Prestige of Anesthesiology residency vs. future job?

[joethestuff]

I know for academic medicine the prestige of residency training is paramount, but for private practice, how important is the prestige of your residency in obtaining choice private practice opportunities?

I know the current hot job market makes this a moot point for current graduates, but it may not be the same in 4 years when I'm done.

In my particular case, an IMG with an out of match anest. offer from a top 4 hospital in the US News rankings and one from a lower-tier Univ. based program (more convenient location). Honestly, the training seems the same, but does the "name" carry the day?

I need advice!

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[Goofy]

Originally posted by joethestuff:
•I know for academic medicine the prestige of residency training is paramount, but for private practice, how important is the prestige of your residency in obtaining choice private practice opportunities?

I know the current hot job market makes this a moot point for current graduates, but it may not be the same in 4 years when I'm done.

In my particular case, an IMG with an out of match anest. offer from a top 4 hospital in the US News rankings and one from a lower-tier Univ. based program (more convenient location). Honestly, the training seems the same, but does the "name" carry the day?

I need advice!•••

Although there are numerous anesthesiology jobs to be had, the choice spots go to the ivy leaguers hands down. There are a lot of jobs out there, some are good. But the best ones, with the fewest hours and call, and best salary with partnership track are not nearly as abundant.

Gaswork.com demonstrates the sheer need for anesthesiologists. But these jobs are the 'crappy' ones. I would add that some of these 'crappy' jobs are pretty decent. But if you are looking for a top tier position at a choice location, you must be graduating from a top program.

Many practices wont even interview you if your not from an ivy league program. The Img stigma is sometimes difficult to overcome, but if you are coming from a name brand program, you should be ok.

 

[joethestuff]

Thanks Klebsiella,

Quick question: When you use the term Ivy League, is that a generic term to represent all top programs in US News, because only two of the "honor roll" hospitals listed in US News is associated with an Ivy League school (Mass General, Brigham & Womens)

Thanks again

 

[Goofy]

Originally posted by joethestuff:
•Thanks Klebsiella,

Quick question: When you use the term Ivy League, is that a generic term to represent all top programs in US News, because only two of the "honor roll" hospitals listed in US News is associated with an Ivy League school (Mass General, Brigham & Womens)

Thanks again•••

I wouldn't rely on US news for information about the medical world. Their algorithms are whimsical and are usually an outsiders view. Speak with as many anesthesiologists that you can to get a hold of to determine what the top programs are. Upenn and Mt. Sinai are at the top of the list but there are obviously many other 'top' programs.

One thing to remember about some of these programs though, is the name isn't everything. Mass general has a reputation for being very malignant to residents. Whereas a place like Penn works you, but is far less 'malignant.' In the end, you want to be at a name brand program.

 

[joethestuff]

Again thanks, Klebsiella, unfortunately, as an IMG I am often out of the loop. For example, the only anesthesiologists I know are from the "lesser" program that has made me an offer (and where I did my rotations)--makes it kinda difficult, huh?

Also, while US News is obviously flawed, its the only thing I (and many people outside the loop) have to go on. Mt. Sinai, although I'm sure it is a fine school, it isn't really on the radar screen as a super elite program in my neck of the woods (Penn only because it's Ivy).

As you look at the US News top 5, which programs are not worthy of their rank? Again, the bottom line for me is, will I be in position to attain a choice private practice spot when the tide inevitably turns downward in Anest. in 4 years.

 

[Goofy]

Originally posted by joethestuff:
•Again thanks, Klebsiella, unfortunately, as an IMG I am often out of the loop. For example, the only anesthesiologists I know are from the "lesser" program that has made me an offer (and where I did my rotations)--makes it kinda difficult, huh?

Also, while US News is obviously flawed, its the only thing I (and many people outside the loop) have to go on. Mt. Sinai, although I'm sure it is a fine school, it isn't really on the radar screen as a super elite program in my neck of the woods (Penn only because it's Ivy).

As you look at the US News top 5, which programs are not worthy of their rank? Again, the bottom line for me is, will I be in position to attain a choice private practice spot when the tide inevitably turns downward in Anest. in 4 years.•••


Joe,

I am having a bit of trouble discerning your particular situation. I am not aware of specific US news rankings. If they are your only source, discard it. There are other ways to get this valueable information. I suspect that this board has many anesthesiologists that can provide you with specific information.

Regardless of what US news says, Mt sinai is a very well respected Anesthesia program. Many insiders consider it the best in New York. You are using a very poor source for this kind of information. Discard it. You are much more likely to glean meaningful information here.

Again, if you want a choice slot, aim for a name brand. The lower tier jobs are still pretty good given the current job climate, but still don't offer the same kind of compensation, location and hours that a top tier position would offer. There are worse things than earning 250,000+ with 2 calls a week I suppose

In any case, it seems anesthesia is a wildly popular field this year, so I wish you the best of luck.

In terms of future considerations, the best thing you can do is gut it out an extra year and do a fellowship. Most residents are declining to work instead, a big mistake in my opinion. An extra year of fellowship is enormous insultation against the inevitable slowdown in anesthesia. You will be much more marketable. These fellowships are fairly easy to get, even at great places at the moment. It will be an invaluable addition to your resume, most immediately noticed when the market predictably goes sour.

