Private Practice: A Word of Caution

[wesleysmith]

"No. Changing the way we view people living in poverty is not going to put food on their table. But it's a convenient way for you to not have to do anything about it, and that is what he means by status quo."

Actually, labeling theory would beg to differ.

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[erg923]

"This is either an extremely myopic view of the issue or demonstrates poor reading comprehension on your part. Viewing them as "powerless" IS the problem. And it what this whole thread has been about."

No. Changing the way we view people living in poverty is not going to put food on their table. But it's a convenient way for you to not have to do anything about it, and that is what he means by status quo.

Wanna help? Grab a laddle and get to know someone. My wife and I do it every week. What do you do? I repeat, what social justice work are you actually DOING?

I am getting tired of hearing your incessant ranting about this topic with no mention of any actual behavioral involvment with the people you keep talking about.

Quit writing about "fairness," victimization, and socialist nonsense and get to know your fellow brothers and sisters. If you did this, you might find that they aren't as "powerless" as you seem to want to make them. I have yet to meet a person down at the Cathedral soup kitchen that has found being stripped of their power and told "the cards are stacked against you" to be functionally helpful in actually improving their situations/lives. The per usual response is generally more along the lines of: "Nobody every belived in me until I started coming here. Thank you for helping me and making believe in myself again."

PS: I didn't read the remainder of your post after the quote section, and I doubt many other posters did either.

 

[Triken]

Right now I'm doing case management. I'm signing my clients up for food stamps, working to get them transportation, working to get them home care, while trying to meet the demands of our wealthy donors. I'm also sitting down and listening, offering support and encouragement, and building a relationship of trust where they know that if I can do something to help them I will.

But case management is a band-aid. I don't doubt I am doing important and meaningful work when I help a widow who has no source of income be able to afford food for the month, or apply for a life alert bracelet so that when she falls she won't die. But that isn't changing the circumstances that got her into that position in the first place, and more poor widows will continue to emerge in our system, many more than we have the capacity to help. Just as the healthcare industry is stressing preventive care, so am I. I dont want to spend the rest of my life trying to stop the bleeding, I want to prevent the gun shot. Training people to work harder and be smarter isn't the solution. We have to address the structural issues that are unfairly serving the 1% at the expense of others.

Youre a tool and I'm done with you. If you honestly think after all this time that I am advocating we tell people they are powerless as a solution then I am amazed you've managed to comprehend any of my posts (if only the parts you felt like reading).

 

[smalltownpsych]

"This is either an extremely myopic view of the issue or demonstrates poor reading comprehension on your part. Viewing them as "powerless" IS the problem. And it what this whole thread has been about."

No. Changing the way we view people living in poverty is not going to put food on their table. But it's a convenient way for you to not have to do anything about it, and that is what he means by status quo.

I disagree. The first part of change is to change the perceptions. I also suggest doing some research on the culture of poverty and concepts such as generational poverty verses situational poverty. Also, basic learning theory comes into play, behavior that is rewarded becomes reinforced. The more we pay people to be disabled, the more disabled they become. I have been working with the kids that grow up in poverty since 2008, it seems that they are the victims of their parents and even more importantly their parents' culture more than they are the victims of society. You can keep pointing fingers at the rich and powerful and I think there is a shred of truth to it, but I think that you are playing right into their very intentional bread and circus. Obamacare is a great example of how the corporate interests use the well-intentioned help the poor mentality to gain even more power.

 

[smalltownpsych]

It is not about taking the red pill or the blue pill. We need to stop swallowing their pills and wake up to the world of the real.

 

[erg923]

Youre a tool and I'm done with you.

Working with people is frustrating, and if this is how you get when frustrated, you wont be a good a very social worker, nor will you stay employed for long. Think about it. Mmmk?!

If you honestly think after all this time that I am advocating we tell people they are powerless as a solution

This is EXACTLY what you are advocating, son. The system is rigged, you can't help yourself, thus I have to change the system for you/on your behalf. This is what you are advocating.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Here is a real solution that would help the people in our country. Take half of the money that we give to the disabled and use it to build a modern high speed rail network throughout the country and make sure that not one or two entities are in charge and that the jobs that are created are union scale. Oh and we should probably break up the current rail monopolies again. How is that for real solutions?

