Premed seeks advice for Dentist lifestyle.

[slackerjock]

Um, Hi.

I"m applying to med school but it seems like the real secret is dentistry. The job function itself seems not as fulfilling...but if you think about it, neither is performing 20 LASIKS per day as an ophthalmologist. Added to the fact that your hours are EASY (35-45hrs ), your pay is HIGHER ($300K+)than most docs, and theres like minimal post DDS tranining (1 yr?)...

So, how do i make the switch? My CV is mostly geared towards MD. I dont really have any reason for wanting to be a DDS besides money and lifestyle. I have the stats for most dental schools, i think...3.7@top 10, 35 mcat (96th percentile).

1. do any schools accept the MCAT?
2. what specialty(s) do i want to enter for the most money and best lifestyle, ie the "dermatology" of DDS?
3. can i enter this speciatly at Joe Blow School of Denistry (read: cheap state school)?
4. How many years is this specialty?
5. please dont find this offensive, but do most dentists do it for money/lifestyle or for the love of fixing people's teeth?
thx.

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[coodoo]

Um, Hi.

I"m applying to med school but it seems like the real secret is dentistry. The job function itself seems not as fulfilling...but if you think about it, neither is performing 20 LASIKS per day as an ophthalmologist. Added to the fact that your hours are EASY (35-45hrs ), your pay is HIGHER ($300K+)than most docs, and theres like minimal post DDS tranining (1 yr?)...

You have to be a pretty darn good dentist to make 300K+ a year coming straight out of school. Typically, it takes a dentist around 10 years to start netting that kind of dough.

So, how do i make the switch? My CV is mostly geared towards MD. I dont really have any reason for wanting to be a DDS besides money and lifestyle. I have the stats for most dental schools, i think...3.7@top 10, 35 mcat (96th percentile).

You are going to have to take the DAT. It's easier than the MCAT, but you are going to have to study some math and perceptual ability before you take the test

1. do any schools accept the MCAT?

No, not as a replacement for the DAT

2. what specialty(s) do i want to enter for the most money and best lifestyle, ie the "dermatology" of DDS?

That's probably ortho, but at some schools you are going to have to be top 4 or 5 in your class.

3. can i enter this speciatly at Joe Blow School of Denistry (read: cheap state school)?

I'm pretty sure you can. Just double check with the schools you are interested in

4. How many years is this specialty?

Depends on the school and the specialty. Most run from 2-4 years

5. please dont find this offensive, but do most dentists do it for money/lifestyle or for the love of fixing people's teeth?

I actually enjoy fixing people's teeth. I have to warn you though, man. I would not get into dentistry unless I really enjoyed it. This is one of those jobs that will make you miserable if you don't like what you do. Hey, it's your life, but if I were you I would do what I liked to do. Because if you wake up in the mornings and say to yourself, "Oh no, not another day of this!", you are going to be miserable regardless of how much money you make. Just my thoughts.

 

[slackerjock]

misery is relative. personally i dont know if i'd mind 35 hours in the office (filing fingernails, fixing tires, etc) as long as i made my 3pm tee time driving in my bmw m3?

 

[coodoo]

you are not going to make 300K a year if you are only going to work 35 hours a week

 

[Dentalist]

Dermatology, my friend.

 

[Dr.SpongeBobDDS]

Plenty of dentists make that kind of money on 35 hrs/week after they are established.

The irony of dentistry though is that the guys who are only in it for the money are the ones who never make any. You have to enjoy dentistry enough that you are willing to study and learn new techniques after school; it's pretty difficult to make a fortune plugging amalgams all day. Plus, your patients have to get a sense that you are happy and care about what you are doing or they aren't coming back to see you. It's pretty hard to fake that 4 days a week.

 

[hossaiaa]

Plenty of dentists make that kind of money on 35 hrs/week after they are established.

The irony of dentistry though is that the guys who are only in it for the money are the ones who never make any. You have to enjoy dentistry enough that you are willing to study and learn new techniques after school; it's pretty difficult to make a fortune plugging amalgams all day. Plus, your patients have to get a sense that you are happy and care about what you are doing or they aren't coming back to see you. It's pretty hard to fake that 4 days a week.

