Pros and Cons of Going to Med School as a Nontrad

[QofQuimica]

It seems that we've had a plethora of threads lately asking if this or that age is too old to go to med school. Everyone's situation is unique, but med school will put us all through the same meat grinder. I think it might be helpful for current and future premeds to have a thread with input about the biggest pros and cons of med school/residency/being a physician. Obviously, those who are further along in their training (i.e., not premeds!) will be able to give more anecdotal observations, but everyone (including premeds) should feel free to post their thoughts. Please also state where you are at in your training so that other readers have some context for your thoughts. The general format is the following:

1) give your rank (and age too, if you're so inclined)
2) what pros you see to going to med school as a nontrad
3) what cons you see of doing the same

I hope we will get some discussion going that will be useful to all of us. Please do *not* flame other users for their opinions or based on their level of training. All of the thoughts in this thread will obviously be the poster's opinion, and everyone is entitled to their opinion about what med school or residency is like or will be like.

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[QofQuimica]

I'll go first.

1) I'm a fourth year med student taking off a year for research. I was 31 when I started med school and am now 34.

2) Pros of med school as a nontrad: I think the biggest pro for me has been that I have more of a sense of perspective. What I mean is that certain things that would have gotten me all upset ten years ago roll off my back better now. Once during first year, one of my trad classmates was all bent out of shape over some minor issue, and I was talking to her about it and reassuring her that it wasn't as bad as she thought. She commented that I really understood how she was feeling, and I told her, "Ten years ago, I was you." After I said that, it really hit me how true that was, and how much I've grown psychologically and spiritually in the past decade.

3) Cons of med school as a nontrad: For me, it was getting used to expectations and a culture that were foreign to me in many ways. I really hate how hierarchical medicine is, although obviously that issue will resolve itself over time as I continue to move up in that hierarchy. I also find that I'm not as physically resilient as I was ten years ago. For example, it seems like all-nighters affect me more than they did when I was my trad classmates' age. Not that I can't keep up the pace, but I feel downright hung over the morning after a night on call, without having had any fun the night before.

 

[ShyRem]

I'll bite.

1. I'm a fourth year applying to residency currently. I will graduate med school on my birthday at the fabulous age of 43.

2. Pros. Life experience. I agree with Q's perspective comment. So much of what traditional students are going through and think is the end of the world I've been through already. I've also been a patient - many times - in lots of ways. I have more empathy with patients who don't want to do PT, think it's too hard, etc. I can look at them and tell them how it's going to be since I've been there. Surgery - same thing. Major illness - same thing. Life experience is priceless.

3. Cons. Guilt. The guilt of balancing mother, wife, med student. The lack of the same amount of time to study. Financial strain is a bigger worry for me than for my traditional cohorts.

 

[J ROD]

1. I am 30 (just turned it!! ) will start med school next Aug and finishing pharm school now.

2. I am battle tested. I can handle alot of crap. I finally get my chance at my dream!!!!!!

3. I will lose alot of money by going and not being a pharmacist. I probably will be affected by those 30hrs shift alot more. I will have to wait to start a family because I dont want to put them through this.


The bolded part says it all to me!! Bring it and I'll bang it!! The only way I stop is in a body bag..

Do work!!

 

[7starmantis]

1.) I'm in a transitional world right now, graduated and now just waiting for med school. I just turned 32 (last week) and "hopefully" will start in August.

2.) I think the life experience, as other have said, is one of the biggest pros. I dont think you really realize how much until you have lived through it. I found myself more focused and determined even in undergrad. Also being married I think can help in med school (along with some cons) with the support aspect and having someone else to help you.

3.) Gray hair. I think all of this is giving me gray hair!!! Although I decided its a good thing because when I'm done with it all I wont "look" like a brand new doctor!

 

[EdLongshanks]

1) Status -

I am 46 and the sole-support for my wife and teenage/post-teen home. One son working and in the National Guard. Daughter in college, and youngest son a Junior in High School. My hopes are to enter Med School - preferably locally - in 2011.

2) Pros of being a non-trad

Because I have a wife who considers taking care of me to be her primary job, I don't have to worry about anything except work, school, and fatherhood. I sleep on clean sheets that I did not wash. Food appears on the table, or floats to my office by the magic of Gena the Genii. The notes that I left in my scrubs when I had to change clothes in the van on the way to the homeless shelter have now appeared on my desk in my office. In short, logistics-wise, I live the life of Reilly.

When I was a single student it wasn't this easy. Laundry was always behind. My appearance was rumpled and frumpy because I didn't know how to take care of clothes. At one point I actually got sick because my eating habits were so poor. In short, I am horrible at taking care of myself.

I also love going to school more now than I did when I was in my twenties. Class doesn't seem like drudgery, but is rather a reward that I get each evening after a day of slaving away at the computer.

Similarly I don't have social distractions from school. I'm married. So I'm not doing the flirting dance with the single females in class. I don't need female attention to make me feel special. My wife and daughter already make me feel like a hero.

3) Cons

I don't have to worry about the logistics of life, but I do have to take care of the logistics of family. I must relive the drama of teenage life because my children are suffering through it. There are many midnight listening sessions on issues that I was glad to leave behind me decades ago. Children don't care if you have a test tomorrow. They know that they have priority. I must not bow to the tyranny of the Urgent. Tests are Urgent. Family is Important.

