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klutzy1987

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I feel bad for that girl. Why were you in the pre-med section anyways lol??
 
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DrReo

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Justice for all.

Think about it, would it be as a big of deal if they had a 68 and wanted a 70?

Props to the professor!
 

DRHOYA

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Wow. That girl clearly has bigger problems than the 2pts. It's her mentality, and once the adcom's see that........game over. +pity+
 

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Originally Posted by bka6827
Here is a pre-med dilemma for you all.....

One of my ex-classmates has a 3.93 at an Ivy League university. She is a junior and a biology major/pre-med. Two weeks ago, she received a grade of 96 on her chemistry midterm, but she needed a 98 to receive an A+. She decided to cheat and change a two point question to the correct answer when she received the exam back and submit it for a regrade. Unknown to her, the professor had photocopied the original exam and compared her original to the regrade and they were different. She was immediately placed on academic probation and the honor council decided to give her a harsh punishment to set an example for other students who would consider cheating. She will either:
(A) be expelled or
(B) fail her chemistry class, withdraw from all of her classes this semester, and be suspended for two extra semesters (Spring and Fall 2009)

She still expressed hopes of returning to her original college (if she is not expelled). If she is, she will finish up her undergraduate career at another college. She desperately wants to be a physician and is a deeply empathetic person, but with this large stain on her record, is there ANY REMOTE CHANCE she could get into an allopathic medical school or will this essentially prevent her from that?

WOW! At UVA she would be OUT...no questions asked...no returning...Thomas Jefferson's Honor Code...Her school is being very "Ivy" by allowing her to return after a year! Makes you wonder how many times she cheated and got away with it! Is that 3.93 with cheating or without...my guess is "with"
 

jay47

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No, I disagree. She probably hasn't cheated before. However, clearly her mindset is flawed if she wants an A+ over and A. That is close to disturbing. To cheat for that is even more disturbing.
If I were the professor, I would prolly keep it under wraps, but definitely let her know that I knew. That way, it saves her the embarrasment, but at the same time, I'm willing to bet she never does it again.
 

DrReo

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No, I disagree. She probably hasn't cheated before. However, clearly her mindset is flawed if she wants an A+ over and A. That is close to disturbing. To cheat for that is even more disturbing.
If I were the professor, I would prolly keep it under wraps, but definitely let her know that I knew. That way, it saves her the embarrasment, but at the same time, I'm willing to bet she never does it again.

How do you know? Maybe she was finally caught?

The embarrassment is a good example for others. I work hard for my grades. Obviously there she has books smarts and minimum street smarts! :laugh:.

My grandpa taught pharmacology and he knew every trick in the book. This serves her right.
 

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I love examples like this. Keep them coming..I will turn anyone in that I see cheating like that. I must be a true gunner!
 

chiz2kul

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lol dental pple sneakin over to the cool pre-med sections ;)
And hey pre-med is pre-med/pre-dental, cld be any of you too ;)
 

harrygt

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No, I disagree. She probably hasn't cheated before. However, clearly her mindset is flawed if she wants an A+ over and A. That is close to disturbing. To cheat for that is even more disturbing.
If I were the professor, I would prolly keep it under wraps, but definitely let her know that I knew. That way, it saves her the embarrasment, but at the same time, I'm willing to bet she never does it again.

I would do the same thing, Had I been the prof. I mean, she might not be able to get in med school forever, but that does not sound fair. I mean everyone makes mistakes. The price should not be this big.
 
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UNMorBUST

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The more i think about it, I do feel bad for her. All her aspirations are down the drain. Maybe a card to a psychologist would have sufficed along with a grade being docked. Who knows.
 

DrReo

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I would do the same thing, Had I been the prof. I mean, she might not be able to get in med school forever, but that does not sound fair. I mean everyone makes mistakes. The price should not be this big.

Fair? I think you should read any academic honesty policy! He is abiding by the rules. Granted it's a minor altercation to her grade, she should have reread the academic hoensty rules!
 

harrygt

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Fair? I think you should read any academic honesty policy! He is abiding by the rules. Granted it's a minor altercation to her grade, she should have reread the academic hoensty rules!

