jesspt

10+ Year Member
Jan 31, 2008
1,120
403
Chicago, IL
Status
DPT / OTD
This is the perfect example of why health care is in more than a little mess - there is no free market, and therefore limited competition.
 

markelmarcel

7+ Year Member
Dec 17, 2009
1,109
79
Status
DPT / OTD
And we wonder why everyone gets all upset/worries about their potential future because why????

I'd like to see some positive PT news.
 

goyo1010

5+ Year Member
Oct 13, 2010
595
20
Houston
www.linkedin.com
Status
Physical Therapist
haha, true. Did you know the the predecessors of hopitals and early hospitals in the U.S. were originally meant for charity? Then with the rise of medical technology, professionalization, and medicalization in the 19th and 20th century, all that changed and hospitals tranisitioned into revenue producing insititutions. sad eh?
 
Oct 13, 2010
44
0
Status
Pre-Rehab Sci [General]
I just don't understand how providers are willing to cut PT funding but meanwhile have no problem with invasive (often unnecessary) ops, meds, etc to patients who need relief?! In the end it is all about money but really, what has the longer-term health benefits? Is the goal to have everyone eventually walking around like zombies from all the pills they are on? It's very sad that greed overcomes conscience in a lot of this.

I think a lot of it stems back to an earlier discussion: there needs to be more education on what PT entails and the importance behind it. I can't even count the number of people who assumed I was going for massage therapy when I told them I was going for a DPT!
 
Apr 21, 2010
45
0
Status
Rehab Sci Student
In the end it is all about money but really, what has the longer-term health benefits?
That's just it, if the health care system realized how much money they would save AND over the long term with physical therapy versus drugs and operations, I'm sure they would be fighting for us rather than against us.

I can't even count the number of people who assumed I was going for massage therapy when I told them I was going for a DPT!
My roommate just asked me the other day for a back rub and was like, "Oh, you don't do that?". Luckily that has only happened to me once though. It's still rediculous, nonetheless
 

lee9786

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Feb 3, 2009
616
9
Status
Pre-Rehab Sci [General]
That's just it, if the health care system realized how much money they would save AND over the long term with physical therapy versus drugs and operations, I'm sure they would be fighting for us rather than against us.
I wonder sometimes if the future of PT will be outside of the "healthcare system." The lack of public understanding, special interest influence of pharmacy and medicine in congress, lack of the APTA's presence in healthcare reform, and declining third-party reimbursement trends has me convinced. I'll also add the costly medical care needed for treatment of diseases associated with obesity such as diabetes and renal disease will suck up most of the resources. There may be some third-party reimbursement for post-surgical rehabilitation, but my thinking is anything pain related will not be covered.

PT will have to do a much better job marketing what it is. To have public perception thinking PT is on par with massage therapists, will result in people going to the lower cost provider. PTs will have to be able to demonstrate why they are Doctors of PT in the free market.

From what I've gathered, much of PT has got a free ride as it's been getting fed off of referrals from physicians. There has been no real need to market what PTs do. I think this model may be coming to an end though. Pretty soon the costs to obtain the DPT will far surpass what a PT can expect to earn, and the tuition costs will have to come back to reality. It will be good because PTs won't have to fill out mounds of paperwork for sake of filling them out. It won't be so good because the income potential of PTs will go down.

Anyone agree/disagree; why/why not?
 
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lee9786

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Feb 3, 2009
616
9
Status
Pre-Rehab Sci [General]
yes, but we live in a capitalist society.
I find it disturbing so many people have been throwing around the capitalist/socialist terms without an evident understanding of what they are talking about. Capitalism is talking about private ownership. Socialism is talking about government ownership. In our society, it's not either or but a mix depending on industry. The one I find amusing that no one talks about is Fascism (aka corporatism). Our healthcare system is a mix of socialism (Medicare/Medicaid) and fascism (private health insurance oligopoly.) Neither one is good for healthcare.

Medicare endorses process, not outcomes. A process for the sake of a process. For example making a DPT fill out fourteen pages of paperwork for a patient for the sake of filling them out. A government paid employee than overviews records to find out what is medically "necessary" even though they are miles away. Regulation of fraud and quality is in a building far away from where the treatment is being delivered. With 60 billion dollars of "estimated" fraud per year, it's clear what they are doing isn't only inefficient, but not working. To make everything like Medicare would be to make everything inefficient and ineffective. Beauracrats make medical decisions and determine quality not the healthcare professional and the patient.

