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Psych Faculty & Sexual Impropriety

Discussion in 'Psychology [Psy.D. / Ph.D.]' started by DynamicDidactic, Nov 15, 2017.

  1. PhDPlz2011

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    Hey, we agree about a lot! I also find it super confusing when my male friends send me think piece after think piece about how hard it is for men to figure out how to work with women without harassing them. It doesn't seem complicated to me either.

    I do have some ideas about what to do about it: for one, I think men are generally better positioned than women to say something to other men when they cross a line, even by a little bit. What do you think about that?

    I also think that when men respond to women's stories with reflective listening statements and empathy, it sends a message to other men that they value women's voices and are interested in learning from their experiences. What do you think about that?
     
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  3. Justanothergrad

    Justanothergrad Counseling Psychologist
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    I've never understood what was difficult about being a reasonable human being (being respectful, being considerate, not raping people, etc etc) either,but I mean, it is clearly more difficult than that for some unknown reason.
     
  4. msgeorgeeliot

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    Meregold, I agree with everything you've said, including my overreaction to "juicy gossip" (which indeed triggered my vitriol). OP's post was a good one, and I'm glad we're having this discussion -- especially now that you've done us all a favor by sharing your observations and, hopefully, refocusing the discussion on what would actually be productive.

    Regretfully, I have to actually go do work now. (Is it ironic that I'm doing therapy today with 20 women who are rape survivors? I'm like Alanis Morrissette in never being quite sure.) But I will check back in tonight.
     
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  5. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Board Certified Neuropsychologist
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    I am interested in learning, which is why I have frank conversations with my wife and close female friends about the subject. And, I'm not as upset by the anger and message, more disheartened in some ways because I see it as having a polarizing effect, leading many to be turned off. Justified or not, it is the effect.

    As to my own behavior, that's where the messaging also turns many off. It is still lumping me in with the sexual predators, and I just don't accept that notion. I'm just curious as to what exactly one must do to not be characterized in one homogenous group? At one point am I not contributing to this oppression? Can you understand why some people may wonder "what's the point?" when that's the message they are receiving. At what point do our personal good deeds outweigh the ills of society at large?
     
  6. PhDPlz2011

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    The power dynamics in your example of being objectified sounded different to me than the power dynamics that I thought were the focus of this thread. I'm really sorry for misunderstanding your experience. I am definitely interested in hearing your thoughts on how to address these problems.
     
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  7. PhDPlz2011

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    What I would ask you to think about is the fact that this conversation is not merely intellectual for many people, particularly for women. So, for you, it may make sense to stay at an intellectual level on this board and engaqe in more emotion-driven conversation with people in your personal life, but I would argue that it isn't fair to expect that of people whose daily lives are impacted by sexual misconduct.

    I can totally see how the messaging around personal responsibility turns many off. I am white, and I have had that experience in discussions of racial justice, white privilege, and ally-ship. However, I come back to the answer that "the point" is greater justice, and that greater justice is an important enough goal for me to put aside the discomfort I feel when I am asked by someone who is rightfully angry to accept my role in the oppression of their group and to change my behavior in order to resist that oppression.
     
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  8. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Board Certified Neuropsychologist
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    I am attempting to engage at both an intellectual and emotional level. But, I still think one my big questions is unanswered. Can I acknowledge that someone can be rightfully angry at systemic oppression and have the right to not feel guilty for not having "done enough" in my personal life to not further that oppression? Especially when "enough" is an undefined concept that I have no input in?
     
  9. Meregold

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    I remember watching Gaslight with my grandpa as a kid and the scene where Ingrid Bergman is at a piano concert/ fancy house party thing. Her husband (obviously the bad guy because it's the 1940s and he has a German accent) and he's accusing her of stealing mid-performance and she just starts sobbing during the concert loudly and everyone just thinks like there's something very wrong and rude about this woman. She's unstable. But when people have been in (abusive) situations where they are denied avenues to directly process their emotions, sometimes those emotions come out in socially inappropriate ways. The problem is when the first reactions is "stop being a angry/ sad/ whatever" instead of "I'm sorry you're going through this, is there anything I can do to help?", you sort of inadvertently participate in blocking the avenues to process emotions.

