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meanderson

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Between LSU-NO and LSU-Shreveport, there are almost 270 spots reserved almost exclusively for Lousiana residents. Isn't this a bit much considering the state of Louisiana isn't all that large.

Florida, a much larger state which probably has a higher ratio of competitive applicants, couldn't have many more spots than this reserved for Florida residents considring UM is partially open to out of staters. My state, Georgia, is a pretty fair state to get into medical school but we only have about 275-280 slots reserved. And Georgia is certainly much more populated than Louisiana. With the possible exception of texas and ohio, is there a more premed friendly state than louisiana?
 
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8744

Originally posted by meanderson
Between LSU-NO and LSU-Shreveport, there are almost 270 spots reserved almost exclusively for Lousiana residents. Isn't this a bit much considering the state of Louisiana isn't all that large.

Florida, a much larger state which probably has a higher ratio of competitive applicants, couldn't have many more spots than this reserved for Florida residents considring UM is partially open to out of staters. My state, Georgia, is a pretty fair state to get into medical school but we only have about 275-280 slots reserved. And Georgia is certainly much more populated than Louisiana. With the possible exception of texas and ohio, is there a more premed friendly state than louisiana?

I think about 800 people apply for those 270 spots each year. Considering that many of these people also apply to and matriculate to Tulane and out-of-state schools then I think you see why I'm glad I live in Louisiana.

I calculated once that based on the assumption that all people apply to both Shreveport and New Orleans you have a 50/50 chance of getting into either one of our state schools just be luck of the draw.

But seriously, even though California has six times our population, don;t they have a whole bunch of medical schools (15 or so?)
 

meanderson

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california has only 5 state medical schools(UCSF, UCI, UCLA, UCSD, UCD) and 3 private schools(Stanford, LLU, USC) which are very open to out of staters. Even two of the state schools(UCSF and UCLA) are somewhat open to out of staters.

And if california has only 6 times the population, I'd bet they have easily more than 6x as many competitive applicants.
 
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Gleevec

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Originally posted by meanderson
california has only 5 state medical schools(UCSF, UCI, UCLA, UCSD, UCD) and 3 private schools(Stanford, LLU, USC) which are very open to out of staters. Even two of the state schools(UCSF and UCLA) are somewhat open to out of staters.

And if california has only 6 times the population, I'd bet they have easily more than 6x as many competitive applicants.

Prior to gobernator raising tuition rates significantly, I considered California by far the best state to be a resident from for medical school. The chance to attend UCSF, UCLA, and UCSD for an extremely reasonable price blew just about every other state out of the water.

That said, with the new tuition policy about to take effect for California, Id have to say Texas is the best state to be from. Not only do you get to pay $6550 for all its schools (including Baylor and UTSW) but the match acts as a buffer to prevent lots of out-of-staters from applying (exception: Baylor on AMCAS). And there are a good number of high quality schools in TX, and a new one is opening up in El Paso.

Louisiana is pretty good too.
 

meanderson

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Originally posted by Gleevec
Prior to gobernator raising tuition rates significantly, I considered California by far the best state to be a resident from for medical school. The chance to attend UCSF, UCLA, and UCSD for an extremely reasonable price blew just about every other state out of the water.

.

California was a great state to be from if you have a great application. I was thinking more along the lines of the population pool as a whole, with special emphasis placed on those with mediocre to poor numbers. If I had a 3.4 gpa from an unknown school and a 26-27 mcat with not much else going on in my application, I'd want to be from louisiana first...then probably texas.
 

u2psalm40

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hmm..imho--- as a louisiana resident who went to school out of state (CA)... I've been actually pretty surprised at how many people LSU-NO and LSU-S turn down in their first application. This is mainly from lots of anecdotal info, but in no way is getting in a sure thing. Probably easier than in CA, but then again, there are more than 2 schools there and most other states are really receptive to CA residents;
 

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I doubt that any people with a 27 and 3.4 with not much going on in their application would easily get into LSU-NO or Shreveport. I know plenty of people with high GPAs and 29s on their MCATs who don't get in on their first try.
 
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Originally posted by bobmarley77
I doubt that any people with a 27 and 3.4 with not much going on in their application would easily get into LSU-NO or Shreveport. I know plenty of people with high GPAs and 29s on their MCATs who don't get in on their first try.