Just in the past decade, there has been a substantial increase in the number of healthcare mergers. "Profits at 10 of the country’s largest publicly traded health insurance companies rose 428 percent from 2000 to 2007, while consumers paid more for less coverage." ( http://blog.aflcio.org/2009/05/27/health-insurance-profits-soar-as-industry-mergers-create-near-monopoly/ ) What they leave out here, is that more consolidation of the insurance means the increased ability to dictate payments to providers. Less payments to providers, less benefits for beneficiaries, and less competition to decrease premiums means all stakeholders except for the shareholders of the corporation benefit. So what we have is more money going into less hands. The providers and the patients lose.

So what is the solution? Many people working in the industry will say exactly what JessPT did. There is no free market. This is the number one issue facing this healthcare system. Costs are high because they are set my third-party payers, which ulimately is influenced by government intervention. For example private insurers look to Medicare as a guideline for what they will pay for PT services. Prices are set higher than what the free market would pay.

Whether we like it or not, healthcare could never be free and it will always be rationed one way or another. The reason it can't be free is because whether we like it or not, it takes resources to pay for the providers training as well as medical equipment. It will be paid for in one way or another. Both ways will involve citizens. One would be directly from patient to provider, which would set prices via the free market and demand quality. The other way would be through taxes/premiums which artificially sets prices where quality is determined by someone sitting at a desk miles away.

I've come to a conclusion that government and corporations are working together because healthcare is big business. That is the sad reality. Corporation influence in washington is pushing us in a direction where corporations and government, have much more control over us than we ever would dream. Contrary to popular belief, corporations are not the private sector jobs we need, and we don't need more government jobs which come at a cost.

Corporations act solely to maximize profits, even at the cost of jobs. You see it at Walmart where they are replacing workers with automated checkout. Even more money bypassing workers going straight to the top. The same is true with healthcare. This country needs to do some research into what is happening. Too much power in too little hands is never good. Expect higher premiums, higher taxes, lower compensation, higher regulations; all while someone on top is getting filthy rich off of the sick. The government and corporations are in collusion together, unless the people of this country figure it out and stop it before it gets too big, it may be too late. Unfortunately I think it is. People are blinded by the mass media which is controlled by corporations which then controls our government. Very sad. Educate yourselves and educate others.
 
Oct 13, 2010
44
0
Status
Pre-Rehab Sci [General]
The government and corporations are in collusion together, unless the people of this country figure it out and stop it before it gets too big, it may be too late. Unfortunately I think it is. People are blinded by the mass media which is controlled by corporations which then controls our government. Very sad. Educate yourselves and educate others.
I totally agree. Now that huge corporations can back gov't campaigns why wouldn't they partner up? It is all a joke. I think we are in dire need of not healthcare reform but total healthcare overhaul, however the media blast "Socialist this" and "Communist that" to scare everyone and it is all incorrect information. Sadly enough, people buy into it before educating themselves on what is actually going on.
 
Oct 15, 2010
51
0
Status
Pre-Rehab Sci [General]
I totally agree. Now that huge corporations can back gov't campaigns why wouldn't they partner up? It is all a joke. I think we are in dire need of not healthcare reform but total healthcare overhaul, however the media blast "Socialist this" and "Communist that" to scare everyone and it is all incorrect information. Sadly enough, people buy into it before educating themselves on what is actually going on.
Agreed.

People don't understand the role lobbyists play, some don't even know what they are. Really, they are the ones linking corporations and government, I would say they are the "middle man" in the chain. Not all lobbyists are bad, though. Just the motives for some are a bit twisted and not for the greater good, only to maximize profits.
 

