proposed DIY post-bacc schedule / please critique

[proclus]

I will beginning my post-bacc journey this summer at local big state university™ (incidentally the same school I attended for law school) with GEN CHEM 1 & 2.

The following fall I need to be in Asia, but I will be back to complete required courses beginning in the spring 2012 semester.

I am currently considering the possible potential schedules for taking these courses:

Summer 2011- Chem 1 & 2
Fall 2011 - (out of the country)
Spring 2012 - Bio, Physics, & Orgo 1
Summer 2012 - (out of the country)
Fall 2012 - Bio, Physics, & Orgo 1
Spring 2013 - Biochem (& Genetics only if required by a particular school)
**May 2013 - MCAT

*OR*

Summer 2011- Chem 1 & 2
Fall 2011 - (out of the country)
Spring 2012 - Bio & Physics 1
Summer 2012 - Orgo 1 & 2
Fall 2012 - Bio & Physics 2
Spring 2013 - Biochem (& Genetics only if required by a particular school)
**May 2013 - MCAT

The way I see things now it would be better for me to be in back in Asia during summer 2012, but I could probably swing it if I felt I needed to use that summer session to power through a course.

A quick forum search turns up thread after thread of people disputing whether taking ORGO during the summer session is either a smart way to plow through the course in a short time (provided you are sufficiently motivated & have the time to do the requisite studying that summer) or whether it's academically masochistic and risky in the sense that the summer session does not prepare one adequately for the MCAT.

So I'm curious what sort of thoughts folks who've completed their own post-bacc's might have about the feasibility of either schedule.

Much obliged for any and all suggestions or ideas.

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[ruraldr]

I would worry more about the academic masochism then the adequate prep for the MCAT. In my experience the biochem coverage of ochem topics was better prep for the MCAT then ochem itself.

It is key to do very well academically in your post-bacc work, so perhaps how you perform in Gen chem in a non-condensed summer program can guide whether or not you should try o-chem in a condensed manner.


Best of luck with your studies!

 

[proclus]

I think your plan is feasible. One question, where are the labs? You might consider taking the labs in the summer and taking the lectures during the academic year, if you can.

Good luck!

-biophilia

Labs & lectures are at the same time.

Just add "& lab" to everything in the above lists.

 

[clausewitz2]

It might be the case that you are someone who does not find orgo hugely challenging (in which case you'll be fine), or you it may be the worst and most terrible class you have ever taken to date, in which case that summer will be a disaster. Some people just cannot get organic chemistry to stay in their heads.

If you can get your hands on an organic textbook for cheap, I would maybe go through a chapter or two after you take general chemistry and work through the problems. If you don't find it very upsetting, this isn't a terrible idea. If, however, you are flummoxed, be very careful in trying to rush through organic chemistry too quickly.

 

[stefspets]

Will you be working at all while in school? If yes then I think this schedule might be a bit much.

Labs in general add a lot of time and work (imo anyway) to the class schedule, and having three together is a lot. It's not impossible or anything but it certainly will be a lot of work.

I took A&P, micro, and ochem at the same time, plus volunteering and shadowing. I don't have kids or anything and I wasn't working so I thought it was manageable (and ended up adding an english class late start to that schedule). So it really depends on you--will all of your time be available to dedicate to these classes?

Your second schedule addresses this but puts ochem in the summer. Can you do ochem in spring and fall and do bio over the summer instead? I ask this because ochem is a lot of material to digest and it helps to have it spread out over a semester. You'll want to understand the concepts well for the MCAT (not necessarily reactions but trends and functional group behavior). Ochem is one class I wouldn't rush.

 

[lsu hopeful]

Just as a word of warning, do you really understand what you're getting into signing up for chemistry in the summer? Unless you're a chemistry whiz and have proven you can handle one chapter of chemistry a day and a test in the same week, I would highly advise you to think more seriously about this. Possibly speak with the professors and see what the courseload is like.

Professors at my uni and the next closest uni both told me the same thing... do not take chemistry during the summer unless you've already taken the class or you desire to have a failing grade on your transcript.

 

[lsu hopeful]

Wanted to post something a bit more constructive... I noticed that your schedule is very similar to mine, minus the skipped semester. I would advise you to understand that it's not a sprint, it's a marathon. Do not underestimate the difficulty of these classes, because that first B will sting. You want to make all A's and anything you do to make that more difficult is working against yourself. Condensing your schedule is exactly that.

