Prelim NYU vs. Northwell vs. Mt. Sinai St. Lukes

[clownbabyMD]

Anyone have some musings on these 3 prelim programs compared to one another? Thanks!!

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[gutonc]

Moved to the internship forum where it belongs.

 

[deleted379552]

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[clownbabyMD]

bump

 

[caffeinemia]

Anyone have some musings on these 3 prelim programs compared to one another? Thanks!!

What are your concerns about each... might help to have a more narrowly focused discussion.

 

[clownbabyMD]

Good question, caffeinemia. Basically, I know I'll work hard in any prelim program, especially NYC, but I'm kind of hoping to find the one with the most reasonable, balanced lifestyle, whatever that may be. A lot of my reservations are based on a few things I've heard, so I'm trying to gather more opinions. In general, I've heard that in NYC, it can be a challenge to get blood draws done, get tests done, get patients moved, etc, and that the work environment can be a little on the hostile side.

For all of these, they seemed like really strong programs overall, but here are my reservations.

For St. Lukes, I've gotten mixed thoughts from people. Some said it was relatively laid-back in the past, but not anymore, and that the prelims are worked harder than categoricals there.

For Northwell, it seemed very friendly and welcoming, but I've heard they're still on paper charts there, and it is kind of a ways outside of the city.

For NYU, obviously a special place, amazing training, but the prelims are going to need to take the ferry out to Lutheran half the year, and I'm still not sure how I feel about that.

 

[caffeinemia]

In general, the work environment here is what I would call "testy." People will push you around if you let them and look like a lost lamb, but if you keep your cool and speak firmly but calmly/respectfully to them, they will be fine. Sometimes, if people are being unreasonable, straight up escalating it to their superiors is a good way to get them to chill the eff out.

That said, as a resident in New York, I've found nursing at several of the hospitals where I work to be adequate but by no means spectacular. It is not a major headache to me, but I ain't their friend and they ain't mine, but we each get our work done for the patient. As for blood draws -- nurses will still do em, sometimes they suck at them and their response is to ask the resident... I dun get that, but okay -- i'm really good at it because I do it once every 6 months at best? That said, I just pull out the ultra sound and go for it or look for an older nurse who's super good at it and we're set. One caveat - they are pretty resistant to placing a lot of basic lines and tubes and such here --- so a-line, a-stick, ng tubes, og tubes, sometimes even foleys are for you to do.

I have several friends who work for the Northwell or rotate out there. That paper chart thing is getting phased out slowly, but it's unclear when. And it's progress notes that are paper, all the labs and H&P and such are on computer from what I've heard. They live anywhere from Connecticut to Brooklyn to Columbus Circle. Commute is typically 45minutes each way. Some people can handle that, but it's a personal choice obviously. Also, about Northwell -- my friends there make a ******edly good amount of money for residency. 70+ and possibly a housing stipend? So if you're just doing a prelim year to fulfill a requirement for an advanced program, you should def consider money. Hard to enjoy NYC if you're both working too hard AND cash strapped.

NYU is NYU. Great brand and prestige, but can be awesomely malignant -- at least in the surgical world. If you're going to be spending any time in Bellevue, don't expect any primo support services either. It's America's oldest surviving public hospital after all. The ferry is a pain in the ass but you might consider living in Brooklyn, training to NYU and then driving to Lutheran. Brooklyn has tons of parking and typically cheaper rent. Trains from Brooklyn to Downtown Manhattan are pretty frequent.

As for St. Lukes, it's had the reputation of being chill to me. I don't know much about it otherwise, but you might want to think carefully about any program that might treat you like a second class citizen...

 

[gutonc]

For Northwell, it seemed very friendly and welcoming, but I've heard they're still on paper charts there, and it is kind of a ways outside of the city.

That's a bit of an understatement...it's way outside the city. If you want an NYC program for the outside of work aspects of it, this is a bad choice.

No idea about the paper charts, but...seriously? in 2017? Hospitals still do this? Places with 15 inpatient beds near me have EMRs.

For NYU, obviously a special place, amazing training, but the prelims are going to need to take the ferry out to Lutheran half the year, and I'm still not sure how I feel about that.

There's also a subway. And a bus. And bikes. And cars.

NYU has their own ferry though? That would be amazing.

 

[caffeinemia]

That's a bit of an understatement...it's way outside the city. If you want an NYC program for the outside of work aspects of it, this is a bad choice.

No idea about the paper charts, but...seriously? in 2017? Hospitals still do this? Places with 15 inpatient beds near me have EMRs.


There's also a subway. And a bus. And bikes. And cars.

NYU has their own ferry though? That would be amazing.

You are reallllllly out of your element in this discussion --

Northwell owns 20+ hospitals throughout NY, including Lenox Hill, which is an inpatient facility on the UES of Manhattan. So it's highly inaccurate to say they are way outside. Thus, a Northwell residency might be anywhere in the five boroughs. If you're one of those people who thinks NYC = Manhattan, then I suggest you revisit a map, as Brooklyn stretches nearly as far as some of the original Northwell flagship hopsitals (LIJ and Northshore Manhasset). In fact, LIJ is within the borders of Queens (in other words, NYC).

As for NYU -- they don't have there own Ferry, bro -- Dear god, it's supplied by groups like the East River Ferry probably in cooperation with the Port Authority -- you know, to service the millions of people who work in lower Manhattan but live in Brooklyn or Staten Island?

