preclinical gunners = gunners in ms3 and ms4?

[missmod]

Two sets of exams have rolled around at our school already and now everybody's crazy studying side is starting to come out. There are definitely people out there with all the bad traits of the so called gunner who love to quiz themselves and others on random little anatomy facts... or whatever.

What are these people like in years 3 and 4? Someone who's so good at studying at the library a lot and memorizing details in books is not necessarily someone who will be good when it comes to logical thinking and good doctoring.

It would give me a little twinge of satisfaction if some ms3 and 4's could tell me that some of these gunners will get a little bit of ego-deflation once they hit clinical years. Please tell me there are residents and attendings out there who will put them in their place... Then again, something tells me that they will find ways to screw over people in the hospital as well..........

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[TTSD]

That's not a gunner trait. Me and my friends love to quiz each other all the time to keep each other on the ball. The more you know, the better. During anatomy lab, all of a sudden we'll start firing off biochem questions just to keep things mixed up. It's good practice to see where you stand, learn something new, and just keep your mind flexible.

A gunner are those little dicks always comparing scores and trying to sabotage you.

 

[doc05]

dude, stop complaining and try to enjoy your life.

 

[captbadass]

i think the gunner term just gets thrown around this forum and everybody has a different idea of what a real gunner is. personally, i dont see anything wrong with studying hard and working diligently to learn the material. i agree with the previous poster that gunners are out to sabotage and do well at all costs. of course, they have other traits too, but ill just leave it at that since one could probably write a textbook on gunners.

i think the real ahole, annoying, no social life, butt clowns get put in their place with certain types of attendings. although, i've noticed many attendings at university hospitals tend to have the same traits as those annoying students, and they might fit in just perfectly with these types.

 

[BenYossarian]

dude, stop complaining and try to enjoy your life.

THANK YOU! YES!

 

[Green912]

Study for years 1-2--->take step 1-->study for years 3-4-->take boards-->study during residency-->take boards----->stop worrying about other people.

"hard" is relative for everyone.

 

[Argonaut]

I think I'd say that there are two types of "A" students. There are the ones who study, quietly make good grades, and spend their weekends partying, shopping, etc. The ones you'd never expect to be even remotely brainy at all. And there are the crazies that have been described in this thread. The guys and gals who are "loud" about how hard-core they are and are openly competitive. I'd consider only the 2nd group to be gunners. In my class, I know a few students who make A's but couldn't really give a **** about it. Go figure.

 

[TTSD]

I think I'd say that there are two types of "A" students. There are the ones who study, quietly make good grades, and spend their weekends partying, shopping, etc. The ones you'd never expect to be even remotely brainy at all. And there are the crazies that have been described in this thread. The guys and gals who are "loud" about how hard-core they are and are openly competitive. I'd consider only the 2nd group to be gunners. In my class, I know a few students who make A's but couldn't really give a **** about it. Go figure.

I don't completely agree. People who make A's are from the full broad spectrum of students.

As for the OP's original line of thinking, I'm actually getting quite sick of those types of statements, "people who are book-smart cannot necessarily be people-smart either." I think those statements are just a way of making people feel better thinking, "at least I have something up on them that'll make ME the better doctor." Let's face it, there are going to be people out there who are better all around than you are. And with 6 and some billion people, there are probably going to be a lot of them.

Stop hating, and do your own damn best.

 

[gioia]

There are 'sensory' learners, who do well from books and some forms of standardized tests and there are 'intuitive' learners who look at the big picture and learn by putting facts into a schema.

The former tend to nail the first year of classes. The latter tend to flourish in case studies...

Regardless the learning style, years one and two are much different than years three and four. To answer what I think you may be asking: yes, people who didn't care for years 1 and 2 often prefer years 3 and 4.

Obnoxios exist everywhere: academia, Walmart, the gas station... just believe in yourself.

 

[Neuronix]

Just wait till that H grade kicks in... It'll probably get much worse.

