psychiatry

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

BlueFoxAZ

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2008
Messages
44
Reaction score
0
Hi!

I'm interested in the field of psychiatry and was wondering if anyone has any suggestions about how I can expose myself to

the field? I'm pretty sure I couldn't shadow a psychiatrist (confidentiality issues) but is there anything else I can do? Should I

try to volunteer at a hospital with a psych ward or is there something else I could be doing?

Thanks in advance!

Members don't see this ad.
 
Last edited:
Members don't see this ad :)
Dr. Richard Selzer, professor of writing and professor of surgery at Yale, referrred to psychiatrists as "The nuns of the medical profession." Of course, Dr. Selzer, was a surgeon, which colored his perspective about doctors who don't get their hands bloody.
 
LOL! :laugh:

seriously though, any ideas that don't involve me going insane? or would I be better served applying to do research? I still haven't taken any pre-reqs because I'm going to do a post-bacc later so ideally I'd like to do something that 1) involved exposure to psychiatry and 2) would help me get into a post-bacc.
 
If you haven't already, take some introductory courses in psychology. And at least at my university, it isn't too challenging to get a spot in a psych research lab.
 
If you haven't already, take some introductory courses in psychology. And at least at my university, it isn't too challenging to get a spot in a psych research lab.
psych research is often cognitive, which has little to do with psychiatry imo
 
it's probably really depressing to always be treating people with depression and schizo and stuff.
 
A few of my friends who were interested in Clinical Psych managed to volunteer on the Psych ward at a hospital in New York City. Maybe you could do something like that? As far as I know, they sat in on group sessions, and did things like that. Maybe you could try something like that?
 
A few of my friends who were interested in Clinical Psych managed to volunteer on the Psych ward at a hospital in New York City. Maybe you could do something like that? As far as I know, they sat in on group sessions, and did things like that. Maybe you could try something like that?

that would be sweet!! did they apply to do that or was it more of a volunteer thing?
 
that would be sweet!! did they apply to do that or was it more of a volunteer thing?

They volunteered. They had to commit to a certain number of hours/week and general time frame, just so the department knew they weren't going to flake, but it wasn't a formalized application process (as far as I know). So, ask around!
 
It's kinda hard to find a doctor to shadow with this stuff.

I was aggressive and emailed A LOT of psychiatrists at a teaching hospital. The end result was one psychiatrist willing to let me sit in.

It was an interesting experience in that I knew a little more of the process. But, I have to say, you will be put outside for the private cases, which means you only see the boring ones (at least, I only saw the boring ones).

PS. If you want to see crazyish people, go to the ER. Most aren't diagnosed yet, but at least you see some crazy people.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I'm interested in psychiatry as well. Getting to shadow a psychiatrist is borderline impossibile unless you have a family friend. My friend got the opportunity on the condition that he would be kicked out if a patient wanted him to leave at any time (only happened once). You can get somewhat of a feel reading the psychiatry boards here though.

So far what I've done is psychology major, psychology research (agreed, not very related to psychiatry, but still interesting), and volunteer at a psychiatric hospital. I originally tried to work as a psychiatric aide, but that fell through due to being required to commit a continuous year of work. I tried to volunteer as a psychiatric aide, but that fell through due to liability issues. My volunteer experience in the hospital was great though. I worked with the occupational therapy department, primarily with youths and adolescents, but got some exposure to the adult patients too - tons of hands on experience. Still didn't really get to see too much of what the psychiatrists actually did though, aside from seeing them here and there around the hospital.
 
I have had significant exposure to psychiatry--from different angles.

The scary thing is--as another individual posted--is to "go nuts."

Seriously, though, from what I understand, it is one of the least competitive residencies. So, if you're really interested, and you have a competitive application, then you shouldn't have a problem when the time comes.