Cough..clears throat...cough...I think the average MCAT score of LSU matriculants (New Orleans and Shreveport) is 26 and the average GPA is 3.5 or thereabouts. Somebody correct me if I am wrong. But you do have to have a solid application to get in. My GPA sucked but I had an above average MCAT score, an interesting application, and I am the ultimate non-traditional student.

(But, "non-traditional" is rapidly becoming a meaningless phrase. I think half the people in my class are "non-traditional" in that they did not go straight from high-school to college to medical school.)
 

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Actually, from the data on their website and from the interview, the average MCAT at LSU-NO was 27.9 with a 3.7 overall and a 3.6 science gpa. LSU-S had similar though slightly less competitive stats. Louisiana is obviously much easier than a lot of states to be accepted, but it is certainly not a pushover.
 

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It happens because the public education system is atrocious and the university system isn't a whole heck of a lot better (sorry all you LSU fans). As a resident, I could have gotten a full paid scholarship to LSU with the ACT score I got in the 7th grade!! This theme just perpetuates itself and is visible in the medical schools. Thus the reason I am now a resident of NC.

Yeah, feel free to call me an elitist or whatever but there is a distinct difference between an LSU education (non honors) and an education at most other institutions of higher learning.
 

StartingLine3

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When does the El Paso medical school open, Texas already has a good amount of medical schools. Hooray for being a Texas resident. :clap:
 

BerkeleyPremed

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Originally posted by Gleevec
Prior to gobernator raising tuition rates significantly, I considered California by far the best state to be a resident from for medical school. The chance to attend UCSF, UCLA, and UCSD for an extremely reasonable price blew just about every other state out of the water.

That said, with the new tuition policy about to take effect for California, Id have to say Texas is the best state to be from. Not only do you get to pay $6550 for all its schools (including Baylor and UTSW) but the match acts as a buffer to prevent lots of out-of-staters from applying (exception: Baylor on AMCAS). And there are a good number of high quality schools in TX, and a new one is opening up in El Paso.

Louisiana is pretty good too.

This is complete garbage. CA is the WORST state for residents applying to medical school. Yes, you have 2 of the greatest public medical schools in the country in the state (UCSF and UCLA-Geffen)...but these schools are practically impossible to get into EVEN IF you are an in-state applicant with great stats. The acceptance rates to these schools are incredibly low (even for in-staters) and getting into UCLA, UCSD, UCSF, or UCI with a GPA lower than 3.5 and an MCAT lower than 30 close to impossible.

The benefit of living in OTHER states (namely, Ohio and Texas) is that you have in-state medical schools with LOWER MCAT and GPA averages than most other private medical schools. The CA schools (UCLA-Geffen, UCSF, etc) have avg GPA and avg MCAT stats that could easily rival those of practically ANY of the best private medical schools in the nation...with the exceptions of maybe Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Columbia, and Washington University.

In addition, medical schools want to preserve geographic diversity...as result, they don't want to be flooded with CA applicants. CA has the MOST applicants in the country (which makes perfect sense because it has one of the highest state populations in the country) and the most competitive out of the CA applicant pool will apply to UCSF, UCLA, and lots of out-of-state private schools. As a result, this leaves the LEGIONS of CA applicants with <3.8 GPAs, and sub 33 MCAT scores to apply to tons of out-of-state private schools. CA applicants typically have to send out their primary apps to at least 30+ schools. CA applicants have NO IN-STATE MED SCHOOLS to fall back on...absolutely none.

Applicants in Texas can always say...well, in case I don't get into my top choices (**insert out-of-state private schools here**)...I can always go to my in-state backup schools like UTSA. Applicants in Ohio can say the same thing and they can fall back on schools like OSU and Medical College of Ohio. CA applicants have absolutely nothing to fall back on...even the TOP CA applicants still get rejected left and right by UCLA, UCSD, and UCSF.
 