I would suggest you take my schedule, adjusted for your proper starting semester and not skipping a semester. Go ahead and get your trip out of the way and wait to start your pre-reqs until you get back. I could list about 100 advantages to doing it this way, but the primaries include you probably don't really want to take those summer courses, the fact that inorg chem 2 builds on inorg chem 1, and you want to have the least amount of time between learning pre-req material and your MCAT possible.

Summer 2011- (Out of the country, possibly)
Fall 2011 - (out of the country)
Spring 2012 - Bio 1 & Inorg Chem 1
Summer 2012 - NOTHING, except maybe an add-on class like Anatomy/Phys
Fall 2012 - Bio 2 & Inorg Chem 2
Spring 2013 - Physics 1 & Org Chem 1
Fall 2013 - Physics 2 & Org Chem 2
Spring 2014 - Biochemistry + (either nothing and study for the MCAT in April, or something like Genetics and take the MCAT in June)

All of these classes are helping you prepare for the MCAT. You don't want to rush them, if I haven't said that enough.

 

[lmesina]

Imu is right, Gen Chem is hard.

However; if you are still intent on taking it in the summer, I think you could pull it off if you prepare adequately. I'm sure you're a seasoned "student" already, so studying shouldn't be too much of a problem, except the content is all science this time, heavily problem based.

If you can, read a high yield type of text, covering all the chem basics so you've already exposed yourself to the main ideas of every single Gen Chem point. This works well for me, I've pre-read "high-yield" type texts prior to most of my classes, and it made a world of a difference when it came to hearing it from the professor.

By high yield, I mean something along the lines of "chem for dummies", but more in depth. MCAT chem review could work, just make sure to get something you like,- like something that gets to the point and doesn't discuss too much extra stuff (as in a chem textbook) or a small chem-made-rediculously-easy type book.

 

[NalaDoc]

As you can tell, I am not a regular SDN poster, but I follow threads from time to time... my personal experience seems strangely similar, so I thought I maybe my 2 cents would be helpful.

As a non-traditional student, I found myself taking a very comparable set of classes- I started and finished my bio major/chem minor in 5 semesters total, and ironically needed to take 2 semesters off in the middle to finish work in Asia. My schedule looked almost exactly like the first option you posted (ex. for 2 semesters I had a two upper level bios, plus orgo and physics) and I made it work...balancing EC's, shadowing, work, etc. Depending on your need to be abroad for Summer 2012, you can make this a viable option, as long as you've got a pretty serious game face on.

Looking at the second option, I saw a couple good characteristics... If you're able to "throw" yourself into Orgo, I found that it was one of those subjects for me that was easiest if I could get "in the zone" and just work problems/think outside the box and have it be my only academic focus...way more so than any other class I've taken. For the way I study and how my brain learned orgo, taking it as a summer option would have been perfect...not sure if you'd find yourself in the same boat.

Also, with the second option, you'd be giving yourself more time during your semesters to add MCAT studying to the mix. I struggled to find adequate time to study for it...although it worked out in the end for me, I took a big gamble with limiting my time in the months leading up to the test. If I had to do one thing over again, this would be it.

I hope this helps...good luck!

 

[proclus]

I very much appreciate everyone's thoughts and suggestions.

Based on some new developments which only just came to light this week, it's looking like I will need to spend even more time in asia over the next few years, requiring a further alteration of my proposed post-bacc sched.

I'm also wondering what people think about the prospect of accomplishing these post-bacc classes using only the summer sessions, for example:

Summer 2011- CHEM 1 & 2
Fall 2011 & Spring 2012 - (out of the country)
Summer 2012 - ORGO 1 & 2
Fall 2012 & Spring 2013 - (out of the country)
Summer 2013 - BIO 1&2
Fall 2013 & Spring 2014 - (out of the country)
Summer 2014 - PHYS 1 & 2
Fall 2014 - (out of the country)
Spring 2015 - Biochem (& Genetics only if required by a particular school)
**May 2015 - MCAT & apply

Feasible?

 

[NalaDoc]

I very much appreciate everyone's thoughts and suggestions.

