Public Health Programs

[Sunnygirl]

Does anyone have any info on the different reputations of different schools of public health? The only thing I have been able to find was the US News top 5...

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[poloace]

public health is relatively easy. i'm at columbia getting my mph in epidemiology. it is no where near as challenging as undergrad- totally different environment and feel to the program. don't get your mph to help you get into med school. only do it if you feel that you'll use it later on as a physician. in fact, if you get it before going to med school- be prepared to be asked why you did it that way, as some adcoms know that people do it thinking it improves their chances of getting in, while in reality, it may not.

as for the reputations- UNC is great, columbia is cool, i know people who have left yale to come here, but - i'm sure that goes both ways... UCLA has a good program, i'm sure the UT program is good too.

an informative website is:

http://www.asph.org/aa_section.cfm?section_id=151

if you have any questions- let me know-

p

 

[Sunnygirl]

Thanks, Polace... I am considering whether to do a joint MD/MPH program once I start med school in the fall. I was just curious how those in the field regard different schools of public health -- for example, I was surprised to see that US News' Rankings (which are, as always, seen as arbitrary and controversial) had
1. Hopkins
2. Harvard
3. UNC
4. Michigan
5. University of Washington

What surprised me most was that UNC was there, and that neither Columbia nor Yale was there.

What do you think of Columbia and Yale's programs as opposed to Harvard's and Michigan's? Thanks!

 

[poloace]

all the schools you are considering are great. however, they will offer you varying concentrations in public health. also, if you are familiar with the kind of education you hope to gain from the program, choosing a school becomes a matter of finding faculty who work on the topics you're interested in. on a more general note, you may find that schools differ within the sub-specialties that you can focus on. for example, at columbia- the two epidemiology topics that people are really into are cancer epi and HIV epi.

at yale, they have a microbail infectious disease track that i had considered. i've worked pretty hard with the director of the epidemiology dept. here at columbia to tailor the coursework and lectures so that future students gain more than i did in my two years here. the problem with public health (specifically epi) is that it is such a new science that there are, within the discipline, varying thoughts and mindsets as to how a proper epidemiological study is conducted, and within that, what tools are to be used to analyze the data.

p

 

[abw]

Hey!
If you were considering doing an md/mph i would recommend it. I'm doing my mph before med school, and am so glad i did. I think every med student should take at least some pub. health courses to understand the societal/economic impact of medicine. I only have the experience of my school so i can't personally comment on what's the best, but the ones everyone else mentioned are the big names. I have to push the health education concentration - it teaches you about effective patient-provider communication which can really help once you start your practice.

 

[lotanna]

EPIDEMIOLOGY ROCKS

I'm finishing up my masters in epi, and have several physicians as classmates, you cant go wrong doing it.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by Sunnygirl
What surprised me most was that UNC was there,

UNC-Chapel Hill is one of the best all around universities in the US(medical school included)! And for the cost, is one of the best overall educational deals in the country. EVERYONE in public health circles knows this is a fact, so educate yourself! (OK, I'm a tarheel alumni, so I get alittle offended sometimes )

 

[SistaKaren]

Originally posted by pathdr2b
UNC-Chapel Hill is one of the best all around universities in the US(medical school included)! And for the cost, is one of the best overall educational deals in the country. EVERYONE in public health circles knows this is a fact, so educate yourself! (OK, I'm a tarheel alumni, so I get alittle offended sometimes )

Hahaha...amen, path!! Go Heels!

yes yes....I love my school...

 

[Mangs]

I definitely agree with all the posts on here. I'm at Boston University School of Public Health..My concentration is in International Health but, I've taken coursework that runs the full public health spectrum. It's definitely been a real eye-opening experience. I wish that I had taken more public health courses in undergrad. I feel like I am more aware of the dynamics, policies, social constructs, etc effecting health care. There are tons of physicians in our program, along with other health care professionals. I would really consider it the cross roads of health care. It's nice to hear the diverse perspectives on care from all those who are (or will be) critically involved in it. I also think that EVERY physician should be required to take public health courses..I mean, I feel like I've learned a lot more that is truly applicable than in many of the so called med school, "pre-req's" (which most physicians say they barely think about once they get into their specialties)..However, things like, Medical Ethics, the responsibility of the physician in informed consent, malpractice,Epidemiology, Biostats..those are like right at the core of life as a physician...

I'm starting med school this fall 2003, and I am psyched! I totally feel like my experience w/ my MPH was invaluable..Lastly, the BUSPH classroom experience is great. I felt like I was learning and not obsessing over "grades". THe professors are generally VERY well organized, and there is a lot of great interaction even in the large core requirement courses like Epi, Biostats, Public Health Lawetc..
PM me if you have anymore questions!!