    No one thinks that you (all of you) are Harvey Weinsteins that should have to answer for his actions. But sometimes when people have been beaten down for years, they can't keep their emotions down. And yeah it sucks. I'm from the deep South. When a person of color treats me as if I am a racist sometimes it hurts my feelings. And I hear you that there is research about what tactics are persuasive and berating others is generally not one of them. But at the same time I have a brain and my ability to judge something right or wrong is not contingent on someone who has been wronged to explain it nicely to me. So I swallow my hurt feelings and my anger and try to listen to them, and pick out the source of their anger and how I can best help. Take it in stride, focus on the bigger picture. And talk about the best ways to persuade people when they're not digging into such a deeply sensitive, personal, hurtful topic.
     
  10. PhDPlz2011

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    I don't speak for all women, but I'm not that interested in whether you feel guilty or not. I AM interested in what you are doing to stop the forms of oppression that we are talking about in this thread. I would say that none of us will have done enough until women are not systematically oppressed. I certainly haven't done enough.
     
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  11. Justanothergrad

    Justanothergrad Counseling Psychologist
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    I don't disagree with the need to have this conversation (I hope that is clear from every post I've made in this thread), but I will tell you that I feel less involved and open to sharing in this dialog because of how my experiences and approach to discussion has been attacked/dismissed. I'd be happy to share in PM the depth at which this frustrates me and the reasons for it, but I'm skeptical that alienating people who are allies in a fight against a problem is useful.

    They are different than those by OP. They were exemplifying the issues raised by WisNeuro that you dismissed when he disclosed that he has been sexually harassed. I wanted it to be very clear that just because I am a male it I do not see all smiles as sexual harassment and that yes, I too, can have the same experience and not like it. The issue that I see as thematic to this thread is sexual harassment/assault and what we need to do about it. If we want to address those problems, I don't see it as possible to say it only matters in one area (gender dynamic, power dynamic, etc.). That said, there are clearly different solutions for those different areas and some are more easy to tackle than others. Institutionally supported/allowed harassment (and I agree with you that it can't be 'a smile' to constitute being hit on) need firmer and more impactful responses from the institution. The APA ethics code should go more in depth outlining what constitutes an ethical violation related to this abuse of power since I consider grad students to be a disadvantaged population because of their role.

    How to frame that and what to set as the bar is a difficult one to answer. Moreover, I'm concerned with how to handle the fear of repercussions that is pervasive in the culture of victim silence. That's the part we need APA activism on in my mind, as a first step.

    I'll send you a PM shortly.
     
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  12. erg923

    erg923 Regional Clinical Officer, Cenpatico National
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    Right. Not framing things as "guilt by association" is important. I dont need to have a conversation about how my actions are harming women in my life, because they aren't. And to tell me that that is only acceptable admission and subsequent dialogue is off putting, and indeed makes me think "what the point?

    I can really only control my behavior. I contribute my time to causes that I consider moral (usually through out parish), but my social justice radar is not always about correcting the behavior or attitudes of strangers. I live a moral existence and encourage other to do so too.
     
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  13. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Board Certified Neuropsychologist
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    I get the sentiment, somewhat. But this anomalous "not enough" is problematic. Should I quit my job and dedicate my life to the cause? I mean, people with neurological impairment don't need the help all that much. Do I forgo having children so I can dedicate my life to the cause because they are kind of a time suck? Also, what if I can only dedicate my entire life to combating one system of oppression? Are POCs or the LBGT community just out of luck until we get this one out of the way? Yes, it's hyperbolic, but this is a huge elephant in the room. I can go on and on about how I am doing things to not contribute to the systemic issues, but I guarantee they will be deemed, not enough. If that's the way it is, so be it. I can still go on living a good life, doing (mostly) good things, and teaching my future children to be (mostly) good future people. I'm not interested in living up to some undefined and unreachable "good enough" standard. It's just as polarizing as the dismissiveness we see from certain political segments of society.
     
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  14. Meregold

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    Man you are just really missing the point and it's a bummer :/
    Like someone disclosed months of sexual abuse and your only reactions was "well you don't have to be so rude, it's not my problem". Couldn't even manage to muster an "I'm sorry that happened to you"? The point is to care about people and make the world a less abusive place. If that doesn't resonate strongly enough for you to care you're welcome to not post. But just repeating SAY IT NICER is not helpful.
     
