Pros and cons of a new residency program

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tony montana

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There is a new FP program I'm interested in and the PD was talking up what a great experience being the first class would be. I'm sure there would be many challenges. Can someone help me with their opinion of the pros/cons of being the first class with only PGY-1 residents.

Thanks,

Tony

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There is a new FP program I'm interested in and the PD was talking up what a great experience being the first class would be. I'm sure there would be many challenges. Can someone help me with their opinion of the pros/cons of being the first class with only PGY-1 residents.

Thanks,

Tony

Cons - nobody knows what they are doing, how the residents are to be treated/utilized, how best to train residents, no seniors to turn to for advice/help, and since they have no idea what to expect from you -- you may always be falling short of their unrealistic expectations (ie it's better to follow a class where at least someone stunk). There's really no one to talk to to see if the program is malignant because nobody has gone down the road yet.
Pros - you probably learn a lot more since you are often going to be working without a net without seniors, and so you end up doing everything yourself via trial and error (mostly error) --this will be a pro only in retrospect -- at the time it will feel like a con. And attendings may be more willing to teach and be less burnt out in terms of interacting with residents.
 
Pro: The faculty are currently doing all the work. They are used to being on call at night, etc. They might not saddle you with all the work.
 
Pro: The faculty are currently doing all the work. They are used to being on call at night, etc. They might not saddle you with all the work.

Con: The hospital nursing staff doesn't know what a resident is, cuts the resident out, and only takes orders from the attending.

Pro: You get the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to set expectations of what it means to be a family medicine resident (of the future) in your hospital.

Non-Issue: Your continuity clinic.

(Tony, give us more info... community vs university, public/county vs private, opposed vs unopposed)
 
(Tony, give us more info... community vs university, public/county vs private, opposed vs unopposed)


Community - private - unopposed - small hospital.

Thanks to everyone who's participated, your replies are very helpful.

I'm terrified at the possibility that the program may not live beyond its first year and I may be left out in the cold scrambling for another local program to take me. A resident from another local, more established, program tells me other hospitals may not give credit for a all rotations from a non-established program such as this one... :scared:
 
Community - private - unopposed - small hospital.

Thanks to everyone who's participated, your replies are very helpful.

I'm terrified at the possibility that the program may not live beyond its first year and I may be left out in the cold scrambling for another local program to take me. A resident from another local, more established, program tells me other hospitals may not give credit for a all rotations from a non-established program such as this one... :scared:

Sounds like a little fear mongering to me.

Programs generally invest a lot of time and money into developing a residency program. I would find it highly unlikely they would close after a single year in business. That would be a waste and not enough time to figure out if they can make it work.

Secondly, regardless of what these local residents say, if you train at an ACGME program, complete it in good standing, any other program would have a hard time denying you credit as long as you met the requirements of your RRC. It has nothing to do with how well established a program is, outside of another PD having some petty squabble with the newer program.

I was the first fellow in my program and have the same list of Pros and Cons as above:

Pro:

- I could design the program the way I wanted
- people forgot I was there, so I didn't get many calls

Con:

- people forgot I was there, so I didn't get many calls
 
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Pardon my ignorance, but what does opposed/unopposed mean in this context.

I tried the search but didn't find anything.
 
Pardon my ignorance, but what does opposed/unopposed mean in this context.

I tried the search but didn't find anything.

Unopposed means no other residency programs at the hospital, which most (but not all) consider a plus. Opposed means there are others.
 
I've been in a similar situation.

Pros:
-the attendings will act as your senior residents, thus helping you more than they usually would (well, hopefully they will).

-Rounds will be just you and the attending (and maybe students), so a smaller group, more one-to-one attention.

-it's fun. You'll be running the hospital and contributing to the program's growth.

Cons:
-more work for each intern.
-for minor questions, where you'd normally ask your PGY-2 "buddy/go-to person", you'll be thinking: is this worth bothering my attending about?
 
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So do you all agree that the whole issue about the program closing is most likely fear mongering?
 
So do you all agree that the whole issue about the program closing is most likely fear mongering?

Yes. This isn't a hot dog cart we're talking about opening. It takes a lot of time, effort and money to open a residency program. I can't really imagine a scenario (short of the entire hospital closing) that would result in a program closing in such a short period of time.

Now...whether a new program is good or bad for you is something else entirely.
 
Con: The hospital nursing staff doesn't know what a resident is, cuts the resident out, and only takes orders from the attending.


That could be a pro :) less middle of the night calls for tylenol and a low glucose on labs.
 