 

[smalltownpsych]

Also if you keep working with people then you might begin seeing that the disability system and the tax return check system might be more destructive to your clients than are the rich and powerful corporations.

 

[erg923]

Here is a real solution that would help the people in our country. Take half of the money that we give to the disabled and use it to build a modern high speed rail network throughout the country and make sure that not one or two entities are in charge and that the jobs that are created are union scale. Oh and we should probably break up the current rail monopolies again. How is that for real solutions?

At its height, Standard Oil was worth the equivalant of over 100Billion dollars. It took 3 generations of Rockeffler's do give away this fortune. I think one thing we often forget as we demonize the rich, is that it allows for some great acts of voluntarily wealth distribution that other wise would have gotten lost in the mix. That, and it should serve as a motivator and model work ethic. John Rockfeller's father was a struggling conman and his mother often relied on the charity of others in their earlier years.

 

[erg923]

Also if you keep working with people then you might begin seeing that the disability system and the tax return check system might be more destructive to your clients than are the rich and powerful corporations.

Whachya talkin about Willis? Didn't you know that the Department of Veterans Affairs exemplary Compensation and Pension system fixes all the ills of veteran's wayward life?!

 

[smalltownpsych]

At its height, Standard Oil was worth the equivelant of over 100Billion dollars. It took 3 generations of Rockeffler's do give away this fortune. I think one thing we often forget as we demonize the rich, is that it allows for some great acts of voluntarily wealth distribution that other wise would have gotten lost in the mix. That at it should serve as a motivator and model work ethic. John Rockfeller's father was a struggling conman and his mother often relied on the charity of others in their earlier years.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't demonize the rich, I just think that government has a role in limiting their ability to monopolize industries. After all, when the government says that they are going after the rich, they are usually not going after the real wealthy, they are usually trying to take my money. I worked really hard to make the income that I make and believe that I should be rewarded for it. So did the Rockefellers and Morgans and Hughes. They also created lots of jobs. I was just meeting with an 87 year old who went to work for Hughes during WWII - some cool stories she has to tell about those times. I have personally seen the benefits of breaking up Bell telephone and what that has led to. That is much different than advocating socialism or Robin Hood policies.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Whachya talkin about Willis? Didn't you know that the Department of Veterans Affairs exemplary Compensation and Pension system fixes all the ills of veteran's wayward live's?!

lol maybe they could rename it to Compensation, Rehabilitation, And Pension. C.R.A.P. Then the vets lives would improve!

 

[Triken]

haha so funny

A better example: Super computers and the stock market. Only the 1% can afford computers fast enough to give them a competitive edge. More money = More money. Free market at its finest.

 

[erg923]

haha so funny

A better example: Super computers and the stock market. Only the 1% can afford computers fast enough to give them a competitive edge. More money = More money. Free market at its finest.

I saw that 60 minutes piece. I remember thinking that is so genius, they deserve that money....that is, until someone develops a faster computer/program. Competition drives ingenuity. Capitalism is competition.

 

[Triken]

I give up, you win.

 

[erg923]

Its just that, the way I was raised-the way most Americans are raised, is antithetical to many of your fundamental beliefs. I mean, having money makes it easier to make more money?! Uh, yea!! Kinda like 1+1 where I'm from! Yet you act like it's some evil conspiratorial strategy we are trying to keep secret. Lol. What wrong with that, really? Seems just. And it's consistent reinforcement. I mean, what's the alternative? Should having money make it harder to make more money?! WTF, bro?

 

[smalltownpsych]

haha so funny

A better example: Super computers and the stock market. Only the 1% can afford computers fast enough to give them a competitive edge. More money = More money. Free market at its finest.

All you seem to be able to do is point the fingers at problems. What is your solution to this? On the one hand you say socialism and then you say no. I am confused. Are you really unable to see that penalizing success and rewarding failure has problems, too? The reason I keep posting is because I agree with some of your premise, but really want to encourage you to be a bit more original in your thinking. Otherwise the same argument that has led to your frustration will just keep happening.