Finances are different for a family man. As long as my children are at home, I cannot live in a garage apartment to save money. A reasonably large house is a must. While I and my wife may be able to live on Ramen Noodles, I can't in good conscience make my children eat that way. So a large grocery bill is unaviodable. Similarly, I could go around and turn off lights all day long without decreasing the utility bill by much. More people consume more power.

 

[LingoLaine]

1) give your rank (and age too, if you're so inclined)

I'm a 38-year-old pre-med. I have a bachelor's and a master's but am back in college completing the med school pre-reqs. I hope to enter med school at the ripe ol' age of 40 or 41.

2) what pros you see to going to med school as a nontrad

I see tons of pros, mostly related to a new sense of focus that comes from already having achieved all of the OTHER things that were so important to me (marriage, children, home ownership, financial security, etc.). As I see it, at this point med school is a huge bonus in my already rich life. I'm grateful that I have the opportunity to do this amazing thing with the support of my husband and without taking on tons of debt.

3) what cons you see of doing the same

Cons for me are related to the sacrifices (mostly in terms of time that could have been spent together) that my whole family will need to make. I feel guilty knowing that my kids will need to be shipped off to various caretakers and activities while I'm pursuing my dream.

 

[BWSTW]

1) I'm 28, 29 in December and will graduate in a year and hopefully start med school in July 2011.

2) Pros of med school as a nontrad: Maturity, life experiences, pride and respect in having to work hard to get where I am, and being able to take responsibilities seriously.

3) Cons of med school as a nontrad: I too have found that I'm not as physically resilient as I was a few years ago. I work full time and take full time classes and boy am I drained by the end of the day! Having a family is a good thing, but it makes it harder to fit in studying between the housework and the family time. I also think my memory isn't a great as it was a few years ago, but part of that could be due stress and tiredness. Financial responsibilities are a big con when you have a family and bills to pay.

It's all worth it in the end.

 

[lawyerdoc2b]

I am 52-years old. I will enter medical school in August 2010.

Pros: Fulfilling my life-long dream; benefiting society by taking one lawyer out of circulation and creating one new doctor ; having something to hope for other than the drudgery of yet another lawsuit to defend; seeing my youngest chiild qualify for college financial aid instead of being "Obama rich"; no more self-employment tax to pay

Cons: Giving up a six figure salary and living off the earnings of my devoted wife; being 59 or 60 when I finish a residency; paying out $200,000 to attend medical school followed by three or more years of makng peanuts for pay in a residency; adjusting into life studying or attending class, labs, library, etc. 12 - 16 hour a day (better than writing briefs and arguing motions by a long shot)

 

[BennieBlanco]

Applying next year.

There are so many benefits that it is crazy:

• I can blame any and all mistakes on senility
• Opportunity to date women much younger than me
• discounts at movie theaters and restaurants almost a decade before my colleagues
• Medicare eligibility much sooner than everyone else
• ability to rent a car while most can't
• ability to gather around all the students to tell stories of how things were back in the day
• I can cut people off in the parking lot with no consequences also

Cons? None

I can't wait.

Here I am on the first day of class...

 

[jiggz16]

1) give your rank (and age too, if you're so inclined)

I'm a 38-year-old pre-med. I have a bachelor's and a master's but am back in college completing the med school pre-reqs. I hope to enter med school at the ripe ol' age of 40 or 41.

2) what pros you see to going to med school as a nontrad

I see tons of pros, mostly related to a new sense of focus that comes from already having achieved all of the OTHER things that were so important to me (marriage, children, home ownership, financial security, etc.). As I see it, at this point med school is a huge bonus in my already rich life. I'm grateful that I have the opportunity to do this amazing thing with the support of my husband and without taking on tons of debt.

3) what cons you see of doing the same

Cons for me are related to the sacrifices (mostly in terms of time that could have been spent together) that my whole family will need to make. I feel guilty knowing that my kids will need to be shipped off to various caretakers and activities while I'm pursuing my dream.

How did you and your spouse handle the sacrifices? I just got married last August and I barely get to see my wife as a premed and work full time on night shift.

 

[tigress]

I'm 27 and hoping to start next fall. I can't really add that much to the thread except to agree that my life experience puts me in a much different place than traditional students. My perspective on school will be much different than it would have been if I had gone when I originally intended, before my oldest son was born. I know I won't be as stressed about school as I would have been before, and I also think I'm just a better person now and will be a better doctor.

The big con is having to balance school and then residency with being a single mother of 3 kids. I have a lot of family support, and that's the only way I'll be able to do it. Even so, I know there will be a lot of guilt involved. But it's really what I need to do to be happy and satisfied with myself, and in the end that will make me a better mother I think.

Oh and I wanted to add another pro: I went through all of med school with my husband and helped him study quite a lot, was very involved in the whole process, and so I have a very firm handle on what to expect from med school. That's something most incoming students don't have.

Another pro! I really have no fear of lack of sleep. I have a 3-year-old and 18-month-old twins, none of whom actually sleep...so I haven't slept in 3 years and I'm used to it by now Seriously, compared to parenting these kids on my own, I don't think I'm too worried about this process in terms of its demands on me. I'm just worried about how it will affect my time with my kids (not for the first two years, mainly MS3-4 and residency).

 

[Nasrudin]

Bennie, that video and your caption cracked me the F up.

Q, well done. A very nice thread to serve as a crossroads of the many different things that tie us together.

I'll play.

1) 30something. MS-0 as of today....Party @ Nasrudin's place!
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IazFl9DNJbg[/YOUTUBE]

dance w/ me people.

