PsyD at Alliant International University (LA)

[figuringout]

Hey guys! I have recently applied to Alliant uni to their PsyD clinical psych program. I saw so many negative reviews about the school and the program in general. I am looking for current or previous students who have graduated from this school to guide me and tell me about their experience. Thank you!

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[WisNeuro]

You're going to get the usual with this one, it's expensive, historically poor match rates, most of us outside of CA won't seriously consider the apps for internship/postdoc, yadda, yadda, yadda.

 

[Temperance]

I suggest searching the forums for "Alliant" and reading the numerous threads about this campus. What questions are you hoping that current and former students can answer for you? While hearing from them can be valuable for determining quality of life during the program, what matters more are the opinions of employers. Many of those employers post here about their experiences with graduates from Alliant's campuses.

What interested you in the Los Angeles Psy.D. program specifically?

 

[figuringout]

You're going to get the usual with this one, it's expensive, historically poor match rates, most of us outside of CA won't seriously consider the apps for internship/postdoc, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Yes, that's exactly what I have heard. I know it is expensive, just like any other doctorate degree. For me, it's about the knowledge and training. I am okay with paying back my loans. I am more concerned about having a job in this field.

 

[WisNeuro]

Yes, that's exactly what I have heard. I know it is expensive, just like any other doctorate degree. For me, it's about the knowledge and training. I am okay with paying back my loans. I am more concerned about having a job in this field.

Not true, something like 1/3 of us graduate with 0 graduate school debt, another large chunk are <30k. Graduate education does not have to be expensive with many reputable programs being fully funded. And, as for the having a job aspect, if you only ever plan to stay in CA, probably ok, it has much looser standards than most.

 

[figuringout]

I suggest searching the forums for "Alliant" and reading the numerous threads about this campus. What questions are you hoping that current and former students can answer for you? While hearing from them can be valuable for determining quality of life during the program, what matters more are the opinions of employers. Many of those employers post here about their experiences with graduates from Alliant's campuses.

What interested you in the Los Angeles Psy.D. program specifically?

Oh I didn't know that. Thank you!
I think the former students can tell me about their experiences in finding internships/residency/jobs. It was kind of alarming to me that this school does not require the GRE, so I want to know if it really matters? Lastly, what I liked about the program was that it was a 4yr program and I had a choice on what kind of academic area I want to focus on. I chose LA because I'd like to live in LA in the future so I thought this was be a good place to start.

 

[figuringout]

Not true, something like 1/3 of us graduate with 0 graduate school debt, another large chunk are <30k. Graduate education does not have to be expensive with many reputable programs being fully funded. And, as for the having a job aspect, if you only ever plan to stay in CA, probably ok, it has much looser standards than most.

Is that true also for the psyd programs? like them being fully funded because I thought it was only for Phd programs. Also, I didn't understand what you meant by "has much looser standards than most." Are you referring to the school or the jobs in this field in CA?

 

[Temperance]

I am okay with paying back my loans.

Would it help if I wrote out the numbers? Given their tuition of $49,000 and $2,000 in fees, this turns out to $200,000 for the four-year program. If you did a 10-year repayment schedule, you would be paying $2,301 per month. If you did a 25-year repayment schedule, you would be paying $1,388 per month. This will cripple your ability to pay for a home, rent, vehicle, or children.

The program may tell you that you can always use Public Service Loan Forgiveness or income-based repayment programs. That's what they told me. Do not rely on these programs staying forever. A future presidential administration may decide to cut the programs to balance the budget, and you'd be up the creek when that happens. This thread also explains why relying on PSLF is not a good idea.

For some perspective: many years ago, I had also applied to the Psy.D. program at Los Angeles, believing that I could eventually pay back the $120,000 in loans (hoo boy has that tuition gone up over the years). I came across probably the same negative reviews that you did, except I decided that the reviews were enough to sway me against the program. What ended up being the most convincing argument was that I would have to fight an uphill battle constantly to prove that I was a competent professional, whereas someone from a fully-funded program would be assumed to be competent. It took a few years to build my application, but I am now at a program where I earn money for attending and where I don't have to pay tuition.

 

[PsyDuck90]

Oh I didn't know that. Thank you!
I think the former students can tell me about their experiences in finding internships/residency/jobs. It was kind of alarming to me that this school does not require the GRE, so I want to know if it really matters? Lastly, what I liked about the program was that it was a 4yr program and I had a choice on what kind of academic area I want to focus on. I chose LA because I'd like to live in LA in the future so I thought this was be a good place to start.

The data can tell you that. Based on their reported admissions data, their APA-accredited internship match rates are pretty abysmal and their overall licensure rate isn't great either. You can check out all the stats here: https://p.widencdn.net/e4oqlx/2017-LA-PsyD-C26D

 

[WisNeuro]

Is that true also for the psyd programs? like them being fully funded because I thought it was only for Phd programs. Also, I didn't understand what you meant by "has much looser standards than most." Are you referring to the school or the jobs in this field in CA?

A handful or so of teh reputable PsyDs are also fully funded. As for looser standards, the state of CA is pretty lax in general for training and licensure requirements compared to many states.

 

[figuringout]

Would it help if I wrote out the numbers? Given their tuition of $49,000 and $2,000 in fees, this turns out to $200,000 for the four-year program. If you did a 10-year repayment schedule, you would be paying $2,301 per month. If you did a 25-year repayment schedule, you would be paying $1,388 per month. This will cripple your ability to pay for a home, rent, vehicle, or children.

