pullman is 35,000 but the population of Seattle and surrounding area is over a million. Take that as you will. I am sure you would get more healthcare research experiences in Seattle, but PRH started medical research last year and pays the students.
Oh, final plus for Pullman is the cost of living. I live in a super nice house, right next to campus and spend $450 for rent. My previous years I went cheap and only spent $200 a month and then walked to campus/biked/bused depending on the weather.
Cons? I am sure there are a few for both schools. I can't think of any that I have experienced at WSU other than people giving me crap for going here. Your undergraduate experience is only worth as much as you put into it. We just had a student get accepted at Harvard Medical School with a full ride scholarship and he says that WSU helped him get in, but it was mostly his character and drive that caused him to get accepted.

 

[solitarius]

From your original post, it sounds like you're set on the Dub and that exploring Wazzu is just a side experiment. Both schools have enough science PhD's with labs to accommodate an undergrad. The typical undergrad at a state school is not going to be doing groundbreaking research, so exploiting UW's stronger research/emphasis on science seems questionable. As for stronger emphasis on science, med schools just care that you do the pre-reqs and mayber a couple of upper-level bio courses; either school can provide that.

Where I can agree is that UW-Seattle has a medical school and urban center that offers more volunteer, clinical, and recreational opportunities than WSU-Pullman. For example, you could do clinical research at UWSOM, but not so much in Pullman.

My question is why you are limiting yourself to just Pullman vs. Seattle? Each school has multiple campuses. For example, WSU-Vancouver is right next to Portland which has OHSU.

U-Dub is on quarters, but Wazzu is on semesters. Some prefer one over the other.

 

[BABSstudent]

Where I can agree is that UW-Seattle has a medical school and urban center that offers more volunteer, clinical, and recreational opportunities than WSU-Pullman. For example, you could do clinical research at UWSOM, but not so much in Pullman.

UW has medical school branches at WSU Spokane (only 20 WWAMI students at the moment but is getting a full medical school through UW next year) and WSU Pullman (40 WWAMI students). They do clinical research too, but I am sure UW has much more than we can offer.

 

[asound]

Cons? I am sure there are a few for both schools. I can't think of any that I have experienced at WSU other than people giving me crap for going here. Your undergraduate experience is only worth as much as you put into it. We just had a student get accepted at Harvard Medical School with a full ride scholarship and he says that WSU helped him get in, but it was mostly his character and drive that caused him to get accepted.

Wow, that's amazing. Were you close to the professors? Did the person have like straight A's, because I want to know how they were able to do that. Do you think that the premed committee is helpful? Also I am not quite familiar with the difference between a BA and a BS, if you could please explain. Thank you for your feedback, it's great to get a point of view from a WSU student.

 

[bigdogrob4284]

WSU is a party school. If you want to be well prepared for the MCAT, then definitely go to UW.

 

[asound]

From your original post, it sounds like you're set on the Dub and that exploring Wazzu is just a side experiment.

Well, actually I have always been interested in UW, since visiting the campus in sixth grade. Recently though, my teacher, who is almost like a mentor, has told me to keep my options open. She said how there is a scholarship in WSU, where they could give you a full ride. So I have been thinking how I should, since I want to go to medical school, I would have to save money and not have a huge debt by that time. I feel that both have their advantages and disadvantages, so I want to clear up my doubts by asking people who are actually already in the schools. This way I wouldn't have regrets on which school I want to attend.

 

[BABSstudent]

Wow, that's amazing. Were you close to the professors? Did the person have like straight A's, because I want to know how they were able to do that. Do you think that the premed committee is helpful? Also I am not quite familiar with the difference between a BA and a BS, if you could please explain. Thank you for your feedback, it's great to get a point of view from a WSU student.

I never met the professors before that day. I was just on a tour and the professors starting to talk to us and invited me to check out their research facilities. However, I might be an outlier. That is why I recommend checking out the schools before accepting one over the other. You might decide you hate the 6 hour drive from Seattle to Pullman, or you might decide you love the scenery.

The premed committee is helpful for some, but not for others. I think it all depends on how you use them. It is nice to have advisors that actively talk to adcom members and understand what they are looking for. They relay that information to us. It is awesome because that is their job and they obviously have success if the school keeps them on payroll.