 

[clownbabyMD]

You are reallllllly out of your element in this discussion --

Northwell owns 20+ hospitals throughout NY, including Lenox Hill, which is an inpatient facility on the UES of Manhattan. So it's highly inaccurate to say they are way outside. Thus, a Northwell residency might be anywhere in the five boroughs. If you're one of those people who thinks NYC = Manhattan, then I suggest you revisit a map, as Brooklyn stretches nearly as far as some of the original Northwell flagship hopsitals (LIJ and Northshore Manhasset). In fact, LIJ is within the borders of Queens (in other words, NYC).

As for NYU -- they don't have there own Ferry, bro -- Dear god, it's supplied by groups like the East River Ferry probably in cooperation with the Port Authority -- you know, to service the millions of people who work in lower Manhattan but live in Brooklyn or Staten Island?

I'm appreciating the discussion so far guys. Northwell prelim for me would be only at Northshore and LIJ (so out there Queens). So there's that. I could live in Queens, even like LIC/Astoria (the "cooler" neighborhoods), though would need a car. I've never commuted by car in NYC, but I'm worried that it could be pure awfulness.

NYU does have their own ferry for this purpose actually. But the worry is more that it doesn't run very late, so would probably miss the last ferry on the reg, and therefore commuting by subway back to Manhattan for about an hour. Something that I'm sure will be not so fun after the really long days. Could live in Brooklyn-definitely an option.

 

[caffeinemia]

I'm appreciating the discussion so far guys. Northwell prelim for me would be only at Northshore and LIJ (so out there Queens). So there's that. I could live in Queens, even like LIC/Astoria (the "cooler" neighborhoods), though would need a car. I've never commuted by car in NYC, but I'm worried that it could be pure awfulness.

NYU does have their own ferry for this purpose actually. But the worry is more that it doesn't run very late, so would probably miss the last ferry on the reg, and therefore commuting by subway back to Manhattan for about an hour. Something that I'm sure will be not so fun after the really long days. Could live in Brooklyn-definitely an option.

Well, I guess I learn something new everyday... NYU has a damn ferry. Apologies to @gutonc for that solitary misstatement.

However, I hope you realize there's more than one ferry option. Also commuting in NYC is like any other city -- there's traffic congested areas and times and it will be horrible, but otherwise, it's not terrible. I've gone from UES to Long Island in 20 minutes before. And it's also taken me 1.5 hours in crazy rain/snow at the worst hour possible. So who knows. Parking should be your biggest concern, not the actual driving. That can actually take longer than the drive sometimes.

 

[gutonc]

You are reallllllly out of your element in this discussion --

Northwell owns 20+ hospitals throughout NY, including Lenox Hill, which is an inpatient facility on the UES of Manhattan. So it's highly inaccurate to say they are way outside. Thus, a Northwell residency might be anywhere in the five boroughs. If you're one of those people who thinks NYC = Manhattan, then I suggest you revisit a map, as Brooklyn stretches nearly as far as some of the original Northwell flagship hopsitals (LIJ and Northshore Manhasset). In fact, LIJ is within the borders of Queens (in other words, NYC).

As for NYU -- they don't have there own Ferry, bro -- Dear god, it's supplied by groups like the East River Ferry probably in cooperation with the Port Authority -- you know, to service the millions of people who work in lower Manhattan but live in Brooklyn or Staten Island?

JFC man...who pissed in your oatmeal?

The "Northwell" IM program is what us "olds" call NSLIJ when we applied/rotated there. And it is well outside the city, as you well know. And I do too...from my time rotating there.

I'm also well aware of the NYC ferry situation...it's just that, at least the East River Ferry Co, doesn't go anywhere near Lutheran (DUMBO is as far south as it goes in Brooklyn, Lutheran is another 60 or so blocks (give or take 20) south of there). And it's $8 RT.

I both can, and can't believe that NYU has their own ferry though. If so...that's awesome. If not (or the timing doesn't work out), the R train and CitiBike are your friends.

 

[clownbabyMD]

So which program would you all go to if you were in my shoes? It's just for one year, and then I'll most likely be heading to a different city.

 

[gutonc]

What do you want out of a prelim? Other than a certificate of completion?

 

[clownbabyMD]

I would say, I don't want to be 6 months in, and feel completely and totally drained. I'd like to have some fun outside of work. I'm leaning towards NSLIJ, but the distance from the city is holding me back.

 

[caffeinemia]

Like I said. 30 minute commute either way. And that's if you gotta live as close to manhattan as possible. On your resident salary -- that's gonna be rough regardless. If you'd settle for queens or northern bk then meh... no biggee.

 

[gutonc]

I'd say SLR = Northwell.

 

[clownbabyMD]

Thanks very much you two! This has been a helpful discussion for me for sure!

 

[Super66]

Northwell. Better money, cheaper housing, and not malignant as far as I know. 70K/year is unheard of elsewhere. PGY-7's at other hospitals are not making that salary. You're likely not going to be galavanting around the city because you won't have that much time or inclination to (you'll be tired dude). It's a year, which is nothing. That's my opinion.

I interviewed at Northwell and liked it. Cancelled my St. Lukes, wasn't interested at that point. I am doing a prelim now and decided (using my better judgement for once) to live a few minutes from the hospital rather than live in "the city". Which was 100% the best decision I could have possibly made. I get to sleep much longer (especially cumulatively) and don't have to stress about traffic and being late. The city is there, a short train ride away, if you need it.