Process duration for a US-IMG to be a licensed doctor in the U.S?

[Jole89]

I'm considering studying medicine outside the US and I'm curious to know more about the process I'd have to go through if I chose to come back and practice here.

How long it takes on average? Cost? Are certain residencies easier to match into than others?

Is it possible to seek out a fellowship rather than residency and be licensed through that?

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[Tenk]

Don’t.

 

[Isoval]

You would quickly go from optimiststudent776 to horrifiedstudent776.

If you want to practice medicine in the United States, you should go to medical school in the United States.

MDs match about 95% via NRMP, while DOs match about 92% via NRMP. Conversely, US IMGs (those who go to school outside of the US but are US citizens) match about...50%, give or take a few percent, and that number is (I think) decreasing year over year. That's just the tip of the iceberg with being an IMG; I'll let someone else elucidate the other many, many downfalls of being an IMG.

Basically,

Don’t.

But to actually answer your question, the process is exactly the same if you go to a Caribbean school - which is their main selling point - and similar if you go truly abroad. You’d have to take and pass Step 1, 2 CK, and 2 CS, and then go through the match.

 

[ciestar]

And no, you cant skip residency to do a fellowship

 

[ACSurgeon]

And no, you cant skip residency to do a fellowship

You can do some fellowships without a US residency. Whether or not you can practice in the US is a different story.

 

[Tangerine123]

You can do some fellowships without a US residency. Whether or not you can practice in the US is a different story.

Yeah, I wanted to know more about this for Psych. I'll ask in the corresponding forums I guess.

Also, there's a Derm residency in Boston that doesn't require the USMLE, but you can't practice medicine in the US after completing it. USD $60,864 per year...

 

[Splenda88]

You can do some fellowships without a US residency. Whether or not you can practice in the US is a different story.

You actually can, but you will have a hard time to become board certified. However, I am sure there is some loophole somewhere that might make it possible to be boarded.

There are few loopholes in the system that us (AMG) are not aware of since we don't need them.

 

[Tangerine123]

You would quickly go from optimiststudent776 to horrifiedstudent776.

If you want to practice medicine in the United States, you should go to medical school in the United States.

MDs match about 95% via NRMP, while DOs match about 92% via NRMP. Conversely, US IMGs (those who go to school outside of the US but are US citizens) match about...50%, give or take a few percent, and that number is (I think) decreasing year over year. That's just the tip of the iceberg with being an IMG; I'll let someone else elucidate the other many, many downfalls of being an IMG.

Basically,


But to actually answer your question, the process is exactly the same if you go to a Caribbean school - which is their main selling point - and similar if you go truly abroad. You’d have to take and pass Step 1, 2 CK, and 2 CS, and then go through the match.

It has upsides too. Some countries offer free university education, including medical school. Besides, 50% match rate isn't that bad. If you are a top tier student as an IMG the numbers aren't that low.

 

[Splenda88]

It has upsides too. Some countries offer free university education, including medical school. Besides, 50% match rate isn't that bad. If you are a top tier student as an IMG the numbers aren't that low.

I know an IM doc who did that; he said he knew the risk but he was willing to take it since he did not want to get into anything competitive. It's nice to be loan free making 250-300k/yr.

 

[Tangerine123]

I know an IM doc who did that; he said he knew the risk but he was willing to take it since he did not want to get into anything competitive. It's nice to be loan free making 250-300k/yr.

Yup, also in most countries medicine is an undergrad degree. So you don't have to go through to whole BS of studying something random and passing the MCAT

And as I said, 50% match rate isn't that bad.

Many of us in Latin America attempt going to Spain. In Spain they have a maximum of 300 residency slots for IMGs (regardless of specialty), last year around 1,700 IMGs applied. That's what, less than 20% success rate

Most of the people in my country match the first time (or second) into a residency in the US. And it takes around 2-3 match cycles to get into Spain. Studying for both the USMLE and MIR (Spanish version) take around the same time. So yeah, it's not as bad for IMGs in the US.

 

[ciestar]

You actually can, but you will have a hard time to become certified. However, I am sure there is some loophole somewhere that might make it possible to be boarded.

There are few loopholes in the system that us (AMG) are not aware of since we don't need them.

Clearly. See my earlier post. Ignorance is bliss?

 

[ciestar]

Yup, also in most countries medicine is an undergrad degree. So you don't have to go through to whole BS of studying something random and passing the MCAT

And as I said, 50% match rate isn't that bad.

Many of us in Latin America attempt going to Spain. In Spain they have a maximum of 300 residency slots for IMGs (regardless of specialty), last year around 1,700 IMGs applied. That's what, less than 20% success rate

Most of the people in my country match the first time (or second) into a residency in the US. And it takes around 2-3 match cycles to get into Spain. Studying for both the USMLE and MIR (Spanish version) take around the same time. So yeah, it's not as bad for IMGs in the US.

Uh.. spending hundreds of thousands of dollars for a 50-50 chance of actually being able to practice medicine doesnt sound “not that bad”. If OP is a US citizen, yeah, those are bad odds in comparison.

however, you’re right in comparison to other places across the globe.

 

[Tangerine123]

Uh.. spending hundreds of thousands of dollars for a 50-50 chance of actually being able to practice medicine doesnt sound “not that bad”. If OP is a US citizen, yeah, those are bad odds in comparison.

however, you’re right in comparison to other places across the globe.

I might not be that familiar with the whole system then. Where do the hundreds of thousands of dollars come into question?

I just looked some prices up. Step 1/2ck/2cs cost around $4,000 total.

As to applying for programs. To apply to 31+ Programs it's $26 each. Ok let's say you applied to 100 programs. That's $2,600.