As far as curriculum, I took the following courses (simply out of curiosity):

Introductory Psychology
Sensation and Perception
Physiological Psychology
Developmental Psychology
Abnormal Psychology

The following movies are interesting:
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
Sybil

The following books are interesting:
The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat (or anything by Oliver Sacks)
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
DSM
The book on bipolar disorder by Kay Redfield Jamison

Type in these titles and see what else comes up on Amazon. People have probably compiled title lists to form a psych corpus *must have*.

There are others.

In practice, it seems to me that practicing psychiatrists do little else besides writing scripts for mood stabilizers, SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics (anti-psychotics), anxiolytics, etc.

You can certainly volunteer to be a guinea pig in research projects (for money even!), but I don't know that this would necessarily help you understand the field better.

In today's world, the most effective treatments seem to circle around a combinations of cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT) and drug therapy. I would research these topics (and books surrounding them, Beck, et al.) if you were seriously interested.

Best of luck!
 
You could consider neuroscience research rather than psychology research. It wouldn't really matter but neuroscience is generally more biological which may be more helpful in the long run (understanding neurotransmitters and neuroanatomy is probably more helpful for a future psychiatrist). But really, I'd just focus on getting into med school however you can, rather than worrying about doing things directly related to psych.
 
I have had significant exposure to psychiatry--from different angles.

The scary thing is--as another individual posted--is to "go nuts."

Seriously, though, from what I understand, it is one of the least competitive residencies. So, if you're really interested, and you have a competitive application, then you shouldn't have a problem when the time comes.

As far as curriculum, I took the following courses (simply out of curiosity):

Introductory Psychology
Sensation and Perception
Physiological Psychology
Developmental Psychology
Abnormal Psychology

The following movies are interesting:
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
Sybil

The following books are interesting:
The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat (or anything by Oliver Sacks)
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
DSM
The book on bipolar disorder by Kay Redfield Jamison

Type in these titles and see what else comes up on Amazon. People have probably compiled title lists to form a psych corpus *must have*.

There are others.

In practice, it seems to me that practicing psychiatrists do little else besides writing scripts for mood stabilizers, SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics (anti-psychotics), anxiolytics, etc.

You can certainly volunteer to be a guinea pig in research projects (for money even!), but I don't know that this would necessarily help you understand the field better.

In today's world, the most effective treatments seem to circle around a combinations of cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT) and drug therapy. I would research these topics (and books surrounding them, Beck, et al.) if you were seriously interested.

Best of luck!
GREAT book. you also get kind of an old school physician's perspective that pokes through here and there
 
Hi!

I'm interested in the field of psychiatry and was wondering if anyone has any suggestions about how I can expose myself to

the field? I'm pretty sure I couldn't shadow a psychiatrist (confidentiality issues) but is there anything else I can do? Should I

try to volunteer at a hospital with a psych ward or is there something else I could be doing?

Thanks in advance!

I'm applying for my psychiatry residency as we speak, so feel free to PM me.

1.You can volunteer in a psychiatric ward. I've seen pre-meds do this.
2.Substance abuse centers often will take volunteers, and this can actually be quite fun for volunteers.
3.Psychology/Psychiatry research would help your CV.
4.Sometimes services like Child Protective Services will take volunteers - allows you to see diseases you may treat from the inside...
5.Women's health center volunteer - help patients with abuse hx, anorexia, bulimia, etc.

Psychiatry really is a fun and diverse field. It is moving away from the stigma it once had. Fellowships involve child, substance abuse, sleep medicine, forensics, consultation-laison, psychotherapy, interventional pain management.

The field has a great lifestyle and pays fairly well compared to many primary care fields and there is a HUGE need right now.
 
I'd also note that the psychiatry pay scales are among the lowest for M.D.s. This explains the competitiveness of the field. Most people don't want to go through the hellishness of four years of med school and four years of residency just to be filling out scripts for "crazies" all day long.

At least where I'm from, one can practice talk therapy and even prescribe Prozac and such as an LSW, Psy D., or with a Master's in Psych (I think).

Just some more thoughts.
 
Kinsey (the movie)
Sexual Development in the Human Male (book)
Sexual Development in the Human Female (book)

and

Masters and Johnson

are also great resources.

