Prestige and Medical School

[Kong Bu]

It doesn't look to me like this thread has strayed off-topic at all, and you quoted a post agreeing with that notion.

I think that given the fact you're apparently trying to turn an extremely complex question into a yes/no answer, this thread is doing exceptionally well.

Yeah, I realize that a question like this can't be directly answered, but I'm also not turning it into a yes/no one. I'm trying to figure out what most of your opinions are in the ranking of schools. I mean, I'm not looking for an objective answer.

I read your post earlier and I have to agree that there are a lot of different factors like research, faculty, the program quality, etc to pick out, but don't prestigious schools rank high in mostly all those areas anyway? So why not choose a prestigious school over another one? Granted, location and community are a big deal too, and like MossPoh said above, the prestigious schools are cut-throat and there's really nothing else but people competing with each other.

That's why with all these elements combined, I'm wondering if med school applicants look more for a better lifestyle at a med school (location, environment, community) or really a top-notch school? Or does the prestige factor drop in their concerns for what school to attend?

Especially since getting into med school is difficult enough, I figured that prestige doesn't really matter, since getting into a med school is awesome in itself.

Or maybe it just depends on the person...lol

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[mmmcdowe]

Moss never said that all prestigious schools are cut throat competitive. My school is unranked pass/fail for the basic sciences. There's very little competition due to this. Even if people wanted to compete, there's no outlet for it.

 

[MilkmanAl]

there are a lot of different factors like research, faculty, the program quality, etc to pick out, but don't prestigious schools rank high in mostly all those areas anyway? So why not choose a prestigious school over another one?

Well, sort of. The ranking people usually cite is the one published by U.S. News which, from what I understand, is based solely on research money. Faculty at those schools tend to be much more focused on generating research than teaching students in any capacity. The schools also focus on generating research and push it in the curriculum. That focus is often at the cost of clinical education, so if you're not really interested in research, you could probably do a lot better than a highly-ranked (according to U.S. News) med school. The faculty would be more likely to help you along, and the curriculum would probably provide more clinical experience.

Beyond that, you can break down research by subject. I know UAMS has one of the world's leading multiple myeloma facilities. Neurologic, breast cancer, and bone cancer research are also huge here.Consequently, there's a good chance you'd have better access to funding for a MM project here than pretty much anywhere else, so if you're dialed in to one field, the Harvards of the world could be sub-par choices.

In other words, it's going to boil down to what you want to do. If you're all about some research but don't know what to focus on, it's going to be really tough to go wrong spraying apps to all of the heavy-hitters. If you're more on the clinical side of things, you might want to consider other places, and you probably have a lot more investigating to do when choosing a school.

edit: By the way, when discussing private schools, your generalization I quoted probably holds since chances are they have to raise their own funds for facilities and whatnot. For state-funded schools, all bets are off.

 

[searun]

Prestige is overrated.

 

[longhorn09]

I kind of accepted that no matter how prestigious (or otherwise) the name is, how different the program is or how shiny and new a school's buildings are-when I get done in 4 years, I will be a doctor.

So I have been really focused on finding the right "community". It is really amazing the people you meet at the schools. Makes you fall in love with the place and you can actually picture yourself spending the next 4 years or a lifetime there.

But it is kinda hard to figure out if the school has the "right" community for you by just going to the interview or sometime even the second look day.

 

[casillas]

But it is kinda hard to figure out if the school has the "right" community for you by just going to the interview or sometime even the second look day.

True it may be difficult at times to figure out just by spending one day at a school. But there are some schools i have interviewed that i know would probably be last resorts just because I did not feel too comfortable with both the med students i met and the people i was interviewing with. Schools tend to have a general attitude and tend to look for a certain type of student, so I think the people you interact with on interview day are probably a great representation of the rest of the school.

 

[iatros]

Med school is med school.

agreed! although not all are the perfect fit for everyone.

for me it was:

1. the warm fuzzy that makes you excited about it
1 (tied) quality of education - (clinical and post doc opportunities)
2. geographic location
3. cost

ps- i havent seen too many ugly chicks in medical school so that didnt factor on my list.

 

[iatros]

Prestige is overrated.

agreed. prestige means dick.

the best student at Dildo School of Medicine will probably be a better doctor than a dildo student and the Best School of Medicine.

 

[longhorn09]

To me, prestige matters in choose between two schools IF my immigrant parents will be proudly say to my relatives in a foreign country that "My son get into medschool A!" and my oversea relatives will say "Wow school A is really good, congratulation!" versus they just mention that " So, my son get into medschool B.", "that's good. Hold on, what's the name of the school again?"

