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Prelim surgery??

kvh78

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    what the heck is going on??????????
    in general surgery,most programs have 2 or 3 cat spots but 6-8 prelim positions
    My question is whats gonna happen for the prelim residents
    are they gonna squeeze in cat program later or they switch to FP :confused:
     

    Winged Scapula

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    1. Attending Physician
      Originally posted by kvh78
      what the heck is going on??????????
      in general surgery,most programs have 2 or 3 cat spots but 6-8 prelim positions
      My question is whats gonna happen for the prelim residents
      are they gonna squeeze in cat program later or they switch to FP :confused:

      Preliminary surgery spots are designed for:

      1) people who only need 1-2 years of general surgery (ie, "Preliminary") before going onto other fields - these are generally surgical specialties, such as Ortho, ENT, Urology, Neurosurgery, etc. but many include others who are given the option of doing a Surgical OR Medical prelim year (ie, Anesthesia, Derm, Psych, etc.)

      or

      2) those who ARE trying to get into a Categorical surgery position. If they do well, they may be offered one if such an opening exists or may have to apply through NRMP for a spot. If they are not successful, then they either try, try again or change fields.

      The VAST majority of surgical positions are Preliminary and are filled by those in category one above. Thus, we (at Hershey) have 17 surgical interns, but only 4 of them are Categorical track - the rest are in the above two categories (with again, the vast majority being in the first category since we have Ortho, Neuro, ENT, Uro residencies here).

      Hope this clarifies things.
       
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      Winged Scapula

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      1. Attending Physician
        Originally posted by bla_3x
        So, is it particularly difficult for a person to land a cat spot after a prelim year?

        Can't answer that more definitely than "depends."

        Depends on how well that person performs during their Prelim year.

        Depends on how well that person "fits in" with the rest of the group - ie, just because you're a hard worker doesn't mean you'll get a spot if you're an *&&^ that can't get along with anyone.

        Depends on whether a spot is available - this is usually the case for those who are wishing to enter the Categorical track at year 2 or above. Programs with people going into the lab are more likely to be flexible (as are programs who routinely fire people and have spots open up... ;) ).

        Some programs may offer to keep you on as a Categorical but cannot give you a second year position - it means doing another intern year, but if its where you wanna be, it might be worth it.

        Hope this helps.
         

        Burton

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          Do Prelim Surg residents get to see any OR time?

          I want to get into the OR and be treated like a categorical intern.

          Any programs I should steer clear of or steer towards?

          I know Union memorial in B-more is one I've heard of discrepancies in training. But, I'd like to hear of more.
           

          Winged Scapula

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          1. Attending Physician
            Since the RRC recommendations years ago, pyramidal programs have really been phased out. I do understand that some of the military residencies have pyramidal structures but they are not under the auspices of the RRC.

            You may be able to find some programs that still operate this way, but they are few and far between. Frankly, its a buyer's market and any program that openly advertises its pyramidal structure would be killing itself in the match, IMHO and any program that hides this fact would be sanctioned by the RRC.

            I cannot speak for other programs but at mine the Prelims are on the rotation and call schedule just like the Categoricals and are not discriminated against when it comes to operating time. All cases are divided without regard to status - although if a junior level head and neck case came up, the ENT interns might get first dibs amongst those on service, but that decision would be up to the Chief and the other residents on service.

            It has been rumored that Prelims are treated like the step-children of the program but it depends on the program and whether or not the person in question is a designated prelim (ie, doing a prelim year before going onto another specialty) or someone who didn't match into a Categorical spot. I can't see it happening with the formers (except for some teasing about doing other surgical specialties) and the latters are being closely observed for potential in the categorical track.

            Getting into the OR Burton depends on the program - it is fair to expect to be able to operate and learn patient management just as other interns do, but there will likely be some discrepancies. I don't have any information on programs to avoid or to focus on unfortuantely.
             

            Burton

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              This is driving me crazy! I logged into a public computer a week or so ago, and forgot to log out- now people keep posting with my name. Problem is, I don't remember exactly which computer it was. Guess I'll have to check them all, b/c it's obvious it's never going to log out by itself. Isn't there some way to log out "across the board" without having to do it from the specific computer?

              The Real Burton
               

              Apollyon

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              SCREW IT!
                Log in like you did (since you were able to post), then, on the main page, near the bottom, on the right, click "log out".

                Before doing that, though, go to the Control Panel (CP) and change your password, if you were "prudent" enough to have Windows automatically load your ID and password.
                 

                iwakuni_doc

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                  In the Navy, all of the surgery internships are preliminary positions since you'll be expected to do at least one tour as a GMO/Flight Surgeon/Dive Medical Officer in order to be accepted into one of the competitive surgical residencies.

                  This isn't the case for some programs such as OB/GYN, Medicine, or Pediatrics which allow for residents to train straight through - they will have both categorical & preliminary interns.
                   
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