And a BA means a Bachelors of Arts (I am getting a degree in Spanish) and a BS means a Bachelors of Science (Zoology degree). I started in 2008 and will graduate in December. I am applying in this cycle. I did well on the MCAT, a 30, but I am retaking again because I want a higher score because I know I can do better than that.

But like I said, you get people like the ones above me bashing WSU (just go to uwrejects.com and you can instantly see what I mean). They say we just party. I won't lie, if you want to party then there are parties. But I am sure that exists at all schools. In fact, I know it exists at all schools. Stay away from the Greek system and you will do fine at WSU.

 

[asound]

But like I said, you get people like the ones above me bashing WSU (just go to uwrejects.com and you can instantly see what I mean). They say we just party. I won't lie, if you want to party then there are parties. But I am sure that exists at all schools. In fact, I know it exists at all schools. Stay away from the Greek system and you will do fine at WSU.

Thanks for your feedback, it was really helpful.

 

[BABSstudent]

No problem, PM me if you ever come to Pullman. I would recommend visiting either in the Spring or after August that way you will see what it is like when students are around. Right now it is just summer classes and the population drops since nobody is here (the bonus is that the hospital is looking for volunteers and you can volunteer there everyday during the summer if you want).
But seriously, consider visiting each school and sit in on a few classes. If you choose WSU, that's great! If you choose UW, then that's fine! We will see you during the Apple Cup.

 

[asound]

But seriously, consider visiting each school and sit in on a few classes. If you choose WSU, that's great! If you choose UW, then that's fine! We will see you during the Apple Cup.

Definitely will take a visit to both.

 

[dsk89]

I double majored in biochemistry and history. And it is true that medical schools don't mind what you major in. They want you to major in something you are truly passionate about and can do well in (because, keep in mind, your GPA is very important). I started off as a history major, and I ended up taking all the medical school pre-req's and I liked biology especially so I took some biochem classes and ended up just completing a biochem major as well.

It is definitely up to you whether you want to major in a science or not. Either way, it won't hurt you for medical school. In fact, I've heard that recently medical schools are actually liking applicants that branch out and major in other fields as well, while at the same time able to maintain good grades in science classes. But this def doesnt mean that you will be looked down upon by med schools if you pick a science major. Medical schools want to see well-rounded students so if you happened to like History or Communications or Economics or whatever else, then go for it! But keep in mind balance, because in addition to your major related classes you will have to take the pre-med pre-req classes and do well in them (they will be a part of your science GPA that med schools look at).

Lastly all I can advise you to think about is time and money. If you double major and are not on top of your classes or not getting into classes or just taking other random classes, then you will most likely be in college for more than 4 years. I managed just fine with two majors, but some quarters I had to pile on the credits and I took two full summer quarters as well. I was so on top of it that I actually finished at UW a quarter earlier than planned!

Good luck!

 

[thesauce]

UW is a much better and more difficult school academically compared to WSU and that will be duly noted by medical schools when you apply, and finally Seattle beats Pullman.

Gotta love these indefensible, matter-of-fact statements from pre-meds. Some of the most arrogant people I've ever met have been from UW.

 

[Heavens Cloud]

I was accepted to both WSU and UW, ended up going to WSU-Vancouver mainly because of the price. That being said, WSU's tuition is insanely expensive, so if you have the option of living in Seattle and don't care about the price of living there, then I'd say go for it. I love the Portland area so WSU-Vancouver was a perfect fit for me, and the small class sizes were great.

To say that WSU puts you at a disadvantage applying for medical school is insane. I know multiple people from my graduating class that were accepted to multiple schools, including UW SOM. Work hard and you'll do fine at either institution.

 

[tiedyeddog]

Gotta love these indefensible, matter-of-fact statements from pre-meds. Some of the most arrogant people I've ever met have been from UW.

Ha, you don't think this guy is an expert? He probably has some peer-reviewed data behind his statements, just forgot to mention it.

In all seriousness guy/gal, go where you'll

a. be happiest over the next 3-4 years (location, interests, minors you might want to take, athletics, whatever)
b. be most happy with whatever amount of debt you end up with. If it's the higher amount of debt but you're the most happy, so be it.