 

[Algophiliac]

Prestige matters if there's a huge difference in prestige, I think. For example, obviously Harvard is a good option in comparison with some of the state schools (with the exception of UC and some other excellent state schools, of course). However, if we're talking about minor differences in rankings, I really don't think it matters that much. A factor most students will probably be considering more heavily is cost.

Aside from cost, there are of course the various different programs available, match lists, and other differences (such as research, elective courses, early patient contact, etc), which may be more important for particular students in the long run.

 

[longhorn09]

Prestige matters if there's a huge difference in prestige, I think. For example, obviously Harvard is a good option in comparison with some of the state schools (with the exception of UC and some other excellent state schools, of course). However, if we're talking about minor differences in rankings, I really don't think it matters that much. A factor most students will probably be considering more heavily is cost.

Aside from cost, there are of course the various different programs available, match lists, and other differences (such as research, elective courses, early patient contact, etc), which may be more important for particular students in the long run.

I agree. I don't like PBL in particular so it's a big factor for me.

 

[MSSM2013]

To me, prestige matters in choose between two schools IF my immigrant parents will be proudly say to my relatives in a foreign country that "My son get into medschool A!" and my oversea relatives will say "Wow school A is really good, congratulation!" versus they just mention that " So, my son get into medschool B.", "that's good. Hold on, what's the name of the school again?"

sounds like michigan isn't for you eh?

 

[Dr Lyss]

I agree. I don't like PBL in particular so it's a big factor for me.

I don't know why people hate PBL so much... I'll take an hour of PBL over an hour of lecture any day


there's a lot of good reasons to pick a school. Prestige is not one of them. It can help you decide between schools but if that's the only thing good about the school, you'll be disappointed.

For me it was: 1) resources 2) location 3) curriculum 4) prestige/reputation

I'm happy with the way it worked out.

 

[mmmcdowe]

I don't know why people hate PBL so much... I'll take an hour of PBL over an hour of lecture any day


there's a lot of good reasons to pick a school. Prestige is not one of them. It can help you decide between schools but if that's the only thing good about the school, you'll be disappointed.

For me it was: 1) resources 2) location 3) curriculum 4) prestige/reputation

I'm happy with the way it worked out.

I don't know why people care one way or another when they haven't experienced medical school education anyways. I'd take any method of instruction and a slap in the face from the instructor with a thank you for both.

 

[FluffyRabbit]

I don't know why people care one way or another when they haven't experienced medical school education anyways. I'd take any method of instruction and a slap in the face from the instructor with a thank you for both.

You need to experience medical school before you can decide whether you'd prefer having lecture or small group discussions? They're quite different...

 

[mmmcdowe]

You need to experience medical school before you can decide whether you'd prefer having lecture or small group discussions? They're quite different...

Yes. Medical lectures and medical PBL are not the same thing as in undergrad (also small group isn't the same as PBL. I'm talking bout wanna be House PBL. I personally never experience any form of PBL in undergrad.). One might like small groups for undergrad, but under the torrent of info might rather study on their own in undergrad. You have to feel the flood to understand how to cope with it, and you will cope regardless of your school's teaching style.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Yeah, I'd definitely have to agree on that count. However, I still wouldn't want to do PBL. It sounds to me like they only have classes set up so you can prove you read the relevant review book sections. I'd rather at least have the illusion that my tuition is going towards something other than that for the first 2 years.

 

[brooklynblunder]

why the **** not

1. cost
2. location (after accounting for the cost of living, preferably a city but im down for whatever)
3. as long as lectures aren't all mandatory

if all those are same amongst medical schools then i would go into the other ****. but paying back loans <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


people only account for tuition loans (and maybe cost of living) but you will be hard pressed to pay back your loans during residency and you are gonna want a house or a family or both then you are gonna take out bigger loans/mortgage. you might not be looking at those things but ppl will always their property to others'

also weddings are expensive. if you are a woman that wants to have a same-sex marriage things could get extra expensive. and then you have a kid and you miss work. ouch

 

[Tatastrophy]

But it is kinda hard to figure out if the school has the "right" community for you by just going to the interview or sometime even the second look day.

Oh but if you pay specific attention-you will be surprised by how much you end up learning about the people that are part of the school.
Give it a try-you can read about how great the school is anywhere, instead of trying to remember all those things during your interview day-pay attention to the way people speak of each other, what is important to them personally and how they treat you in situations where they are not required to act a certain way.
Or don't. I found it helpful.