2) Pros. None for me. Physically to begin and arduous journey while one is older, tireder, and beat the F up is worse than starting one back when pain was fun.

Maybe what Q said. My psychological game is at its best and getting better. It used to stink.

3) Cons. The physicality. For me will be difficult. It's difficult after a back injury for me to make it through the pain on normal 10 hour days. Again I'll have to rely on increased psychological skills to keep stress down. And health up.

 

[agirl]

deleted.

 

[Scottish Chap]

Intern here. 32.

Pros: perspective from another career and ability to navigate the political waters in medicine, don't take things as personally as some of the trads in med school and residency (I'm passed caring how good I might look), tried and tested study patters, knowing that the grass isn't always greener on the other side, capacity for hard work, doing it with a family keeps everything in perspective.

Cons: not as physically resilient as I used to be (I could work 100 hours per week 10 years ago in my last career but an 85 hour week in medicine really beats me up now), no longer have ambition, terrible expense of medical school. poverty of residency with my family, impatience/lack or tolerance for lack of professionalism and silliness, don't see my daughter much, getting tortured in a 27 hour shift with constant admissions and floor disasters, with an impossible amount of work, with no time to sit down, eat, think, or pee (enjoy medical school while you can....it's real after that), walking away from a faculty offer from Stanford with a 6 figure salary.

 

[kia ora]

BennieBlanco: I can cut people off in the parking lot with no consequences also

haha! I'm older and I have more insurance...

Nasrudin: 30something. MS-0 as of today....Party @ Nasrudin's place!

well done, sir!

I am 40 (that sounds weird) and will still be 40 when I start med school next August. the pros for me:

1) I've already had a professional career. I am used to, and comfortable with, having a great deal of responsibility. I cannot imagine being a doctor and shouldering the huge responsibility that comes with the career in my early 20s....I don't think I could have done it then. I can do it now.

2) I think I am actually more energetic now than I was as an early 20-something. I take better care of myself now. I run marathons and stuff. no way could I have done that when I was 22.

3) I have a lot more money now

cons: ask me in a year...

go nontrads!

 

[Nasrudin]

BennieBlanco: I can cut people off in the parking lot with no consequences also

haha! I'm older and I have more insurance...

Nasrudin: 30something. MS-0 as of today....Party @ Nasrudin's place!

well done, sir!

I am 40 (that sounds weird) and will still be 40 when I start med school next August. the pros for me:

1) I've already had a professional career. I am used to, and comfortable with, having a great deal of responsibility. I cannot imagine being a doctor and shouldering the huge responsibility that comes with the career in my early 20s....I don't think I could have done it then. I can do it now.

2) I think I am actually more energetic now than I was as an early 20-something. I take better care of myself now. I run marathons and stuff. no way could I have done that when I was 22.

3) I have a lot more money now

cons: ask me in a year...

go nontrads!

Thanks you too!!!

I gotta say what Scottish dude said, is haunting in the corners of my mind. But tonight. It's a midnight showing of Where the Wild Things are with wifey. Partyin down dork style.

 

[J ROD]

Intern here. 32.

Pros: perspective from another career and ability to navigate the political waters in medicine, don't take things as personally as some of the trads in med school and residency (I'm passed caring how good I might look), tried and tested study patters, knowing that the grass isn't always greener on the other side, capacity for hard work, doing it with a family keeps everything in perspective.

Cons: not as physically resilient as I used to be (I could work 100 hours per week 10 years ago in my last career but an 85 hour week in medicine really beats me up now), no longer have ambition, terrible expense of medical school. poverty of residency with my family, impatience/lack or tolerance for lack of professionalism and silliness, don't see my daughter much, getting tortured in a 27 hour shift with constant admissions and floor disasters, with an impossible amount of work, with no time to sit down, eat, think, or pee (enjoy medical school while you can....it's real after that), walking away from a faculty offer from Stanford with a 6 figure salary.

Deep.........

 

[pharmacy85]

1. I am 30 (just turned it!! ) will start med school next Aug and finishing pharm school now.

2. I am battle tested. I can handle alot of crap. I finally get my chance at my dream!!!!!!

3. I will lose alot of money by going and not being a pharmacist. I probably will be affected by those 30hrs shift alot more. I will have to wait to start a family because I dont want to put them through this.


The bolded part says it all to me!! Bring it and I'll bang it!! The only way I stop is in a body bag..

Do work!!

I cant tell if you are being sarcastic. Correct me if I am wrong, but I remember you posting in the past how crazy you think it is to go through med school after four years of pharm?? In any regard, good luck on your new goals!

 

[J ROD]

I cant tell if you are being sarcastic. Correct me if I am wrong, but I remember you posting in the past how crazy you think it is to go through med school after four years of pharm?? In any regard, good luck on your new goals!

I have said I would not recommend it but I have been at my "new" goals since 2005. I planned to get both....

Find that post and I will own it....but I, myself, and me have never thought I was crazy. I might think it is crazy...but perhaps I am crazy....

What are we talking about?

 

[LingoLaine]

How did you and your spouse handle the sacrifices? I just got married last August and I barely get to see my wife as a premed and work full time on night shift.

Well I'm still a pre-med and have been taking the coursework one step at a time so how we actually handle the sacrifices during med school remains to be seen. I am hoping to be home and available for the family from about 5-8pm each weekday. We are planning to hire a live-in nanny/au-pair at some point, probably by third-year, to help with the kids.