Good luck!

 

[conure]

To OP,

I did my MPH at BU five years ago and I'm finally taking a shot at med-school.

Of those programs you mentioned be sure that you understand the goals of each very clearly. For example, the Harvard MPH program is really designed for MDs. In fact I think its very, very rare they take anyone without an advanced degree already.

BU is not that way. They have a mix of all kinds of people from Bachelors degree students, MSw candidates, and physicians.
International health and Health Law are their strongest concentrations but you get exposed to everything, in the true philosophy of public health.

 

[TexasGuy41]

Dartmouth's brand new MPH program (which I'm doing) is only 9 months long, whereas all of the other schools seem to be 2 years. Now I know that may raise some other concerns, but for the student that is definitely set on going to medical school, only 9 months is a pretty good deal. Plus, if you've taken the MCAT, those will suffice instead of the GRE for your application to Dartmouth. And if you like skiing and ridiculously cold winters, its paradise. Dartmouth's MPH is based in their relatively new Center for Evaluative Clinical Sciences, and the degree exposes the student to all of the traditional Public Health fields, but it does focus on the evaluative sciences. There is also a required field experience where you can head out into NH, VT, etc and try to implement what you've learned in an actual clinic, office, etc.

 

[jon_jon]

From the listing, it's likely that they heavily weighed research.

Harvard and Hopkins programs (especially their doctoral programs) are heavily research-oriented like their medical school counterparts. Their MPH programs are more practical in nature and is in general for people already with MDs. They both offer a masters program for non-MDs, but I believe they award either an MS or MHS degree.

Yale program is nice because of their small size with more opportunity to interact closely with faculty members. Columbia's program seems to be good program that attracts students mainly from the NYC area.

Originally posted by Sunnygirl
Thanks, Polace... I am considering whether to do a joint MD/MPH program once I start med school in the fall. I was just curious how those in the field regard different schools of public health -- for example, I was surprised to see that US News' Rankings (which are, as always, seen as arbitrary and controversial) had
1. Hopkins
2. Harvard
3. UNC
4. Michigan
5. University of Washington

What surprised me most was that UNC was there, and that neither Columbia nor Yale was there.

What do you think of Columbia and Yale's programs as opposed to Harvard's and Michigan's? Thanks!

 

[Saluki]

So is an MS in epidemiology the same thing as an MPH? If not, what's the difference?

 

[jimkel19]

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[Adcadet]

here is the complete US News ranking, for those curious:

Rank/School Average
reputation score
(5 = highest)
1. Johns Hopkins University (MD) 4.9
2. Harvard University (MA) 4.8
3. University of North Carolina?Chapel Hill 4.6
4. University of Michigan?Ann Arbor 4.4
5. University of Washington 4.3
6. Columbia University (NY) 3.9
7. University of California?Berkeley 3.6
University of California?Los Angeles 3.6
University of Minnesota?Twin Cities 3.6
10. Yale University (CT) 3.4
11. Emory University (GA) 3.3
12. University of Texas?Houston 3.2
13. Tulane University (LA) 3.1
University of Pittsburgh 3.1
15. Boston University 3.0
16. University of Alabama?Birmingham 2.9
University of Illinois?Chicago 2.9
18. University of Massachusetts?Amherst 2.6


Note: All schools listed have master's programs; some may not have doctoral programs.

*This ranking was computed in January of the year cited, based on data from a survey sent out in the fall of the previous year.

 

[Adcadet]

Originally posted by jon_jon
From the listing, it's likely that they heavily weighed research.

I agree. And a research powerhouse is not necessarily the best place to do your MPH as there isn't a huge research requirement for the MPH. I'd choose a school for an MPH first and foremost based upon teaching. Unlike some classes in which you just memorize stuff, epi is a thinkingperson's discipline and it really helps to have a great teacher for epi I and epi II.

If you do want to continue doing basic research while doing your MPH (as I am), having a large university around is always nice although if the one prof you want to do research with is at Podunk U, then go there!

 

[Mangs]

At least at BU School of Public Health, and I would venture to say the same is true elsewhere. The MPH is considered a practical degree, like an MBA. It is designed to teach you how to implement programs, studies, etc in a work environment. There is a strong emphasis on "real life experience", individuals are sometimes required and strongly encouraged to do field placements during their tenure in the program. Whereas a Master's in Science is an academic degree, geared more towards training you to do do academic work and for perhaps a Phd program later. I think the emphasis is more on producing a thesis rather than the field placement. So I would think an MPH in Epi and a MS in Epi would be similar in some of the basics but the philosophy behind the title is a little different and what you are ultimately required to do as you finish the program.