Based on some new developments which only just came to light this week, it's looking like I will need to spend even more time in asia over the next few years, requiring a further alteration of my proposed post-bacc sched.

I'm also wondering what people think about the prospect of accomplishing these post-bacc classes using only the summer sessions, for example:

Summer 2011- CHEM 1 & 2
Fall 2011 & Spring 2012 - (out of the country)
Summer 2012 - ORGO 1 & 2
Fall 2012 & Spring 2013 - (out of the country)
Summer 2013 - BIO 1&2
Fall 2013 & Spring 2014 - (out of the country)
Summer 2014 - PHYS 1 & 2
Fall 2014 - (out of the country)
Spring 2015 - Biochem (& Genetics only if required by a particular school)
**May 2013 - MCAT & apply

Feasible?

Eh...in my opinion, now you might be pushing it...that seems a touch too condensed and too spread out to allow for you to successfully absorb the material well enough to survive the MCAT. Also, just an observation...if you take the MCAT and apply in Spring/Summer 2013 but are out of the country, will you be able to be back stateside in order to attend interviews/be available by a US number during US business hours, etc. (in case you're called, rather than emailed, for interview invitations) anywhere from Sept.-April?

However, you know your abilities and your motivation better than anyone, so don't let my opinion dissuade you if this is what you really want. If it's feasible, you might want to consider sacrificing something else in order to devote more time to getting some good exposure to the sciences.

 

[proclus]

Eh...in my opinion, now you might be pushing it...that seems a touch too condensed and too spread out to allow for you to successfully absorb the material well enough to survive the MCAT. Also, just an observation...if you take the MCAT and apply in Spring/Summer 2013 but are out of the country, will you be able to be back stateside in order to attend interviews/be available by a US number during US business hours, etc. (in case you're called, rather than emailed, for interview invitations) anywhere from Sept.-April?

However, you know your abilities and your motivation better than anyone, so don't let my opinion dissuade you if this is what you really want. If it's feasible, you might want to consider sacrificing something else in order to devote more time to getting some good exposure to the sciences.

The *2013* MCAT was a typo, I've edited the post to 2015 as originally intended, apologies for any confusion.

Yes, I plan to be in the states and available for interviews the Spring of 2015 onwards.

My primary concern is also my ability to sufficiently absorb the material for the purposes of the MCAT.

Seeing as I start my gen chem classes the day after tomorrow, I'm just going to have to see how this summer goes and base my schedule accordingly.

 

[TriagePreMed]

If you look around SDN, everyone brags about taking O.Chem 1 and 2 and Physics and work 60 hours a week and the MCAT all within a 6 week summer session. I'd strongly advice you against believing this is the norm or very doable. At my college, students struggle to pass Chem 1 or Chem 2 alone in a 6 week session. They are literally in school since 9am to 4pm only to go study at home all night. If you're serious about med school, I recommend no more than 1 course a summer (unless it's bio and you're good at memorizing) and 2 courses during regular semesters.

 

[EdLongshanks]

If you look around SDN, everyone brags about taking O.Chem 1 and 2 and Physics and work 60 hours a week and the MCAT all within a 6 week summer session. I'd strongly advice you against believing this is the norm or very doable. At my college, students struggle to pass Chem 1 or Chem 2 alone in a 6 week session. They are literally in school since 9am to 4pm only to go study at home all night. If you're serious about med school, I recommend no more than 1 course a summer (unless it's bio and you're good at memorizing) and 2 courses during regular semesters.

This is entirely correct. It is possible to cram a lot of information into your skull all at once, but this sort of learning is usually short term.

Non-trads often feel like they are in a race against their former life, as if they are already 10 or 15 years behind and they have to do all of this as fast as possible or risk total failure. But this is, in fact, the worst possible way to approach becoming a physician. Slow down, even if you are in your 30's or early 40's, we still have the latter half of our life to live. One more year isn't going to destroy us.

 

[proclus]

The *2013* MCAT was a typo, I've edited the post to 2015 as originally intended, apologies for any confusion.

Yes, I plan to be in the states and available for interviews the Spring of 2015 onwards.

My primary concern is also my ability to sufficiently absorb the material for the purposes of the MCAT.

Seeing as I start my gen chem classes the day after tomorrow, I'm just going to have to see how this summer goes and base my schedule accordingly.

