DelAGator

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Hi:
If any of you have friends in any of these Medical School, can you describe (PBL) Problem Based Learning. I know it can mean different things to different schools. I have a list of schools, can you see if anyone of them has PBL?

Allopathic Medical Schools

8 Top Choices
Duke: Durham, NC http://medschool.duke.edu/

Columbia: New York City, NYhttp://cpmcnet.columbia.edu/dept/ps/

Yale: New Haven, CT http://info.med.yale.edu/ysm/

Harvard: Cambridge, MA http://hms.harvard.edu/hms/home.asp

Stanford: Palo Alto, CA http://www.med.stanford.edu/

Northwestern: Chicago, IL http://www.medschool.northwestern.edu/

UCLA: Los Angeles, CA http://dgsom.healthsciences.ucla.edu/

Mayo: Rochester, MN http://www.mayo.edu/mms/md-program.html

12 Choices
UNC: Chapel Hill, NC http://www.med.unc.edu/

Wake Forest: Winston-Salem, NC http://www1.wfubmc.edu/

UF: Gainesville, FL http://www.med.ufl.edu/

Emory: Atlanta, GA http://www.med.emory.edu/index.cfm

Arizona: Tuscon, AZ http://www.medicine.arizona.edu/

Michigan State: East Lansing, MI http://www.chm.msu.edu/chmhome/index.htm

Tulane: New Orleans, LA http://www.mcl.tulane.edu/

Miami: Miami, FL http://www.med.miami.edu/

UMDNJ-Robert Woods Johnson: Newark, NJ http://www4.umdnj.edu/rwjcweb/

Ohio State University: Columbus, OH http://medicine.osu.edu/

USF: Tampa, FL http://com1.med.usf.edu/medicine/

FSU: Tallahassee, FL http://med.fsu.edu/
 

burlypie

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Why don't YOU go to all these nice websites you've listed and read about their curriculum?

At my school we have PBL as a very small component of our curriculum, within our small group sessions. It's the most painful thing ever. Imagine 2.5 hours of your classmates reading from MD Consult printouts on some aspect of a disease. So freakin' boring. Granted, we probably don't do it so seriously because it's such a small part of it all -- so my advice would be to go to a place that does PBL right (if you're interested in it) or not al all.

DelAGator said:
Hi:
If any of you have friends in any of these Medical School, can you describe (PBL) Problem Based Learning. I know it can mean different things to different schools. I have a list of schools, can you see if anyone of them has PBL?

Allopathic Medical Schools

8 Top Choices
Duke: Durham, NC http://medschool.duke.edu/

Columbia: New York City, NYhttp://cpmcnet.columbia.edu/dept/ps/

Yale: New Haven, CT http://info.med.yale.edu/ysm/

Harvard: Cambridge, MA http://hms.harvard.edu/hms/home.asp

Stanford: Palo Alto, CA http://www.med.stanford.edu/

Northwestern: Chicago, IL http://www.medschool.northwestern.edu/

UCLA: Los Angeles, CA http://dgsom.healthsciences.ucla.edu/

Mayo: Rochester, MN http://www.mayo.edu/mms/md-program.html

12 Choices
UNC: Chapel Hill, NC http://www.med.unc.edu/

Wake Forest: Winston-Salem, NC http://www1.wfubmc.edu/

UF: Gainesville, FL http://www.med.ufl.edu/

Emory: Atlanta, GA http://www.med.emory.edu/index.cfm

Arizona: Tuscon, AZ http://www.medicine.arizona.edu/

Michigan State: East Lansing, MI http://www.chm.msu.edu/chmhome/index.htm

Tulane: New Orleans, LA http://www.mcl.tulane.edu/

Miami: Miami, FL http://www.med.miami.edu/

UMDNJ-Robert Woods Johnson: Newark, NJ http://www4.umdnj.edu/rwjcweb/

Ohio State University: Columbus, OH http://medicine.osu.edu/

USF: Tampa, FL http://com1.med.usf.edu/medicine/

FSU: Tallahassee, FL http://med.fsu.edu/
 

Benzo4every1

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PBL folks don't do well on Step 1.
My school curriculum had PBL at the end of first and second years as small group sessions in the afternoon. We had a case study, divvied up learning issues and then regroup next week to figure out what the patient had. It was a very little window into what's to come of our clinical years. Learning issues are sometimes a waste of time if you were assigned something stupid, but other times it was worth looking up.
 

johnny_blaze

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I would advise this too. I find that not enough emphasis is placed on learning basic medical sciences… too many people just did what they wanted to know and not what they really should know.

The good thing about PBL based courses is that if you don’t learn well from hours of lectures (like me) you can sit down with a good textbook and teach yourself.
It really depends on how you learn best.
 

efex101

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I do not like PBL either...
 

8744

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johnny_blaze said:
I would advise this too. I find that not enough emphasis is placed on learning basic medical sciences… too many people just did what they wanted to know and not what they really should know.