I also took a Neuroscience class, but it really focused on anatomy, physiology and neurology, not pathopsychology per se.

And, as I stated previously, these really focus on the outliers. I believe that as a practicing psychiatrist, unless you were specialized and particularly reknowned, that you would be writing scripts (see above posts) all day long.

Food for thought.
 
I'd also note that the psychiatry pay scales are among the lowest for M.D.s. This explains the competitiveness of the field. Most people don't want to go through the hellishness of four years of med school and four years of residency just to be filling out scripts for "crazies" all day long.

At least where I'm from, one can practice talk therapy and even prescribe Prozac and such as an LSW, Psy D., or with a Master's in Psych (I think).

Just some more thoughts.

It's true that you can spend a lot of time specializing, and end up with a salary barely higher than primary care. Child psych can be a lucrative field, but it's got its own set of problems.
 
Thanks for the all the replies!!! I appreciate it :)

And, as I stated previously, these really focus on the outliers. I believe that as a practicing psychiatrist, unless you were specialized and particularly renowned, that you would be writing scripts (see above posts) all day long.

Food for thought.

That's no fun :( is that really all they do all day? i wish i knew a psychiatrist so i could ask about this kind of thing.
 
Edit: I rambled about pointless things.

I guess my advice would be it wouldn't be the most prudent thing to pursue medical school if you're not interested in it at all other than psychiatry because you may come to realize that what pyschiatrists do isn't really for you either. Although I believe I might get a lot of fulfillment out of some aspects of psychiatry, there are certainly other aspects to medicine that are appealing to me. However, whopper (one of the attendings/fellowship students on the psych boards) would probably disagree with this opinion. He wanted psych and disliked med school from the start and seems to be happy with his decision.
 
Last edited:
Well, this is getting a bit revealing, but my name is anonymous, so I suppose I can leak a little. Is that what they do all day? I really don't know--I can only speak from experience.

If a psychiatrist was working in a psych hospital, then you would probably be overseeing many patients--it might be more interesting than that.

In your standard outpatient setting--I don't think that the insurance companies want to pay for a psychiatrist.

So, psychologists and social workers perform day to day talk therapy on an outpatient basis, and then they get referrals from these individuals to prescribe psych meds: SSRIs, SNRIs, anxiolytics, neuroleptics, mood stabilizers, etc. So, in an outpatient setting, they get the referral, confirm the DSM differential diagnosis, and write the script. Then the patient gets sent back to the psychologist/social worker for talk therapy and other outpatient group therapies as necessary.

I did see a shrink (a little spillage here), for months, and the best I got out of him was Prozac. After seeing a number of practicing psych clinicians, I would actually say that few are even practicing the latest and greatest in cognitive-behavioral techniques. Which, if you read JAMA or the NEJM, is quite in vogue. The most effective treatments for Major Depressive Disorder, and some other psychological afflictions, based on double-blinded, randomized controlled trials, were a combination of CBT and pharmocological therapy (SSRIs or SNRIs).

Got me on a soapbox here.
 
You want interesting? I think that what this world needs is more sex therapists.
 
It is possible to shadow in psychiatry. Not the one-on-one sessions with a psychiatrist, but in a psychiatry ward in a hospital. I had a friend who did it, although apparently it was kind of scary because during the shadowing a patient attacked a psychiatrist and beat the **** out of him and broke some bones in his face.
 
It is possible to shadow in psychiatry. Not the one-on-one sessions with a psychiatrist, but in a psychiatry ward in a hospital. I had a friend who did it, although apparently it was kind of scary because during the shadowing a patient attacked a psychiatrist and beat the **** out of him and broke some bones in his face.

good god! :scared: i wonder if that happens frequently...? maybe i should rethink this field!
 
It's kinda hard to find a doctor to shadow with this stuff.

I was aggressive and emailed A LOT of psychiatrists at a teaching hospital. The end result was one psychiatrist willing to let me sit in.

This is what you have to do. Just call lots of places. The cases you see might not be super exciting, but you should definitely try!