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LizS

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Twinklz:

It happens because the public education system is atrocious and the university system isn't a whole heck of a lot better (sorry all you LSU fans). As a resident, I could have gotten a full paid scholarship to LSU with the ACT score I got in the 7th grade

In your " eliteness" you seem to have overlooked the average ACT score of LA residents (19.6) and how it compares it to the average NC ACT score (19.9). I do not believe that the .3 difference could possibly have the impact on education you are referring to. LSU requires a minimum ACT score of 24 to be accepted. Congratulations on a score high enough above this to allow for scholarship consideration. I can assume that you were educated from one of these "atrocious" school systems. I have a Master's degree in both education and my content area (Chemistry). I teach high school and college chemistry in LA. I have published research and am a member of a collaborative group of educators from UCLA, Harvard, Stanford, and Vanderbilt. Are these to be included in your category of other higher institutions of learning? My master professor earned his Ph.D. from Hopkins. Substandard?

This theme just perpetuates itself and is visible in the medical schools. Thus the reason I am now a resident of NC.


I am not sure what criteria you are using to compare the perpetual theme of the medical schools but LSU medical students pass the boards at above average rates. You may want come down from your elite thrown to research and re-evaluate your unfound data. Surely your "higher than ours" institution of learning has taught you the importance of relating data to your research.
 
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meanderson

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Originally posted by bobmarley77
I doubt that any people with a 27 and 3.4 with not much going on in their application would easily get into LSU-NO or Shreveport. I know plenty of people with high GPAs and 29s on their MCATs who don't get in on their first try.

I didn't say they would easily get in. But I'm pretty sure they would have a much greater chance of getting in with that kind of application in louisiana than most places.
 

u2psalm40

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Originally posted by Mr Reddly
Thanks babe. I'm sure I can use it.

On second thought. My posts obviously pissed someone off. I'll be nice and delete them so they don't piss anyone else off... There. All gone. Better?

i don't know what your "babe" thinks, but I sure feel better. I admit I probably should have just PM'ed you.

best of luck
 
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8744

Originally posted by twinklz
It happens because the public education system is atrocious and the university system isn't a whole heck of a lot better (sorry all you LSU fans). As a resident, I could have gotten a full paid scholarship to LSU with the ACT score I got in the 7th grade!! This theme just perpetuates itself and is visible in the medical schools. Thus the reason I am now a resident of NC.

Yeah, feel free to call me an elitist or whatever but there is a distinct difference between an LSU education (non honors) and an education at most other institutions of higher learning.

Our public schools do suck, generally, but then again this is not a problem exclusive to Louisiana.

Most of the people in my class went to private schools so I don't know how they fit into the general poor quality of public education down here.

Also, my Alma Mater (Louisiana Tech) at first glance would seem to have no entrance standards except a pulse and a couple of functioning neurons. However, the functionally illiterate are channeld into education, psychology, and the other Mickey Mouse programs. The College of Engineering however, as an example, requires a fairly high GPA in the "weed out" classes before a prospective student may take a degree in engineering.

Unfortunantly, Louisiana has bought into the myth that everybody needs to go to college whether they actually get an education or not. The idea of education is more important then education. Many "educators" and lay people in our state have an talimanistic belief in the power of a college degree, even if it is essentially awarded for nothing. You can slime through most Louisiana universities doing next to nothing and emerge with a diploma of some sort.

Money drives this problem. We have quite a few universities and they all need a constant flow of warm bodies to justify the salaries of administrators, teachers, and buearocrats.
 

chameleonknight

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As a former Bulldog, I can say that Panda is right on. I remember sitting next to a kid in Freshmen orientatin who got a 15 on his ACT. Just for reference, guessing blindly will get you a 12.

Yet, in my honors classes, everyone had a 30+ ACT, great grades, ECs, etc. The problem is that damned TOPS program which lets just about anybody go to college whether they need to or not.

As far as the LSUs being easy to get into: I think this stems from them actually being non-numbers driven. You hear it all the time, but with these schools you get a sense that your experience actually matters.

For a point of reference, I was waitlisted at both schools (3.7 GPA, 33 MCAT) If they were so "easy" I'd think I'd get in no problem. But limited clinical and no research experience definitely made the interviewers question me and my goals.

That being said, thank GOD I don't live in California. I would have definitely applied to about 15-20 private schools if I did.
 