Airplane tickets and accomodation. I'll throw in a random $5,000

$11,600 for an application cycle.

And for preparation, most IMGs I know just download the kaplan books/lectures and goljan illegally for free.

What costs and I missing?

I'm a US IMG and decided to go to Germany. I think I've spent around that ammount of money so far in the process and still have a long way to go.

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

Yup, also in most countries medicine is an undergrad degree. So you don't have to go through to whole BS of studying something random and passing the MCAT

And as I said, 50% match rate isn't that bad.

Many of us in Latin America attempt going to Spain. In Spain they have a maximum of 300 residency slots for IMGs (regardless of specialty), last year around 1,700 IMGs applied. That's what, less than 20% success rate

Most of the people in my country match the first time (or second) into a residency in the US. And it takes around 2-3 match cycles to get into Spain. Studying for both the USMLE and MIR (Spanish version) take around the same time. So yeah, it's not as bad for IMGs in the US.

Compared to 20%, 50% is not bad.
Compared to 95/92%, 50% is bad.

 

[Tangerine123]

Compared to 20%, 50% is not bad.
Compared to 95/92%, 50% is bad.

50% without debt
95% with debt

And both end up earning the same ammount of money at the end.

Pros and Cons.

 

[Splenda88]

In all honesty, if you are ok with IM or FM or Path or Peds or preventive medicine, it's not a bad bet...

 

[ciestar]

I might not be that familiar with the whole system then. Where do the hundreds of thousands of dollars come into question?

I just looked some prices up. Step 1/2ck/2cs cost around $4,000 total.

As to applying for programs. To apply to 31+ Programs it's $26 each. Ok let's say you applied to 100 programs. That's $2,600.

Airplane tickets and accomodation. I'll throw in a random $5,000

$11,600 for an application cycle.

And for preparation, most IMGs I know just download the kaplan books/lectures and goljan illegally for free.

What costs and I missing?

I'm a US IMG and decided to go to Germany. I think I've spent around that ammount of money so far in the process and still have a long way to go.

Tuition.

The COA at my USMD school was 85k a year.

 

[ciestar]

50% without debt
95% with debt

And both end up earning the same ammount of money at the end.

Pros and Cons.

I dont think we’re on the same page. Id guess that most US-IMGs are from carib schools. Theyre definitely not debt free

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

50% without debt
95% with debt

And both end up earning the same ammount of money at the end.

Pros and Cons.

Every person thinks that they will be in the 50% of students that succeed. It is not as easy as saying "I'll be a top tier student as an IMG".
The number of sponsored spots for US students to go abroad is very low. Not to mention your options of where you can go/what you can practice are drastically limited.
For the record, I also will take 95% with debt over 50% without debt-job security is a big reason why medicine is such a sought after gig but I recognize that some people have different priorities.

 

[Tangerine123]

Tuition.

The COA at my USMD school was 85k a year.

I dont think we’re on the same page. Id guess that most US-IMGs are from carib schools. Theyre definitely not debt free

Most countries in Latin America and Europe offer free medical education. That's what i've been trying to say all this time.

Here in Germany you pay 150€ per semester. It's basically free.

 

[Tangerine123]

Every person thinks that they will be in the 50% of students that succeed. It is not as easy as saying "I'll be a top tier student as an IMG".
The number of sponsored spots for US students to go abroad is very low. Not to mention your options of where you can go/what you can practice are drastically limited.
For the record, I also will take 95% with debt over 50% without debt-job security is a big reason why medicine is such a sought after gig but I recognize that some people have different priorities.

If you were top tier at an international medical school (Top 5%, Honors, Cum Laude, etc) you will be in that 50%. Also, it's not bad if it takes you 2 rounds of applications to get in.

But I do agree that everybody tackles this differently.

 

[ciestar]

Most countries in Latin America and Europe offer free medical education. That's what i've been trying to say all this time.

Here in Germany you pay 150€ per semester. It's basically free.

And how easy is it to get into these schools?

 

[ciestar]

If you were top tier at an international medical school (Top 5%, Honors, Cum Laude, etc) you will be in that 50%. Also, it's not bad if it takes you 2 rounds of applications to get in.

But I do agree that everybody tackles this differently.

That doesnt guarantee anything. Sure, you can be in the top of your foreign school, but only a few specialities are “IMG friendly” at all. With step 1 going pass/fail, it’ll get harder. And it gets harder to match the further removed from graduation you are.

 

[Tangerine123]

And how easy is it to get into these schools?

Latin America? Easy

Europe? Competitive, but not as close as the US. For example, in a Uni in Germany it depends 51% on your High School grades (Abitur), 24% on the admission test score and the other % in criteria like extracurriculars or voulunteering.

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

Latin America? Easy

Europe? Competitive, but not as close as the US. For example, in a Uni in Germany it depends 51% on your High School grades (Abitur), 24% on the admission test score and the other % in criteria like extracurriculars or voulunteering.

If you live in those countries it may be easy. But the original poster is American and is considering doing medical school outside the US. Most Latin American and European medical schools are not an option for them which is why we (@ciestar and I) are not on the same page with you.

 

[Tangerine123]

That doesnt guarantee anything. Sure, you can be in the top of your foreign school, but only a few specialities are “IMG friendly” at all. With step 1 going pass/fail, it’ll get harder. And it gets harder to match the further removed from graduation you are.

I think people tend to look at IMGs and IMG programs in a not-so-positive way. All factors considered it also has its pros. The quality of education isn't bad either, it's just different.

 

[Tangerine123]

If you live in those countries it may be easy. But the original poster is American and is considering doing medical school outside the US. Most Latin American and European medical schools are not an option for them which is why we (@ciestar and I) are not on the same page with you.

Yeah, I guess those are 2 different circumstances.