Well, when George Bush does not give a damn about the constitution, then I'm sure an academic professor can make exceptions in such a case. She is still to be blamed, but all I meant is that the punishment is very big compared to what she did [considering the fact that she has a 3.93 which means she is a hard-working student]. She might never be able to get into med school because of the report on her transcripts.
 

supraman

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I actually feel bad for the student too. It's obvious shes a hard worker, and really wanted to be the best, but crossed the line. A cheater will never have close to her GPA of 3.9X
 

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Well, when George Bush does not give a damn about the constitution, then I'm sure an academic professor can make exceptions in such a case. She is still to be blamed, but all I meant is that the punishment is very big compared to what she did [considering the fact that she has a 3.93 which means she is a hard-working student]. She might never be able to get into med school because of the report on her transcripts.


wow, it takes true genius to use A) George Bush or B) Hitler in an internet conversation.

As for the cheater,
she should not be allowed to enter health care. Someone fudging 2 points to PASS a class I could understand (not condone, but understand).

Someone who would cheat for 2 points for a A to A+, must be so egotistical they should not be allowed to treat patients.
 

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If she cheated her way to a 3.9+ there would be a good chance of her getting caught in her 2+ years of school.

A chance yes, a good chance ehhh I dont know about that. I think it would be very easy to cheat through a ton of classes. I have not done any of it but I certainly have had ideas where it would be extremely easy. Of course it depends on the class but there are many many easy ways to cheat. It is an honor system and I think it is easy to cheat nobody is watching you every second.
 
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harrygt

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A chance yes, a good chance ehhh I dont know about that. I think it would be very easy to cheat through a ton of classes. I have not done any of it but I certainly have had ideas where it would be extremely easy. Of course it depends on the class but there are many many easy ways to cheat. It is an honor system and I think it is easy to cheat nobody is watching you every second.

Come on Andrew, tell us some of your techniques. Lol.
 

Andrew324

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Come on Andrew, tell us some of your techniques. Lol.

Ha :), its more of a seeing flaws in the system. The same way one walks into a store and goes geez you could steal that so easy. By steal I dont mean put it in your pocket, I mean the warrenty/return/blah blah is structured in such a way that you can get things with virtually no risk.

Same with classes, when you understand the policies and structure of the class its very easy to see flaws in the system that can be taken advantage of with little to no risk. I will not give anyone any pointers but thats the strategy so I think one could skate through quite easily if they wanted.
 

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wow, it takes true genius to use A) George Bush or B) Hitler in an internet conversation.

As for the cheater,
she should not be allowed to enter health care. Someone fudging 2 points to PASS a class I could understand (not condone, but understand).

Someone who would cheat for 2 points for a A to A+, must be so egotistical they should not be allowed to treat patients.

If your whole life you are an A student only to find out that an A+ exists in college, wouldn't you find yourself bored with A's and striving for A+? YES it is extreme..but aren't we always striving for more? The difference between cheating 2 pts to pass or fail in a course is a bigger problem in my view. The difference between an A and an A+ (although a little obsessive compulsive) is not as big of an injustice. I still think she should fail the course and have a little to no shot at med school.
 

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If your whole life you are an A student only to find out that an A+ exists in college, wouldn't you find yourself bored with A's and striving for A+? YES it is extreme..but aren't we always striving for more? The difference between cheating 2 pts to pass or fail in a course is a bigger problem in my view. The difference between an A and an A+ (although a little obsessive compulsive) is not as big of an injustice. I still think she should fail the course and have a little to no shot at med school.


spoken like a predent.
 

UNMorBUST

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If your whole life you are an A student only to find out that an A+ exists in college, wouldn't you find yourself bored with A's and striving for A+? YES it is extreme..but aren't we always striving for more? The difference between cheating 2 pts to pass or fail in a course is a bigger problem in my view. The difference between an A and an A+ (although a little obsessive compulsive) is not as big of an injustice. I still think she should fail the course and have a little to no shot at med school.
Gunner perhaps:D.
 

dentalmagnet

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I love examples like this. Keep them coming..I will turn anyone in that I see cheating like that. I must be a true gunner!

ohh UNMorBUST scroll up a bit..^^ I already admitted to being a gunner. I'm trying to calm it down lately though. You know..think about the consequences before pullin the trigger.
 