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  15. PhDPlz2011

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    Sure, I'm right there with you. You can't change everything and you can't be passionate about every cause. But you decided to engage in this thread and you CAN change the way you respond to women when you talk to them/us about issues of sexual misconduct. Going back to meregold's earlier point...you can decide to swallow your defensiveness when women express anger toward all men as a response to their experiences of repeated victimization by men. That doesn't require changing your whole life.
     
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  16. erg923

    erg923 Regional Clinical Officer, Cenpatico National
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    Is that what i said?
     
  17. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Board Certified Neuropsychologist
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    I agree, and in personal conversations and in clinical experiences, that's the way it goes. But here, in a impersonal, non-therapeutic setting, I am interested in in how we navigate the questions I raised. In some ways you are being just as dismissive as you accuse others of being. Instead of talking about the issues raised on how to engage in these issues and communication, the answer is to just swallow my pride and suck it up. Can you see how the communication issues can be bidirectional here?
     
  18. erg923

    erg923 Regional Clinical Officer, Cenpatico National
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    Couldn't I say you haven't "done enough" to help cure cancer/diabetes/world hunger/land mines/AIDs, etc.

    My "enough" is that I don't sexually harrass anyone, dont tolerate it if i see it, and generally teach moral lessons to my children about treating all people with respect. What are you suggesting, exactly? When have I reached "enough" and does that apply to all causes or just this one?

    Why would I do this?
     
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  19. PhDPlz2011

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    Well, with respect to this conversation, I would be interested in hearing what you are doing or what you think could be done to reduce sexual misconduct in the institutions you work in. What does "not tolerating it" look like? I can't imagine that the purpose of the thread was just to critique the ways in which women talk about their experiences of sexual violence in their academic institutions.

    Edited to add: the difference I see between cancer/diabetes/world hunger etc. and sexual misconduct is that sexual misconduct is actually something that each of us can address from right where we are, wherever we are (not necessarily right in this moment, but in our daily lives). And when we don't address it (every day, at each opportunity), we allow it to continue. It happens in our workplaces, on our streets, etc. We don't have to go anywhere or get any specialized training to make an impact, but we do have to be willing to think critically about the behavior we have been socialized to tolerate and engage in. Because of that, none of us have done enough. To be more concrete: I once interrupted a rape that was happening in a nightclub bathroom, at some personal risk to myself. If I see another rape happening in another nightclub bathroom, I need to interrupt that one too...it's not enough that I did it once, even though it was a big deal to that woman.
     
    #68 PhDPlz2011, Nov 16, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
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  20. Meregold

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    Why, yes. in much more words. Part 1: Don’t be so mean” “This emerging vitriol toward male posters and males in general is misplaced and uncalled for…Encouragement of more productive dialogue is shut down by use of a silly, faddish, term whose sole purpose is invalidate ones point/point of view because they are of a particular sex (male). Awesome…Whatever its historical origins, would you agree that an attempt for more productive dialogue in this thread was shut down in the name of this term? …No. Your dictating of what content is acceptable in the dialogue (and what you will "dismiss")is...with justification by use of the term.”

    Part 2: “Not my problem” “I dont need to have a conversation about how my actions are harming women in my life, because they aren't. And to tell me that that is only acceptable admission and subsequent dialogue is off putting, and indeed makes me think "what the point?”...I can really only control my behavior. I contribute my time to causes that I consider moral (usually through out parish), but my social justice radar is not always about correcting the behavior or attitudes of strangers. I live a moral existence and encourage other to do so too"



    Can we get back on track? Like, the point of this thread was to talk about abuse on campus and it’s been hijacked into a debate about sexual abuse victims being nicer. None of us have done enough on any of those things. We can all do better. So let's talk about it.


    Those in positions of authority (Professors, mentors, directors, etc). Some of you mentioned times where undergrads hit on you. Do you think this happens frequently? Has it happened to you or someone in your department? What was your/ their reaction? Is there protocol to this (i.e. do you need to report it or keep a record or something?). Do you feel like your power over them made you safer or more vulnerable because you had so much on the line? Share your experiences, if you want.