I hope that brings some clarity..Others feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by Adcadet
[BIf you do want to continue doing basic research while doing your MPH (as I am), having a large university around is always nice although if the one prof you want to do research with is at Podunk U, then go there! [/B]

My dear Adcadet I was wondering how long it would be before you responded to this thread.

I wanted to mention that The University of Pennsylvania also has a new MPH program and an already established MS in Clinical Epidemiology program too! The genetic epidmeiology research there is fantastic from what I understand.

 

[Adcadet]

Originally posted by pathdr2b
My dear Adcadet I was wondering how long it would be before you responded to this thread.

Did it really take me 14 hours? My God I'm getting slow!



Re: MPH vs. MS - at my school they explain that the MPH is a professional degree, with a scaled back thesis and an added field experience (90 hours). They also told us that PhD programs in Epi now prefer applicants to have had the MPH over MS.


I would recommend the U of MN to most people. We have a bunch of research in cardiovascular stuff (I would bet we're one of the top programs in the world for CVD and the field was practically invented at Minnesota). We have an emerging genetic epi area, though it's too new to know how good it is. We do at least some cancer epi, mostly colon cancer from what I can tell. I must admit we are rather weak on ID epi unless you're interested in the association between poor oral hygene and CVD. When I came we had two faculty members doing good research, but one got recruited to Harvard. So if you're interested in Epi ID I would make sure we have a faculty member for you to work with (though, as a huge university you can always look outside the SPH). Minnesota is also a very good place if you're interested in tobacco (my area) and community-level interventions. If anybody is interested in Minnesota, just let me know!

 

[KyleLuman]

I personally would not use the rankings of PH schools to choose where to go. Whether you go to Michigan, UNC, Yale, UCLA, Harvard, Hopkins, Berkeley, Emory, etc. will not matter, especially since you are going to end up with an MD and a MPH. Going to Harvard vs. the 35th ranked school will not prevent you from doing anything else in your career.

I would pick the school based on what you want to learn. If you are interested in infectious disease epi, then go to the school that is best for that. If you want injury epi, look for that. If you are interested in health policy or health education or international health, etc. You see there is such a wide variety of possible emphases to choose from.

I personally choose based on location and cost and I ended up at UCLA and am glad I went there. My situation is a little different since I worked with my MPH for 5 years before med school, but that is just my two cents.

 

[brownman24]

I have taken courses at Hopkins and Yale, and they both offer great facilities and great hands on teaching. There is lots of research going on at both places, but WAY more at hopkins.

The biggest differences that I noticed between the two schools is that Hopkins is overflowing with many older people (not just out of undergrad) who have experience in all facets of health care, not just MDs. There are also many international students at hopkins that bring different perspectives and experience. The professors often open the floor to students who may know more about a specific topic from their experiences in the field than even the prof. Hopkins is also on the quarter system, so their courses last half a semester, and you can take a lot more classes in your time there. Because of the same reason, courses can be much more specific.

At Yale, most of the students are within a few years or directly out of undergrad, however there are a fair number of people with advanced degrees. Many students live in the dorms on campus and it has way more of a college feel to it. Students are also very active in the community, more so than their older counterparts at hopkins, many of whom are married and are getting degrees to increase their upside at a job that they already have.

This just my point of view of these two places. I hope it helps explain the different "feel" of the schools. Also, they offer different concentrations. The main reason I came to yale was because of the Epidemiology of Microbial Disease Track.

 

[Rdhdstpkd]

One thing to keep in mind is to look at the school's acreditation. There are many major universities with really interesting SPHs programs that are not acredited (eg. tufts). In fact there are only about 30 acredited programs in the country. I'm not suggesting that these unacredited programs are lacking, but I've seen many, many job listings for the CDC and NIH that require your MPH or MS to come from an acreditted school. Here's a list of acreditted institutions:
http://www.asph.org/aa_section.cfm?section_id=151

Btw, I have an MPH from BU in epi and biostat. I loved BU- great faculty- I mean great. I finished the program in 18 months and I couldn't be happier with my choice.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by Rdhdstpkd
I'm not suggesting that these unacredited programs are lacking, but I've seen many, many job listings for the CDC and NIH that require your MPH or MS to come from an acreditted school.

Accreditation is a good issue to bring up but as to whether or not governmental agencies discount MPH degrees from unaccredited programs (like UPenn) I think depends. I know a few people here at NCI with MPH degree's from unaccredited programs that have not had any problems and it's probably because they also have MD degrees as well. If an MPH is the highest degree you have and it's from an unaccredited program, I can see that being an issue.