Lopyswine

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ohh UNMorBUST scroll up a bit..^^ I already admitted to being a gunner. I'm trying to calm it down lately though. You know..think about the consequences before pullin the trigger.


most dental school classes are around 50 students. It will be a LONG LONG 4 years if you piss off your class with an uber gunner attitude.
 

dentalmagnet

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most dental school classes are around 50 students. It will be a LONG LONG 4 years if you piss off your class with an uber gunner attitude.

I'm really not that bad. I do try really hard. But I don't openly share my grades unless I am asked. I am way more open about sharing my grades online because it's anonymous. Also, I am a very social person and never had a hard time getting along with people all the way for Kindy to now. I don't think I'll have a problem. Especially since there will be a lot of smart people in dental school (if I get in) and I will likely not feel like the classes are easy. I am a little bit of a gunner..but in the sense that B's aren't good enough and all that crap. As long as I get my A, I don't care if it's the highest..although I like it when it is. But who doesn't?
 
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Lopyswine

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I'm really not that bad. I do try really hard. But I don't openly share my grades unless I am asked. I am way more open about sharing my grades online because it's anonymous. Also, I am a very social person and never had a hard time getting along with people all the way for Kindy to now. I don't think I'll have a problem. Especially since there will be a lot of smart people in dental school (if I get in) and I will likely not feel like the classes are easy. I am a little bit of a gunner..but in the sense that B's aren't good enough and all that crap. As long as I get my A, I don't care if it's the highest..although I like it when it is. But who doesn't?


B's are anything but crap in dental school.
 

dentalmagnet

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B's are anything but crap in dental school.

I didn't say they were crap in dental school. They aren't crap in undergrad. But I do not want them. I won't know how hard dental school is until I get there. That's if I get there of course.
 

supraman

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my gunner radar is picking up a signal now
 

Isradoc1983

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wow some people here amaze me. If you'd be a professor would you really ruin someones life/ future b/c he cheated on your exam? wouldn't a conversation be enough? with a cheating on her record she'll never be able to get into med school.....

I am not the one who would cheat, but comeon the guy probably ruined her future.... I will be the first who would follow the rules but sometimes you have to think what the consequences will be and if its really worth to screw someone that bad.
 

aabdoulin

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Anyone willing to argue over 2 points when the grade difference is between an A and an A+ has some serious issues. Even with the A, her GPA would have gone up and if she's that smart, her MCAT score would probably be really high as well. To me, she is either VERY greedy or very stupid to not realize what she was risking over 2 points.
 

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wow some people here amaze me. If you'd be a professor would you really ruin someones life/ future b/c he cheated on your exam? wouldn't a conversation be enough? with a cheating on her record she'll never be able to get into med school.....

I am not the one who would cheat, but comeon the guy probably ruined her future.... I will be the first who would follow the rules but sometimes you have to think what the consequences will be and if its really worth to screw someone that bad.

According to some people, that student should not pass by 100 miles of any hospital, health care environment, and medical school in future.
 

DrReo

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wow some people here amaze me. If you'd be a professor would you really ruin someones life/ future b/c he cheated on your exam? wouldn't a conversation be enough? with a cheating on her record she'll never be able to get into med school.....

I am not the one who would cheat, but comeon the guy probably ruined her future.... I will be the first who would follow the rules but sometimes you have to think what the consequences will be and if its really worth to screw someone that bad.

She ruined her future. He's just following the rule.


She lied, cheat, dishonest to her professor and other students.

Gotta weed them out some how!
 

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Heres a post of the from 2006 from the "same" person....looks like 2 years has passed and he/she still hasnt got into med. school...dang that sucks :laugh:

I guess moral of the story....once a cheater, always a cheater! :thumbup:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=271360

Holy crap!!! That's even more disturbing. This girl cheated, got caught, then transferred is (was) now trying to lie on her apps to med school. Guess she didn't learn her lesson. That is scary!