    Those who have been assaulted/ harassed by someone in authority over you (or know someone who was): how did it make you feel? Did you ever tell anyone and was anything ever done about it? Was it once, or ongoing. An off-handed remark that made you feel discriminated against, or something more serious? What do you feel the "good guys" who are in authority can do to help protect others like you?
     
  21. erg923

    erg923 Regional Clinical Officer, Cenpatico National
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    I'm not doing anything cause I don't see it happening, nor do i hear it reported. Again, what actionable steps are you suggesting I should be taking here?
     
  22. erg923

    erg923 Regional Clinical Officer, Cenpatico National
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    So, if I dont spend my Saturdays playing social justice warrior, then I'm essentially saying "not my problem." Got it.

    You got higher moral standards than this Catholic boy....thats for sure.
     
  23. Meregold

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    Is that what I said?

    I don't know your life. I'm not interested in laying all our good deeds out and comparing our respective moral clout. I'm sure you're a wonderful person. I'm just saying in this particular moment you're being cruel. You're taking a topic that should be about victims and making it about you. Your offense, your hurt feelings, your sense that you're doing enough with your life already. And you couldn't even muster a "man I'm sorry that happened" do someone disclosing horrible rape and abuse. Rather you decided to spend all this time telling her to talk about her rape nicer. To speak in a language us Catholics can understand, you've strained a gnat and swallowed a camel. Just muster an ounce of empathy next time. Geez.
     
    #72 Meregold, Nov 16, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
  24. PhDPlz2011

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    If you don't see it happening, one actionable step you could take would be to ask the people in this thread what to look for. It's definitely happening (unless you work all alone all the time).
     
  25. Justanothergrad

    Justanothergrad Counseling Psychologist
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    If one were aware of basic social psychology literature I think there is an argument against in group/ out group approaches to cooperation hidden cleverly in this thread.
     
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  26. Justanothergrad

    Justanothergrad Counseling Psychologist
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    Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, agreed. Nor is it evidence of evidence.
     
  27. Meregold

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    @PhDPlz2011 What do you think people should look for? Do you mind sharing your experiences with this and what you think others could have/ should have done to help?

    @Justanothergrad you mentioned earlier you felt your experiences had been dismissed. I'm sorry about that. If you feel comfortable, I'd love to hear more about your experiences on the other end of the spectrum. Do you think it's common? What do you think others can/ should to do better address it. You mentioned perhaps your experiences with harassment being given less weight because you are a man. Did you experience that reaction in real life as well? How would you like to see that addressed?
     
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  28. erg923

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  29. PhDPlz2011

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    @Meregold, I don't know that I'm an expert in what people should look for...in thinking about experiences that I've had, I think it's really helpful when people address a questionable interaction (say, one in which my body, appearance, or romantic life was discussed) and offer to help. For example, I had one supervisor who was actually an incredibly nice man but who continuously discussed changes to my body during my pregnancy both in private supervision sessions with me and in group clinical meetings. The only people who asked me how I felt about it were my fellow trainees, and it was really validating to have them recognize that what happened might have been uncomfortable for me (as it was). It would have meant a lot to me if a faculty member--male or female--had reached out to say that they had noticed my discomfort, or that they themselves were uncomfortable, and to ask about my experience and offer support in addressing the issue. This was a fairly benign example...again, I felt safe with this person and don't believe that he meant to harm me...but it also really impacted my training experience with him to know that he was monitoring my body so closely. In a nutshell, I guess I would encourage people with power in their institutions to look out for the kinds of interactions I've described and to be willing to be the buzzkill who brings them up and notes their questionable-ness.
     
  30. Meregold

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    @PhDPlz2011 Thanks for sharing! That is super messed up. I think that's super poignant though that the best thing people can do a lot of the time is be aware that the things that sound innocuous to them, may be super isolating to others, and that they should work to broaden their perspective and be willing to call stuff out. Thanks for the input!
     
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  31. PhDPlz2011

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    Yes! And just to be willing to ask. I think people are really reluctant to make something out of nothing, but it's been my experience that it is really worthwhile to say, "hey, I noticed that X put his arm around you. I don't know much about your relationship and I just wanted to check in about how you felt about that kind of contact." Or, depending on the dynamics of one's own role in an institution, "hey, I noticed that you put your arm around Y. I don't know much about your relationship but I wondered if Y is comfortable with that kind of contact. What do you think? How do you know?" Are these conversations uncomfortable? Of course! But they are a lot less uncomfortable than being harassed.
     
