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Public Service Loan Forgiveness

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JaySea

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The Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program is a federal repayment programthat pays of your debt after 10 years of IBR payments. There is a new actcalled: StudentLoan Forgiveness Act of 2012 and this will reduce the 10 years to 5years. I'm currently starting my 3rd year as a navy dentist and I still have175K of debt but I've been paying on it with the IBR and my payments have onlybeen around 400 a month. I lower my AGI via TSP and since I have a wife and 2kids that helps lower my payment too. I did the HSCP program because I am aprior dental tech and had time in already so I came in as an 03E with 9 yearsafter the 4 years of dental school added 4 years of time to my active duty. So,this being said if you are contemplating HPSP versus HSCP I'd highly recommendyou think about your decision carefully because with the PSLFP you can max outyour loans as an HSCP person (put money in the bank via loans) and then havethem forgiven in 5-10 years. The HSCP is only available to the navy because the navy is the greatest. To sign this petition and help lower it to 5 yearsgo to:

http://signon.org/sign/support-the-student-loan.fb1?source=s.fb&r_by=3580410
 

hellopeople

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The Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program is a federal repayment programthat pays of your debt after 10 years of IBR payments. There is a new actcalled: StudentLoan Forgiveness Act of 2012 and this will reduce the 10 years to 5years. I'm currently starting my 3rd year as a navy dentist and I still have175K of debt but I've been paying on it with the IBR and my payments have onlybeen around 400 a month. I lower my AGI via TSP and since I have a wife and 2kids that helps lower my payment too. I did the HSCP program because I am aprior dental tech and had time in already so I came in as an 03E with 9 yearsafter the 4 years of dental school added 4 years of time to my active duty. So,this being said if you are contemplating HPSP versus HSCP I'd highly recommendyou think about your decision carefully because with the PSLFP you can max outyour loans as an HSCP person (put money in the bank via loans) and then havethem forgiven in 5-10 years. The HSCP is only available to the navy because the navy is the greatest. To sign this petition and help lower it to 5 yearsgo to:

http://signon.org/sign/support-the-student-loan.fb1?source=s.fb&r_by=3580410

Peachy....

Anyway if anyone wants to track this bill, there is a few sites that will.

Here's one:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr4170
 

Smills91

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The Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program is a federal repayment programthat pays of your debt after 10 years of IBR payments. There is a new actcalled: StudentLoan Forgiveness Act of 2012 and this will reduce the 10 years to 5years. I'm currently starting my 3rd year as a navy dentist and I still have175K of debt but I've been paying on it with the IBR and my payments have onlybeen around 400 a month. I lower my AGI via TSP and since I have a wife and 2kids that helps lower my payment too. I did the HSCP program because I am aprior dental tech and had time in already so I came in as an 03E with 9 yearsafter the 4 years of dental school added 4 years of time to my active duty. So,this being said if you are contemplating HPSP versus HSCP I'd highly recommendyou think about your decision carefully because with the PSLFP you can max outyour loans as an HSCP person (put money in the bank via loans) and then havethem forgiven in 5-10 years. The HSCP is only available to the navy because the navy is the greatest. To sign this petition and help lower it to 5 yearsgo to:

http://signon.org/sign/support-the-student-loan.fb1?source=s.fb&r_by=3580410

This would be huge for me.

So it would 60 payments instead of 120 for the same program essentially?
 

hellopeople

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It would appear not. The full text as well as a summary can be foumd online pretty quickly.

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JaySea

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yep, 60 payments iso 120. If this is passed My family and I would be in financial Nirvana
 

Smills91

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yep, 60 payments iso 120. If this is passed My family and I would be in financial Nirvana

Likewise! I am really excited about this if it passes.
 

MaxillofacialMN

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Woah woah woah, what? Im probably not understanding this correctly, so please correct me, but if you pay your loans for five years, congress will take care of the rest of it for you?!?

This can't be right...
 

Tiankum

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Woah woah woah, what? Im probably not understanding this correctly, so please correct me, but if you pay your loans for five years, congress will take care of the rest of it for you?!?

This can't be right...

Yet another reason why our economy is failing and the national debt is rising exponentially.
 

MaxillofacialMN

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Looking into this, it looks like you are only eligible of up to 45k dollars, so they wouldn't pay for all of your 200k in debt...
 

JaySea

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Looking into this, it looks like you are only eligible of up to 45k dollars, so they wouldn't pay for all of your 200k in debt...
First of all, if you're so worried about the economy than you're in the wrong profession. Go to law school and then do something about it. I bet you're religious and project your pious attitude upon others as well. Who gives a damn about something this good; enjoy it and stop being righteous.