Just a quick update:

I'm pleased to report that I got the A+ in CHEM 101 this summer, and was the top scoring student in our class of 92.

As satisfying as that is to my ego (I admit it!), what has been more satisfying is actually to re-engage with the study of basic sciences.

There's just so much cool stuff there.

Trying to get involved with some potentially very interesting research another Chem professor is engaged in here with a cancer treatment focus, but that very well may be hampered by the fact that I can only be in the country during the summers.

Currently in the first week of CHEM 102 with a different professor (fingers crossed for 1st exam on Monday), and then I will be right back in China the day or two after summer session is finished.

Gotta make that money.

So far finding this do-it-yourself post-bacc both rewarding & engaging.

Thanks to everyone here for all the advice and constructive criticism.

 

[LegendaryPunk]

That's great! Glad to hear that you've started off on the right foot Please continue to occasionally update this thread...it may be some time away, but I'm very interested to see how taking all pre-reqs as summer courses affects your MCAT.

One question - when do you plan on fitting in time for shadowing, volunteering, clinical exposure, etc.? Having great numbers is only half of your application.

 

[PTWOB02]

Just a quick update:

I'm pleased to report that I got the A+ in CHEM 101 this summer, and was the top scoring student in our class. So far finding this do-it-yourself post-bacc both rewarding & engaging. Thanks to everyone here for all the advice and constructive criticism.

Congrats! Keep at it and update us once in awhile on your progress. Best of luck.

 

[proclus]

One question - when do you plan on fitting in time for shadowing, volunteering, clinical exposure, etc.? Having great numbers is only half of your application.

Good question.

I volunteer a fair bit in China with a large international charity that provides western medical services to 3rd world kids.

Fortunately that allows me opportunities for service & clinical exposure, at least in the context of a med school app.

Shadowing is more difficult to arrange; although the work with my charity also provides some opportunities, I feel adcoms are probably looking for some less 'glamorous' shadowing experience.

So I plan on working some in with doctor friends in the States over the next 3 summers.

 

[proclus]

Just finished my CH102 final, GenChem is now officially finished and in the books.

Well, at least until MCAT prep begins ...

Wishing everyone gets pleasant results and the end of their summer session!

 

[proclus]

Greetings to all from the Hong Kong International airport Starbucks.

Just had a moment to check on my summer second session grades and was delighted to find an email from my professor informing me that I was one of 2 A+'s in a class of 70.

I share this not merely to engage in anonymous internet braggadacio but also because a lot of people advised me NOT to do this.

I want to encourage those of you who have a humanities background and/or haven't taken a college course in over a decade like me that doing these post-bacc courses during the summer is not only not a bad idea, but can be a very good way to knock them out during a compressed time frame.

Next summer will be the real test with orgo, obviously.

For now it's back to the Middle Kingdom and stacking that paper ...

 

[NuttyEngDude]

Congrats and good luck on your journey.

 

[proclus]

Bless me SDN, for I have sinned. It has been almost 11 months since my last confession.

Just a quick update: I returned from Asia in May to begin my summer organic chemistry sequence at my big state school. Got confirmation of my A in Orgo I a few days ago. It was certainly time-consuming but eminently doable assuming that you have nothing else on your plate in the way of job or other classes.

Don't let people scare you with the supposed difficulty of doing these pre-reqs in the summer, even if you were a humanities major or haven't been in a formal academic setting in a while (as was true for me). As long as you are a competent adult who brings your adult work ethic and enough time to the table you will be more than fine.

That being said, I now feel even more justified in saying that the difficulty of classes like these is most assuredly a function of the professor teaching them, and not of the material itself. It was necessary for me to work at least twice as hard in this class as I should have for the simple reason that the professor was, in short, a profoundly misleading malevolent curmudgeon who reveled in being in a position of power with the ability to "make or break" (I am quoting here) people's med school dreams.

If you have any opportunity whatsoever to modulate your schedule based on the researched "ease" of your professor, I recommend you do so. If you've just completed Orgo I but the semester teaching Orgo II next semester is infamous, take something else next semester and wait for an easier professor. At the end of the day, the primary purpose of a post-bacc for a non-trad is getting A's on paper. Actually learning the material for the purposes of MCAT prep is a distant second, and in my humble opinion should be more a function of one's formal MCAT prep than the classes themselves.