 

[tupac_don]

I think I'd say that there are two types of "A" students. There are the ones who study, quietly make good grades, and spend their weekends partying, shopping, etc. The ones you'd never expect to be even remotely brainy at all. And there are the crazies that have been described in this thread. The guys and gals who are "loud" about how hard-core they are and are openly competitive. I'd consider only the 2nd group to be gunners. In my class, I know a few students who make A's but couldn't really give a **** about it. Go figure.

I think you are confused. Yes you are correct about the two types of A students. However, I disagree that the group that parties and stuff could give a "shait" about it as you put it. The difference b/w these guys and the hardcore ones is that the hardcore ones don't care how others perceive them. And are outright competitive. The ones that get good grades but "have a life", do care very much about grades, but they try to juggle other stuff and brush it off like they don't care. B/c they don't want to be pigeonholed as a gunner. Also I had a friend who would say to others oh I don't do stuff and get good grades, but he studied like a mutt. Although he strategically went out at times and so it was perceived that he didn't study all the time.

 

[missmod]

I don't completely agree. People who make A's are from the full broad spectrum of students.

As for the OP's original line of thinking, I'm actually getting quite sick of those types of statements, "people who are book-smart cannot necessarily be people-smart either." I think those statements are just a way of making people feel better thinking, "at least I have something up on them that'll make ME the better doctor." Let's face it, there are going to be people out there who are better all around than you are. And with 6 and some billion people, there are probably going to be a lot of them.

Stop hating, and do your own damn best.

There are a lot of people in my class who are incredibly smart and normal as well and i respect them, have nothing against them, and wish the best for them. but there are also people out there who are mean spirited about it and others whose personality makes you wonder why they are in a service based profession at all. i'm not judging these people from what grades they get, but from the way they treat other students dismissively, stress people out, and are stingy with information (and we are still pass/fail this semester!).

It just disturbs me to think that if these students do well in years 3 and 4 without anything or anyone forcing them to get an attitude adjustment, they will be the "successful" doctors who will be treating my parents and the rest of my family.

 

[OTheHorror]

I don't completely agree. People who make A's are from the full broad spectrum of students.

As for the OP's original line of thinking, I'm actually getting quite sick of those types of statements, "people who are book-smart cannot necessarily be people-smart either." I think those statements are just a way of making people feel better thinking, "at least I have something up on them that'll make ME the better doctor." Let's face it, there are going to be people out there who are better all around than you are. And with 6 and some billion people, there are probably going to be a lot of them.

Stop hating, and do your own damn best.

I think this was a very good post. A lot of people make themselves feel better by generalizing faults in those with higher grades. Just a few weeks ago in anatomy, some of the members in my group were saying that they didn't care that they didn't do relaly great on the MCAT because "at least they can talk to their patients," as if MCAT performance is inversely related to one's ability to communicate. People like this get together and trash those that might be "smarter" just as some kind of excuse for their own lackings.

 

[thackl]

If you get A's, your classmates will call you a gunner regardless of your outward behavior. I did well on the first round of tests and should have just kept it to myself when asked. I'm only interested in high-passing. For 2nd round I worked even less..... even went car shopping for 10hrs with my wife the day before head/neck exam (Yukon SLT ). Interesingly, I was so relaxed for that test, I probably did better than if I had stayed home and studied all day...... there might be something to this

Anyway, just do your best and be happy with it. Once resolved to this, you will find more humor than than disgust in those who do nothing but study and constanly brag about it. You'll be 10x more effective if you are ballanced and happy anyway.

 

[rackd8ball]

i dont see why people flame the OP when she brings up serious complaints about those annoyinig kids that we all know about in each of our classes. when was that ever a crime? why don't you guys all lighten up and lay off of the OP?

What's even worse is that you're all telling her to "chill out and have fun" when some of you sit around and post 1000's of messages on SDN? Very cool guys, very cool.

go ahead and flame me. see if i either (1) care or (2) check this thread again to read them.