You can get letters of recommendations at any school you go to. I went to one of the biggest universities in the nation for undergrad. My prereq classes routinely had 800+ kids in them. Once you get into your major courses it gets much, much better. I had no trouble getting LOR's. Don't base your decision on that, it's just silly.

Plus I didn't mind large classes. I don't think small classes make learning stuff like organic chemistry any better. You can see the professor or TA during office time, no big deal.

Research is something that is school dependent. If you're interested in research it might be better to go to the place that has more labs available.

 

[BABSstudent]

I totally agree with tiedyeddog. Go where you will be happy and not regret the amount you will spend. If you hate the wheat fields, then WSU is not right for you. If you hate traffic/spending money on commuting to campus then UW is probably not the right choice. You have to go to both schools to find out what you like. Go into the classrooms and try to envision yourself in the class. There are factors that you cannot investigate without actually going to the campus. Are most of the classes in rooms without windows, or do you dislike having to walk up six flights of stairs everyday, can you handle the dreaded Pullman hills (walking uphill to class in the snow, both ways) etc. There are also things you can investigate at your computer. Like, do you want to experience snow or rain in the winter? Finally, how important is school spirit to you? This is important to some students but not for others. WSU is known for its school spirit. I own more shirts that are crimson now than other colors. Definitely wasn't that way before I came to school.
But you have to make the trip to each school to find out what you like and don't like. You will have to do the same thing when you do interviews at medical schools. Earlier this semester, I watched a potential freshman cry because she was too far away from home and missed her parents. There isn't much she could do except know that WSU was probably too far away from her family and that she should apply to other schools. If she can barely handle a weekend tour, how could she survive a semester away from them? She never would have known that until she made the trip out here.

 

[Temerit]

If you hate traffic/spending money on commuting to campus then UW is probably not the right choice.

What on earth are you talking about? There is plenty of housing within a 10 minute walk to campus. Plus with tuition you get UPass which gets you on any of the buses (which cover most all of Seattle and surrounding areas) + light rail for free.

Some of the most arrogant people I've ever met have been from UW.

Indefensible? UW is a more difficult and competitive school academically. I went to high school in Washington and the people with the highest GPAs went to UW. UW attracts people who are more academically motivated.

Based on my experience, and my friends' experiences at WSU I guarantee you UW classes are more competitive/difficult.

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There are a variety of things that go into a school being a good fit for you. I would look into them. As others have said, price, location, campus vibe, research opportunities, class sizes, quality of professors, quality of degree programs that interest you etc should all factor into your decision.

 

[thesauce]

Indefensible? UW is a more difficult and competitive school academically. I went to high school in Washington and the people with the highest GPAs went to UW. UW attracts people who are more academically motivated.

Based on my experience, and my friends' experiences at WSU I guarantee you UW classes are more competitive/difficult.

And this is the very definition of indefensible - relying on anecdotal evidence to make overreaching statements. It is very likely that UW attracts more academically motivated students than WSU, however, does this equate to a "much better and more difficult school?" That's the real question and, as much as your guarantee is worth, it isn't very convincing evidence.

 

[Temerit]

I never said "better". "Better" is completely subjective. But being a state school I can tell you that the academically motivated students at my school overwhelmingly pursued UW. One went to WSU for scholarships and because he doesn't like the city.

The fact that you automatically get accepted to WSU with a 3.5 GPA in high school tells you a lot. A 3.5 usually won't get you into UW.

And as far as your arguments go about this only being based off of my personal experience, it is the dominant narrative and the numbers overwhelmingly stack up in favor of it, my friends at WSU agree. Look at the median GPAs and SAT scores of incoming students.

The UW is also a very diverse school and I would credit them with that because I've been able to learn a lot from many different people by hanging around the Ethnic Cultural Center and other places, I've also made friends with several international students at UW which has been a very valuable experience.

 

[BABSstudent]

Look at the median GPAs and SAT scores of incoming students.

The UW is also a very diverse school and I would credit them with that because I've been able to learn a lot from many different people by hanging around the Ethnic Cultural Center and other places, I've also made friends with several international students at UW which has been a very valuable experience.

Just because a school has higher GPA of incoming students and higher SAT scores doesn't make it the better school. By your logic, the best medical schools are the ones where the top MCAT score and GPA go to. We both know that is not true. I would much rather go to UW because they are top ranked for primary care doctors even though they have a much lower MCAT score average than other top medical schools.