I second volunteering in the ER. You will see a lot of different types of people and will probably see undiagnosed cases of many different things. Plus it's a good idea to get some general medically relevant volunteer experience.
 
good god! :scared: i wonder if that happens frequently...? maybe i should rethink this field!

Well, psychiatry should be more dangerous than a field like pediatrics, because you are dealing with people who may not be thinking rationally or who can be overly aggressive or disagreeable. The case I mentioned is just one incident, so no need to have second thoughts based on just one anecdote.
 
I don't think there have been any studies that have shown those with psychiatric diagnoses have any significantly higher a rate of violence than those without psychiatric diagnoses. The only predictors of future violence (to my knowledge) with any statistical validity are past acts of violence or expressed intent to commit violent acts. At any rate, a psychiatrist shouldn't put him/herself in a one on one in a hospital away from any psychiatric aides or other staff that could intervene in the case of something happening.
 
good god! :scared: i wonder if that happens frequently...? maybe i should rethink this field!

Please don't take what you get here about Psychiatry as a career without considering that MOST of these people have never had any kind of first-hand experience in the field.
 
Well, psychiatry should be more dangerous than a field like pediatrics, because you are dealing with people who may not be thinking rationally or who can be overly aggressive or disagreeable. The case I mentioned is just one incident, so no need to have second thoughts based on just one anecdote.

Well, if you are a ped doc, you are dealing with shorties who do not think rationally, some of whom are disagreeable. Alot of the shorties are aggressive and disagreeable, and will blame their moms for their troubles, later in life, even though they are taller than their moms ultimately. So you cannot blame all of this on heighth. It has to do with being a shorty in many cases.
 
Well, if you are a ped doc, you are dealing with shorties who do not think rationally, some of whom are disagreeable. Alot of the shorties are aggressive and disagreeable, and will blame their moms for their troubles, later in life, even though they are taller than their moms ultimately. So you cannot blame all of this on heighth. It has to do with being a shorty in many cases.

Little kids are much less dangerous than adults, believe me. I know it's pretty dangerous to approach a kicking and screaming tot with a needle but they're not very strong and you'd be able to fend off one easily.
 
Then sports medicine should be the most dangerous field :p
 
At least psych disorders aren't contagious. :thumbup:
 
I wouldn't worry too much about violence. Restraints, demerol, magnetic locks on the doors, lack of dangerous instruments, and large, numerous orderlies tend to take care of things like that. I think that I would be live more of closeted life, and be more fearful about violence if I was an abortion doctor.

I also think that suicidal tendencies are much more common than homicidal ones.
 
I think that I would be live more of closeted life, and be more fearful about violence if I was an abortion doctor.

That leads me to wonder, how does someone get trained to be an abortion doctor? I never see any fellowships or anything that teach how to do abortions, not like it's something that people seek to be anyways.
 
Yups,

I second the OB/GYN answer. If you want a good account of it, then read "White Coat." It's an autobiography of a Harvard Pre-Med student and she explains her gyn rotation in an abortion *ahem* "family planning" *ahem* "planned parenthood" clinic.

This is off topic, but it's a great book for any aspiring physician.
 
I volunteer at a Crisis/Suicide hotline answering phones. I'm not sure if there is one in your area, but there are tons of psych majors that I volunteer with. Plus the training you have to take is reallly intersting. You will get some crazy calls and great stories for your PS or interview questions.
 
I work at a Mental Health and Mental ******ation center.

My job is to work in group homes of adults diagnosed with mental ******ation, but most of them are all dual diagnosed. We have schizos, ocd, seizures, intermittent explosive disorder, etc.

It's super rewarding, even though I've been attacked a few times. Nothing too bad. One girl will just tear the house apart if you make her mad. I love it! (Not the house being torn apart...)

I might also really like it just because I'm so fascinated with psychiatric disorders and what not.
 