I couln't have said it better. Excellent post.

 

[rcmonkeypie]

dermatology, urology, interventional radiology, Vein specialisit (all those spider veins!)..... short hours, big $, go med school friend and leave the ones who really like teeth to do the job.

 

[Tabstar]

i think you are basically looking for a job that sucks the least and pays the most. well, people's mouths aren't exactly the prettiest, the smells, the saliva, angry patients...there are a lot of potential turnoffs when it comes to dentistry...

i originally wanted to go to med school but I have a poor immune system. I catch colds, viruses, flus, etc very easily. I volunteered at the hospital and did not like seeing terminally ill, depressed, and sick patients...but then that's the hospital...All in all I temporarily dropped out of the health scene and joined engineering...it was a fast track to a lot of money at a young age...I HATE IT!!! I have been compensated financially but you get to a point, (AND YOU WILL GET TO THAT POINT), that you feel like your life and the time left in your life is worth more than a big bank balance. It has to be personally rewarding and feel like it comes natural. I should have stayed and pursued other options in the health field. I like health classes, biology, chemistry, but I only had my eyes on premed...

Well now 10 years later, I realize I should have explored more options. Well I did and I volunteered at different health events. Finally I volunteered at a dental charity event, and that gave me the most satisfaction. Seeing how dentistry can help people improve their appearance and self esteem, relieve oral pain, and prevent oral disease. Educating patients about oral hygiene. It was too cool!

I am so glad that I volunteered because at first I thought I would be turned off by it. But now I realize that, after having tried different things this is what lighted my eyes and heart. I recommend you try it out first (ie volunteering). It may or may not be your thing...but you won't know until you try it...

And yes there are some perks to dentistry, BUT at the end of the day, Physicians still average higher salaries...and they still garner more prestige than dentists (if that's what your interested in primarily).

 

[v&andy_yankee]

I"m applying to med school but it seems like the real secret is dentistry.

right away, with that kind of an attitude, i'm not so sure that the health professions (not just dentistry) is what you should be looking into. all the good doctors and dentists (well paid, respected) are doing what they do because they enjoy it, not because they're thinking "gee, how can i make the most money from the least input? moneymoneymoney."
to be making big bucks in any job, you need to put all of yourself into it--if you do it half ass, you'll get half assed results.

 

[dane4695]

I know a dentist that worked about 30 hrs / week and made 450k/year ...

From my observation, it's not necessarily about the quality of work you put out (assuming it's still good) but how you treat the patient. The dentist even had said he wasn't as good as some of the people around town... yet he was booked out 3 months in advance. I will say his partners weren't off as well though, JUST for the reason spongebob said. A doctor should see patients as people, not dollar bills.

I would say though, make sure your motives are right. The job you pick is the one you'll be doing for the next 20-30 years, so make sure you're interested!

 

[Jack Worthing]

1. do any schools accept the MCAT?
Take the DATs; its computerized and easy to arrange (you can decide exactly when and where you take it). The DAT has an unique section called the "PAT" that may need to be seen by the schools-- otherwise the rest is pretty simliar to MCAT. "PAT" = perceptual ability test. For definitive info, see: http://www.ada.org/prof/ed/testing/dat/index.asp#overview

2. what specialty(s) do i want to enter for the most money and best lifestyle, ie the "dermatology" of DDS?
Orthodontics is what I've heard. Clean, no blood, often just changing wires/rubber bands, good compensation because its often a cosmetic procedure. However, I hear that orthodontics is becoming crowded as a specialty and Oral Surgery comes second in compensation and lifestyle and prestige, although you'll have to "love" blood and surgery to do it.

3. can i enter this speciatly at Joe Blow School of Denistry (read: cheap state school)? You can get your DDS at Joe Blow (cheap state school); depending on how well you do there you can get ur specialty anywhere that offers it. Look up the school you're interested in for their post-graduate program. Stony Brook for example has endodontics, periodontics, and orthodontics but no program on Oral/maxillofacial surgery (OMFS).