Best of luck

 

[joethestuff]

Never said Mt. Sinai wasn't well respected, just not viewed as an elite program by the many # of anesthesiologists i spoke with. Actually, it was never mentioned at all--the Anest. I speak with constantly reference the hospitals listed on the US News 'honor roll' as what is considered "elite". Granted, most of the Anest. I speak with are not from the northeast corridor and come from a less than elite med. school, but thats all I have to go on.

You're correct, there are no anesthesiology specific rankings, and thats the problem, I have very little to go on, except the attendings recruiting me. Being a poor ($) US IMG without a Dr. in family and no stateside med. school mentors to talk to , I don't have a great deal of resources to draw on for info, so sorry for my lack of sophistication in not knowing Mt. Sinai is so elite, especially for anesthesiology. All I have is elite level USMLE scores and outstanding LOR's from solid, but no big name attendings. Really, that's about as good as it gets for poor ($) US IMG's like myself.

Question: Is it safe to assume for the losers like me that an anest. residency from a top 5 hospital in the US News 'honor roll' rankings carries enough cachet to land a choice private practice position?

 

[Goofy]

Originally posted by joethestuff:
•Never said Mt. Sinai wasn't well respected, just not viewed as an elite program by the many # of anesthesiologists i spoke with. Actually, it was never mentioned at all--the Anest. I speak with constantly reference the hospitals listed on the US News 'honor roll' as what is considered "elite". Granted, most of the Anest. I speak with are not from the northeast corridor and come from a less than elite med. school, but thats all I have to go on.

You're correct, there are no anesthesiology specific rankings, and thats the problem, I have very little to go on, except the attendings recruiting me. Being a poor ($) US IMG without a Dr. in family and no stateside med. school mentors to talk to , I don't have a great deal of resources to draw on for info, so sorry for my lack of sophistication in not knowing Mt. Sinai is so elite, especially for anesthesiology. All I have is elite level USMLE scores and outstanding LOR's from solid, but no big name attendings. Really, that's about as good as it gets for poor ($) US IMG's like myself.

Question: Is it safe to assume for the losers like me that an anest. residency from a top 5 hospital in the US News 'honor roll' rankings carries enough cachet to land a choice private practice position?•••


Hi Joe,

It depends which hospital you are talking about. If you share with us the name, I might be of some assistance.

I wouldn't be too hard on yourself. There are obviously many excellent IMG's out there. You have completed a rigorous training and have done well on the boards. The biggest stumbling block for IMG's isn't their lack of smarts or training, contrary to popular belief. It's federal reimbursement programs that effectively 'bribe' residencies to take US grads first. If a program takes an IMG, they are basically giving up several hundred thousand dollars PER STUDENT over the course of a residency. The troubles IMG's face has nothing at all do with their smarts per se. It has do with money I'm sorry to say.

Having said that, you seem like a competitive applicant. Anesthesia still has many slots, and the chances are decent that you should be able to land a good slot. Go to the best possible place, and give serious consideration to doing a fellowship. This would be an excellent way to get a top name on your CV, as top fellowships seem much easier to come by for IMG's.

Good luck

 

[Sandpaper]

Originally posted by joethestuff:
•Again thanks, Klebsiella, unfortunately, as an IMG I am often out of the loop. For example, the only anesthesiologists I know are from the "lesser" program that has made me an offer (and where I did my rotations)--makes it kinda difficult, huh?

Also, while US News is obviously flawed, its the only thing I (and many people outside the loop) have to go on. Mt. Sinai, although I'm sure it is a fine school, it isn't really on the radar screen as a super elite program in my neck of the woods (Penn only because it's Ivy).

As you look at the US News top 5, which programs are not worthy of their rank? Again, the bottom line for me is, will I be in position to attain a choice private practice spot when the tide inevitably turns downward in Anest. in 4 years.•••

Dude, what top 5 man? US News has no such rankings for anesthesia. Hell, some of the poorly ranked schools on their list offers some of the best training in anesthesia (e.g. University of Alabama-Birmingham, Wake Forest, University of Wisconsin-Madison, University of Florida etc.)

Coming out of an Ivy League school or other top-notch undergraduateinstitutions definitely won't hurt your prospect with potential employers, but in terms of quality training, you may not get the best at the Ivy Leagues. Johns Hopkins' anesthesia program sucks, ditto for Washington University. I could list a few more schools, but you get the gist.

Name is good, but don't get caught up too much in it.

 

[gasrx]

Sandpaper...Just wondering why you think Hopkins anesthesia sucks. Was there last week and thought that it was pretty impressive. Did you heard something different?

 

[Sandpaper]

Gasman, my info are from secondary sources like past graduates, word of mouth kinda deal. Of the 9 people who applied to anesthesia from my school this year, only one person even cared to apply to Hopkins. We hear over the grapevine that they work the hell out of their residents, with little attending support. Scutwork is heavy, and respect is very little from surgeons. Why get your ass kicked there when you can be at a chill place like Florida and learn just as much? Additionally, Hopkins is an academic institution heavy on research but shoddy in teaching. The hospital here recently fired an anesthesiologist from Hopkins because of his notorious incompetence. (They tried to hold on to him due to the labor shortage, but dismissed him after he killed a patient.) It is said that they turn out decent academian, but subpar clinicians. And that's all folks.