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Being a Cali resident definitely sucks big nuts. Which is why I'm definitely glad that I'll get to establish residency in another state during my master's program because I plan on spending 2 years out-of-state for the master's degree.
 

twinklz

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NC might very well have only a 0.3 higher average than LA. But lets compare UNC's (27)http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/generalinfo.asp?listing=1023944&LTID=1 average with LSU (24)http://www.bgtplan.lsu.edu/trend/students/admissions/nfractcoll.htm. Or better yet UNCC with LSUA. Sorry, I couldn't find the numbers for the other universities. Via the TOPS program you get at least a partial ride with a 20 on the ACT! http://www.osfa.state.la.us/schgrt6c.htm

I have no idea if the public school system for grade school and high school is better or worse than Louisiana. Judging by the knowledge of my peers in college, it was substantially better. I was validectorian of my high school and yet on my Calculus and Chemistry AP test I scored a 1 (as did every other person in the class...no...take that back, one person scored a 2). In college, I got As in these class. What this indicates is a subpar education system. I must admit, that my English classes in high school were outstanding.

I actually took a summer class at an LSU branch. We were allowed to look at old tests to prepare ourselves for the actual tests. The questions were the same on both tests! The only difference is the multiple choice answers were rearranged!! And people still complained!!!

I freely admit that it is possible to get a good education out of LSU especially if you are a part of the honors college (which I specified in my first post). Its just that LA is desperately trying to "educate" its masses but its going about it in entirely the wrong fashion.
 

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I have got to agree that LA education system sucks. However, being a LSU student I would say that classes are pretty well taught and is comparable to many other top universities. Again, it's what you put in that count!!!
 

skidmark

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I enjoy living in LA but I do agree that the elementary and high school public school system here needs a little work. However, the private schools in LA are outstanding in my opinion. Most students in my medical school class went to private school in LA. I was educated by public schools and graduated from LSU.
I felt that my public high school prepared me well for college eventhough I wasn't a great student back then (I ranked 65 out of 420 at high school graduation). I buckled down and made A's at LSU and felt prepared for the MCAT. I am now a medical student at LSU. The education we get is great (just like at every other US med school). We take the same boards as everyone else and believe it or not actually have a higher passing rate than the national average. This is true for both LSU med schools.

Bottom line: LA public schools are below national average but still have potential to produce educatd individuals.

LA universities function as degree factories that take money from stupid people but do a darn good job of educating and preparing motivated people.

LSU medical schools have many spots (we have 2 schools) for fewer applicants compared to other states. Therefore, I would assume that it is easier to get into LSU than in other schools. However, the education provided at LSU is above average.
 

skidmark

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NC might very well have only a 0.3 higher average than LA. But lets compare UNC's (27)http://www.princetonreview.com/coll...3944&LTID=1 average with LSU (24)http://www.bgtplan.lsu.edu/trend/st...nfractcoll.htm. Or better yet UNCC with LSUA. Sorry, I couldn't find the numbers for the other universities. Via the TOPS program you get at least a partial ride with a 20 on the ACT! http://www.osfa.state.la.us/schgrt6c.htm

I have no idea if the public school system for grade school and high school is better or worse than Louisiana. Judging by the knowledge of my peers in college, it was substantially better. I was validectorian of my high school and yet on my Calculus and Chemistry AP test I scored a 1 (as did every other person in the class...no...take that back, one person scored a 2). In college, I got As in these class. What this indicates is a subpar education system. I must admit, that my English classes in high school were outstanding.

I actually took a summer class at an LSU branch. We were allowed to look at old tests to prepare ourselves for the actual tests. The questions were the same on both tests! The only difference is the multiple choice answers were rearranged!! And people still complained!!!

I freely admit that it is possible to get a good education out of LSU especially if you are a part of the honors college (which I specified in my first post). Its just that LA is desperately trying to "educate" its masses but its going about it in entirely the wrong fashion.

twinklz,

I agree that LA is "desperately" trying to educate its masses through TOPS (which is totally wrong, but someone needs to get paid). I just want to point out that this doesnt mean that UNC is any better than LSU, it just means that UNC is a more SELECTIVE university. Your stats say nothing about the quality of education provided (I'm not saying that you stated this, just pointing it out). Both schools are fine institutions.

Also, at least 40 students in my med school class graduated from LSU main campus and I don't know a single one who went through the honors program. I would agree that one could get a fine education at LSU w/o doing the Honors program.
 
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What exactly is an "honors" program.

Hey, I did 18 months of my Civil Engineering degree at the University of Vermont. I didn't notice any difference in the difficulty or standards between UVM and Louisiana Tech in regards to the core engineering curriculum. Just my opinion.