 

[Bbon]

I think prestige should definitely be a factor. But of course it's only a factor and not a trump card over everything else. And particularly, if they're comparable (both top 10 schools, 11-20, etc.), the slight differences have pretty much no bearing for me. I have a lot of criteria, including how they grade (p/f first 2 years ideal), availability and accessibility of research opportunities, strength of their pediatric programs, the students (both if they seem like people I'd get along with and whether they look happy), location, cost, curriculum if it's truly unique (i.e. shortened pre-clinical), and I also prefer schools that either don't require research, or if they do, they set aside time for you to do it. Seems kind of a pain to have to produce some kind of "scholarly project" while you're doing traditional med school work at the same time. To each his own though.. you should figure out what's important to you.

 

[MSSM2013]

prestiges are underrated in pre allo.

 

[flip26]

prestiges are underrated in pre allo.

I get the opposite impression from reading the posts of premeds to current med students to residents and attendings - the importance of prestige goes from being overrated in pre allo and steadily declines to a more even weighting as one progresses through the system.

 

[dw2158]

i'll bite.

prestige was a factor in my choosing which schools to apply to, and i have no shame about that. as far as choosing where to go... i'll wait until i actually have more than one option but things i will consider:

1. location
2. warm fuzzies when i visited ("fit," whatever the hell that means)
3. curriculum structure
4. prestige
5. cost

flame away for cost being last on my list.

 

[flip26]

i'll bite.

prestige was a factor in my choosing which schools to apply to, and i have no shame about that. as far as choosing where to go... i'll wait until i actually have more than one option but things i will consider:

1. location
2. warm fuzzies when i visited ("fit," whatever the hell that means)
3. curriculum structure
4. prestige
5. cost

flame away for cost being last on my list.

I more or less agree with your list, and I actually think that cost is very important, but there is nothing wrong with placing it "last" or viewing it as the tiebreaker or final factor to consider.

In other words, set cost aside and come up with a rank order of your other factors. Then put the final ranking to the cost test, and then evaluate if the added cost "worth it" or not.

That may not have been your intent, but that is how I intend to factor in cost: after I have ranked schools without consideration to cost.

 

[dw2158]

I more or less agree with your list, and I actually think that cost is very important, but there is nothing wrong with placing it "last" or viewing it as the tiebreaker or final factor to consider.

In other words, set cost aside and come up with a rank order of your other factors. Then put the final ranking to the cost test, and then evaluate if the added cost "worth it" or not.

That may not have been your intent, but that is how I intend to factor in cost: after I have ranked schools without consideration to cost.

that is precisely what i meant. i'm not going to choose a school i liked less because it's cheaper, but all else being equal i'd probably go with the cheaper school.

 

[TheMightySmiter]

Prestige is a factor, I think, but for me, cost and location and my own "feel" about a school will probably be more important when I'm deciding where to apply. I'll be honest, if I got accepted both to Harvard and my state school (meaningless hypothetical because the former will never happen), I'd probably choose Harvard unless I got a really bad feeling about the place. But when it comes down to it, an MD is an MD and the prestige of the school won't help me if I'm unhappy living somewhere.

 

[flip26]

that is precisely what i meant. i'm not going to choose a school i liked less because it's cheaper, but all else being equal i'd probably go with the cheaper school.

Yes, I agree.

So at the end of the process, assuming I have more than one acceptance to evaluate, I will make a cold sober judgment RE cost versus all my other factors, and the gut check will be how much additional debt am I willing to take on for a school I rate higher.

Back to this thread: To 'pay up' much for prestige alone seems a little strange to me, which is what many on this thread are saying. But to pay up for location and fit, and to a lesser extent curriculum features I think I want, does make sense to me.

 

[psipsina]

I think whats most important is where you can be HAPPY. If knowing that you're school is #amazing ranked will make you truly happy for the next four years then it should be a major priority. I found that general vibe (did I fit with the people I met), location (outside school activities, job for my husband, affordable housing), and curriculum (NOT PBL) were more important to me. Prestige does have its merits. When you apply for residency you will need letters of rec again and if they come from big names in your field that's good (not that lower ranked schools don't have big names but there is a higher density of big names at big important research schools). If you know for sure that you want a less competitive specialty thats less important but anyone who knows for sure what they want before matriculating and sticks with it is a rare being in my experience.