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  32. erg923

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    I think if I noticed a discernible negative reaction from this person, I would do exactly this. In the absence of this, I probably would stay out of it. I was raised very much in a culture of "mind your business", and even as psychologist, I hesitate and have conflicting feeling about inquiring into other people personal business unless I am invited into it.
     
  33. Meregold

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    I totally sympathize with that! And I also think you have to be very careful because if the person is comfortable with whatever you're inquiring about, you (I, anyone) may come off as judging their relationships and boundaries. But I also think it's good to be aware of what PhDPlz said earlier that really resonated with me--just having someone validate your discomfort is *incredibly* comforting. So many times when no one else says anything we question ourselves, assume we're the problem, assume no one else cares, assume our feelings are overreactions. Just having one person say "hey I noticed this and that's super weird" can go so far!
     
  34. MamaPhD

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    I'm sorry to hear that this happened to you, and I appreciate your willingness to share it. It is unpleasant but useful to be reminded that this happens, under our noses, very often. Sometimes I think we give too much weight to minding our own business. It's not enough to be passively indifferent, far worse to be a bystander. I'm sorry no one ever made trouble on your behalf, and thanks for reminding me to be a troublemaker when I see something that doesn't quite add up. I hope that you have been able to find some way of making meaning from your experiences.
     
  35. foreverbull

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    I'll step in with an analogy: this reminds me of when white folks don't want to take any responsibility for racism in this country because they're the good, enlightened, liberal ones who "escaped" any seeds implanted from our society from birth. I played that game for a few years before I realized I was part of the problem in my both colorblindness and blindness to the messages of society throughout my entire life saying that white people were better than any other race in this country (and I became aware that I did in fact internalize some of those messages and couldn't say that I never had/have automatic thoughts that are racist). I still continue to challenge occasional racist automatic thoughts, and I'm a highly-educated professional who was in a strong multicultural program.

    I'm not saying that all men are bad in the slightest. We all have opinions, and this doesn't have to be a "men vs. women" dynamic or vice versa at all. However, women victimized by men have a right to be angry because men as a group tend to perpetrate at a much higher rate plus they have more power in society, so you might see how critical or defensive responses from men (who inherently have more power) to someone who experienced trauma from men may seem dismissive.

    To assert that you are not and were never part of the problem despite being raised to see yourself in a privileged and powerful position over every woman (as we are raised to believe in this culture that men have more inherent value) would seem unrealistic. I'd like to know if any men in here have really sat and thought about all of the interactions they've had and self-reflected on their privilege and power. Have they come face-to-face with their own complicity in maintaining the power dynamic (past or present)? Do they see how subtle cues they might show/exhibit might intimidate women or be subtle attempts to exert more power/influence? Do they notice any differences in how they choose to interact with women than with men and their intentions in this? Are they aware of how just being male may have given them a leg up in graduate school applications, interviews, jobs, and accolades throughout their lives? Self-reflection is key. We know that among medical doctors, more male doctors are likely to refer to female colleagues by their first name and not their titles, which is an example of how well-meaning men are complicit in denigrating women, but that's just one example of many. To assert that you already know all of this and aren't/haven't been complicit in maintaining the power dynamic as is and never have in your life despite the barrage of messages from society that men are more deserving of power, accolades, etc. would seem unrealistic.

    As far as guilt, back to the race example, I do feel guilty at times, and I think that's okay. I still have it WAY easier than ethnic/racial minorities in this country by far. A little guilt is a small price to pay for greater self-awareness and commitment to change, and being a better ally to ethnic/racial minorities. I would say the same for men who don't want to be "lumped in" with harassing/assaulting men: continuous self-reflection and calling it out when you see it goes a long way in any of these scenarios. And yes, harassment can go both ways, for sure, but that argument is often used as a deflection to keep from self-reflecting on one's own power/behaviors when, as I said, the vast majority of harassment and assault comes from the group in power (i.e. race: "but X ethnic group also commits crime against police so it goes both ways so lets talk about that instead...").

    Just food for thought, folks. This is more of a reflection/request than a discussion point.
     