Secondly, there is only a cap on other student loans that are under graduate degress. However for the Public Service one there is not a cap. This bill encompasses a lot of different things that happen to include revamping the Public Service Loan Forgiveness.
 
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MaxillofacialMN

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First of all, if you're so worried about the economy than you're in the wrong profession. Go to law school and then do something about it. I bet you're religious and project your pious attitude upon others as well. Who gives a damn about something this good; enjoy it and stop being righteous.

Secondly, there is only a cap on other student loans that are under graduate degress. However for the Public Service one there is not a cap. This bill encompasses a lot of different things that happen to include revamping the Public Service Loan Forgiveness.

Only lawyers can have opinions?

I'm not being righteous, I'm just not being ignorant. Having the federal government pay for student debt only magnifies the problem. Student loan debt comes from the illusion that getting a college degree is worth the money that you spend on it. That might be true for 20% of people, but not the majority by far. Having the government pay for student's financial mishaps and encouraging this behavior will create more debt and it punishes those of us who have had personal responsibility are punished by being responsible. This is not about righteousness, but about common sense.

Also, I must have missed the religious overtones of my comment....
 

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I agree about irresponsible student loans; however my 4 years of tuition (living expences not included) for a state dental school was 175K!!! I only borrowed for tuition; therefore due to the ridiculous amounts schools are charging, this would help offset that. Sorry about being passionate and mean. I just think our tuition is ridiculous
 

del Sol DOHC

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I'm not being righteous, I'm just not being ignorant. Having the federal government pay for student debt only magnifies the problem. Student loan debt comes from the illusion that getting a college degree is worth the money that you spend on it. That might be true for 20% of people, but not the majority by far. Having the government pay for student's financial mishaps and encouraging this behavior will create more debt and it punishes those of us who have had personal responsibility are punished by being responsible. This is not about righteousness, but about common sense.

:thumbup:
 

JaySea

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Some people are just mad that they cannot benefit from the pslfp and give thumbs up to irrational fiscal responsibility posts. You all know that if you had 'tuition only' debt of 175K and a program like this was there, that you'd take advantage of it. I only took out direct loans to pay for tuition and never considered private loans (private loans are not sponsored by pslfp). I used my E7 pay via the navy's hscp for me and my family's living expences. Therefore there are a lot of very responsible people like myself that are getting too much debt for higher education. This is the main reason PSLFP doesn't allow people to consolidate private student loans into the program. Nobody can dispute this point and I win
 

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To all the haters... Did you do a navy scholarship for dental school? Where the F do you think that money is coming from??? Ah ha, the tax payers... awww shiz, your dumb A ramblings back fired on you. Navy HPSP pays tuition, a stipend, and a 20 K bonus.... how is this different than responsible tuition based loans. You make great politicians bc of your hipocrisy so F off and get a clue.
 

MaxillofacialMN

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To all the haters... Did you do a navy scholarship for dental school? Where the F do you think that money is coming from??? Ah ha, the tax payers... awww shiz, your dumb A ramblings back fired on you. Navy HPSP pays tuition, a stipend, and a 20 K bonus.... how is this different than responsible tuition based loans. You make great politicians bc of your hipocrisy so F off and get a clue.

I don't now why we're having this conversation in two threads, but serving your country is inherently different than getting your loans paid for free....
 

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To all the haters... Did you do a navy scholarship for dental school? Where the F do you think that money is coming from??? Ah ha, the tax payers... awww shiz, your dumb A ramblings back fired on you. Navy HPSP pays tuition, a stipend, and a 20 K bonus.... how is this different than responsible tuition based loans. You make great politicians bc of your hipocrisy so F off and get a clue.

Meanwhile, you got full E-7 pay during school, full health, medical, and all active duty benefits for you and your kids, and yet you're pushing this (completely hopeless) cause because you still owe money.

The Navy has decided that 4 years payback is enough for 4 years of dental school scholarship, and has also determined that 4 years of E-7 pay as active duty with full benefits is enough for someone they send to dental school. You seem to want more. Frankly, in principle it's no different than the college philosophy major who wants all their loans forgiven. Nothing is free. Those years you spent in school with a steady income and full benefits for everybody while your classmates suffered under the same or even more loans, while living on a shoestring budget - why don't you go and tell them that it isn't fair you still have loans?
 