4. How many years is this specialty?
Orthodontics at Stony Brook is 36 months. I think surgery would be 5 years (2 years for the added MD degree.. u get MD, DDS at end).

5. please dont find this offensive, but do most dentists do it for money/lifestyle or for the love of fixing people's teeth?
both.. its a passion for the oral cavity and a lifestyle... "nothing great was accomplished without great passion"
hey.. do gastroenterologist or proctologists do it for looking up people's rectums?

 

[Rezdawg]

misery is relative. personally i dont know if i'd mind 35 hours in the office (filing fingernails, fixing tires, etc) as long as i made my 3pm tee time driving in my bmw m3?

I know a dentist like that...except its a porsche one day and a benz the next.

He says that if you dont mind doing that kind of work and looking into mouths all day long, then go for it. So, if you can see yourself doing dentistry and certain aspects of it dont bother you, then you are picking the right profession if you are looking for lifestyle. They live good, thats for sure.

 

[toothcaries]

if you did well on the mcat...you'll more than likely do very well on the dat.
you dont need to sweat that exam. it is just another hurdle.

as far as dental schools..
unless someone else is paying for your education...go to the school that gives u the best financial aid package.
that general means a state school.

i chose to go to my state university btw

about specializing..
just study your butt off and learn as much as possible so that you will have the option of applying to ortho or oral surgery if u choose.....

ortho and pedo seem to be very popular now...

for me..
i love oral surgery.
...but the opportunity cost is just too high (another 4-6 years).

compensation.
honestly, i never understood why this is such a sensitive topic...
a fair question for anyone that is about to invest time and energy into a career.


the key to dentistry is efficiency imo...

endodudes make pretty pennies 'cause they do big procedures all day and they have little overhead.
..same with ortho...and oral surgeons pulling wizzies all day.

you could build a million dollar practice plugging amalgam all day... but you'd probably have to get work 60+ hours or practice on rollerskates to do it...
however, if u keep your love oflearning....treat your patients like famliy..and can do your own "specialty" procedures as well as a specialist.... i think a $300k take home is a realistic goal.

think about it..
$300k net means your practice is grossing about$750k.
let's just say hygiene is producing $150k of that...
so you would have to produce $600,000 of dentistry.
lets just say u work 45 weeks in the year...
you'll need to be producing $13,000...to have a shot at your goal of $300 take home.
if u work 60 hours.. u just need to produce $225/hr on average (u SHOULD be able to do this)
however, if u love all aspects of dentistry....do the simple non-skeletal ortho..and keep your endo in house...and maybe do your own surgical procedures like...placing implants...you may be able to produce that $13,000 a week...in probably less than 35 hours.

 

[Jack Worthing]

dane4695,

I've heard similar things from dentists i've shadowed-- that charisma oftens wins out in determining the success of your practice, rather than technical prowess, because a major key to practice growth is patient retention and word-of-mouth to get new patients.

 

[Jack Worthing]

dentistry and the "dentist-patient" relationship is often highly emotional, because of the discomfort involved in the dental arena and because of the investment people put into their smiles and breath. If you can put your patients at ease I would think they would be incredibly loyal. Thats how i feel about my dentist. Like "Dr.SpongeBobDDS" said back in his July 8 post, a big factor in putting your patients at ease is being at ease yourself. I can sense that my dentist is so happy doing what he is doing, really enjoying it, and that makes me feel good to be in his chair.

 

[Jack Worthing]

daaaaaaamn... out of curiousity i looked at some post-grad programs at Columbia University, NYU, SUNY Buffalo and SUNY Stony Brook...

NYU has a 2 year ortho program while the others have 3 year ortho programs. OK.

Here's the kicker: Oral/Maxillofacial Surgery post-grad programs are six years (offered by NYU and Buffalo, none at Stony and Columbia). Six YEARS! Year 1, Year 2, Year 3, Year 4, Year 5, Year 6.

Financial Aid from the federal government for these programs is undergoing some legislation hearings and may not be in place in the near future.. and the tuition is 30,000 to 40,000 a year... with only 30,000 stipend and maybe not even...

You Gotta Love It.