And you also make the assumption that UW is the only school to have a diverse campus. But I am glad you get to "hang around the Ethnic Cultural Center and other places." That must mean a lot. I am pretty sure every college campus will allow you to walk from one building to another and hear at least four different languages being spoken.

I know you have gone to UW for a year, which means you are an expert at WSU. That must be why you talk so much more about WSU than UW. How about instead of bashing WSU, you give him another insight to UW.That is what he came for, but I don't see where you have given any advice.

 

[BABSstudent]

What on earth are you talking about? There is plenty of housing within a 10 minute walk to campus. Plus with tuition you get UPass which gets you on any of the buses (which cover most all of Seattle and surrounding areas) + light rail for free.

How much is housing that is within a 10 minute walk to campus? A house, not an apartment, that is a 10 minute walk to campus at WSU costs $300 to $400 a month. If you want an apartment, then they are cheaper, around $250 to $350 a month. And UW Seattle is a commuter campus, which means many people drive there. That is why your parking lots are HUGE!!!
I used to live in the Seattle area. Traffic sucks and there are lots of stop lights if you are not driving on the highway. Sure you get a free bus pass, but that still could add a half hour or more of commuting to campus and back home every day if one chooses to live in a cheaper location.

 

[tiedyeddog]

Gotta love these indefensible, matter-of-fact statements from pre-meds. Some of the most arrogant people I've ever met have been from UW.

I never said "better". "Better" is completely subjective. But being a state school I can tell you that the academically motivated students at my school overwhelmingly pursued UW. One went to WSU for scholarships and because he doesn't like the city.

The fact that you automatically get accepted to WSU with a 3.5 GPA in high school tells you a lot. A 3.5 usually won't get you into UW.

And as far as your arguments go about this only being based off of my personal experience, it is the dominant narrative and the numbers overwhelmingly stack up in favor of it, my friends at WSU agree. Look at the median GPAs and SAT scores of incoming students.

The UW is also a very diverse school and I would credit them with that because I've been able to learn a lot from many different people by hanging around the Ethnic Cultural Center and other places, I've also made friends with several international students at UW which has been a very valuable experience.

From a "getting into medical standpoint" it sounds like anyone debating WSU vs. UW should go to WSU. If the classes are that much easier one could pull a higher GPA at WSU and beat out all of the UW applicants who went to the unnecessarily hard college.

 

[thesauce]

You've really demolished the straw-man you've built, but you really haven't given us a cohesive argument to support your standpoint.

I never said "better". "Better" is completely subjective. .

No, but dsk89 did, and you defended him.

I never said "better". "Better" is completely subjective. But being a state school I can tell you that the academically motivated students at my school overwhelmingly pursued UW. One went to WSU for scholarships and because he doesn't like the city. The fact that you automatically get accepted to WSU with a 3.5 GPA in high school tells you a lot. A 3.5 usually won't get you into UW.

What BABSstudent and I are trying to explain to you is that there are many things that make someone choose one school over another. The entrance statistics don't necessarily equate to a better academic experience or a more academically-challenging school.

And as far as your arguments go about this only being based off of my personal experience, it is the dominant narrative and the numbers overwhelmingly stack up in favor of it, my friends at WSU agree. Look at the median GPAs and SAT scores of incoming students..

I have absolutely no interest and I'm not sure why you do. One thing that you'll learn, if you do end up in med school and beyond, is that the dominant narrative is very often misleading if not a downright lie.

The UW is also a very diverse school and I would credit them with that because I've been able to learn a lot from many different people by hanging around the Ethnic Cultural Center and other places, I've also made friends with several international students at UW which has been a very valuable experience.

Good. Put that on your med school application.

 

[BABSstudent]

Good. Put that on your med school application.

I love it!


Back to the OP, I seriously hope I am not coming off the wrong way. UW is a great state school and if you want to go there then that's fine. Just make sure you are the right fit. As you can see, Temerit and I are very different people. I probably would not be the right fit at that school.

 

[dsk89]

My apologies thesauce, I honestly did not intend to be arrogant in my reply, so I'm sorry that I came off that way. But you are totally right, I shouldn't have said better because that is a totally subjective statement.