 

[omarsaleh66]

In all honesty, we need gunners...

I dont want any of u nice people with social skills to be doing a triple bypass surgery on my fat ass when Im forty. I want some AOA, nerdy, 270 USMLE doctor to do it. I know my limitations, and instead of hating on the overachievers, I know Im gonna need them in about 20 years. hahah

later

Omar

 

[Gut Shot]

I want some AOA, nerdy, 270 USMLE doctor to do it.

Hmmm, I'll take the surgeon with the better track record at surgery over the guy with the highest standardized test scores.

Incidentally, one definition of a gunner is someone who takes notes when the professor enters the classroom and says "good morning."

 

[Philo Beddo]

There's a hilarious critique of gunners at

http://www.hippocritis.com/november04/election.htm

Its done as a gunner and a frat boy competing for Medical School Class President. Fake attack ads and the works. Swank.

Philo

 

[TOMFighter]

In all honesty, we need gunners...

I dont want any of u nice people with social skills to be doing a triple bypass surgery on my fat ass when Im forty. I want some AOA, nerdy, 270 USMLE doctor to do it. I know my limitations, and instead of hating on the overachievers, I know Im gonna need them in about 20 years. hahah

later

Omar

This post is ****ing awesome. Thank you for that.

Oh, we need someone who can talk to patients. Bull ****. They're called nurses. doctors make decisions.

 

[ZagDoc]

In all honesty, we need gunners...

I dont want any of u nice people with social skills to be doing a triple bypass surgery on my fat ass when Im forty. I want some AOA, nerdy, 270 USMLE doctor to do it. I know my limitations, and instead of hating on the overachievers, I know Im gonna need them in about 20 years. hahah

later

Omar

It's been routinely demonstrated, especially in surgery, that USMLE scores do not correlate to technical proficiency.

Some people are just savants when it comes to surgery and can visualize spaces intuitively several steps ahead of where they are currently at. The rest of us just work our a&&es off to simply get "good."

The guy who socially isolated himself from his fellow classmates and the real world during medical school is NOT going to be a good surgeon or physician because of it. The guy who works his butt off in residency will. Do those two sometimes correlate together? Sure, anecdotally. But I hate this preconception that everyone touts around that you have to be an a**hole in order to be a great physician.

You have to work hard to be a great physician. You don't have to be an a**hole about how hard you work.

Oh and to the OP's question... yes, generally pre-clinical gunners continue their gunnery into 3rd and 4th year, except its much more malicious. Getting shown up on rounds, not getting pages about interesting cases, its much more damaging to you due to the subjective mature of clinical evals. Thankfully some attendings can smell a gunner from 3 halls down.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

Two sets of exams have rolled around at our school already and now everybody's crazy studying side is starting to come out. There are definitely people out there with all the bad traits of the so called gunner who love to quiz themselves and others on random little anatomy facts... or whatever.

What are these people like in years 3 and 4? Someone who's so good at studying at the library a lot and memorizing details in books is not necessarily someone who will be good when it comes to logical thinking and good doctoring.

It would give me a little twinge of satisfaction if some ms3 and 4's could tell me that some of these gunners will get a little bit of ego-deflation once they hit clinical years. Please tell me there are residents and attendings out there who will put them in their place... Then again, something tells me that they will find ways to screw over people in the hospital as well..........

You are partially correct. However you will find that most of the people who do awesome in M1/2/Step1 are also stars on rotations.

I'll never forget a conversation I had with a surgery resident at a bar. There are two guys in my class who were by far and away the academic superstars of years 1/2. I'm not going to say they were mean or insulting, but they were definitely not above showing you up in the anatomy lab or letting you know they had crushed a test. Nobody hated them, but they also weren't first on anyone's list of people to go bar hopping with. Anyway, back to the surgery resident. She told me that these two were by far and away the best students she had worked with in our class. Efficient, pleasant if not friendly, good with patients, punctual, logical etc etc etc.

n=2, but in my mind preclinical success (usually) = clinical success.

