Psychological Associate with Independent Practice (Master's degree)

[memyselfI13]

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Hi, I am a neuropsychologist in Texas and am noticing quite a few psychological associates administering and interpreting neuropsychological testing (and being compensated by the insurance companies) under the designation. "Psychological Associate with Independent Practice". They are even using the ADOS. Is this occurring elsewhere?

 

[bookwormpsych]

Hi! I’m a Master’s level (almost - just passed EPPP like 2 days ago) clinician in Texas. I’m not sure how other states do it, but I do know here in Texas you can get licensed as a Licensed Psychological Associate and pursue independent practice. Here we have to get X amount of hours of supervision to be considered “independent,” though. Something like 3000+ hours. This license here is considered to be a clinical license, with more emphasis on assessment rather than counseling (versus a Licensed Professional Counselor). Now, I’ve never seen someone claim the “independent” part as a separate designation on their licensure. But, I am also new to/just entering the world of licensure.

 

[BuckeyeLove]

I know Arkansas had this for years but scrapped it 6ish years ago (people already with it got grandfathered in still). It was honestly one of the few times I've seen psychologists get protective of turf and succeed.

 

[WisNeuro]

It occasionally happens here, but it's not allowed under our state statutes. Luckily we have a lot of great boarded neuropsychs who have no problem bringing this issue up to the board when it happens. If you get an old report from one of these undertrained midlevels, and notice errors and misinterpretations, make a board complaint explaining the possible harm to the patient.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Hi, I am a neuropsychologist in Texas and am noticing quite a few psychological associates administering and interpreting neuropsychological testing (and being compensated by the insurance companies) under the designation. "Psychological Associate with Independent Practice". They are even using the ADOS. Is this occurring elsewhere?

Unfortunately, Texas really wants to let loose the 'wild wild west' of assessment practice.

 

[bcliff]

Also in TX...

After Court Ruling, Texas Plans to Change How it Defines "Psychologist"

A three-judge panel ruled earlier this year that the state's definition of "psychologist" violates the First Amendment. Now, officials are working to come up with a new definition that they hope will still prove valuable to potential patients.

www.texastribune.org

 

[deleted343839]

Also in TX...

After Court Ruling, Texas Plans to Change How it Defines "Psychologist"

A three-judge panel ruled earlier this year that the state's definition of "psychologist" violates the First Amendment. Now, officials are working to come up with a new definition that they hope will still prove valuable to potential patients.

www.texastribune.org

That was 3 years ago and the board ultimately resolved the definition issue.

 

[psych.meout]

Also in TX...

After Court Ruling, Texas Plans to Change How it Defines "Psychologist"

A three-judge panel ruled earlier this year that the state's definition of "psychologist" violates the First Amendment. Now, officials are working to come up with a new definition that they hope will still prove valuable to potential patients.

www.texastribune.org

I remember that case. It's so absurd.

 

[WisNeuro]

I remember that case. It's so absurd.

Not so absurd, it was a lawyer. Lots of lawyers are just ****ty people who do ****ty things because they can.

 

[psych.meout]

Not so absurd, it was a lawyer. Lots of lawyers are just ****ty people who do ****ty things because they can.

Right, but my point was that the arguments being made by that s***head of a lawyer and which were accepted by the appeals court are absurd.

"The ability to provide guidance about the common problems of life – marriage, children, alcohol, health – is a foundation of human interaction and society, whether this advice be found in an almanac, at the feet of grandparents, or in a circle of friends," the three-judge panel wrote. "There is no doubt that such speech is protected by the First Amendment."

That "psychologist" is a protected title has no bearing on lay helpers, nor does it infringe on the 1st Amendment.

Moreover, this case has nothing to do with the 1st Amendment. Instead, Serafine wants to be able to practice psychology without having a degree in psychology (her PhD is in education) or the education and training in a licensable field. She wasn't just advocating for her to be able to use the title as part of her political campaign. She wants the state to switch from the licensure standard, which she would never meet, to a certification one, so she could do whatever she wants with impunity.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/01/12/political-candidate-with-psychology-training-and-experience-may-call-herself-psychologist-even-if-she-isnt-a-licensed-psychologist-and-has-no-psychology-phd/

Although she does not have a degree in psychology, she completed a four-year post-doctoral fellowship in psychology at Yale, and the dissertation for her Ph.D. in education was published in Genetic Psychology Monographs. Serafine was a professor in the psychology departments at Yale University and Vassar College, where she taught a variety of psychology courses. She has studied under leading psychologists and was a member of the American Psychological Association for several years.

She is not licensed to practice as a psychologist in Texas, nor could she be, because she does not hold a doctorate from a qualifying program. Before running for office, Serafine taught seminars and provided one-on-one counseling sessions on personal growth and relationships in Austin. She is a lawyer with a degree from Yale Law School.

 

[WisNeuro]

Right, but my point was that the arguments being made by that s***head of a lawyer and which were accepted by the appeals court are absurd.

What the court will accept very often has little to do with empiricism or science. If this is a maddening thought, I'd strongly advise against any forensic/IME work in the future.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I'd never practice in TX knowing what I know now...too many issues with weakened legislation and junk reimbursements.

