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Pritzker v. Dartmouth v. UC Irvine

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by sagemedecon, May 7, 2007.

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Pritzker v. Dartmouth v. UC Irvine

Poll closed May 17, 2007.
  1. Priztker

    55 vote(s)
    59.8%
  2. Dartmouth

    12 vote(s)
    13.0%
  3. UC Irvine

    25 vote(s)
    27.2%
  1. sagemedecon

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    Hey Everyone - I could really use some help deciding between these three schools. I'm trying to think about this as objectively as possible. Please let me know if you think there is something I'm not considering or if you think I have these schools summed up unfairly. I've been to all three re-visits.

    Cost: Irvine wins. Over four years I'm looking at an additional $50k to attend Dartmouth over Irvine and $70k to attend Pritzker over Irvine. This is factoring both tuition and some gauge of cost of living expenses. Of course it isn't just the base amount that matters but also the interest on this money.

    Quality of Clinical Training: I think Pritzker>>Irvine>Dartmouth. I'm worried about the patient population at Dartmouth (the ER certainly doesn't have the gun and knife crowd) and the diseases I'm likely to see won't be the same as at either Chicago or Irvine. Does this even matter as a med student? Is this only a factor for residency? I also don't really like the idea of having to do away rotations in the third year at Dartmouth - I'm inclined to think a home program faculty is better than these other rotations - but someone correct me if they think this is untrue. Pritzker supposedly has one of the highest step 2 scores which I guess is a reflection of clinical training. All of the students I talked to at Pritzker and Dartmouth seemed to think they were treated well and for the most part "protected from scut." I didn't really get to talk to many 3rd/4th years at Irvine so I'm having a hard time gauging this here. No overnight call at Pritzker so thumbs up for that, but Dartmouth does have really nice on call rooms.

    Quality of Pre-clinical training: I'm inclined to think Dartmouth wins here. Faculty seem really dedicated to students and are at Dartmouth b/c they love teaching. They seem to have good Step 1 prep and Irvine seem to be relatively good in this department as well although I think Step 1 scores are higher at Dartmouth (I know Dartmouth's most recent average but not Irvine's) although I imagine as others have said that this might just be a selection problem rather than either of these schools performance. I heard a fair number of complaints at Pritzker about pre-clinical training; that said they seem to be taking steps to improve that although it seemed uncertain how many of those changes would influence my first year class. Step 1 scores are admittedly disappointing for the quality of students coming into Pritzker - I've heard a variety of explanations for why that is and comments pointing to the quality of the match. I think I could probably use a bit of guidance on step 1 but no matter where I go obviously I'm going to do my best to do well so that my score doesn't close any doors on potential specialties.

    Match: These are notoriously difficult to read but my impression is that Pritzker>Dartmouth>Irvine. I'm inclined to think that if I do well at any of these schools I can match wherever I want but there is less leeway to be average at Irvine than at the other schools.

    Research: Seems most accessible at Pritzker but if you are proactive at the other schools I imagine this can be easily done. Pritzker and Dartmouth also have the best opportunities for health economics research which I am very interested in.

    MD/MBA: I think I want to do this program but am not completely positive. In this case Chicago and Dartmouth are equal (both fantastic), and Irvine while it has a program the name of the school doesn't carry much weight.

    P/F/Honors: Pritzker is P/F the others P/F/Honors. Point for Pritzker.

    Living Preferences: I think I could be happy anywhere. Irvine is certainly the easiest move for me and has the best weather. I'm a little worried about Hyde Park and feeling comfortable and safe there.

    Quality of Other Grad Programs: I care about this both in terms of meeting other people outside of med school and in terms of maybe finding a husband - but I'm probably getting way ahead of myself here. Chicago wins here I think: top 10 business and law school and arguably the best econ grad program in the country not to mention a slew of other amazing graduate programs. Dartmouth has Tuck and the engineering school but in general there isn't a huge graduate population and as Dartmouth is a little remote I'm a little worried about being isolated.

    Prestige: This has been argued about at length on these boards. I'm sure it matters a little but how much I'm not sure. Pritzker>Dartmouth>Irvine.