 

[bcat85]

I tend to believe that "gunners" are more of an apocryphal group of individuals than anything. I have no problem with someone who studies hard and doesn't mind if other people observe that he studies hard, but I wouldn't imagine that there are that many students who actually try to sabotage others (the real def. of a gunner).

 

[MossPoh]

i dont see why people flame the OP when she brings up serious complaints about those annoyinig kids that we all know about in each of our classes. when was that ever a crime? why don't you guys all lighten up and lay off of the OP?

What's even worse is that you're all telling her to "chill out and have fun" when some of you sit around and post 1000's of messages on SDN? Very cool guys, very cool.

go ahead and flame me. see if i either (1) care or (2) check this thread again to read them.

What?

I'm not flaming you but I don't see how that is a valid point in any manner. So, sitting around browsing the internet isn't chilling out? Damn, I guess I work way too much then.

 

[Law2Doc]

I tend to believe that "gunners" are more of an apocryphal group of individuals than anything. I have no problem with someone who studies hard and doesn't mind if other people observe that he studies hard, but I wouldn't imagine that there are that many students who actually try to sabotage others (the real def. of a gunner).

You guys are responding to a 4 year old thread.

A gunner is not someone who studies hard and does well. A gunner is someone who compromises relationships to get ahead. The dude who tries to psych people out, or waste their time, or is obsessively focused on how others are doing, or even sabotages.

As for the original question, in the clinical years, a gunner is someone who jumps in on all the pimp questions directed toward you and never gives you a chance to answer, who corrects you in front of attendings to make you look bad, who takes credit for things you both did, and/or who volunteers you for things you would just as soon let pass ("I think X should take the next patient because I already had a patient with TB last week".)

 

[vtucci]

You guys are responding to a 4 year old thread.

A gunner is not someone who studies hard and does well. A gunner is someone who compromises relationships to get ahead. The dude who tries to psych people out, or waste their time, or is obsessively focused on how others are doing, or even sabotages.

As for the original question, in the clinical years, a gunner is someone who jumps in on all the pimp questions directed toward you and never gives you a chance to answer, who corrects you in front of attendings to make you look bad, who takes credit for things you both did, and/or who volunteers you for things you would just as soon let pass ("I think X should take the next patient because I already had a patient with TB last week".)

I agree with Law2Doc. There are plenty of people who work hard and do well and are not out to make themselves look better by sabotaging their classmates. Most people who get As across the board know better than to advertise this fact and make those students who do not acheive this success feel bad. How many students are really upset when the industrious hardworking colleagues from MS1 and MS2 does well in the clinical years? Can we say no one!

However, the student from MS1 and MS2 who did well and let everyone know how much "smarter" they are than the rest of us mere mortals, who continuously asked esoteric questions of the professors during classtime to demonstrate how much they knew (and to hear themselves talk) and who refused to help their struggling classmates during the preclinical years (even when directly asked for help), these are the people most of us enjoy seeing put in their place. No one likes a tool. Not the residents, attendings, staff (except maybe the few likeminded souls out there).

Amory- some but not all of the superstars in MS3 and MS4 were stars in the preclinical years. Some of the superstars were those middle-of-the-road students and even some of the "weaker" academically in the preclinical years. There can be role reversals between the "top" and "bottom" of the class. For example, knowing the exact number of nanometers of an a-d nerve fiber while making a difference in a neuroanatomy grade is generally not as important from a clinical perspective. Maybe that weaker student focused on clinical things instead of the often useless focus of the PhD lecturer. Or maybe that weaker person has a better natural rapport with patients. I agree that not all weaker MS1/2 students will blossom into strong clinicians. Indeed, some will remain in the bottom tier throughout.

