Promoting to MAJ below the zone in AMEDD?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

73BARMYPgsp

Post Doc
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
673
Reaction score
1
I know. "They" say it never happens. However, I viewed my ORB, which is completely jacked up. It is missing all the awards I earned while enlisted, the schools I attended and my previous assignments. I also earned an "extra" Master's Degree along the way, which is not relected on my ORB. (One that is related to, but not required as part of my PhD program). So today I went down to the S1 and brought all my supporting documents and they are changing it now.

My thinking is this--EVERYONE in AMEDD has screwed up ORBs, because nobody ever explained it to them, and they get automatically promoted to 0-4 right on time. There are 2 things that affect your promotion (that you have some control of)- OERs and ORBs. So what do you think, did it hurt, help or have no effect on this process?

Members don't see this ad.
 
I know. "They" say it never happens. However, I viewed my ORB, which is completely jacked up. It is missing all the awards I earned while enlisted, the schools I attended and my previous assignments. I also earned an "extra" Master's Degree along the way, which is not relected on my ORB. (One that is related to, but not required as part of my PhD program). So today I went down to the S1 and brought all my supporting documents and they are changing it now.

My thinking is this--EVERYONE in AMEDD has screwed up ORBs, because nobody ever explained it to them, and they get automatically promoted to 0-4 right on time. There are 2 things that affect your promotion (that you have some control of)- OERs and ORBs. So what do you think, did it hurt, help or have no effect on this process?

I've heard that you get promoted (as a doc anyway) as soon as you have enough time-in-grade regardless of anything else.
 
I know. "They" say it never happens. However, I viewed my ORB, which is completely jacked up. It is missing all the awards I earned while enlisted, the schools I attended and my previous assignments. I also earned an "extra" Master's Degree along the way, which is not relected on my ORB. (One that is related to, but not required as part of my PhD program). So today I went down to the S1 and brought all my supporting documents and they are changing it now.

My thinking is this--EVERYONE in AMEDD has screwed up ORBs, because nobody ever explained it to them, and they get automatically promoted to 0-4 right on time. There are 2 things that affect your promotion (that you have some control of)- OERs and ORBs. So what do you think, did it hurt, help or have no effect on this process?

I would disagree with your premise. As a Medical Service Corps officer, you are also lumped in with Health Care administrators. They live for paperwork and typically have good mentors.

That aside, early promotions to O4 are very few and far between. Doesn't mean you should not put your ducks in a row.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
That aside, early promotions to O4 are very few and far between. Doesn't mean you should not put your ducks in a row.

I've heard early promotions to O4 virtually never happen, at least for doctors.
 
I have no clue what my ORB looks like. From what I know, most docs generally get promoted to Major unless one does something really stupid. I am a CPT and will be promotable in 2010. I don't plan on doing 20 so I am not going to fret too much about if one of my ARCOM or other useless awards made it to my ORB or not.
 
I don't know anything about the Navy or Air Force, but there are no below-the-zone promotions to 0-4 in the Army, This was phased out a number of years ago. Of course, if you have constructive credit or prior time in grade, that's a different story, but for everyone else it's six years in grade. You can look at your ORB by going on to AKO, the link is in the bottom right hand corner.

The promotion rate to 0-4 in the zone (6 years) is above 95%. The most important factors for your promotion are passing your PT test and not being overweight. Other than that, not much matters. Make sure you have an updated DA photo that matches the awards in your ORB. My O-4 board was a month ago, someone sent me an E-mail saying they needed a bunch of stuff for my OMPF. Here's what they wanted: OBC graduation certificate, Med School X-script, residency graduation certificate, C4 diploma (i think).

Ed
 
Slightly offtopic: how easy is it to make O5 and O6 in the army after 12 and 18 years, respectively?

I do not know of any board certified army doc who has been passed over from these, but I know it happens. The personnel people publish these numbers every year. I think 4 -> 5 is about 80% and 5-> 6 is about 60%. This is for all comers. The big things you need are Board Certification and OBC (or constructive credit). They like to see the advances schooling stuff as well, but it's not as important.

Ed
 
Nowadays, you won't make O6 in the Army MC without completing the CCC or receiving constructive credit. At least that's what the career advisors are saying.
 
Does prior service (enlisted) count towards promotion to major I am talking about 3yrs. thanks
 
Members don't see this ad :)
nope. only prior service as an officer counts, and then it's only at 1/2 the rate. the good news is that you'll get paid as an O3-E rather than just an O3.

not with just 3 years, you need 4+ years for the E-scale.
 
nope. only prior service as an officer counts, and then it's only at 1/2 the rate. the good news is that you'll get paid as an O3-E rather than just an O3.