    My problem here is how to weight all of these factors. Should cost really be the overriding factor? At what price are the other schools worth it over Irvine? I think I could be happy anywhere. Irvine is a fantastic school with what seems like a really good support system and from what I saw of the faculty I liked. Anything else I should consider? Where would you pick? Sorry for the long post any insight is appreciated.

    [anyone know how I can edit the poll to fix Pritzker?]
     
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  3. cnoevil

    cnoevil good with kids
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    eny meany miny mo..
     
  4. Falco2525

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    Chicago MD/MBA >>>>Dartmouth MD/MBA....
    Chicago has one of the best if not the best MBA program in the nation
    Step 1 is around the national average at Pritzker but their Step 2 scores
    are in the top 4 in the nation which is a reflection of the clinical training they receive thus Pritzker Clinical training is better...also Pritzker gets better residencies than the others because of the respect residency directors have for Pritzker's clinical training
     
  5. argonana

    argonana SDN Donor
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    IMO, UC Irvine wins easily over Dartmouth. Better location and weather, solid curriculum and board scores, similar level of prestige. You could always pursue your MBA elsewhere if you wanted to.

    Pritzker vs. UC Irvine is a much tougher choice. I voted for Pritzker. Chicago has outstanding grad programs all around, great clinical training and research opportunities, and wonderful students. However, I would imagine that some students would be happier, and might therefore perform better, at Irvine than Pritzker. Where did you feel most at home? Which school are you most excited about? A lot of your medical school experience will depend on you, so I can't emphasize how important it is to honestly assess where it is that you'd feel the most comfortable and enthusiastic. If those two sentiments point to different schools, then think about what makes you "tick"/drives you further--a sense of excitement or a sense of comfort? Can you envision yourself having a support system and forming lasting friendships in both places? Where will you be less likely to burn out?
     
  6. sagemedecon

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    That is simply not true. Various rankings have put both Chicago Business school and Tuck in the number one spot. I think it was last year WSJ put Tuck at number one. I believe Buisnessweek currently has Chicago number one. They are right next to each other on US News and World Report this year. Both are fantastic. I think you'd be hard pressed to argue a quality differential between the two.

    Check out this link for a comparision of the various rankings (it is a couple years old but still paints a good picture):
    http://www.bschool.com/ussbys.html
     
  7. Doctor~Detroit

    Doctor~Detroit this poll sux!!!
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    i think if the biggest difference in money is 70k, then money shouldn't be a big factor here.

    from talking to current students, i've come to view the first two years at pritzker as 'taking your medicine.' they don't teach to the boards or provide board-style exams, so this means that studying for the usmle 1 will be more of a pain, but you'll be better at taking a critical-thinking approach to patients on the wards for the rest of your career.

    so the issue i see isn't whether pritzker provides great training, but whether i want to make the sacrifices that go along with it (when i could instead be at a school with fewer class hours and easier multiple-choice exams in the first two years, and spend less time preparing for board-style questions).
     
  8. sagemedecon

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    Really??? 70K seems like a lot of money to me. It isn't just 70k, it is that plus interest on that money. It's not as if Irvine is free and I'm just paying 70K to attend Pritzker over four years. I'm looking at the full cost of each of these schools - my aid packages at the moment are all loans. 70K is just the differential on what is already an expensive education.
    At what price is Pritzker no longer worth it if you think 70K isn't a big enough difference?
     
  9. pennybridge

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    it's a good thing you're looking into an MBA :laugh:


    if you want to do anything besides primary care, go to pritzker. If you want to do primary care, go to the cheapest school.

    personally, as a CA resident, I would err on the side of being in CA, but Irvine bugs the hell out of me, so it would be a tough choice. I say Pritzker.
     
  10. sagemedecon

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    Irvine the city bugs you or the school? If it is the school then what about it don't you like?
     
  11. pennybridge

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    the medical school.


    look up UC Irvine and "liver transplant"
     
  12. DropkickMurphy

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    Irvine, simply because of cost, despite its location.
     