MuscleHead

10+ Year Member
Feb 13, 2009
207
2
Ambler, PA
Status
Pre-Rehab Sci [General]
I totally agree. Now that huge corporations can back gov't campaigns why wouldn't they partner up? It is all a joke. I think we are in dire need of not healthcare reform but total healthcare overhaul, however the media blast "Socialist this" and "Communist that" to scare everyone and it is all incorrect information. Sadly enough, people buy into it before educating themselves on what is actually going on.
u kidding? barack obama wanted to create a public option, which would eventually destroy all health insurance companies. eventually everyone would end up on this plan, because private insurers wont be able to compete. in the end, the government would essentially own everyones health coverage.

how is this not socialism?
 

lee9786

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Feb 3, 2009
616
9
Status
Pre-Rehab Sci [General]
u kidding? barack obama wanted to create a public option, which would eventually destroy all health insurance companies. eventually everyone would end up on this plan, because private insurers wont be able to compete. in the end, the government would essentially own everyones health coverage.

how is this not socialism?
This is a good example of what I'm talking about. This sounds like it's verbatim from the the O'reilly Factor on Fox News. No offense, but it's the truth. Medicare is socialism too, but you don't here Fox news touting scare tactics to relay fear to the American public. The media in this country is simply a propaganda outlet used as a persuasion mechanism to influence public perception and a political agenda. The democrats have their channels and the republicans have theirs. There is no checks and balances. The independent journalist is virtually nonexistent in this country. The best thing we could all do is turn off these channels, donate to independent journalists, and restore checks and balances to our political system.

What we ultimately need in this country is political reform. I'm tired of having to pick between dumb and dumber. While one is pulling for more government, the other is pulling for more corporations. Both are pulling for more federal government power, even if it is hidden through the influence of corporations and bankers.

Manufacturing is touted as an important industry to get back in the states. While this may be true for helping with exports, it's not the savior for jobs. This sector is moving more and more towards machines. It's an inevitable transformation. So any politician making this connection to jobs, is either uninformed or directly lying to the public. My guess would be the latter.

I find it asinine that we have reduced our political process to these garbage political TV ads, large yard signs, media propoganda, and currupted two-party political system. What we need is voting transparancy. We need more people to choose from. I'm in favor of going back to physically counting ballots. I have no faith that my electronic vote actually counts. In short i'm for giving the power back to the citizens of this country and take it away from those who really are in control - the bankers and corporations.

I'm not in favor of a public option. Their needs to be enough competitors, however, to influence market forces and bring costs down. With the mergers of private health insurance over the past decade, will the barrier of entry be too high for small insurance companies to compete? Very important question to find out. Without it the oligopoly will eventually merge into a monopoly, and be no different than a single,government run payer system.
 
Feb 10, 2010
78
0
Ohio
Status
Rehab Sci Student
This is a good example of what I'm talking about. This sounds like it's verbatim from the the O'reilly Factor on Fox News. No offense, but it's the truth. Medicare is socialism too, but you don't here Fox news touting scare tactics to relay fear to the American public. The media in this country is simply a propaganda outlet used as a persuasion mechanism to influence public perception and a political agenda. The democrats have their channels and the republicans have theirs. There is no checks and balances. The independent journalist is virtually nonexistent in this country. The best thing we could all do is turn off these channels, donate to independent journalists, and restore checks and balances to our political system.

What we ultimately need in this country is political reform. I'm tired of having to pick between dumb and dumber. While one is pulling for more government, the other is pulling for more corporations. Both are pulling for more federal government power, even if it is hidden through the influence of corporations and bankers.

Manufacturing is touted as an important industry to get back in the states. While this may be true for helping with exports, it's not the savior for jobs. This sector is moving more and more towards machines. It's an inevitable transformation. So any politician making this connection to jobs, is either uninformed or directly lying to the public. My guess would be the latter.

I find it asinine that we have reduced our political process to these garbage political TV ads, large yard signs, media propoganda, and currupted two-party political system. What we need is voting transparancy. We need more people to choose from. I'm in favor of going back to physically counting ballots. I have no faith that my electronic vote actually counts. In short i'm for giving the power back to the citizens of this country and take it away from those who really are in control - the bankers and corporations.

I'm not in favor of a public option. Their needs to be enough competitors, however, to influence market forces and bring costs down. With the mergers of private health insurance over the past decade, will the barrier of entry be too high for small insurance companies to compete? Very important question to find out. Without it the oligopoly will eventually merge into a monopoly, and be no different than a single,government run payer system.
:thumbup:good post