 

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

mid-late 30's for me (ok, closer to late than to mid)

MS1, married w/2 great kids. Probably similar pros & cons to many above.

Pros: I've been through good stuff, and bad stuff. Driving to the hospital due to a threatened miscarriage = reason to be stressed. Getting a different grade than you feel you earned on an exam = not so much. My just-out-of-college classmates seem to get more stressed by school related things, and are concerned about the social aspects of fitting in. Better able to see the big picture, due to more experiences in general. I know starting a new job/school/etc seems tough, and that the feelings will fade, and that I'll get used to the pace over time. Feelings of not being up to snuff will fade as I get into the groove.

Cons: as posted above; subjecting yourself to many hrs of study is one thing; being gone from your spouse/family is unfair to them. Tough to find the balance that will allow reasonable academic success + keep life together. School is only one of several important aspects to life, therefore I'll do less well than my less-encumbered peers, despite us all having similar academic abilities. Financial concerns to some extent also; $1,600 per month living expense (financial aid allowance) is a different amount to a just out of college person than to someone with a mortgage and kids who is the primary breadwinner. Concerned about my decision harming the family's quality of life due to substantially lower earnings for 7 or so years (med + residency) versus pre-med school salary.

Other con: less able to kowtow to others; I've always have strived in managing staff to be respectful and kind to my direct reports. My impression and experience for medicine is that there is some abuse of underlings by those in power, and I'm somewhat concerned about what I've heard and seen about this. Thankfully, my support base is not in medicine (read the part about my kids above) and things that in the past would have made me furious, now simply make me smile inside.

 

[NontradICUdoc]

35 y/o, 3rd year medical student with a wife and 3 kids

Pros:

I believe that having a certain maturity has helped me in getting through difficult times. Such as not being too proud to ask for help or talk to the professors or figure out what may have gone wrong on an exam. Because I have been out of college for a while, I got that bar-hopping mentality out of my system a long time ago. Right now, in my clinical years, I believe that being more mature I am able to connect with certain patients a little better.

One thing that I do know that is an advantage is that I do not get caught up in the drama that happens. For one simple reason, I do not care. I am not interested in who slept with who, who is dating who, and who broke up with who. In addition, because I am married and my wife and I have a a strong relationship I am not out to impress anyone in the class so I am the first to volunteer for any demonstration.

Cons:

Having 3 young kids at home makes it difficult to study at home until they are asleep. I do not like leaving them on Sundays to go study but I have no other choice. In addition, I have other things that have to get done that "get in the way" (back to school night, parent teacher conferences, homework help, etc). Sometimes I feel as if I am looked at differently because I am older and had a career and have a family. It feels as though I am not really part of the class especially when I see pictures of parties that I was not invited to. But then again I remember that other than being classmates I have nothing in common with the rest of the class. When they were born, I was in grade school/middle school.

but what frustrates me the most is when I start talking about movies that I watched in the theater and I get blank stares

 

[flip26]

1) Status -

I am 46 and the sole-support for my wife and teenage/post-teen home... Because I have a wife who considers taking care of me to be her primary job, I don't have to worry about anything except work, school, and fatherhood...Finances are different for a family man. As long as my children are at home, I cannot live in a garage apartment to save money. A reasonably large house is a must.

Something is missing here.

If you are the sole support for your fam, and your wife considers taking care of you her primary job, and you need a reasonably large house for your fam (along with the expense that entails), how are you going to be able to afford med school, the loss of your income, and continue to support your fam financially at the same time?

 

[tigress]

A question to add to this thread--did you feel, as a nontrad, like you had very little in common with the majority of your classmates, and as a result did you feel at all socially isolated?

I'm feeling socially isolated right now as a full-time (single) mother of 3 kids (under the age of 4 ), and this is one reason I'm looking forward to school. But I'm afraid I won't really be too interested in most of what's going on with my classmates. I used to post all the time in the pre-med forums here, but now I read them and I just can't imagine that I used to think those things were so important. It's only been 4 years since I applied, but the past 4 years have been almost unimaginable in terms of life experience for me. At the same time, those things *did* used to be important to me, so I understand where they are coming from. I'm just not there anymore.

 

[QofQuimica]

A question to add to this thread--did you feel, as a nontrad, like you had very little in common with the majority of your classmates, and as a result did you feel at all socially isolated?

I'm feeling socially isolated right now as a full-time (single) mother of 3 kids (under the age of 4 ), and this is one reason I'm looking forward to school. But I'm afraid I won't really be too interested in most of what's going on with my classmates. I used to post all the time in the pre-med forums here, but now I read them and I just can't imagine that I used to think those things were so important. It's only been 4 years since I applied, but the past 4 years have been almost unimaginable in terms of life experience for me. At the same time, those things *did* used to be important to me, so I understand where they are coming from. I'm just not there anymore.

I may not be the best person to answer this question, because I was always a little socially isolated, even when I was an age peer of my classmates. In other words, many of the things that matter to the typical female adolescent (clothes, proms, varsity sports, popularity, peer approval, etc.) never mattered to me. If anything, I could be a little too openly contemptuous of what I viewed as their shallowness. The main differences now are that I've mellowed out quite a bit from the high-strung teen I used to be, and in this context, being different is seen as a strength by everyone because of how much medical schools value diversity.