  13. Doctor~Detroit

    Doctor~Detroit this poll sux!!!
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    i know that 70k is the difference. but yeah, i should have said that money shouldn't be a *huge* factor, as in let other considerations hold sway. for me around 100k is where a money difference starts to buy my happiness. so if irvine were 100k cheaper i'd go with them. 70k is more of a gray area. did pritzker offer you any low-interest, institutional loans?

    keep in mind that i and other sdn-ers think that pritzker's room+board budget is inflated. if you live like a student, i and others think you will do okay in chicago on 15k per year, not the 17k+ they budget for you.

    also keep in mind that if i go to pritzker i'll be looking to be someone's baby-daddy. you can't put a price on that. ;)
     
  14. sagemedecon

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    Yes I'm aware of both the problems with the transplant program and those in the anesthetia department. Can any current students (preferably 3rd or 4th years) comment on whether this has had any impact on the clinical training?
     
  15. sagemedecon

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    Anyone else have any other thoughts?
     
  16. Old ortho

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    After thinking about a scoring system in case of multiple acceptances, I did a spreadsheet recently to assign points for 4 criteria in selecting med schools:

    1. Quality of program and reputation of school: 55%
    2. Location: 15%
    3. Culture: 15%
    4. Expenses: 15%

    This is only my opinion and of course you can assign different points yourself. It seems that the majority people at SDN also give the most points to no. 1 - they picked Chicago based on the fact that its superior quality of program carries more weight than the other factors. Do this yourself and see what scores you come up with.
     
  17. sagemedecon

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    Can any 3rd and 4th years at Irvine comment on the clinical training? Any students thinking about Irvine hear anything more about these years?
     
  18. blantant

    blantant Fake-Doctor
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    you have a hard decision to face come the 15th. i'd say pritzker over irvine unless cost is really a top priority.

    btw, i had my interview in the ousted CEO's office. bad vibes.
     
  19. sagemedecon

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    anyone have any other thoughts . . . the end is near and I'm really no closer to a decision . . .
     
  20. Old ortho

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    My vote:

    Pritzer > Irvine = Dartmouth
     
  21. Doctor~Detroit

    Doctor~Detroit this poll sux!!!
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    i've already indicated that the pre-clinical training at pritzker is solid (just not the best usmle prep) and an extra 70k shouldn't keep you from going there if that's what you want.

    otherwise, i'd lean toward irvine because you'd be saving money for better weather (and the mba idea seems tentative). i mean, you're from cali, right? have you experienced a midwest or new england winter? it's not fun.
     
  22. sagemedecon

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    Alright the hours are dwindling . . . any thoughts on why in another thread Davis and Pritzker are polling evenly but in mine Pritzker seems to have the edge? Am I crazy for leaning Irvine at the moment? (As an asside I would be saving 70K + cost of living - I was wrong above, 70k is just my tuition differential) I say I'm leaning Irvine but a couple of hours ago I thought both of the other two. Any last thoughts? It seems like Irvine and Dartmouth both have more lecture resources (taped lectures/online components etc) should this factor into my decision?
     
  23. sagemedecon

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    One more quick question. Do you guys think it is bad for a school not to let you move one of the required clerkships to the fourth year so you could potentiall try out for example rads/optho/derm/anesthesia in the 3rd year? How important is this?
     
  24. pennybridge

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    wow it's like you just learned about the ROAD to happiness.... :rolleyes:
     
  25. sagemedecon

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    Well I've always know about the road (my dad is a physician) - but it is hard to know what specialty you want if you haven't really rotated through it - if I get to the third year and think based on what I saw in my pre-clinical years that one of those might be interesting I think I'd like the chance to do a rotation in it. Anesthesia isn't a 3rd year rotation at Irvine which it is at other med schools.
     
  26. cetaphil

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  27. sagemedecon

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    At Pritzker I was told on my interview day that you could move psych or family med to the 4th year and do one of the electives in the 3rd year. Dartmouth told me that it could be done as well w/ a little bit of planning. Can anyone confirm that I have this right? Dartmouth I'm positive b/c I just asked last week.

    Although I just went through Irvine's website and it appears you can petition to move one of the required clerkships to the 4th year so the point is a mute one. It appears to be possible at all of the schools.
     
  28. j60506d

    j60506d New Member

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    At Pritzker, you are allowed to defer Family Medicine till your 4th year. In its place, you get to do Neurology + any one of the following:

    Ophthalmology, Radiation Oncology, Radiology, Surgical Pathology, Dermatology

    Oh, and Anesthesia/Pain Management is built in to the Surgery Clerkship.
     

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