OTheHorror and TTSD- getting "A"s in preclinical years does not mean that you are smarter than your classmates. More often than not, those who do well, have a work ethic and have a better foundation than those who do not. How many students have had the material in one format or another before? Many students in my class had anatomy and physiology and biochem and molecular bio prior to MS1. We had one student who dissected 18 cadavers and had a masters in anatomy. Do you really think the course was the same for him as for the rest of us? As a result, they had heard many of the things presented in our classes at least once before (maybe not at the same pace but heard nonetheless). It is a major advantage to have a familiarity with the material. Even if an undergrad anatomy course is not as rigorous as the med school counterpart, you will have heard the terms and it will not be like a foreign language to you. Everything is not equal in terms of grading and class rank.

I consider MS3 and MS4 the great equalizer because that is new to virtually everyone. It is then a much fairer estimation of people natural abilities and work ethics.

 

[MossPoh]

damnit. Those keep getting me. That is like the 3rd time this week.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

Amory- some but not all of the superstars in MS3 and MS4 were stars in the preclinical years. Some of the superstars were those middle-of-the-road students and even some of the "weaker" academically in the preclinical years. There can be role reversals between the "top" and "bottom" of the class. For example, knowing the exact number of nanometers of an a-d nerve fiber while making a difference in a neuroanatomy grade is generally not as important from a clinical perspective. Maybe that weaker student focused on clinical things instead of the often useless focus of the PhD lecturer. Or maybe that weaker person has a better natural rapport with patients. I agree that not all weaker MS1/2 students will blossom into strong clinicians. Indeed, some will remain in the bottom tier throughout.

I don't think you are really disagreeing with me, but I think you would find this top/bottom shifting concept to be extremely rare if it were ever studied.

I also don't think that any significant number of "weaker" preclinical students are "weaker" because they spend so much time focusing on clinical information.

Plus it's really hard for us as medical students to guage how good we are clinically. I think there are a number of med students who mistakenly think that they are really good because they get along with everyone, have a nice rapport with patients, etc etc. Since we are asked to do so little thinking during M3/4 it's a very imperfect time to evaluate our clinical skills. In the end it all comes down to ego and very few of us type-A medical folk are willing to admit our weaknesses.

For evidence towards my argument cruise the Allo/ClinRot forums for perennial threads about how so-and-so failed a clerkship but it was totally unfair and the attending was a jerk and hated me and I know so much but just get nervous under pressure and I was reading a ton and working my butt off and I'm actually really good as I've been told by 2 residents on a totally unrelated service but I should have got honors and it was totally unfair.

 

[bcat85]

I agree with Law2Doc.

I second

 

[vtucci]

I don't think you are really disagreeing with me, but I think you would find this top/bottom shifting concept to be extremely rare if it were ever studied.

I also don't think that any significant number of "weaker" preclinical students are "weaker" because they spend so much time focusing on clinical information.

Plus it's really hard for us as medical students to guage how good we are clinically. I think there are a number of med students who mistakenly think that they are really good because they get along with everyone, have a nice rapport with patients, etc etc. Since we are asked to do so little thinking during M3/4 it's a very imperfect time to evaluate our clinical skills. In the end it all comes down to ego and very few of us type-A medical folk are willing to admit our weaknesses.

For evidence towards my argument cruise the Allo/ClinRot forums for perennial threads about how so-and-so failed a clerkship but it was totally unfair and the attending was a jerk and hated me and I know so much but just get nervous under pressure and I was reading a ton and working my butt off and I'm actually really good as I've been told by 2 residents on a totally unrelated service but I should have got honors and it was totally unfair.

Amory, I agree that it is not common practice for the top and bottom to switch places in MS3. However, such cases do occur and I think it is good for those examples to be shared and for students who struggled in MS1/2 to realize that MS3 is a brand new day. These stories can serve as an inspiration to others and that is why they are often touted on SDN. Perhaps they have skill sets (like grace under pressure) that will really serve them well in MS3. Most of us are type A personalities and have succeeded at everything we have tried. It is humbling to do poorly in an academic setting regardless of circumstance.