 

[Triken]

"Are you really unable to see that penalizing success and rewarding failure has problems, too? "

Yes, but you agree that rewarding success and penalizing failure also has problems? If that sounds redundant go back and read my example.

Do you know what power is? Power is the ability to influence somebody else's actions. The ability of the top 1% to control your actions is profound. You should care about this because it is too much power concentrated in too small a location.

It is hypocritical for conservatives to incessently complain about centralized government power while a handful of Americans control the vast majority of it.

The reason they control it is not because they worked harder or smarter than other people. It is because we have an economic system that enables individuals to gain an extraordinarily excessive amount of wealth.

I don't care about socialism, communism, etc. I don't have a simple practical solution. All I know is that the amount of concentrated power in our country is unsustainable and we should be doing something about it.

 

[Mad Jack]

"Are you really unable to see that penalizing success and rewarding failure has problems, too? "

Yes, but you agree that rewarding success and penalizing failure also has problems? If that sounds redundant go back and read my example.

Do you know what power is? Power is the ability to influence somebody else's actions. The ability of the top 1% to control your actions is profound. You should care about this because it is too much power concentrated in too small a location.

It is hypocritical for conservatives to incessently complain about centralized government power while a handful of Americans control the vast majority of it.

The reason they control it is not because they worked harder or smarter than other people. It is because we have an economic system that enables individuals to gain an extraordinary amount of wealth that is entirely disproportionate to their output. It is a myth that our economy is merit based. People who make money are people smart enough to store their funds in Switzerland (that is tongue in cheek, but you take my point).

I don't care about socialism, communism, etc. I don't have a simple practical solution. All I know is that the amount of concentrated power in our country is unsustainable and harmful and we should be doing something about it.

This may sound crazy, but maybe the people who can best use power end up working their way to the top. Look at all those lottery winners that go bankrupt within a year. Many people are at the bottom because they can't handle money and responsibility to begin with. Many at the top got there because they could do precisely those things.

 

[erg923]

I don't care about socialism, communism, etc. I don't have a simple practical solution. All I know is that the amount of concentrated power in our country is unsustainable and we should be doing something about it.

You present inconsistent arguments and positions.

And, no, I do not find a problem with rewarding success and (correcting your statement), "not reinforcing" (rather than "punishment") failure. Your desire to not reward (or minimally reward) success and equally reward failure is irrationale.

 

[Triken]

You think our economic system is about fair competition. It's not. It's about unfair competition.

If you want to take the position that "Life is unfair, get over it" I could at least understand that position, if not agree with the conclusion.

But to argue that we live in a fair economic society is willful ignorance.

P.S. You'd think with all the mentally ill vets in our country you would have something better to do with your time at the VA making $$$ off of my tax dollars. I can't believe I'm paying you to write this crap. Remember when you called your social work colleges over to read my posts while they were at work? You know what they were actually thinking? you know what they actually meant about keeping personal life and work life separate? Use those psychology skills of yours and read between the lines.

 

[erg923]

"Life is unfair, get over it" I could at least understand that position
.

I have told you this multiple times during this conversation.

 

[erg923]

P.S. You'd think with all the mentally ill vets in our country you would have something better to do with your time at the VA making $$$ off of my tax dollars. I can't believe I'm paying you to write this crap. Remember when you called your social work colleges over to read my posts while they were at work? You know what they were actually thinking? you know what they actually meant about keeping personal life and work life separate? Use those psychology skills of yours and read between the lines.

So now you get concerned with how others are spending others money? I see. How ironic.

And yes, I know what they were thinking. They were thinking: "I better come see what my supervisor wants..."

We have an intellectual enviorment here at the VA, and open dialogue about issues facing the mental health practitioner community (psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers, etc.) are openly shared and discussed. My performance evaluation (done just this morning) highligted this as strength of my leadership in this clinic.

