Program's match list

[StudentDoctor55]

Does it matter to a program whether they match with people highest on their list? Would a mid-tier program potentially rank a "better qualified applicant" lower on their list because they are sure that the applicant would match to a higher tier program and they want to match with people highest on their list for whatever reason?

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[NotAProgDirector]

It depends.

Our ranking strategy should be the same as yours. We put the people we want the most at the top of the list, and work our way down. Just like for you, I can't be "hurt" by ranking "reach" candidates high -- if they go somewhere else, then I simply get the next person on the list. That's how the math works.

However, there are a few reasons why a program might rank a "less stellar" candidate higher than a "more stellar":

1. The program might want to "brag" that they fill their 10 slots in their top 15. If so, then either they have to be really competitive (so that everyone wants to go there), or they put lesser candidates higher on the list, since less competitive candidates might have had less interviews and hence might want to go to that program the most.

2. The program might want to fill with applicants who ranked it #1, since they are more likely to be happy. Imagine a "superstar" applies to a mid-tier program, and they match him/her. Said person might have ranked that program #10, and you can imagine that they might be quite upset at matching there. In that case, the program MIGHT be better off with a lower ranked candidate who really wanted to go to that program.

Note that reason #1 is pretty bogus in my view. Reason #2 is more valid, although lots of people who match to something less than their #1 (and in fact less than their #10) end up happy in their programs. There's a classic thread about this on SDN somewhere -- a user posts a (drunken, I believe) rant about how programs lied to him when he matched at his #12 and how miserable he would be, etc. Others point out that it's better than not matching at all. He is not so certain. Then, he returns to the thread many months later, and reports that he loves his program an in fact was a blessing in disguise.

 

[drrockstar140]

I have a (somewhat) related question.

Does anyone have any stats on how frequently US internal med applicants match into a program that is lower than say #5 on their list?

e.g. - 90% of US grads match into one of the top 4 on their rank list?

 

[Instatewaiter]

I feel like that would be found in one of the large data sets the NRMP put out. Perhaps a little leg work on your own would answer that question.

 

[drrockstar140]

I feel like that would be found in one of the large data sets the NRMP put out. Perhaps a little leg work on your own would answer that question.

The closest I've seen is a graph that shows %matched versus # of "contiguous ranks." I think this approaches a 100% match rate with ~10 "contiguous ranks."

It would be helpful to see if there is a huge drop-off somewhere on that graph. For example, are the vast majority of people matching into one of their top 4 or 5, or do a similar number of people match at their #1 versus #7?

I guess word on the street is the only way to go, but I'm not going to walk around and ask residents which # they matched at on their list, lol.

 

[SpookyDoc]

I have a (somewhat) related question.

Does anyone have any stats on how frequently US internal med applicants match into a program that is lower than say #5 on their list?

e.g. - 90% of US grads match into one of the top 4 on their rank list?

That's actually just about a factual statement if you're talking across ALL residencies inclusive (85% I think)... I have NOT seen a "in their top 4" for medicine alone, just for all NRMP residencies.

 

[StudentDoctor55]

It depends.

Our ranking strategy should be the same as yours. We put the people we want the most at the top of the list, and work our way down. Just like for you, I can't be "hurt" by ranking "reach" candidates high -- if they go somewhere else, then I simply get the next person on the list. That's how the math works.

However, there are a few reasons why a program might rank a "less stellar" candidate higher than a "more stellar":

1. The program might want to "brag" that they fill their 10 slots in their top 15. If so, then either they have to be really competitive (so that everyone wants to go there), or they put lesser candidates higher on the list, since less competitive candidates might have had less interviews and hence might want to go to that program the most.

2. The program might want to fill with applicants who ranked it #1, since they are more likely to be happy. Imagine a "superstar" applies to a mid-tier program, and they match him/her. Said person might have ranked that program #10, and you can imagine that they might be quite upset at matching there. In that case, the program MIGHT be better off with a lower ranked candidate who really wanted to go to that program.

Note that reason #1 is pretty bogus in my view. Reason #2 is more valid, although lots of people who match to something less than their #1 (and in fact less than their #10) end up happy in their programs. There's a classic thread about this on SDN somewhere -- a user posts a (drunken, I believe) rant about how programs lied to him when he matched at his #12 and how miserable he would be, etc. Others point out that it's better than not matching at all. He is not so certain. Then, he returns to the thread many months later, and reports that he loves his program an in fact was a blessing in disguise.

So is it ok to tell a program they are your number one choice? Or does everyone tell them that?

 

[gutonc]

So is it ok to tell a program they are your number one choice? Or does everyone tell them that?

Yes and Yes. Which is why it doesn't matter one bit what you tell them.

 

[atsai3]

So is it ok to tell a program they are your number one choice? Or does everyone tell them that?

Everyone tells at least one program "you are my #1 choice".

 

[atsai3]

I have a (somewhat) related question.

Does anyone have any stats on how frequently US internal med applicants match into a program that is lower than say #5 on their list?

e.g. - 90% of US grads match into one of the top 4 on their rank list?

Statistics like these are not helpful. Your rank list is a function of your interview list, and your interview list is a function of your competitiveness. If a medical school student dean is doing her job at all, then she will steer students to apply to programs where they have a shot at interviewing. Medical schools like to boast about "90% of our students match to one of their top 3 choices" but the student deans can easily game this by steering students to rank realistically rather than aspirationally. That will tend to inflate the percentage of students matching at one of the top X programs on their lists.

The statistic that you should be interested in is, "what percentage of U.S. grads match to one of the top 4 programs that they would like to go to if they had an unfettered choice in the matter?". But statistics like those are simply unavailable.