# Programs to Apply to

[Chibucks15]

Hey guys its time to start the ERAS freakout of 2021. Quick advice on how many programs to apply to/how realistic my chances are. I've been asking these kinds of things on the neuro board but figured I'd give em a break. Applying neurology in upper midwest ideally, but I know I've got to expand my radius due to relative lack of programs.

DO at original school.
50th percentile class rank
3 pubs (all non neuro)
2 ongoing neuro projects, research month scheduled for October. A few other 'experiences' in the research section that didn't end in pubs.
Great comments on all rotations about work ethic, personability, patient relationships, etc. All passes and 1 HP though cuz my school makes it impossible and its annoying.

S1 ~230. S2 ~230 (a few points higher than S1. underperformed here so thats my question mark, can be partially explained b/c COVID I guess)
Comlex about the same percentiles and havent gotten level 2 back

Lucked out in getting an audition at a reach program for September, I'm in neuro now and again next month. The limited auditions and virtual interviews are gonna bite me cuz I feel like I look better in person compared to my paper app.

Thinking about applying 30-40. Don't feel like I need to waste application money on the Mayo's, UMich, and Vandy's of the world either. It'll be interesting to see what happens with some of the foreign grads too.
Is 30-40 a good number? Don't wanna over/under apply. Not terribly concerned about matching into SOMETHING, but obviously would like it to be more geographically favorable and not a sweatshop, don't really care about prestige, etc.

Any tips/advice is appreciated. Thanks!

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[Neopolymath]

I've got no clue about neuro so I'm no help but perhaps it would help to mention the status of your LORs and if you think they are good or if some aspects of LORs matter for your field etc. I don't know if that would help someone give suggestions or not for neuro.

Good luck!

@Giovanotto ?

 

[slowthai]

@Ibn Alnafis MD might be able to help

 

[Chibucks15]

@Ibn Alnafis MD might be able to help

I’ve talked to all the neuro people haha just got a bit neurotic. Step 2 made me nervous

Letters are great and good, working to get a few good-great neuro letters over this month and the next two months

thanks though guys!

 

[Ho0v-man]

You are, at the very worst, an average applicant. Likely a cut above. Apply where you want. You’re gonna have a good cycle.

 

[Chibucks15]

You are, at the very worst, an average applicant. Likely a cut above. Apply where you want. You’re gonna have a good cycle.

Appreciate that. Have a few programs that I’m gunning for because of location but don’t wanna be overly disappointed if it doesn’t work. I’m sure I’ll match it’s just where is the question haha

 

[hallowmann]

I think you'll be OK in the midwest honestly, but wouldn't blame you if you applied to 10 more places out of fear/paranoia (I did). As long as you're applying to a big range of places and not just say the programs in Chicago, you should be OK with 30-40.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I agree. 30-40, Midwest-focused programs while avoiding big research powerhouses should be plenty.

I anticipate you’ll get 30-50% return on investment. That’s more than enough interviews for you to match.

Remember, you may not get invited in the first batch of emails. Don’t be discouraged and succumb to the pressure of applying to more programs. Your turn will come.

Best wishes

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Hey guys its time to start the ERAS freakout of 2021. Quick advice on how many programs to apply to/how realistic my chances are. I've been asking these kinds of things on the neuro board but figured I'd give em a break. Applying neurology in upper midwest ideally, but I know I've got to expand my radius due to relative lack of programs.

DO at original school.
50th percentile class rank
3 pubs (all non neuro)
2 ongoing neuro projects, research month scheduled for October. A few other 'experiences' in the research section that didn't end in pubs.
Great comments on all rotations about work ethic, personability, patient relationships, etc. All passes and 1 HP though cuz my school makes it impossible and its annoying.

S1 ~230. S2 ~230 (a few points higher than S1. underperformed here so thats my question mark, can be partially explained b/c COVID I guess)
Comlex about the same percentiles and havent gotten level 2 back

Lucked out in getting an audition at a reach program for September, I'm in neuro now and again next month. The limited auditions and virtual interviews are gonna bite me cuz I feel like I look better in person compared to my paper app.

Thinking about applying 30-40. Don't feel like I need to waste application money on the Mayo's, UMich, and Vandy's of the world either. It'll be interesting to see what happens with some of the foreign grads too.
Is 30-40 a good number? Don't wanna over/under apply. Not terribly concerned about matching into SOMETHING, but obviously would like it to be more geographically favorable and not a sweatshop, don't really care about prestige, etc.

Any tips/advice is appreciated. Thanks!

There’s no in person interview, I would spend whatever you had saved up for interview season on applications. I think 30-40 is way too low, especially this year.

 

[Splenda88]

You are, at the very worst, an average applicant. Likely a cut above. Apply where you want. You’re gonna have a good cycle.

He is an average applicant, not above average... He/she will definitely match into an academic program. if I recall, the average neuro applicant has a 230/240 step1/2 respectively.

Better be safe in this process than trying to save 1000 bucks. If I were you, I would apply to 50-60 programs based on score and for being a DO, which we all know will put you at a slight disadvantage. Not the time to try to save 1000 bucks after spending > 300k to get your degree.

 

[Ho0v-man]

He is an average applicant, not above average... He/she will definitely match into an academic program. if I recall, the average neuro applicant has a 230/240 step1/2 respectively.

Better be safe in this process than trying to save 1000 bucks. If I were you, I would apply to 50-60 programs based on score and for being a DO, which we all know will put you at a slight disadvantage. Not the time to try to save 1000 bucks after spending > 300k to get your degree.

Average DO applicant has high 220s/high 230s. So OP beats out the average a little.