The "Mickey Mouse" classes are a little easier at Louisiana Tech but UVM has its share of *****ic course offerings which I cannot see how anybody could fail. You can take all kinds of essentially meaningless classes at both schools and come out after five, six, or even seven years with a essentially useless degree which will qualify you for nothing but a job in government.

UVM costs about four times as much as Louisiana Tech which, along with marrying a piney hills girl, is why we moved down here.
 
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Some of you nabobs out there are bashing public schools in Louisiana and I would like to state that I attended public school at Mandeville HS and I would challenge anyone to find a better public school in the south. People should not be so limited in their vision as to assume that the horrors of New Orleans public schools and their short comings extend to the rest of the state. As far as Med School at LSU-NO goes, if you never attended you should not bash it. I wouldn't frown on someone in med school in Wyoming, therefore I fail to see the wisdom in statements like "blah, blah...there are more openings." To me it sounds like someone missed out not being a LA resident.

Cheers. :sleep:
 

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The comparison b/w LSU and UNC is inappropriate. The UNC system is much more like a smaller UC system than anything else. LSU is moe comparable to NC state, which certainly has similar quality of students as LSU.
 

debvz

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The quality of education from a LA med school cannot be inferred from a school's acceptance standards, or from the quality of education at LA's undergrad institutions. LA gets a bad rap when it comes to evaluating its public education system, but med school is a whole different ballgame -- the faculty, resources, and training here are all excellent. In the end, we all have to pass the USMLE steps to become licensed physicians. Comparing USMLE pass rates and match stats will give you a better picture of the quality of students and teaching than MCATs and pre-med GPAs. After all, if the LA med schools can take students with lower-than-average scores and graduate them with higher-than-average USMLE pass rates and competitive matches, that really says something about the quality of their education.
 

Termwean

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Thank-you,
Thank-you for sticking-up for my beloved LSU!. I am originally from Mass, married into Louisiana and LOVE it here. I am about to get my BS from LSU, I want my MD from LSU, and would absolutely love to have my residency diploma(is it a diploma) from LSU. I am glad that LSU system reserves the spots for residents. It helps people like me, that do not want to move away, stay in this state. LSU is not a push-over of a university either. Every schol teachers the same stuff, even the IVY league. To the stuck-up TAR loving ex-patriot.....stay. To you, LSU protecter...see ya at the tailgate party.
LizS said:
Twinklz:



In your " eliteness" you seem to have overlooked the average ACT score of LA residents (19.6) and how it compares it to the average NC ACT score (19.9). I do not believe that the .3 difference could possibly have the impact on education you are referring to. LSU requires a minimum ACT score of 24 to be accepted. Congratulations on a score high enough above this to allow for scholarship consideration. I can assume that you were educated from one of these "atrocious" school systems. I have a Master's degree in both education and my content area (Chemistry). I teach high school and college chemistry in LA. I have published research and am a member of a collaborative group of educators from UCLA, Harvard, Stanford, and Vanderbilt. Are these to be included in your category of other higher institutions of learning? My master professor earned his Ph.D. from Hopkins. Substandard?




I am not sure what criteria you are using to compare the perpetual theme of the medical schools but LSU medical students pass the boards at above average rates. You may want come down from your elite thrown to research and re-evaluate your unfound data. Surely your "higher than ours" institution of learning has taught you the importance of relating data to your research.
 

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When does the El Paso medical school open, Texas already has a good amount of medical schools. Hooray for being a Texas resident. :clap:

El Paso is just a rumor right now, so is Austin.

There are no formal plans for a new med school in Texas, just speculation and rumors.
 

chameleonknight

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1) Wyoming has no med school; I know b/c one of my good friends is now attending the University of Oklahoma instead of the non-existent Wyoming Med.

2) How interesting that despite having "too many" med schools, much of Louisiana is still considered medically underserved...
 
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MacGyver said:
El Paso is just a rumor right now, so is Austin.

There are no formal plans for a new med school in Texas, just speculation and rumors.

MacGyver you are just plain wrong:

From: http://www.dailytexanonline.com/new...Million.Medical.School.On.Border-535126.shtml

10/22/2003
EL PASO - A bill signed by Gov. Rick Perry clears the way for a new $45 million medical school in El Paso that likely will focus on diseases disproportionately affecting border residents, such as diabetes.