Consider me an n=1. I focused almost exclusively on clinical information in my preclinical years with disasterous results in MS1 (thankfully, the shelf exams which were much more clinically based than the homegrown exams saved me from having to repeat the year). I had this crazy notion that clinical information was the most important thing to know for my medical practice and the minutae was completely irrelevant. That is what can happen to you when you are out of school for several years and working in the real world. I also have a hard time memorizing random facts without understanding the need to know such information- give me the context and I will remember the information. Result, MS1 was a nightmare. MS2 was better with path and micro taking center stage. Thank God for the clinical years. Why couldn't I have just skipped to this?

I do not agree that medical students are not asked to think during MS3 and MS4. This may be medical school and attending specific. At USF, we are expected to have well-thought out ddx, assessments and plans (e.g., even being able to discuss whether the team should change an antibiotic class, dose, route of administration etc). Maybe this distinguishes the honors students from those that pass but I have always considered the patients assigned to me as my patients and have researched and done everything I would if alone practicing in the middle of God's Country (it is nice to have back up in the form of an attending though in case we are wrong). I feel personal responsibility for them. I am also not afraid to venture out there on a limb. I would rather have it cut out from me now than when I am alone without back up.

The path to wisdom is self-reflection and we should always be cognizant of our areas of weakness and areas of strength. When things play to my strengths, I try to help those who are struggling and hope they pass it on.

 

[Blesbok]

Why the hell is everyone here so concerned with people that work harder than them? If you want to play, you have to pay. The TS is the exact definition of a gunner. She wants to see other people fail for personal gain and satisfaction. Pitiful...

 

[AmoryBlaine]

Amory, I agree that it is not common practice for the top and bottom to switch places in MS3. However, such cases do occur and I think it is good for those examples to be shared and for students who struggled in MS1/2 to realize that MS3 is a brand new day. These stories can serve as an inspiration to others and that is why they are often touted on SDN. Perhaps they have skill sets (like grace under pressure) that will really serve them well in MS3. Most of us are type A personalities and have succeeded at everything we have tried. It is humbling to do poorly in an academic setting regardless of circumstance.

Consider me an n=1. I focused almost exclusively on clinical information in my preclinical years with disasterous results in MS1 (thankfully, the shelf exams which were much more clinically based than the homegrown exams saved me from having to repeat the year). I had this crazy notion that clinical information was the most important thing to know for my medical practice and the minutae was completely irrelevant. That is what can happen to you when you are out of school for several years and working in the real world. I also have a hard time memorizing random facts without understanding the need to know such information- give me the context and I will remember the information. Result, MS1 was a nightmare. MS2 was better with path and micro taking center stage. Thank God for the clinical years. Why couldn't I have just skipped to this?

I do not agree that medical students are not asked to think during MS3 and MS4. This may be medical school and attending specific. At USF, we are expected to have well-thought out ddx, assessments and plans (e.g., even being able to discuss whether the team should change an antibiotic class, dose, route of administration etc). Maybe this distinguishes the honors students from those that pass but I have always considered the patients assigned to me as my patients and have researched and done everything I would if alone practicing in the middle of God's Country (it is nice to have back up in the form of an attending though in case we are wrong). I feel personal responsibility for them. I am also not afraid to venture out there on a limb. I would rather have it cut out from me now than when I am alone without back up.

The path to wisdom is self-reflection and we should always be cognizant of our areas of weakness and areas of strength. When things play to my strengths, I try to help those who are struggling and hope they pass it on.

I don't understand what you mean by that. Does that mean that you just skipped over certain slides because you thought they weren't clinically relevant? How could you have had that insight as an M1?

Plus this whole concept of what is "clinically relevant" is pretty tricky. I don't think there was a day of Physiology that wasn't clinically relevant. If you are even considering Gen Surg than anatomy is clinically relevant from start to finish. Hell some people go into academic Peds when all those awful biochemical pathways and embryological twists and turns become hugely relevant.