 

[DO2015CA]

There’s no in person interview, I would spend whatever you had saved up for interview season on applications. I think 30-40 is way too low, especially this year.

I agree. Idk for neuro specifically. But I know a lot of programs are interviewing more applicants this year too because of covid and the rise of zoom interviews. It’s just allows for more to be interviewed on top of the unknown about this cycle. Always better to be safe than sorry

 

[Chibucks15]

I agree. Idk for neuro specifically. But I know a lot of programs are interviewing more applicants this year too because of covid and the rise of zoom interviews. It’s just allows for more to be interviewed on top of the unknown about this cycle. Always better to be safe than sorry

Yeah that’s my concern. I’m more geographically based than anything but I’ll look to expand a bit. 50 seems like a lot but this is such a strange year

 

[DO2015CA]

Yeah that’s my concern. I’m more geographically based than anything but I’ll look to expand a bit. 50 seems like a lot but this is such a strange year

If it was me personally id do 50. It is weird to say the least. And you are still saving money at the end of the day not traveling to the interviews.

 

[Chibucks15]

If it was me personally id do 50. It is weird to say the least. And you are still saving money at the end of the day not traveling to the interviews.

I ended up snagging 2 aways (even though one isn’t till Feb) and another pseudo away where I had to get an Airbnb for a month. So unfortunately haven’t saved a ton of money overall. It’ll get situated

 

[Postictal Raiden]

30-40 programs. No need for this unwarranted paranoia. Nothing about the field has changed. If anything it’s even less competitive now that people are becoming infatuated with specialties where you can “save lives”.

 

[Chibucks15]

UPDATE: Kinda shat the bed a bit on COMLEX 2 and went down a bit. No idea what caused it cuz I felt okay but it is what it is. There’s a decent explanation for my off day though.

My question: You think programs would look more at my USMLE scores instead? Not ideal but they’re better in comparison. also ended up with a great eval with a very good letter coming from my first neuro so that’ll help.

Does that change any math on how many?

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Nothing changes

I can tell you that my PD has no idea about the difference between a 450 or a 650 on COMLEX.

 

[Chibucks15]

Nothing changes

I can tell you that my PD has no idea about the difference between a 450 or a 650 on COMLEX.

That’s what I was thinking but just needed the confirmation haha appreciate it. You’ve been incredibly helpful through this

 

[Splenda88]

Nothing changes

I can tell you that my PD has no idea about the difference between a 450 or a 650 on COMLEX.

Lol.. That is bad. Some PD are lazy.

 

[hallowmann]

UPDATE: Kinda shat the bed a bit on COMLEX 2 and went down a bit. No idea what caused it cuz I felt okay but it is what it is. There’s a decent explanation for my off day though.

My question: You think programs would look more at my USMLE scores instead? Not ideal but they’re better in comparison. also ended up with a great eval with a very good letter coming from my first neuro so that’ll help.

Does that change any math on how many?

You'll be fine. If you have both steps and the scores are OK, its unlikely they'll even look at the actual COMLEX scores as much as just make sure you passed. Completely agree with Ibn Alnafis, many PDs don't know much about the COMLEX, although mine knows that a 400 is barely passing, but beyond 500, they don't really pay much attention to the scores.

 

[Chibucks15]

Ye

You'll be fine. If you have both steps and the scores are OK, its unlikely they'll even look at the actual COMLEX scores as much as just make sure you passed. Completely agree with Ibn Alnafis, many PDs don't know much about the COMLEX, although mine knows that a 400 is barely passing, but beyond 500, they don't really pay much attention to the scores.

yeah I’m still nowhere near failing just went a bit down. Appreciate the reassurance though. This match is gonna be wild this year

 

[hallowmann]

Ye

yeah I’m still nowhere near failing just went a bit down. Appreciate the reassurance though. This match is gonna be wild this year

Its so stressful on the recruitment side too. Recording, planning, having way more things like "Open Houses" and stuff than we would on any normal year. I suspect it'll all end up fine, but the experience is definitely gonna be different.

 

[Chibucks15]

Its so stressful on the recruitment side too. Recording, planning, having way more things like "Open Houses" and stuff than we would on any normal year. I suspect it'll all end up fine, but the experience is definitely gonna be different.

Do you expect more interviews to be held than typically?
That’s a huge thing that is really unfortunate that both programs and applicants can’t meet and get an in person impression. I can see much more personality conflicts, etc happening this year. Easy to fake it for an hour interview or something than 1.5 days

 

[hallowmann]

Do you expect more interviews to be held than typically?
That’s a huge thing that is really unfortunate that both programs and applicants can’t meet and get an in person impression. I can see much more personality conflicts, etc happening this year. Easy to fake it for an hour interview or something than 1.5 days

We actually are not planning to interview more. The cycle cuts a bit into our normal interview season. Even if we wanted to expand, we'd probably just have enough time to interview 10% more than we usually do. My PD drew a line at having any interviews during the weekends, and in all likelihood finding more week days when enough of the interviewers and residents are available to really make the interviews valuable is hard. I don't know about bigger programs though. I know people in the IM program are talking about interviewing more.

Its hard to imagine not having those couple days, but I've participated in some virtual conferences so far, and I think it'll be better than we think. There is something though of visiting the area. In every interview, I could either envision myself in that city or I couldn't, and that had an impact for me. What's worse is that if this persists to next fall as well, we'll be limited in social stuff we can do with the incoming class, which I'm worried will compound some of the isolation felt during the start of intern year especially if people are relocating. We'll honestly just have to see what happens.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Lol.. That is bad. Some PD are lazy.

Not lazy. He just doesn’t give much value to it. We don’t interview applicants without USMLE scores (my program is a lower tier academic program in the west).