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=3927626#post3927626
 

HopefullPreD

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Hi guys im new to this but i was reading this thread and got really scared, so i created a profile to ask for opinion on my similar situation. Let me start off by saying that i have never ever cheated in any test or tried altering my grade in any way ever!!
Also, what has happened to me is not on my permanent record, i was just on "probation" for 1 semester. In the AADSAS app it says "Have you ever been dismissed, expelled, found to have violated an honor code, disqualified, suspended, put on probation, or otherwise been subject to disciplinary action at any college/university in connection to misconduct" i said yes because i did not want to lie. here is the explanation i wrote and this is 100% honest.
[SIZE=-1]"In fall of 2005 one of the students at SFSU offered to enroll me into an introductory Biology class I needed, without a wait list.Due to numerous failed attempts to enroll in the class,I accepted without thinking.I realized later how unfair this was to the other students and that I should have waited in line just like everybody else. I was put probation for one semester and wrote a letter of apology to the school. This was the first(and last) time that I have done anything like this and from this experience I learned a valuable lesson: there are no shortcuts on life. I will never be dishonest again.[/SIZE]"
I would have written more but they give you limited space. I have good GPA and DAT, great LORs, lots& LOTS of shadowing, assisting, research and other ECs and have not heard from the 15 schools that i applied to in August- im wondering that it is for this reason and i can say goodbye to D school because of this? I was much younger and irresponsible back then. I went to a state school, which is overpacked with students and was not able to get into my intro bio class which is pre-req for every upper division class for a lot of semesters thats y i did what i did. i feel horrible to this day but whats done is done... please let me know what you think..
:scared:
 

mddang

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GOT WHAT SHE DESERVED!!!

I don't want any cheaters w/ their hand down my pants telling me to turn my head to the side and cough...

WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY'LL DO WHEN THEY HAVE YOUR GOODS IN THEIR POSSESSION?!
 

that guy

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Hi guys im new to this but i was reading this thread and got really scared, so i created a profile to ask for opinion on my similar situation. Let me start off by saying that i have never ever cheated in any test or tried altering my grade in any way ever!!
Also, what has happened to me is not on my permanent record, i was just on "probation" for 1 semester. In the AADSAS app it says "Have you ever been dismissed, expelled, found to have violated an honor code, disqualified, suspended, put on probation, or otherwise been subject to disciplinary action at any college/university in connection to misconduct" i said yes because i did not want to lie. here is the explanation i wrote and this is 100% honest.
[SIZE=-1]"In fall of 2005 one of the students at SFSU offered to enroll me into an introductory Biology class I needed, without a wait list.Due to numerous failed attempts to enroll in the class,I accepted without thinking.I realized later how unfair this was to the other students and that I should have waited in line just like everybody else. I was put probation for one semester and wrote a letter of apology to the school. This was the first(and last) time that I have done anything like this and from this experience I learned a valuable lesson: there are no shortcuts on life. I will never be dishonest again.[/SIZE]"
I would have written more but they give you limited space. I have good GPA and DAT, great LORs, lots& LOTS of shadowing, assisting, research and other ECs and have not heard from the 15 schools that i applied to in August- im wondering that it is for this reason and i can say goodbye to D school because of this? I was much younger and irresponsible back then. I went to a state school, which is overpacked with students and was not able to get into my intro bio class which is pre-req for every upper division class for a lot of semesters thats y i did what i did. i feel horrible to this day but whats done is done... please let me know what you think..
:scared:

that is a terrible thing to do. you CUT in line!!? no, youll be fine.
 

Isradoc1983

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look i never said that what she did was right or that I agree with her, but that doesn't mean that the prof' had to go so far as possibly ruining her future/ carreer. I def' don't think that b/c of a small mistake she won't be able to become a doctor. I had a similar thing in undergrad. A guy who i worked in with lab asked to get the lab results as he lost them. I didn't have the excel so I gave him my lab report. The idiot copied it word by word... lol ... smart? no fair? no.... he got caught ( of course) but the prof was nice enough to understand that if she'll disclose it he might get expelled . So, she didn't ruing his future but he didn't get a grade on this lab report. I think its less extreme than to screw some1 over as this girl was b/c of 2 points
 
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