 

[bookwormpsych]

Hi, I am a neuropsychologist in Texas and am noticing quite a few psychological associates administering and interpreting neuropsychological testing (and being compensated by the insurance companies) under the designation. "Psychological Associate with Independent Practice". They are even using the ADOS. Is this occurring elsewhere?

also I made a turd of myself not realizing you said you’re in Texas. My apologies for my previous reply!

 

[GradStudent2020]

Hi, I am a neuropsychologist in Texas and am noticing quite a few psychological associates administering and interpreting neuropsychological testing (and being compensated by the insurance companies) under the designation. "Psychological Associate with Independent Practice". They are even using the ADOS. Is this occurring elsewhere?

I’ve had a LPA in Texas since 2010, and they changed that licensure to “independent practice” in January 2018 (I think). I was grandfathered in to independent practice.

You can find out more about LPA’s in the TSBEP site or TAPA site.

The ADOS is not a neuropsychological assessment. Administration of the ADOS is not limited to our field, much less only doctoral level providers. You can learn more about training requirements for the ADOS on the WPS and Pearson websites. Cathy Lord often talks about this in her trainings and webinars.

 

[WisNeuro]

Indeed, it is not relegated to PhD level providers, only a C level qual. But it is a neuropsychological instrument.

 

[GradStudent2020]

Indeed, it is not relegated to PhD level providers, only a C level qual. But it is a neuropsychological instrument.

I realize the retailers put it in that shopping category, but it can be administered by Occupational Therapists. I have not seen the people that developed the ADOS refer to it that way. Retailers consider adaptive rating scales (ABAS, Vineland) to be “neuropsychological” instruments.

I guess you could argue it is a neuropsychological instrument, if you really needed to find something to argue about.

 

[WisNeuro]

I guess you could argue it is a neuropsychological instrument, if you really needed to find something to argue about.

We're scientists, we're always looking for things to argue about.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Mod Note: Hey all, let's try to stay on topic; some prior posts were deleted to help keep the thread from getting derailed.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Indeed, it is not relegated to PhD level providers, only a C level qual. But it is a neuropsychological instrument.

How are you conceptualizing the ADOS as a neuropsych instrument? I've done a lot of ASD assessment, but I wouldn't have thought of the ADOS as neuropsych.

 

[WisNeuro]

How are you conceptualizing the ADOS as a neuropsych instrument? I've done a lot of ASD assessment, but I wouldn't have thought of the ADOS as neuropsych.

Looking at a broad view here. Neuropsychological instruments are those that are used to measure some sort of psychological variable linked to a proposed or known neural location or pathway. These can be formal cognitive tests, and even behavioral observations. Usually this means that they exist in the context of a larger evaluation of multiple variables to fully assess the behavior in question. The ADOS would definitely fit within this framework.

 

[Siyu]

Hi! I’m a Master’s level (almost - just passed EPPP like 2 days ago) clinician in Texas. I’m not sure how other states do it, but I do know here in Texas you can get licensed as a Licensed Psychological Associate and pursue independent practice. Here we have to get X amount of hours of supervision to be considered “independent,” though. Something like 3000+ hours. This license here is considered to be a clinical license, with more emphasis on assessment rather than counseling (versus a Licensed Professional Counselor). Now, I’ve never seen someone claim the “independent” part as a separate designation on their licensure. But, I am also new to/just entering the world of licensure.

Hi, there! I do have a question. Before I pass the EPPP, all I wanted was to get licensed. Now since I have passed the EPPP, I am more confused about my career path. What should I do with my LPA? What is the average salary?

I know you are pursuing your PhD, I will be much appreciated if you can help me with those confusions.

 

[bookwormpsych]

Hi, there! I do have a question. Before I pass the EPPP, all I wanted was to get licensed. Now since I have passed the EPPP, I am more confused about my career path. What should I do with my LPA? What is the average salary?

I know you are pursuing your PhD, I will be much appreciated if you can help me with those confusions.

Honestly, I don't even know. Average salary is about commiserate with that of an LPC or any master's level provider anywhere. Of course, freshly-licensed and not independent vs independent and seasoned, there will be a difference. You can look up the purview of an LPA in the Texas law and that'll give you an idea of what you can/can't do. For example, I'm working in an inpatient facility, but have to be supervised to do anything. I also work with an independent psychologist in my community administering and scoring his assessments, but i do not interpret them, and he supervises me. I also administer things I've been trained on, or am seeking training on, and I don't do projectives. Doing this job, I can make goooood money, but no benefits or whatever. But, at the hospital, I make crap money, with great benefits. It's pretty variable. Also, where I live is crap compared to places like DFW, Houston, San Antonio, Austin, etc.

To be honest, the only reason I sought out this license was to just pass the EPPP. I knew I was going for doctoral training and just wanted it out of the way. I just went ahead and finished the licensing process, though, in case that falls through and I needed something going on for in between application cycles. I'm sorry I'm not much more help!

And CONGRATS on passing the EPPP!!!