My 2 cents. I'll let you know how Orgo II goes.

Best of luck to all,
-Proclus

 

[proclus]

Just got confirmation of the A in Orgo II.

This A was significantly less time-consuming to achieve than the A in Orgo I, despite *everyone* insisting on how much more difficult the material would be.

In my mind this only lends further credence to my statements in the previous post concerning how the difficulty level of these classes is primarily a function of the instructor writing the tests, and not the subject material itself.

Your primary responsibility in doing your post-bac is putting A's on paper, so do your research folks; it is absolutely worth your time to research which professors you should avoid.

Do your best to ensure that your professor is not an ass, because it means the difference between needing to treat the class as a 40-hour-a-week job to get the A, versus needing to treat the class as an 80-hour-a-week job to get the A.

Do that, and the subject matter will not be a problem, provided you bring your adult maturity to the table ... it's just not rocket science.

Best of luck to all, I'm back to Asia early next week.

 

[NuttyEngDude]

congrats on the grades!

 

[wjs010]

Awesome. I'm planning to take orgos starting winter quarter. I hope that I can well. I currently have a 103% in gen Chem II and final next week. Post bach is a bitxh lol.

 

[Courtjester8]

Great job on the grades but....(oh the dreaded but)

While putting A's on paper is obviously super important, an easy A isn't going to help you come MCAT time. If you find your classes are easy BECAUSE the teacher is making it that way, make sure you are looking at mcat material while you go to ensure you're learning enough to be able to attack the mcat come mcat prep time. You do not want to screw yourself that way.

One more thing...I almost always tried to pick the professors with the lowest ratemyprofessor.com ratings. This may sound counter intuitive however not if you understand the undergraduate psyche. Undergrads just want good grades so they can go out and black out off of natty light and liquor that is sold in plastic bottles. So the professors that actually give a damn about teaching you the material and teaching it well are given the absolute worst ratings. I always learned more from teachers with poor ratemyprofessor ratings than I did from professors with high ratings. And it helped a lot on the mcat.

-cj8

 

[NuttyEngDude]

I found it interesting that I got the best grades with the profs who had the worst ratemyprofessor ratings. but it's still high risk, because you can get that one SOB who is honestly an SOB and not the victim of disgruntled students. This can put you in a world of hurt. Best advice I can think of, find some friends "in the know" who can tell you which profs are good, cross-check ratemyprofessor with them and you're good to go.

 

[proclus]

While putting A's on paper is obviously super important, an easy A isn't going to help you come MCAT time.

My perspective on this is pretty clearly stated in a previous post:

"At the end of the day, the primary purpose of a post-bacc for a non-trad is getting A's on paper. Actually learning the material for the purposes of MCAT prep is a distant second, and in my humble opinion should be more a function of one's formal MCAT prep than the classes themselves."

This is my opinion, and not everyone agrees with it. We will see come MCAT time.

Also I didn't mean to indicate that one's "research" into a professor should primarily focus on ratemyprofessor.com, although it is a good secondary resource.

 

[LegendaryPunk]

Congrats on the continued progress. Sure does feel great when a plan comes together, doesn't it?

Double kudos on the orgo summer grades. I'm wrapping up orgo II this week, and even though I enjoy the class and am going to get my A's...it has been a brutal summer; definitely should have tried to scale back the work or volunteer hours. Anyway, I understand what you just went though, and it has earned you my respect.

Keep up the great work!

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

My perspective on this is pretty clearly stated in a previous post:

"At the end of the day, the primary purpose of a post-bacc for a non-trad is getting A's on paper. Actually learning the material for the purposes of MCAT prep is a distant second, and in my humble opinion should be more a function of one's formal MCAT prep than the classes themselves."

This is my opinion, and not everyone agrees with it. We will see come MCAT time.

Also I didn't mean to indicate that one's "research" into a professor should primarily focus on ratemyprofessor.com, although it is a good secondary resource.

I pick the profs with the best ratings so I actually enjoy the science classes, which encourages me to be better prepared for class and work harder. Have gotten straight As except for in summer Organic Chem I, for which I ignored the ratemyprofessor rating and took anyways. Got my first B.

Proclus, congrats on the awesome grades! You sound very articulate in your posts, btw.