The program may tell you that you can always use Public Service Loan Forgiveness or income-based repayment programs. That's what they told me. Do not rely on these programs staying forever. A future presidential administration may decide to cut the programs to balance the budget, and you'd be up the creek when that happens. This thread also explains why relying on PSLF is not a good idea.

For some perspective: many years ago, I had also applied to the Psy.D. program at Los Angeles, believing that I could eventually pay back the $120,000 in loans (hoo boy has that tuition gone up over the years). I came across probably the same negative reviews that you did, except I decided that the reviews were enough to sway me against the program. What ended up being the most convincing argument was that I would have to fight an uphill battle constantly to prove that I was a competent professional, whereas someone from a fully-funded program would be assumed to be competent. It took a few years to build my application, but I am now at a program where I earn money for attending and where I don't have to pay tuition.

I understand what you are trying to say and I completely agree with you. However, it is hard to find a fully funded psyd program. I do not want to do PhD as I am more interested in clinical work. Do you mind me asking what degree are you pursuing now? Also, do you think getting a Masters first and then applying to these programs is helpful?

 

[WisNeuro]

I understand what you are trying to say and I completely agree with you. However, it is hard to find a fully funded psyd program. I do not want to do PhD as I am more interested in clinical work. Do you mind me asking what degree are you pursuing now? Also, do you think getting a Masters first and then applying to these programs is helpful?

Not hard to find, many dozens. Balanced PhDs and reputable PsyDs are technically the same. PhDs on average graduate, on average, with more clinical hours than PsyDs. PhD grads overwhelmingly work in primarily or solely clinical careers. The PhD = research, PsyD = clinical is a myth. Don't believe it as it will cost you dearly in most circumstances.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

I understand what you are trying to say and I completely agree with you. However, it is hard to find a fully funded psyd program. I do not want to do PhD as I am more interested in clinical work. Do you mind me asking what degree are you pursuing now? Also, do you think getting a Masters first and then applying to these programs is helpful?

The myth that PsyD programs in clinical psychology provide a more suitable (or superior) base of training to practice clinical psychology than PhD programs in clinical psychology is categorically false. Sure, there exists a subset of PhD programs that are more research focused but the majority of PhD programs are balanced between clinical/research and provide excellent clinical training. My experience over the years has been that those from PsyD programs generally exhibit more *variability* in terms of their clinical competence and acumen while those with the PhD have been more consistently clinically competent (less variability). The great majority of graduates from PhD programs in clinical psychology go on to full time practice (not academia). Many who do have academic careers also practice part-time.

 

[Temperance]

Do you mind me asking what degree are you pursuing now? Also, do you think getting a Masters first and then applying to these programs is helpful?

Scientist-practitioner Ph.D. program that balances research and clinical training. You can apply with a master's degree, but you do not have to. If you already have psychology coursework and decent GPA (3.5+), then you can get some research experience as a research assistant before applying to programs, and this is anecdotally what most people do.

If you can find the Insider's Guide to Graduate Programs in Clinical and Counseling Psychology by Norcross and Sayette, they have a listing of programs and what they self-report regarding the balance of training experiences and funding. There are funded Ph.D. programs that highly value clinical training; I do not remember too many of them off the top of my head because I was gunning for research-intensive programs, but they exist. In any case, research training is important to better understand how to approach your clinical work and also to evaluate what treatments work.

Another resource that might be helpful is Mitch's Uncensored Guide for Applying to Graduate School in Clinical Psychology.

 

[Tulsa]

Not true, something like 1/3 of us graduate with 0 graduate school debt, another large chunk are <30k. Graduate education does not have to be expensive with many reputable programs being fully funded. And, as for the having a job aspect, if you only ever plan to stay in CA, probably ok, it has much looser standards than most.

This. Funded PhDs end up with pretty manageable debt (70k average), while psyd grads are looking at an average of 200k+. Numbers cited are from the insider’s guide to graduate programs in clinical and counseling psychology (can purchase on amazon for $25ish).

Insider's Guide to Graduate Programs in Clinical and Counseling Psychology: 2020/2021 Edition (Insider's Guide To Graduate Programs In Clinical and Psychology) Amazon product

 

[psych.meout]

This. Funded PhDs end up with pretty manageable debt (70k average), while psyd grads are looking at an average of 200k+. Numbers cited are from the insider’s guide to graduate programs in clinical and counseling psychology (can purchase on amazon for $25ish).

Insider's Guide to Graduate Programs in Clinical and Counseling Psychology: 2020/2021 Edition (Insider's Guide To Graduate Programs In Clinical and Psychology) Amazon product

That's not correct.

Those numbers are for all PhD students in general, not specifically those from funded programs and they specifically mention this in the text.

There are unfunded PhD programs (e.g., Alliant, Nova) which likely skew the figures much higher, because they admit significantly more students than the average funded program (e.g., >25 vs <10).

 

[Tulsa]

That's not correct.

Those numbers are for all PhD students in general, not specifically those from funded programs and they specifically mention this in the text.

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There are unfunded PhD programs (e.g., Alliant, Nova) which likely skew the figures much higher, because they admit significantly more students than the average funded program (e.g., >25 vs <10).

Good point. Thanks for the addendum.

 

[msc545]

I understand what you are trying to say and I completely agree with you. However, it is hard to find a fully funded psyd program. I do not want to do PhD as I am more interested in clinical work. Do you mind me asking what degree are you pursuing now? Also, do you think getting a Masters first and then applying to these programs is helpful?

The PsyD = clinical and Ph.D = Research is propaganda by the purveyors of PsyD programs, who want to hide the fact that PsyD's do LESS work and spend LESS TIME in school than Ph.D.'s. A person with a Ph.D. has done more work, does more clinical work, and has a better education.