There have been some screw-ups over time in service and PEBD (Pay entry Base Date). For those prior-service, PEBD is calculated as the day you graduate (not when you start residency) minus years of service. O3 under 2 is a lot less than O3 over 4 yrs of service. SO, when in-processing, bring DD214s.
 
So if graduating this year the entry date would be 2006 right?
 
While this might not be appropriate for military medicine, why doesn't the military reward exceptional performance? If there were no below the zone promotions, Napoleon would have never made general. There must be extraordinary officers out there who really are that good, and they should be promoted sooner. Or offered large bonuses to stay in their current position. The corporate world sometimes does both.
 
While this might not be appropriate for military medicine, why doesn't the military reward exceptional performance? If there were no below the zone promotions, Napoleon would have never made general. There must be extraordinary officers out there who really are that good, and they should be promoted sooner. Or offered large bonuses to stay in their current position. The corporate world sometimes does both.

lolwut%5B1%5D.jpg



Seriously, of all the examples you could have used, you chose to cite a 200-year old instance of a low-level noble who rose through the French military to become a despotic emperor who subsequently plunged the entire continent of Europe into war for over a decade? Yes, let's promote more of those below the zone.
 
So if graduating this year the entry date would be 2006 right?

Yes, The day you first went to MEPPS and signed the DD4 in reserve, guard, or active duty until you started HPSP is subtracted from grad date. So if you have 3 yrs enlisted you will be paid as O3 over 3: $4332 vs $3540.
 
Seriously, of all the examples you could have used, you chose to cite a 200-year old instance of a low-level noble who rose through the French military to become a despotic emperor who subsequently plunged the entire continent of Europe into war for over a decade? Yes, let's promote more of those below the zone.
Well, I know he was promoted young, and there's no question he was an unbelievably good military leader. Well, mostly, obviously he let his ego get ahead of him after destroying his opponents in earlier victories.

Point taken, maybe if they'd let the man season a little in the earlier ranks, he would have had the wisdom not to invade a frozen wasteland in wintertime. Or, at least he'd know to bring pretty of warm clothing rather than relying on capturing housing from the enemy.

And actually, I think the Napoleonic wars lasted more like 2 decades....
 
Seriously, of all the examples you could have used, you chose to cite a 200-year old instance of a low-level noble who rose through the French military to become a despotic emperor who subsequently plunged the entire continent of Europe into war for over a decade? Yes, let's promote more of those below the zone.

Good point and succintly said. I agree: All short captains trying to be promoted below the zone should be investigated for dictatorial tendencies.

Actually, there are below the zone (BZ) promotions when there is a shortage of MAJs. BZ is more common for O5 and up. There are inequities in the system, and are not easily fixed without causing other worse problems, such as BZ's for the good ol' boy club.
 
And actually, I think the Napoleonic wars lasted more like 2 decades....

I can nitpick with the best of them.

No consensus exists as to when the French Revolutionary Wars ended and the Napoleonic Wars began. Possible dates include 9 November 1799, when Bonaparte seized power in France;18 May 1803, when Britain and France ended the only period of peace in Europe between 1792 and 1814, and 2 December 1804, when Bonaparte crowned himself Emperor.

So, as you can see, they lasted somewhere between 11 and 16 years. Both of those numbers are more than a decade (what I said); neither of them are more like 2 decades (what you said).
 
Yes, The day you first went to MEPPS and signed the DD4 in reserve, guard, or active duty until you started HPSP is subtracted from grad date. So if you have 3 yrs enlisted you will be paid as O3 over 3: $4332 vs $3540.
Thats good, thank you for the info.
 
lolwut%5B1%5D.jpg



Seriously, of all the examples you could have used, you chose to cite a 200-year old instance of a low-level noble who rose through the French military to become a despotic emperor who subsequently plunged the entire continent of Europe into war for over a decade? Yes, let's promote more of those below the zone.

Omar Bradley was selected for Brigadier General when he was only a LTC.
(a little more recent than Napoleon and not as despotic)
 
You can get promoted faster if you have advanced degrees. A masters will knock off two years, a PhD will take off 3. However, your degree has to be in particular fields as covered in DoD regulations.
 
Quick question for you guys. Everything I see on here seems to point toward promotion to Major at 6 year after promotion to Captain. Is this based off of TIS, TIG, or something entirely different. My understanding is that the minimal requirement for promotion to Major is TIS 10 years and TIG 3 years. I'm prior service and have 12 years TIS. Is it possible that I could be promoted after my 3 years TIG is up or is my information/reasoning incorrect. Thanks for any help.
 
Lot of necrobumpophilia lately. :)

Time in service won't necessarily get you to O4 any faster. If you have prior time as an O3, that will.