 

[DrDre311]

I don't understand what you mean by that. Does that mean that you just skipped over certain slides because you thought they weren't clinically relevant? How could you have had that insight as an M1?

Plus this whole concept of what is "clinically relevant" is pretty tricky. I don't think there was a day of Physiology that wasn't clinically relevant. If you are even considering Gen Surg than anatomy is clinically relevant from start to finish. Hell some people go into academic Peds when all those awful biochemical pathways and embryological twists and turns become hugely relevant.

I got a little sick when I read that.

Also, I gunned a little bit. Can't lie. It works like this: I studied pretty hard and memorized a bunch of **** in my preclinical years, and killed a few tests. Then, in the clinical years, I memorized some more crap, spent a lot of time in the hospital, gave a few presentations, and was nice to people--in addition to killing some more tests. That's what closet gunners do, and why we stay at the top. It really wasn't all that difficult.

 

[Its_MurDAH]

I got a little sick when I read that.

Also, I gunned a little bit. Can't lie. It works like this: I studied pretty hard and memorized a bunch of **** in my preclinical years, and killed a few tests. Then, in the clinical years, I memorized some more crap, spent a lot of time in the hospital, gave a few presentations, and was nice to people--in addition to killing some more tests. That's what closet gunners do, and why we stay at the top. It really wasn't all that difficult.

I keep my hand on my goljan cuz they got me on the run, now i'm back in the classroom waitin on the outcome

 

[tncekm]

Although he strategically went out at times and so it was perceived that he didn't study all the time.

These people are the most irritating to me. Its just insane to me how someone feels they have to bust their ass and then say "meh, I didn't really study".

 

[Law2Doc]

Also, I gunned a little bit. Can't lie. It works like this: I studied pretty hard and memorized a bunch of **** in my preclinical years, and killed a few tests. Then, in the clinical years, I memorized some more crap, spent a lot of time in the hospital, gave a few presentations, and was nice to people--in addition to killing some more tests. That's what closet gunners do, and why we stay at the top. It really wasn't all that difficult.

You are not using an accurate definition of gunner. Again a gunner isn't someone who studies hard and kills tests. It might be someone who kills folks who study hard. It requires some overt action which is a detriment to others. meaning you study hard but then you psych out the competition. A closet gunner is just a gunner who hasn't gotten "outed" yet. They don't stay on the top through brains. they stay on the top by keeping smarter folks at the bottom. The definition of a gunner is really that old joke about two campers who come across a bear. A gunner knows he doesn't have to outrun the bear. He just has to outrun the other camper, maybe trip him up. A closet gunner might simply spray the other camper with honey ahead of time.

 

[45408]

You are not using an accurate definition of gunner. Again a gunner isn't someone who studies hard and kills tests. It might be someone who kills folks who study hard. It requires some overt action which is a detriment to others. meaning you study hard but then you psych out the competition. A closet gunner is just a gunner who hasn't gotten "outed" yet. They don't stay on the top through brains. they stay on the top by keeping smarter folks at the bottom. The definition of a gunner is really that old joke about two campers who come across a bear. A gunner knows he doesn't have to outrun the bear. He just has to outrun the other camper, maybe trip him up. A closet gunner might simply spray the other camper with honey ahead of time.

Been working on those analogies for a while?

 

[DrDre311]

You are not using an accurate definition of gunner. Again a gunner isn't someone who studies hard and kills tests. It might be someone who kills folks who study hard. It requires some overt action which is a detriment to others. meaning you study hard but then you psych out the competition. A closet gunner is just a gunner who hasn't gotten "outed" yet. They don't stay on the top through brains. they stay on the top by keeping smarter folks at the bottom. The definition of a gunner is really that old joke about two campers who come across a bear. A gunner knows he doesn't have to outrun the bear. He just has to outrun the other camper, maybe trip him up. A closet gunner might simply spray the other camper with honey ahead of time.