I guess I'd answer your question by saying that it depends on exactly what you mean by having nothing in common. Yes, I still considered myself socially isolated somewhat. But a significant part of that was by choice (i.e., I got invited to the big parties but chose not to go to them), and only partly because we were at different stages in our lives (I did get tired of listening to the gossip EMT alluded to). But it was not because my classmates were trying to exclude me; if anything, the opposite is true. On the rare occasions when I did show up to class social events, my classmates would tease me and act all mock surprised that I was there. It became something of a class joke in a way, about how Q never comes to anything. We would all laugh about it, including me.

I would also point out that there is no inherent reason why your classmates have to form the nucleus of your social life and support network, and I think for many older nontrads that they don't. The main people I hang out with are my old PI and my neighbors. Also, the main medical school social group I have is through one of my ECs, which is nice because we all have similar interests by virtue of joining this group. It's not a bad idea anyway to have friends outside of your class during the first two years so that you have some time away from the people you see on a daily basis. Tension starts running higher when people are stressed.

What I'm getting at is that you will be as involved and social with your class as you want to be. If you don't want to be involved, you don't have to do anything with your classmates. Conversely, I don't think it's very appropriate for a nontrad in their mid-thirties to be behaving like a college frat boy. However, there is a lot of room for compromise in between those two extremes!

 

[NTF]

I would also point out that there is no inherent reason why your classmates have to form the nucleus of your social life and support network, and I think for many older nontrads that they don't.

I agree. I tend to be isolated from my classmates, not because of anything about them, but by my own preference.

I live far from campus, because I wanted a decent apartment for our budget and a neighborhood that was safe. It's sort of rural/suburban out where I live. It's beautiful with valleys and trees and my wife really loves it.

I like my classmates. Most of the time I'm truly impressed with them. But I don't socialize with them mostly because I'd rather spend more time with my family. My social circle is mostly populated by people from my neighborhood who don't really care that I'm in medical school and aren't really that interested in the details of what I do, which is good. Med students (myself included) eventually can't help but talk about school with each other, the gripes and inside jokes. It definitely helps my sanity that when I'm not at school I'm usually not around other med students.

There are a few non-trads I've bonded with, but we don't really spend a lot of time together because we all have kids and spouses to go home to.

I try to enjoy the times I do have with my classmates (gross lab, small group) but I don't foresee becoming close with any of them anytime soon. Maybe 3rd year if I do a rotation with one of them.

 

[tigress]

Q, I know what you mean. I've always been somewhat socially isolated as well, never interested in the typical social stuff. I guess I've been looking forward to med school in the hopes that I'll find some more friends and such, and it occurred to me that that might not happen. Due to circumstance I mainly hang out with my parents right now

 

[gman33]

M2 - 36 yo.

Pros - Age can help give you some perspective on the bigger picture. Maybe a little more empathy dealing with patients as I've been thru some illnesses myself. Better able to set priorities in my life. If I have to study and can't go out or whatever; I stay home and study. Not sure I could have done that when I was 22.

Cons - Giving up time with my wife. We have a strong relationship, but this has really put a strain on it at times and I haven't even gotten to the most time consumming parts yet. I did tons of research and had realistic expectations, but you don't really know what it's like until you get in there and have to spend almost of your waking hours studying, etc. Some can study less and still do well, but I'm not one of those people. If I really knew how it was going to impact me, I would not have done it.

Also, some of the "perspective", can make things harder at times. Going from the working world back into academics can be tough. The school will treat you like child and expect you to just do whatever they tell you to do. My perspective is that I am their customer, paying an obscene amount of money, and they should be doing everything in their power to make the experience easier for you. That's not the way it works, and it can be super frustrating at times.

 

[QofQuimica]

Q, I know what you mean. I've always been somewhat socially isolated as well, never interested in the typical social stuff. I guess I've been looking forward to med school in the hopes that I'll find some more friends and such, and it occurred to me that that might not happen. Due to circumstance I mainly hang out with my parents right now

With all that you have going on, it's probably safe to say that finding some more friends in medical school is going to be very close to the bottom of your list of priorities....unless you are fortunate enough to have classmates who like to babysit.

All kidding aside, having your parents and other family there to support you is what will help you keep your sanity while you're in med school. Even for a nontrad, it's possible sometimes to get caught up in the mass hysteria and need someone to pull you back from the brink. You certainly won't get that sense of grounding from your classmates, many of whom will be freaking out about the upcoming exam even more than you are.

 

[J ROD]

My perspective is that I am their customer, paying an obscene amount of money, and they should be doing everything in their power to make the experience easier for you. That's not the way it works, and it can be super frustrating at times.

I feel the same way coming from a business background.

I often voice my opinion and make "new" friends!!!

 

[NTF]

M1, 36

Pros:
1) Less distracted. Having long since realized and accepted the fact that I am uncool and kind of a dork, I don't expend any more time or energy trying to be interesting or trying to impress. I do what I do and I do what I like.
2) Lack of emotional stamina. Pure and simple, the reason I'm more emotionally stable as an older man than a younger boy is I simply don't have the energy to sustain the kinds of neuroses, compulsions, and paranoias I had when I was in my teens and twenties. It's not that I don't have my freak-outs it's just that they peter out quickly cuz it's too exhausting to be a spaz anymore.
3) Coming home to family and kids.
4) Frugality. I don't spend money on useless crap anymore.
5) No more what-ifs? There isn't anything I feel like I'm missing out on. I'm exactly where I want to be.
6) Efficiency. I'm old. My time is precious. I study only as much as I need to and I don't waste time. 15 minutes waiting for the bus? I read. On the can? Flashcards. Brewing my morning coffee? Write down mechanisms. I don't study on Sundays, 1/2 of Saturday, Monday, Thursday, and Friday Nights (except during exam weeks).
7) Less flustered speaking in public or to patients. Generally. But I'm sure this gap gets closed pretty darn fast.