That could be a pro :) less middle of the night calls for tylenol and a low glucose on labs.

I don't care what people say. New interns need to know how to handle these & other house issues. And if the the nursing staff is calling me, & if I know the patient better than the intern, the intern is dead to me.
 
I don't care what people say. New interns need to know how to handle these & other house issues. And if the the nursing staff is calling me, & if I know the patient better than the intern, the intern is dead to me.

No one here is saying the intern wouldn't know, they are saying that nurses with no prior experience with residents may not know that's who they were really supposed to call.
 
I wouldn't be too concerned about program shut down. It hasn't even started, why would it shut down?

All new programs are placed on probation anyways as a rule and reviewed in 1-2 years. New programs don't have political inertia, and if we're talking about a small, private, unopposed community program, chances are the community and political powers will rally for the program and remove any barriers to RRC full accreditation. Plus, with new programs, the program director has a chance to put the major things into motion the way s/he envisions it. I can't imaging an imminent shut down, especially when the major pieces are probably taken care already prior to launch. And even then, they have opportunity to fix it.

RRC is not the fear. The fear is from funding. Many programs in the last 12 months have been shutting down because of the lost of funds. Bad economy, rising unemployment (and therefore more uninsured), lost of revenues, and the program shuts down. The fact that the program is looking to launch in 2010 means someone is either stupid or confident or both. I'm going to bet that things are ok. But if you have your doubts, ask the PD how the program makes money. When community hospitals become teaching hospitals, their Medicare reimbursement rates for ALL services go up (triple, I believe). So the hospital departments (like dialysis or cath lab) will get reimbursed at a higher rate than they would've been before, regardless of whether or not they are directly involved in resident education. So find out if the hospital will funnel those funds back into the residency program but more importantly, ask how existing patient volume/services rendered currently are and if they're projected to decrease, increase, stabilize. That will give you an idea how financially stable the hospital's line of money is.

2nd question to ask is whether or not you (as a resident) and de facto your residency program will be seeing insured patients. Because the program must make money. If all you're doing is seeing the uninsured, you will get dumped by all the private doctors in the community as the no-doc-no-pay providers and the cost will increase without concomittant increase in revenue. Private doctors in the community will cherry pick all the insured patients and leave the residents with the non-paying ones. At first, private docs will "help with the residency program", but over time, they get tired of that education crap and need to make frickin' money. If your residency isn't set up where it can keep the community private docs in check in the community by holding them where it hurts (i.e. their wallet), your program is destined for shut down.

3rd question to ask is, if FM clinic sees only/mostly the underserved (uninsured, cash-pay, Medicaid, and maybe county), are they designated as FHQC? FHQC's get reimbursed 3-5x Medicaid rates (I think), which is one way of making money for the clinic to keep it afloat. For some FHQC's, they lose money by seeing insured patients, and so they will sometimes not accept patients with insurance (as f'ed up as that sounds).

4th question to ask is what is the distribution of time faculty spends in clinic, precepting, teaching and doing research. Faculty can see more patients and do more procedures/operations than residents can and everytime they're not seeing patients, the program is not getting paid (unless they're working off a research grant). So, if you're program pushes faculty to see patients, you may not see them teach too much. And if you see them teach/research/admin all the damn time, they're not seeing patients. So it's a very fine balance that if not maintained can affect resident education one way or another.

If your program relies solely on the kind generous altruism of the members of the community via a cute little community foundation... FORGET IT. When the economy is bad, no one donates. And when the stock market is bad, the foundation is down... look for some cost cutting measures, like reduction in support staff, even laying off of faculty; not to mention zero reinvestment into the residency program to keep it current, if not ready for the future (such as EMR).

Key to a financially stable program is lots of money coming from lots of places: clinical care from a diversified portfolio of payers, community support via donations/foundation, research grants... such that if any one of these variables drop out, your program can still stay afloat.

No money. No mission.
 
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Is this program in livonia, Michigan? I have heard a community hospital has started an FP program there.
 
It's not FP, but I had a friend/classmate last year match into a new general surgery program. This guy was fabulous and could have gone *anywhere*-- sky-high boards, the only AOA member from Columbia applying in GS, the nicest person in our class-- the total package. He picked the new surgery program in Phoenix because he found it tremendously exciting to build a program from the ground up. Imagine being a surgery resident with no seniors-- just you and the attending on every case. Your technical skills would skyrocket.

I'd think the same pro would be true in FP-- all the cool procedures would be yours. You'd only have attendings teaching you, not fellow residents. Seems like a golden opportunity.
 
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