"What BABSstudent and I are trying to explain to you is that there are many things that make someone choose one school over another. The entrance statistics don't necessarily equate to a better academic experience or a more academically-challenging school."

I totally agree with the above statement by thesauce.
And I think, based on some of the other replies as well, that OP should definitely go where he/she will be happiest. That is definitely something I can speak for, as I know plenty of people here at UW Seattle that are totally in love with the place, but I couldn't have said the same for me. I struggled to adjust to WA as I'm originally from California, and overall I recognize its given me good research opportunities etc, but I didn't have that spectacular of an experience. So it just depends on the person and their priorities.

 

[asound]

There are a variety of things that go into a school being a good fit for you. I would look into them. As others have said, price, location, campus vibe, research opportunities, class sizes, quality of professors, quality of degree programs that interest you etc should all factor into your decision.

I will keep all those in mind, thank you.

 

[Temerit]

I have absolutely no interest and I'm not sure why you do. One thing that you'll learn, if you do end up in med school and beyond, is that the dominant narrative is very often misleading if not a downright lie.

Now who's coming off as arrogant?

Alright, I'll just disregard all of my experience and all of my friend's experiences because they are probably wrong and you're probably right. The people I know going to UW and WSU probably don't know what they're talking about.

When classes are grading on a curve and you have significantly higher GPA & SAT students competing at UW, please explain to me how it isn't going to be more competitive? My best friend from high school goes to WSU and loves it, but based on the many conversations we've had, UW's classes are definitely more challenging (at least the core science classes).

No, but dsk89 did, and you defended him.

He said his OPINION was that UW was the better choice. That's completely different from claiming that UW is objectively better.

From a "getting into medical standpoint" it sounds like anyone debating WSU vs. UW should go to WSU. If the classes are that much easier one could pull a higher GPA at WSU and beat out all of the UW applicants who went to the unnecessarily hard college.

It's not unreasonably hard, and I can attest to the fact that the competitive nature of the classes has helped encourage me to truly master the material, which could pay off on the MCAT.

 

[Slev]

Guys guys guys, this can all be settled by looking at the overall apple cup results. Clearly UW is the better school

Seriously though, go to the school you like best and feel most comfortable at. If you do well, you'll get into a good med school regardless of which one you choose.

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2

 

[thesauce]

Alright, I'll just disregard all of my experience and all of my friend's experiences because they are probably wrong and you're probably right. The people I know going to UW and WSU probably don't know what they're talking about..

I'm going to try to explain this one more time. Your friends can only give you their own limited perspective, in their own major, at their own institution. Depending on their personalities, they may exaggerate the ease or difficulty of their courses or they may just outright lie. They may be struggling when they say that they're breezing through - you just don't know. However, you are using their biased comments to justify sweeping generalizations about institutions consisting of tens of thousands of students. In the end, you may be right that UW is the more challenging school, I don't know, but neither do you.

When classes are grading on a curve and you have significantly higher GPA & SAT students competing at UW, please explain to me how it isn't going to be more competitive?

There are many ways. You can soften the curve and allow grade inflation or you can simply not grade on a curve. Simply set the bar at a high level and make the best students leap over it. You can make the case that hard science and engineering courses at WSU attract stronger students, putting them on an equal footing with the UW crowd.

My best friend from high school goes to WSU and loves it, but based on the many conversations we've had, UW's classes are definitely more challenging (at least the core science classes)..

This just sounds silly. So if my best friend went to UW and said that it was easy, would you now believe that?

He said his OPINION was that UW was the better choice. That's completely different from claiming that UW is objectively better.

That's NOT what he said. And he has apologized for it (props to dsk89). Now you're defending his previous comments that even he doesn't want to hang onto.

 

[solitarius]

With all due respect, Temerit, you act as if UW vs. WSU is like Harvard vs. Oregon State, or maybe something less humble as in Berkeley vs. Cal State - Hayward. Next thing you know, you'll be dissing the kids who chose to go to UW-Tacoma or Bothell b/c they didn't decide to go to Seattle.