Cons:
1) It sucks to be away from my family during exam weeks. Somedays I leave before my daughter wakes up and come home after she's gone to bed. Those days suck.
2) I put a lot on my wife's shoulders. Kids, chores, she definitely absorbs the lion's share and I know it'll get worse.
3) Lack of stamina. I definitely can't handle all-nighters like I used to.
4) Physical decrepitude. I have a bad back. Dissections suck for me cuz my back get's sore.
5) Perceived lack of enthusiasm. Being older it just seems weird to me to be the bushy-tailed M1 gleaming with adulation for attendings who aren't that much older than me. I always give respect and I am enthused. Just not doey-eyed enthused. You know, more spock-like fascination and curiosity. It's a calmer enjoyment.
6) Diminished mental sharpness. My classmates are whipper-snapper smart! Me? I get it, it just takes me a little while.

 

[akinetopsia]

1) give your rank (and age too, if you're so inclined)
2) what pros you see to going to med school as a nontrad
3) what cons you see of doing the same

1) Post-bacc pre-med, 29. I'm finishing up organic chemistry and physics this year and I'm undecided if I want to finish a second degree or not, since at the end of the year, I will only need three more classes for a second bachelor's. I may just finish it next fall while I am applying - hopefully for the class of 2015, so I'd graduate at 35. This may change - I don't plan on applying until my application is the strongest it can be, I don't want to have to re-apply. Hopefully one and done, but I will re-apply if I must.

2) The biggest pro I see that a lot of people have touched on and that I agree with is maturity and perspective. When you're 20, you think you know everything, you think your parents didn't know anything, and when you're getting close to 30 (and I'm sure older) you realize just how much you don't know, and that your parents were right most of the time. I was pretty immature from 18-22, and think there is no way I could have been successful in these classes because I did not have the motivation, study habits, or drive that I do know. I also looked awfully young when I was 22, I think now that when I'm a med student, intern and resident, patients and colleagues will at least think I look the part, or maybe mistake me for an attending at first. LOL

3) One con for me is that since I am not married, and with an uncertain future, I feel like it's not a good time to settle down, get married and have some kids, even though I do want that and it seems to be what all of my friends are doing - getting married off and having kids. I think it would be great to have a family and support system throughout medical school but I think I will have a good enough support network with my family, siblings, and friends. The biggest con really though is the opportunity cost. Everyone knows there is a large pricetag in both the cost of attendance and the income you will not earn as a med student and resident. If you are smart enough to get into medical school, you are reasonably smart enough to make a good living doing something else, and you are forfeiting that. It's a sacrifice, but I am willing to make it, without reservations. I still recognize the impact of what I am giving up.

2) I think I am actually more energetic now than I was as an early 20-something. I take better care of myself now. I run marathons and stuff. no way could I have done that when I was 22.

Go on with your bad self. I'm kind of in the same boat - much more health conscious, take better care of myself, eat better, and run marathons as well - just ran the Marine Corps Marathon this past weekend. I think that even though I'll be older than my fellow med students, and residents when it comes to that point, I have a lot of energy naturally so I wouldn't be surprised if I am literally running circles around them (not in terms of talent of course, but in terms of stamina and not dragging/looking tired).

 

[BennieBlanco]

Let me suggest Michael Scott as a good role model for social skills.

Michael Scott: I don't need to be friends with Pam. I have plenty of female friends, my mom, Pam's mom, my aunt, although she just blocked me on IM. What's her face? from Quizno's, I see her four times a week.

 

[engrphd2md]

1) give your rank (and age too, if you're so inclined)
I'm 30, currently finishing up my PhD in Electrical Engineering. If all goes well will apply next year to start in 2011.

2) what pros you see to going to med school as a nontrad
Maturity, I've experienced life. When the going gets tough, I know the grass is not greener on the other side. Regardless of career choice, hard work and persistence is the key to success. I think having experienced more of life, makes me more compassionate towards others, less judgmental and I've learned to deal with stress better. I'm definitely not the same person I was in my early 20's and I think I'd make a much better doctor today than I would have back then.

3) what cons you see of doing the same
Financial loss is a big con. I already have a career were I could be making a decent living, but going to med school will put me in a lot of debt. Also, I'll probably have to wait till I'm done with residency before I have a family. I'll be 40 by then this is a little scary.

 

[njbmd]

Status: Attending physician in an academic practice (vascular surgery) at a university medical center. I started medical school at 46, completed general surgery residency, vascular fellowship. I have a bachelor's degree (summa cum laude), Ph.D- Biochemistry and Molecular Biology and my MD. (I'm old).

Pros: It's all good now that my research lab is up and running.
Cons: None

Medical school is professional school and nothing particularly magical. I met and continue to meet every challenge. I'm not a higher form of life but realistically, I have having a blast doing what I enjoy. My fiance who is a bodybuilder/personal trainer does the same.

In short, if you find find something that you love to do, it's not work. I have been fortunate enough to not have been in any job that I didn't love. Like I said, it's all good now.

 

[ChemMed]

1) give your rank (and age too, if you're so inclined)
2) what pros you see to going to med school as a nontrad
3) what cons you see of doing the same

1) Graduating with my PhD in MedChem this fall, applying to medical school this year (2010) to get in the fall of 2011. I am 29.