For the most part, everyone gets O4 automatically, on time. Every year there are a couple of in-zone O3 doctors who, via one screwup or another, don't get selected for O4. They then take an equal number of below zone O3s and promote them early. I don't believe anyone ever gets O5 early.
 
Going to O4 takes 6 years after medical school, regardless of resident or civilian physician status. If you graduated med school 6 years ago and did something medical, you're going to become an O4. The only ways to promote quicker are to either have prior service time as an officer, in which case you get half credit. (Enlisted time doesn't count.) If you earned a masters or PhD before medical school in something medically related, you can also get credit for those.
 
Thanks for the info. I finally found the correct Army reg (600-8-29) last night. The wording of it seems like it put prior service at a disadvantage compared to non amedd officers, but that's something I can try and argue with AFPC about (or what ever the army equivalent is) Thanks again for the help.
 
Lot of necrobumpophilia lately. :)

Time in service won't necessarily get you to O4 any faster. If you have prior time as an O3, that will.

For the most part, everyone gets O4 automatically, on time. Every year there are a couple of in-zone O3 doctors who, via one screwup or another, don't get selected for O4. They then take an equal number of below zone O3s and promote them early. I don't believe anyone ever gets O5 early.
I do know guys in the Army who have been promoted BZ for O-5 (two off the top of my head). It happens. Not frequently.
 
Interesting, never heard of it happening in the Navy, but I guess that doesn't mean it hasn't.
Incidentally, both had multiple deployments, both had been lucky enough to be stationed at MEDCENs, and both had become program directors of their respective programs as junior staff (basically no one wanted the job). So they had some things working for them.
 
Interesting, never heard of it happening in the Navy, but I guess that doesn't mean it hasn't.
I know of two people who were picked up on their first below zone look at O4 (which is essentially 2 years early). Neither had prior service, both were straight through trainees.
 
Lot of necrobumpophilia lately. :)

Time in service won't necessarily get you to O4 any faster. If you have prior time as an O3, that will.

For the most part, everyone gets O4 automatically, on time. Every year there are a couple of in-zone O3 doctors who, via one screwup or another, don't get selected for O4. They then take an equal number of below zone O3s and promote them early. I don't believe anyone ever gets O5 early.

How bad do you have to screw up to not get promoted to O4?
 
Survey says you can beat up an old man on the roadside and stay O-4 forever. Maybe something similar?
 
Yeah, plenty of time past. And while the old man probably can't drink coffee, I like to think he can still enjoy a certain kind of coffee establishment that exists where he lives. The kind with a view.

I also have to think that after all this time, he's probably still very aware of small British cars behind him on the bridge.

But I don't think it's too early.
 
I know of two people who were picked up on their first below zone look at O4 (which is essentially 2 years early). Neither had prior service, both were straight through trainees.

Bz in the mc does not happen. For standard hpsp it is 6 years to the day after starting residency. Your board meets in march of year five. Results published in june at the begining of the sixth year. Promotable until the completion of sixth year to the exact date. It is a fully qualified board not best qualified. As for prior service, often times someone will pin on MAJ just after a three year residency or within fellowship. This may appear bz. However they are given credit for prior time and intact have taken longer to promote.
 
Bz in the mc does not happen. For standard hpsp it is 6 years to the day after starting residency. Your board meets in march of year five. Results published in june at the begining of the sixth year. Promotable until the completion of sixth year to the exact date. It is a fully qualified board not best qualified. As for prior service, often times someone will pin on MAJ just after a three year residency or within fellowship. This may appear bz. However they are given credit for prior time and intact have taken longer to promote.
I know both of these people personally. Neither one had any prior service. You can believe it or not, but in the Navy it has happened. I also know at least one who was picked up one year ahead again with no prior experience, etc.
 
Random thought: For people who did ASR in the Guard, they were MS officers for 3 years. Does that time count as CC toward O4, making you promotable to O4 at 4.5 years out from start of residency?
 
In the mc it is six years to the day. Fully qualified not best qualified promotion. Are your examples due to service credited for previous experience? Perhaps PhD or an active duty contract direct from civilian having prior experience in the medical field.
 
One of the two I know was a Naval Academy to USUHS to straight through training so no PhD, no creditable prior service etc.
 
Random thought: For people who did ASR in the Guard, they were MS officers for 3 years. Does that time count as CC toward O4, making you promotable to O4 at 4.5 years out from start of residency?
Keep in mind that the Reserve Corps has different TIG requirements for O-4. You can make promotion in 4 years.
 
If you have prior ad MSC time you will get half credit. For example if you were post command 03 MSC with five years of service prior to med school. ..you'd get 2.5 years credit and promote to 04 earlier than your MC peers but much later than your previous MSC year group.
 
Top