    #84 foreverbull, Nov 16, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
  36. erg923

    erg923 Regional Clinical Officer, Cenpatico National
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    My wife does not work (by choice). And I generally maintain the financial decision making in our household. I do not do laundry. What does this mean? Is this "complicity in maintaining the power dynamic." If so, my wife seems to not want this power. So who's to blame here? Me or her? Who should be made to feel guilty? It sure seems like your suggesting that someone should be made to feel guilty here.
     
  37. foreverbull

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    You seem to be splitting hairs, here. If it was a mutual, egalitarian decision, that's a non-issue. However, if people outside of your family make assumptions based on that, you do your best to correct them so they don't take it for granted that either of you would automatically fall into those roles because you're expected to.
     
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  38. dynamicdog

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    Obviously in every intimate relationship roles are personal and specific to the people involved. Nothing is intrinsically wrong with a marriage where the man is the sole earner and the woman does not work. In fact when children are involved it is often the more viable option in terms of finances and overall resources. HOWEVER- it is possible to both make decisions that make sense to you and your family AND also be complicit with/unconsciously influenced by larger societal power dynamics. We all are. It's not an easy thing to acknowledge- but important to for anyone with relative power.
     
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  39. Meteora

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    While this topic is about sexual impropriety, I have also noticed general differences in respect towards female instructors compared to male instructors. This is in the form of romantic advances, and rudeness (verbal and via email). Anecdotally from other senior faculty/students, I've heard unfortunate or troubling things similar in scope to some of the posts here. It's a serious issue in the world, but the sad thing is I wouldn't have expected it to be a serious issue in our field as well. That was a big shock to me.

    I'm not really sure what to do about it, but I do think talking about it more and really recognizing the degree to which it's occurring is a vital first step. It's a complex problem in our field because the nature of dual relationships can often prevent victims from reporting it or speaking out.
     
  40. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Board Certified Neuropsychologist
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    The instructor/student thing at the adult level is always a murky grey area. At what point does it become an actionable offense? IME I only witnessed one faculty grad student relationship (in a different psych department) and one grad student/undergrad relationship. The grad student/undergrad one began shortly after the class ended, and the grad student eventually married her student. So, I guess it turned out alright. This goes back to a little bit of the "some things aren't my business" thoughts. In these instances, it was hard to see any overt abuse, although it's not to say some kind of power dynamic wasn't at play in either setting.
     
  41. Jon Snow

    Jon Snow Senior Member
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    Hi there. It is not at all uncommon for undergrads and grad students to hit on professors, male or female. Note, I think at sites like rate my professor, there's a hotness rating. I have heard college students openly discussing how to get professors interested in them, romantically. I do agree though that people do often mis-interpret smiles and being pleasant.

    In my own professional environment, like Mike Parent, I don't think I've ever had a student hit on me, openly. I am friendly, but professional.

    There is such a thing as emotional intelligence. Abilities vary. Theory of mind varies. Mental illnesses that result in distortions of perception exist and are relatively common.

    I think we need to learn how to treat each other with more respect in general.

    This is not a problem that is restricted to men. It is humanity. I think it's pretty common to hear sexual comments from men and women. This has been my experience from basically high school to present.

    I think understanding people is a difficult thing. It makes psychology an interesting field.

    It would be nice not to frame this issue as toxic masculinity and, rather, let's frame it as one in which all of us work together to change cultural norms to a more safe and comfortable state. Consider that these issues also exist in LGBT communities.
     
    #90 Jon Snow, Nov 16, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017
  42. Jon Snow

    Jon Snow Senior Member
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    That's horrible. I am sorry you went through that.

    If you don't feel comfortable answering, I understand, I am curious how that happened so many times. Do you think this person knew what they were doing? Could they have somehow distorted the situation in such a manner as they believed they had consent? Obviously, your academic advisor is in a power position and was engaging in unethical behavior regardless of consent. That's a given. How did they compel you to keep coming back? What could someone have noticed that would have triggered them to help? What do we look for as "witnesses" to intervene and prevent this sort of thing? How would you have wanted someone to intervene?
     
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  43. Jon Snow

    Jon Snow Senior Member
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    Interesting.

    I think one must consider individual cases.