2) Pros....perspective,
confidence in myself,
respect for the whole process,
the ability to take a lot of crap and keep going,
realization of my true self and my dreams....and this is it baby!

3) I do not have the same energy level that I had 8 years ago and I will get tired. I have done a lot of research and primarily I have been in charge of my own projects. This is going to end and I think I will miss that freedom, but I wont miss other parts of acquiring a PhD.

In the end its all about the dream!

 

[Lacheln]

Interesting thread.

I'm a 32 yo MS1.

Pros: definitely agree with the life experience bits that others have mentioned. A sense of perspective and direction has been very helpful in staying sane. Personally, I haven't found MS1 to be particularly difficult in terms of workload - it's a job and I do it.

Cons: I feel left behind by my peers financially and socially. Obviously by choosing to leave an established career I understood that money and stability would be sacrificed, and I don't regret it, but on a day to day basis it does bother me to feel like a child all over again. A lot of my identity was wrapped up in being financially secure, and my ego has taken a bit of a hit. On the other hand, I am kind of enjoying the challenge of finding new ways to have fun and explore, and sharpening some budgetary skillz that had atrophied in my cushier years.

Actually, now that I think about it, that's another pro - I've really enjoyed the sense of constant learning I've had this year. I've been challenged in various ways since leaving college, but this is the first time since perhaps my first job where I've felt like it's a whole new world. It makes me feel younger and excited in ways that I don't think I would have appreciated if I hadn't started to coast a little. I feel more open to change and self-evaluation than I was last year, which isn't a bad thing at all.

 

[just thoughts]

Cons: I feel left behind by my peers financially and socially. Obviously by choosing to leave an established career I understood that money and stability would be sacrificed, and I don't regret it, but on a day to day basis it does bother me to feel like a child all over again. A lot of my identity was wrapped up in being financially secure, and my ego has taken a bit of a hit.

Thank you so much for saying this. I'm applying this summer, and while I have wonderful friends that are incredibly supportive, especially when I'm having those "am I insane" moments, sometimes they just don't understand the reality of exactly what you said - because they're not currently, nor will they be living it. I'm excited about med school, but I'm trying to get healthy dose of reality in there, as well, and prepare myself for some of the hard parts that don't have to do with the actual "school" stuff.

Something else that I'm looking forward to - not having to work a 9 or 10 hour day in IT, and THEN shift gears and think about O-Chem or Biochem.

 

[CremasterFlash]

38 years old. first year student. married, ten month old daughter. 12 years in the financial sector.

pros - i absolutely love what I am studying and can't wait to practice medicine. i am the oldest person in my class by about ten years and it's great. my classmates are fantastic, smart, fun people and have been very welcoming of me and my family. if anything, i get more credit and credibility than i deserve, just for having been on the planet a while.

cons - not too many. i would like to explore trauma surgery as a career but i know that's probably not realistic.

 

[murfettie]

25 (turning 26 in the fall)
applying this cycle
pro: worked a little, traveled a little.
smaller ego
like people better even if they are grumpy
smiles more

con: none.
i wish i made a little more money between college and now

 

[Deely]

Your story inspires me so. I'm 43 myself, and wish I was where you are now. Congradulations. I can only imagine what it took to get where you are. It's hard, at any age I'm sure, but when your older, well I question myself, I just don't know if I'm smart enough to make it!
Dee Dee

 

[Nanon]

Bennie, that video and your caption cracked me the F up.

Q, well done. A very nice thread to serve as a crossroads of the many different things that tie us together.

I'll play.

1) 30something. MS-0 as of today....Party @ Nasrudin's place!
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IazFl9DNJbg[/YOUTUBE]

dance w/ me people.

2) Pros. None for me. Physically to begin and arduous journey while one is older, tireder, and beat the F up is worse than starting one back when pain was fun.

Maybe what Q said. My psychological game is at its best and getting better. It used to stink.

3) Cons. The physicality. For me will be difficult. It's difficult after a back injury for me to make it through the pain on normal 10 hour days. Again I'll have to rely on increased psychological skills to keep stress down. And health up.

WHAT??? WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOO!!!! Congrats!

 

[knightstale4]

1) give your rank (and age too, if you're so inclined)
2) what pros you see to going to med school as a nontrad
3) what cons you see of doing the same

1. I am a pre-med applying this fall. I am 23 right now, and will be 24 when I start medical school, if everything goes according to plan (God willing).
2. Honestly, even at 23 and one year out of undergrad, I have a lot of life experience. When you have a friend who tries to commit suicide, a father who was burned trying to save his daughter, and parents with no health insurance so they have to delay important surgeries like hernia and cataracts, you tend to grow up. Right now, I work in Student Affairs, and I have gained a lot from this job as well. I know how to stay calm when everything is going crazy, how to talk to rude students/parents, I am used to being woken up at 3 something because some idiot threw up in the cab and didn't give the cab driver money (Residence Life gives you wonderful stories), I am much more optimistic and look back less on regrets/past. I also judge people less now. I think I have become a much better person than I used to be in the past (less cocky, more caring). Also, I now know that I want this, not because someone willed it for me, but because I cared for it and I went after it.
3. Other than loss of financial independence (since 2005 ), I guess not much. I am not married, no kids, and my friends and family are very supportive. I am very blessed, and by taking this step, I don't feel like I would be giving up anything very important.