Hate to burst your bubble, but U-Dub is not that elite for you to be thumbing your nose at Wazzu to the extent that you do. U-Dub mostly attracts the kids from the Puget Sound who choose to go there because 1) it's close by, and 2) they couldn't get into a nationally elite school. I partly disagree with the second reason b/c I do think smart kids are biased towards going to school nearby, but you don't extend that same consideration to the kids who live outside Puget Sound that choose Wazzu. In case you haven't noticed, the economy is terrible and the additional room & board expense for going to UW-Seattle is affecting a lot of people's plans.

I will agree that the Puget Sound has a high concentration of top high schools and upper middle class areas that produce a high number of well-prepared college students. But do you really think the rest of the state produces inferior idiots? Those kids tend to go to community college or major in business or nursing right away. How often do you see mediocre high school students aspiring to be doctors? Self-selection could also be at play here. At Wazzu, a lot of the not-so-smart kids do not even attempt the pre-med track really (upward selection bias). Whereas at UW-Seattle, is it possible that a lot of marginally average students are doing pre-med because everyone else is (downward selection bias)?

Due to self-selection, I'll bet the pre-med pre-reqs at U-Dub are only slightly tougher than Wazzu. That slight edge covers that socioeconomic advantage discussed above. But still, to get an A is to be in the top 15 or so percent. I documented my challenges of maintaining a high premed GPA here as well: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=902981

The difficulty of a course is entirely determined by the professor alone. Their attitude and philosophy varies by course, department, and... [wait for it] school. I just finished my pre-reqs at Wazzu. The average grade on the final exam for Bio 2 last year was a 65 (D), and the professor refused to curve. I can tell you the mean for the Gen Chem mid-terms last year. You ready? It was 84, 76, 64, 75, 50, and 45. In first-semester O-chem this year, half the students got 65 or lower on both mid-terms. My genetics class had a mean of 74, 70, and 82.

Oh, and I got a 96 percentile on the ACS O-chem. How did you do?

P.S. - Not gonna lie. There's not a lot of geniuses at Wazzu, but I doubt they are many at U-Dub either. Passing a science class is very do-able with a committed baseline amount of work, but getting A's require serious work.

 

[Temerit]

I'm not saying it's anything like Harvard vs. Oregon State, but I would assert that there is a level of difference.

You say that UW is a school that is just for people who didn't get into nationally elite school, but two of my good friends got into Stanford and both of them chose to go to UW instead (one for bioengineering and one for pre-med), I have another friend who got into Harvard as a senior in high school this year and he seriously contemplated going to UW over Harvard. I just can't accept that there is no difference in difficulty with the disparities that exist in how competitive admissions are at the respective schools and this process of self-selection.

I think WSU is a great school, and I'm not even saying that UW is the better choice, but I do think that it is more academically challenging, and every account I've heard would point to this fact.

My roommate and good friend's brother is going to WSU and is triple majoring in evolutionary biology, neuroscience, and biochemistry and I know he's had a great experience at WSU.

But the University of Washington gets the second most research dollars of any university in the United States other than Hopkins. UW is a nationally renowned school, plenty of people come from the east coast, and there are a ton of international students here. The schools are just different.

I can tell you the mean for the Gen Chem mid-terms last year. You ready? It was 84, 76, 64, 75, 50, and 45. In first-semester O-chem this year, half the students got 65 or lower on both mid-terms.

I'm not saying the courses aren't challenging, they're covering the same material, but I do think that the competition at UW is higher because of the students.

I'm not dissing on WSU, I just think it's inaccurate to say that there is absolutely no difference between the academic caliber of the two.

But do you really think the rest of the state produces inferior idiots?

No I do not. Not at all. Contrary to what you seem to think I don't think my best friend is an idiot.

How much is housing that is within a 10 minute walk to campus? A house, not an apartment, that is a 10 minute walk to campus at WSU costs $300 to $400 a month.

$400-$600

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I'm not anti-WSU. My other friend who was a senior this year, both his brothers went to UW, but he didn't have high enough grades to get in, so he asked me whether he should go to WSU or Western Washington and I told him to go to WSU because it was the better school and I thought he would enjoy it more.

 

[Ryanjingle]

Gotta love these indefensible, matter-of-fact statements from pre-meds. Some of the most arrogant people I've ever met have been from UW.

are you not happy with your life?

 

[Sagebrush]

are you not happy with your life?

Your indignation is about 6 years too late.

 

[Ryanjingle]

Your indignation is about 6 years too late.

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