The good thing about PBL based courses is that if you don’t learn well from hours of lectures (like me) you can sit down with a good textbook and teach yourself.
It really depends on how you learn best.

Yeah, but the problem with PBL is that you have to go to your small group "meetings" or "conclaves" or "circle jerks" or whatever they call them.

Better to have a lecture-based curriculum where you can have plenty of opportunity for self-study by not going to lecture.

PBL or traditional curriculum makes no difference, medical school is largely self-study anyways.
 

Benzo4every1

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Panda Bear said:
Yeah, but the problem with PBL is that you have to go to your small group "meetings" or "conclaves" or "circle jerks" or whatever they call them.

Better to have a lecture-based curriculum where you can have plenty of opportunity for self-study by not going to lecture.

PBL or traditional curriculum makes no difference, medical school is largely self-study anyways.
I definitely agree with you there. They don't teach you jack!!! You pretty much have to learn it on your own. And if you have enough of a strong will and dedication, going to the professor for help also works
 

oompaloompa

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I would probably agree with the above consensus, but I would like to add that the PBL experience is highly variable, at least at my school. Depending on the students in your group and the faculty facilitator, PBL can run the spectrum from intriguing and entertaining to mind-numbingly boring. My second facilitator was a first-rate tool, but the one I have now is great. I also agree that the information discussed ad nauseum in the 6 hours/week that we meet could very easily be covered in about 30 minutes of self study. However, the one redeeming thing about PBL is that you are forced to form a medical opinion and defend it, which is what you have to do third year, so its good prep. Anyway, final verdict is that PBL is NOT the most effective way to learn most things in medicine, but as long as the time devoted to PBL isn't more than 3-6 hours a week, its not that bad. Hope this helps!
 

johnny_blaze

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Like I posted earlier, the one redeeming factor for PBL is that there are very few lectures. Fair enough, you don’t actually have to go to them if your course is lecture based, but with PBL you can self learn and then run any questions by other students or even your convenor (if he or she is good). It’s more personable.

I found PBL to be vary frustrating when it came to basic medical sciences because every one was just learning different things and at different depth. However, when it comes to clinical medicine, I think PBL is pretty good. I don’t know about you guys but I can’t stay awake listening to some guy give a lecture about depression! :sleep: With my last couple of rotations I’ve found group discussions about clinical medicine much more rewarding than lectures and we get proper attendings facilitating us. They’re not drilling us with questions like on the wards… the difference is that they just sit there tell give us personal teaching and answer any questions we have.

I guess its kinda like a lecture that you can direct… if ya get what I mean.
 

LuckyMD2b

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Benzo4every1 said:
PBL folks don't do well on Step 1.
My school curriculum had PBL at the end of first and second years as small group sessions in the afternoon. We had a case study, divvied up learning issues and then regroup next week to figure out what the patient had. It was a very little window into what's to come of our clinical years. Learning issues are sometimes a waste of time if you were assigned something stupid, but other times it was worth looking up.

Yeah, I'm sure all of those harvard, Yale, Stanford, and Cornell Med Students are flunking their boards left and right; and getting into craptacular residencies...

Stop Hatin'

If PBL is done right it can contribute grately to learning. If you are in a group with equally competent and well-prepared classmates, you can really benefit from thier POV's on difficult material and they can keep you on your toes, because you don't want to fall behind and not be able contribute to the team -- an atmosphere similar to the wards (or so i've been told); unlike those anonymous lectures where there is no accountability and little student-instructor interaction.
 

tigershark

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PBL is a great concept but it is highly dependent on the group you get.

If you get a group of mostly normal people PBL can be a great learning process. That happens maybe 20% of the time.

PBL can really suck if you get a few gunners. Invariably you'll get stuck with a few "cant see the forest for the trees" types who sit and read verbatim from obscure molecular biology journals when the intended topic is a basic bread and butter disease like pneumomia or meningitis.
 

8744

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I just hate being in a small group doing anything. To be honest, a lot of the material in medical school just bores the bejesus out of me. To be forced to sit and talk about it....well...I'd rather have a red-hot poker shoved up my rectum. Better to sit down with a stack of notes or a review book and quicky and efficiently plow through the material rather than sit in a group "brainstorming.

Now, I rather like the small groups we had at my school to discuss the fuzzy stuff like empathy and the doctor-patient relationship. This stuff is non-rigorous and most of the small groups deteriorated into people baring their souls and telling us their problems or relating funny stories.
 

bigfrank

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Benzo4every1 said:
PBL folks don't do well on Step 1.
This is simply not true. My school heavily emphasizes PBL. Our Step I average was 233 with zero failures: 15% of the class was >250. Friends at other PBL institutions have had similar results. On the other hand, a friend of mine at SLU told me that her class had an average of 210 or so with several failures.