 

[sindadel]

1. Just finished M1, 33 this summer, 3 kids, married

2. I know how to study effectively. I don't feel embarrassed to be wrong. I have a lot of confidence in my ideas, and am willing to put forward a theory. I am comfortable taking weekends completely off and not studying at all, while my colleagues feel nervous to spend so much time away from the books (P/F school).

3. Cons? None. I'm a woman, and I wanted kids. If I hadn't already had them, I would have been contemplating residency, or the first few years of being an attending for time reasons. I see my attendings with toddlers, and they look exhausted. For me, this was the best possible way to sequence things. Of course it sucks to spend so much time away from my husband and kids, but worthwhile things take time.

Perhaps the one con is that since I don't spend weekends socializing, it's harder to get to know people. But the upside to that is that when I do get a chance to go out to the bar, people are happy and surprised. But that certainly was a downer for the first few months as people were bonding tightly. It's taken me a little longer, but things look rosier now than they did in november.

 

[PharmaTope]

Intern here. 32.

Pros: perspective from another career and ability to navigate the political waters in medicine, don't take things as personally as some of the trads in med school and residency (I'm passed caring how good I might look), tried and tested study patters, knowing that the grass isn't always greener on the other side, capacity for hard work, doing it with a family keeps everything in perspective.

Cons: not as physically resilient as I used to be (I could work 100 hours per week 10 years ago in my last career but an 85 hour week in medicine really beats me up now), no longer have ambition, terrible expense of medical school. poverty of residency with my family, impatience/lack or tolerance for lack of professionalism and silliness, don't see my daughter much, getting tortured in a 27 hour shift with constant admissions and floor disasters, with an impossible amount of work, with no time to sit down, eat, think, or pee (enjoy medical school while you can....it's real after that), walking away from a faculty offer from Stanford with a 6 figure salary.

good post and realistic. thank you for this

 

[descartes1982]

law student, turning 28 in the fall - After my undergrad in biochemistry, I went on to complete a Master's degree in molecular biology, then entered law school. - I plan to apply in 2011 for the 2012 entering class
I always feel like I need to give medicine a shot since it's something I've secretly wanted to do since I was 12 but later on in life, I felt like I should test out different career paths. Many people think I'm nuts but I have to do something that I've wanted since I was a child.

Pros - definitely I've had more years of life/academic experience than many undergrads entering medicine; time management in law school has been a tremendous amount of work and dedication; and it has taught me so much.

Cons - people think as an older student, my brain will not be able to retain as much information as someone fresh out of college; we'll see about that; My brain has not deteriorated in law school and it certainly won't in the next few years as I embark on this medicine career.

 

[TicDocDoh]

1) I'm a first year med student. I was 42 when I started med school and am now 43.

2) Pros of med school as a nontrad: I don’t feel like I’ve missed out on anything. I had a lot of interesting life experiences that I don’t think I otherwise would have had if I had done this when I was 22.

3) Cons of med school as a nontrad: the social isolation of being so much older than my classmates.

 

[Arizona PA]

1. Pre-med, 36 years-old
2. Pros: I'm already a physician assistant but want to take my knowledge and skills to a higher level. I believe I will have a definite advantage and would expect my grades to be excellent considering what I went through in PA school.
3. Cons: Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Repeating coursework I've already done. Wish there was a PA-MD bridge program. Thinking out loud: why can't I be satisfied with being a PA? . . .because I'm not a doc. Feel like a second-class citizen in medicine.

 

[spiderpete]

48 y/o, glide after post-bacc, applying for 2011 admission, married, kids 12, 9, 6 y/o


Pros -

• More focused and willing and able to work harder. The result is I am a better student.
• Greater confidence. Faith in persistence and hard work. Post-bacc classes and MCAT tempered this confidence; there will be failures along the way, and I simply will not be the best at most of the coming challenges no matter how hard I try. But I know what it takes to get things done and to do them well.
• Financial security - I started paving the way for this day several years ago so that my family would be fully supported while I am in med school and residency. While this meant I started later, it is the priority I chose and the peace of mind it gives me lets me better focus on this new career.
• Accepting responsibility for others comes naturally to me now in a way it could not have when I was much younger. Having a family, managing employees, caring for tenants and their homes have all taught me patience, and understanding and compassion I simply did not possess in my early 20’s. I think this will make me a better doc.
• A keener sense of what really matters to me. It isn’t money or position, but rather the impact I make on others lives. The results of work in business (and I am sure many aspects of medicine) can often be pretty far removed from how it affects people. But my limited experiences in medicine have been deeply satisfying and rewarding.
• I love it! The nature of the material is fascinating and it keeps getting better. I enjoy going to class, studying, reading, and learning. I expect it to be hard, but that doesn’t bother me - yet
• I am a good example to my kids.
• I find it easy to relate to people regardless of age or background. Again, this is just experience (lots of time with kids, work, travel, family, etc.).
• New friendships. No, I am not a cavorting 20-something. But I made good friends as a post-bacc and I expect more of the same in med school..

Cons -

• My family has to go thru med school and residency too. The cost in time and stress will be real.
• I hate having to work for someone who is bad at what they do (one of the reasons I like being an entrepreneur), and this will undoubtedly occur along the road. This is offset by the opportunity to work for/with brilliant and interesting people too.
• Very limited time for other passions like climbing, coaching, time with friends, travel.
• Yeah, there is some drop in mental acuity and physical skills - but I am also more focused and take better care of myself (diet, exercise) than ever before.
• Possibility of moving. We really like what we have now, but we’ll do it for certain opportunities.

I wouldn’t trade this for anything!