    Also, psychology is about 80% women these days. Thus, in terms of power differential, at least in our field, men are often not in the power role. I have had multiple women supervisors and directors in my career. I think gender and sex roles/interactions are pretty complicated. And, I'm not sure there is a straight forward answer to this.

    We also are not a unitary culture. In my university, there are a lot of cultures in play. Do my male colleagues interact differently with me? Many do. Relationships are dynamic. Some people I work with were friends before I worked with them. Some have become friends after. Some people come from backgrounds that are quite different, less reserved. I have a physician colleague, whose dad is a construction worker and his sense of humor is rather crass. He makes off color jokes. He does this with both men and women, though they're substantially worse with men. He's a nice person. He doesn't want to hurt anyone. I have warned him to be careful. He is at risk in the modern dynamic, in my opinion, because the tolerance for his background is low.

    Think about age. I think messaging needs to be simple. We should be cautious about language and jargon obfuscating intent and the basic message of respecting others. For example in my opinion using terms like CIS gendered and white priv for that matter casually is unwise. You will lose the average person you are trying to reach and become an echochamber.
     
  44. msgeorgeeliot

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    Thank you Jon Snow, MamaPhD, and others for your compassion. Jon Snow, you ask important questions and I would like to think a bit before responding. I will probably do that tomorrow. So this is just to let you know my intent and appreciation that you thoughtfully asked some difficult questions.
     
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  45. MCParent

    Faculty Bronze Donor Classifieds Approved 5+ Year Member

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    NOT to blame the victims at all, but it would be nice to see one tv/movie portrayal of a professor, grad student, or therapist who WASN’T sleeping with a student/patient. I seriously can’t think of any. Except I think maybe Frazier and Niles never did.
     
  46. Jon Snow

    Jon Snow Senior Member
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    At the risk of exposing my bad tv related media consumption:

    Lethal Weapon (tv show)
    Silence of the lambs :)
    Good will hunting? (Not sure I remember)
    Star Trek the next generation
    Lie to me
     
  47. Ollie123

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    Thought about this issue too.

    Even when its portrayed as being wrong (and sadly, it often isn't), I wonder how much the frequency of these portrayals contribute to normalizing that behavior. Much along the lines of the violence exposure research.

    I'm too close to one of these incidents to feel comfortable joining the discussion here. Suffice it to say, I know multiple people involved/impacted.
     
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  48. PSYDR

    PSYDR Psychologist
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    @msgeorgeeliot ,

    Please notify law enforcement. Seek psychotherapy.
     
  49. msgeorgeeliot

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    I appreciate what is undoubtedly your good intent in offering unsolicited advice. I will not use the dreaded M-word in responding to you. I am also a psychologist, and a very good one. Do not condescend to me by telling me what to do.
     
  50. PSYDR

    PSYDR Psychologist
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    That's a tautological phrase.

    But I will if you will.
     
  51. msgeorgeeliot

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    I respect you PSYDR for your contributions to this community. However. You are being cruel and snide for absolutely no reason. Does it sting that I point out that your rudimentary, paternalistic, unsolicited advice is not particularly useful to me? (Perhaps because, IF YOU HAD ASKED ME, I would have assured you that I did both things 20 years ago when this happened, and continue to participate in psychotherapy when indicated.)

    I actively manage my health, and my experience of complex PTSD is a part of that. i had been mostly symptom-free before this wave of collective, public suffering of women all over the world. I like how Sarah Silverman put it -- it's like extracting a tumor: good in the long run, painful for now.

    I am in terrible pain this week and do not appreciate your tone. Seriously, what gives you the right to talk to me that way?

    Also. I imagine you and/or your people are secretly wondering, OH MY GOD THIS DAMAGED WOMAN IS PROBABLY DOING VOODOO THERAPY WITH HER EQUALLY TROUBLED PATIENTS. (Am I close?)

    In order to be able to serve all my patients with excellence -- including rape victims who are self-identifying to a greater degree and are currently dominating my caseload -- I provide only evidence-based treatment. I do not use patients to do my own work.

    Maybe you'll lay your head on your pillow tonight feeling smug and proud at putting me in my intellectual place in your initial snide reply. If so, I suggest that you read this entire thread over again.

    Really. How DARE you.
     

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