That's your definition. Maybe not everybody else's. That said, I think it's a good one. Although I was aggressive as a med student in terms of getting procedures/cases/patients, I never tried to make other people look bad.

 

[Blesbok]

That's your definition. Maybe not everybody else's. That said, I think it's a good one. Although I was aggressive as a med student in terms of getting procedures/cases/patients, I never tried to make other people look bad.

The term gunner refers to gunning down those around you.

 

[DrDre311]

The term gunner refers to gunning down those around you.

Many people apply the term in a derisive manner to those at the top of their medical school classes, regardless of whether those people actively try to make themselves look better than their peers. But I do like the more specific definition better, the one with the connotation of being a tool.

 

[tncekm]

Many people apply the term in a derisive manner to those at the top of their medical school classes, regardless of whether those people actively try to make themselves look better than their peers. But I do like the more specific definition better, the one with the connotation of being a tool.

Yeah, the more specific term is much more appropriate. It'd be a shame for the term gunner to be relegated to defensive speak from a person upset that they're not at the top of their class.

 

[Law2Doc]

Many people apply the term in a derisive manner to those at the top of their medical school classes, regardless of whether those people actively try to make themselves look better than their peers. But I do like the more specific definition better, the one with the connotation of being a tool.

Yes, that's the common misuse, especially amongst premeds. Like calling someone you disagree with a "fascist". Doesn't mean he actually is a fascist. It's simply a bastardization of a word. Doesn't make it the definition.

 

[DrDre311]

Yes, that's the common misuse, especially amongst premeds. Like calling someone you disagree with a "fascist". Doesn't mean he actually is a fascist. It's simply a bastardization of a word. Doesn't make it the definition.

Anybody in the top 10% of their class is a gunner. Quit being such a fascist about it. L2D, you're such a Nazi/Communist.

 

[tncekm]

Anybody in the top 10% of their class is a gunner. Quit being such a fascist about it. L2D, you're such a Nazi/Communist.

Don't be such a racist!

 

[njbmd]

My thoughts on medical school grades and I have said this before:

Those people who graduate with A-average (top of the class) wind up becoming medical school professors and department chairs.

Those people who graduate with B average wind up becoming academic physicians.

Those people who graduate with C averge wind up becoming very, very rich.

Where do you want to wind up?

 

[MSKalltheway]

My thoughts on medical school grades and I have said this before:

Those people who graduate with A-average (top of the class) wind up becoming medical school professors and department chairs.

Those people who graduate with B average wind up becoming academic physicians.

Those people who graduate with C averge wind up becoming very, very rich.

Where do you want to wind up?

Lovin' it!

 

[DrDre311]

Anybody in the top 10% of their class is a gunner. Quit being such a fascist about it. L2D, you're such a Nazi/Communist.

Apparently humor is not allowed on this forum. I actually got warned for this post. I will refrain from name-calling and any attempt at a joke when dealing with L2D in the future.

 

[Law2Doc]

Apparently humor is not allowed on this forum. I actually got warned for this post. I will refrain from name-calling and any attempt at a joke when dealing with L2D in the future.

It wasn't me.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

Apparently humor is not allowed on this forum. I actually got warned for this post. I will refrain from name-calling and any attempt at a joke when dealing with L2D in the future.

If calling L2D names were grounds for disciplinary action I would have thought that half of Pre-Allo would be on probationary status...

 

[HEADintheCLOUDS]

It wasn't me.

Yeah o-k-a-y, we believe you.

Its funny becasue I have heard of people with power getting big heads, but when someone is "an assitant to the mods"......I mean cmon. Seriously?

 

[Neuronix]

but when someone is "an assitant to the mods"

They aren't an assistant to the other mods. It's like the title "assistant professor". It means they are just the initial "rank" of SDN moderator. It comes with being a relatively new moderator.

PS: It wasn't me either.