 

[Triken]

I promise you your supervisees have no actual respect for you. Calling them over to comment on a message board during work hours? Seriously? No american wants you to be doing this on their dime.

 

[smalltownpsych]

You think our economic system is about fair competition. It's not. It's about unfair competition.

If you want to take the position that "Life is unfair, get over it" I could at least understand that position, if not agree with the conclusion.

But to argue that we live in a fair economic society is willful ignorance.

P.S. You'd think with all the mentally ill vets in our country you would have something better to do with your time at the VA making $$$ off of my tax dollars. I can't believe I'm paying you to write this crap. Remember when you called your social work colleges over to read my posts while they were at work? You know what they were actually thinking? you know what they actually meant about keeping personal life and work life separate? Use those psychology skills of yours and read between the lines.

You might want to ask yourself why you felt the need to escalate the discussion with a personal attack and if that would be an effective way to promote social change?

 

[Triken]

Because I've been getting personally attacked the entire discussion?

 

[erg923]

I promise you your supervisees have no actual respect for you.

Again, your logic here is flawed/faulty. This seems predicated on the assumption that individuals working in my clinic are uninterested in learning, thinking, and talking about issues relevant to mental health service delivery (ie., the scope and mission of SW, for example). Nothing could be further from the truth.

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. I feel lucky to part of healthcare system that does not make us see patients every hour of every day (thats just asking for burnout and poor quality control of services) and provides support for professional peer consultation (such as discussion about training), research, and teaching. If you have a problem with that, you are welcome to write a letter to my boss. I also teach a class at the medical school during my work hours, and I have been known have loooong conversations with my practicum students during work hours too. Mostly about psychology (but also about fine Scotch).

I, and others, have labeled your views as socialism, as have you. We have labeled them as naive, idealistic, impractical, padantic, and pretentious. If this "hurts your feeling" so be it. But we have clearly attacked your views (as stated by you). Nobody gave you a swirly and stole your lunch money. Buck up.

 

[Goobernut]

Triken -- I can tell that you're getting really frustrated with this thread. Honestly, it was an interesting discussion at first, but it's just devolved into a politics debate. My (personal) advice as a non-trad older student to you is that you will never ever win a political debate. Not because you are right or wrong, or how well you present your case, but because of how personally people take their arguments. I am a capitalist yes, partially due to experiences I had living on the economy in a socialist country. I think if you're interested in looking at different capitalistic ideologies, take a look at Japan and how they currently run their system. Also in policy did your class look at Keynesian economics? The biggest intellectual leap for myself came when when I globalized my view. I stopped asking how things worked just for the US, but how other countries are failing/succeeding with their own models. China is an example of communism utopia gone completely wrong, and Mexico is a prime example of laissez-faire capitalism not working out as well as theorists predict it might. It's also a good way to see how different cultural values effect political structure.

I realize that you said your continued discussion wasn't really about capitalism/socialism and I get that. I just felt the need to tell you that not all capitalists are the same hahaha. I have been silent on most of this thread not because I agreed with everyone else. I don't necessarily agree completely with your stance on the future of social work either. I think the discussion got personal and I try to avoid online political debates. They are MUCH more fun in person hahah.

 

[Ecomaster]

Hi I really like to see through that the topic returns to the original question, so correct if I am wrong, was the original question,

Private Practice =/= Social Justice?

I don't have the luxury of reading through 3 pages of text that appeared to really diverged from the original question.

Social Workers are trained professionals with a scope of practice to empower individuals from a biopsychosocial perspective. How you utilized this perspective is up to you (as function of your job). Regardless you are a "therapist," "case manager," "program manager," "victims advocate," "APS/CPS worker," etc. Job title is largely irrelevant, your training, perspective wanting to help others through the SW lens that you are trained IMO is what counts. If you empower others in Private Practice, who is to say you are not helping society contribute to Social Justice? Individuals who achieve more psychosocial adjustment and balance in life will contribute to more meaningful lives with their families, co-workers, friends and society as a whole.

Doesn't mean private practice is the only way to go, I think it is one of the many options that a SW can choose from with the right background and training.