I don't think there have been any studies that have shown those with psychiatric diagnoses have any significantly higher a rate of violence than those without psychiatric diagnoses. The only predictors of future violence (to my knowledge) with any statistical validity are past acts of violence or expressed intent to commit violent acts. At any rate, a psychiatrist shouldn't put him/herself in a one on one in a hospital away from any psychiatric aides or other staff that could intervene in the case of something happening.


I'm guessing you haven't worked in psychiatry yet. Pts with some disorders are much more likely to attack someone, although it's primarily when they are unmedicated, but the point still stands. Psych patients are inherently more dangerous than your standard patients.

OP, I would say try research in Psychiatry as well. I've been doing it for quite some time and you will learn a lot about the field and gain a good insight into different treatments and your possible future patients.
 
Spent the past summer in an inpatient/outpatient psych hospital that operates with a goal of very low level of restraint use, but a population with a high incidence of conduct disorder and schizophrenia, and was incident free during my time there. Could you post a study?

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1525086

This one of the stronger ones I can find in support of there being a correlation. The correlation is still much more strongly tied to socioeconomic factors and substance abuse than to mental illness. There's more to the patients than their mental illness. If you were to sequester a night's worth of emergency room patients in a psychiatric hospital setting for an extended time, I believe you would see a similar level of violence.
 
Spent the past summer in an inpatient/outpatient psych hospital that operates with a goal of very low level of restraint use, but a population with a high incidence of conduct disorder and schizophrenia, and was incident free during my time there. Could you post a study?

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1525086

This one of the stronger ones I can find in support of there being a correlation. The correlation is still much more strongly tied to socioeconomic factors and substance abuse than to mental illness. There's more to the patients than their mental illness. If you were to sequester a night's worth of emergency room patients in a psychiatric hospital setting for an extended time, I believe you would see a similar level of violence.

While I agree with you that there are other factors that also play a role in violence, my point was that mentally ill patients are in a higher risk category.

Btw, chemical dependence such as alcoholism is classified as a mental illness in my lab.

Here is another quick read for you, it supports what you are saying as well as what I am saying. I think you're taking what I'm saying to mean that the mentally ill are going to just start bashing people, but I'm not saying that at all, I'm simply saying that they are at a higher risk category, especially when unmedicated.

http://priory.com/psych/violence.htm


t is universally agreed that majority of the mentally ill who are receiving appropriate treatment, do not carry more risk for violence than general population...

The key here is "receiving appropriate treatment."
 
That was an interesting study, particularly the part about thought insertion and mind reading being correlated with violence. Thanks. I'd like to see a data for a 'control' group of middle class outpatients with no history of substance abuse, but I realize that's a hard sample to find and an inappropriate measure in its own ways. I also think we're pretty much in agreement, and I may have understated the risk of violence in the psychiatric setting earlier - whether it's due exclusively to mental illness or not, it's still present.
 
Psychiatry can be as creative and dynamic as any other field of medicine -- it depends on the imagination and motivation of the practitioner.
 
I apologize. I said Demerol earlier. I meant *thorazine* a/k/a chemical restraint. My bad. Please forgive me.
 
I'd also note that the psychiatry pay scales are among the lowest for M.D.s. This explains the competitiveness of the field. Most people don't want to go through the hellishness of four years of med school and four years of residency just to be filling out scripts for "crazies" all day long.

At least where I'm from, one can practice talk therapy and even prescribe Prozac and such as an LSW, Psy D., or with a Master's in Psych (I think).

Just some more thoughts.

The residents at my medical school (not a top 25 program for psych) are getting offers straight out of residency for $180,000 and up with full benefits.

A friend of mine who just finished a child psych program took a job starting at $300,000 + benefits.

Psych definitely isn't cardiology, but not the lowest payed anymore either.
 
The residents at my medical school (not a top 25 program for psych) are getting offers straight out of residency for $180,000 and up with full benefits.

A friend of mine who just finished a child psych program took a job starting at $300,000 + benefits.

Psych definitely isn't cardiology, but not the lowest payed anymore either.

How does someone who subspecializes in pediatrics make almost twice as much as their regular counterparts?
 
Top