The medical school will be a branch of Texas Tech Medical Center.

Perry signed the legislation on Monday authorizing the state's newest medical school in 26 years. El Paso's school will be the ninth in Texas and the first on the border, which suffers from a chronic shortage of doctors.

''This is a long-term commitment to El Paso and to the border region,'' Perry said after signing the bill, which includes authorization for Texas Tech University to sell $45 million in tuition revenue bonds.

''The economic development side is important, but it's not as important as the quality-of-life side of what this means for the border region,'' the governor said.

Texas Tech already has authorized $2 million to design the four-year medical school. Construction could begin late next year or in 2005.

Dr. Jose Manuel de la Rosa, Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center regional dean, welcomed Perry's signing of the bill, but warned that there still is work to do.

El Pasoans already have pledged $3 million for the project. Community leaders plan to ask Perry for at least $2 million from the governor's economic development enterprise fund to help finance startup costs and faculty recruiting.

Texas Tech's budget for its El Paso campus is expected to jump from about $50 million to $200 million a year, said El Paso businessman Robert Brown, a Texas Tech regent.

''We will be the regional medical center for all of this whole Southwest area of the United States. This will be the foundation for truly creating a medical complex that, in my opinion, will become world-renowned,'' Brown said. ''I think it's the most important piece of legislation [for El Paso] that's been signed in the last 50 years.''
 

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Between LSU-NO and LSU-Shreveport, there are almost 270 spots reserved almost exclusively for Lousiana residents. Isn't this a bit much considering the state of Louisiana isn't all that large.

Florida, a much larger state which probably has a higher ratio of competitive applicants, couldn't have many more spots than this reserved for Florida residents considring UM is partially open to out of staters. My state, Georgia, is a pretty fair state to get into medical school but we only have about 275-280 slots reserved. And Georgia is certainly much more populated than Louisiana. With the possible exception of texas and ohio, is there a more premed friendly state than louisiana?
Louisiana does not need two LSU med schools. They can be more highly selective if they only had one. Here is a state that is desperate for money for higher Ed. They should have closed LSU med school in NO after Katrina blew it away. I have been told by more than one source, that LSU takes in what they let out. If a student is having trouble, he/she is "helped" so all can graduate. You have to work and study in order to learn. If you don't give it your all, you will fall short. There are so many compliants of how doctors practice. I've had 2 doctors tell me a fellow MD is unsafe and has killed, and they do nothing - look the other way. So many back surgeries by ortho that leave the patient worse after surgery, even with a severed spinal cord. There is an excellent neuro surgeon that was dismissed from LSU's faculty. Had a petition in which there were over 10,000 signatures for his reinstatement. Something is terribly wrong when the doctor who has a great outcome after back/neck surg is fired, while the butchers continue. I saw a bar graft where middle Louisiana had more surgeries per 1000 population in 1992. We don't need quantity, we need quality. Get selective, make it hard, and turn out what is required. No more crutches in Med school. All apps should be drug tested and if there is any history of drug abuse, don't allow admission. Kick out if addiction happens after.
 
Sep 4, 2006
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Louisiana does not need two LSU med schools. They can be more highly selective if they only had one. Here is a state that is desperate for money for higher Ed. They should have closed LSU med school in NO after Katrina blew it away. I have been told by more than one source, that LSU takes in what they let out. If a student is having trouble, he/she is "helped" so all can graduate. You have to work and study in order to learn. If you don't give it your all, you will fall short. There are so many compliants of how doctors practice. I've had 2 doctors tell me a fellow MD is unsafe and has killed, and they do nothing - look the other way. So many back surgeries by ortho that leave the patient worse after surgery, even with a severed spinal cord. There is an excellent neuro surgeon that was dismissed from LSU's faculty. Had a petition in which there were over 10,000 signatures for his reinstatement. Something is terribly wrong when the doctor who has a great outcome after back/neck surg is fired, while the butchers continue. I saw a bar graft where middle Louisiana had more surgeries per 1000 population in 1992. We don't need quantity, we need quality. Get selective, make it hard, and turn out what is required. No more crutches in Med school. All apps should be drug tested and if there is any history of drug abuse, don't allow admission. Kick out if addiction happens after.
Please don't BUMP up 13.5 year-old threads. The Mods frown on it.
 
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