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del Sol DOHC

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In your time in HSCP, you were paid about $225,000 to attend school. You also got free medical insurance for you and your family, as well as 4 years towards an active duty military retirement. While you attended school, you used your 3 years of Chapter 30 GI Bill benefits totaling about $54,000 and then an additional 12 months of Chapter 33 Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits that paid about $35,000 of your tuition (don't misunderstand me, you earned these benefits with your prior enlisted service and you deserve them, I'm just including them to make a point). Then you graduated, and are now making an O-3E over 9 Dental Officer salary of at least $112,000 or more depending on where you are stationed. Now you want the government to forgive your student loans after 5 years of only having paid about $24,000 of it. Seriously? Unreal.
 

JaySea

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In your time in HSCP, you were paid about $225,000 to attend school. You also got free medical insurance for you and your family, as well as 4 years towards an active duty military retirement. While you attended school, you used your 3 years of Chapter 30 GI Bill benefits totaling about $54,000 and then an additional 12 months of Chapter 33 Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits that paid about $35,000 of your tuition (don't misunderstand me, you earned these benefits with your prior enlisted service and you deserve them, I'm just including them to make a point). Then you graduated, and are now making an O-3E over 9 Dental Officer salary of at least $112,000 or more depending on where you are stationed. Now you want the government to forgive your student loans after 5 years of only having paid about $24,000 of it. Seriously? Unreal.

You nailed it. I did get over 70K in gi bill benefits and I banked it all. Of course I'm an advocate for this program, I have 175 K of tuition-only dental school debt. Wouldn't you do the same? Or would you say, "well I'd rather pay more?". I was ready to pay this off in 10 years under standard repayment at $1900 a month; however now Im paying 387 a month... life is good and could get better if it goes down to 5 years. It's about time the govt helps out people that are trying to better themselves instead of idiotic programs or GSA
 

MaxillofacialMN

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You nailed it. I did get over 70K in gi bill benefits and I banked it all. Of course I'm an advocate for this program, I have 175 K of tuition-only dental school debt. Wouldn't you do the same? Or would you say, "well I'd rather pay more?". I was ready to pay this off in 10 years under standard repayment at $1900 a month; however now Im paying 387 a month... life is good and could get better if it goes down to 5 years. It's about time the govt helps out people that are trying to better themselves instead of idiotic programs or GSA

Jc, maybe I'm misinformed (hopefully, because I didn't read the bill carefully), but I am in the process of applying for an HPSP. In other words, the navy will pay my tuition and I will have very little debt once I graduate. If I can make IBR payments and be out of debt in five years regardless of how much I owe, what is the incentive to do HPSP for anyone? I could just be commissioned after I graduate school if I really wanted to join the navy. Maybe I've missed something - like how to be eligible, but it seems to me like this program would undermine all HPSP programs and other programs that pay for school (peace corps? Native American commitment? Rural medicine commitment?).

Please advise.
 

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Jc, maybe I'm misinformed (hopefully, because I didn't read the bill carefully), but I am in the process of applying for an HPSP. In other words, the navy will pay my tuition and I will have very little debt once I graduate. If I can make IBR payments and be out of debt in five years regardless of how much I owe, what is the incentive to do HPSP for anyone? I could just be commissioned after I graduate school if I really wanted to join the navy. Maybe I've missed something - like how to be eligible, but it seems to me like this program would undermine all HPSP programs and other programs that pay for school (peace corps? Native American commitment? Rural medicine commitment?).

Please advise.

I feel "public service" dental jobs will be harder to get once it becomes wildly popular to utilize the forgiveness system, along with IBR, to avoid student debt. The majority of graduates would be left doing something similar to what is done in the military, wouldn't they? That is, being compelled to work in an area they otherwise might not, at a greatly reduced salary. Add to that the fact that both programs must be re-approved on an individual basis annually (IBR & your public service job), and I would still rather go with the military commitment.

Plus, the program would still be popular with people who want to join the military regardless of other benefits.

As for the loss of federal tax dollars, perhaps it wouldn't be so bad (in our field) if carried out properly. If demand for these positions becomes high enough, perhaps the government could create positions which pay, say, 50K per year to treat severely undeserved areas. Then, the average applicant's annual dental debt (say 70K), plus 50K, minus 10% of income after 150% of the poverty line, might be a worth-while trade because it would reduce access to care issues without requiring an increase in medicaid's dental reimbursement. I mean, that is still a salary of less than 100K per public service dentist per year.

Although I imagine the bill will be - as usual- tweeked before passing, assuming it passes, so discussing it now may be a bit premature.
 

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Jc, maybe I'm misinformed (hopefully, because I didn't read the bill carefully), but I am in the process of applying for an HPSP. In other words, the navy will pay my tuition and I will have very little debt once I graduate. If I can make IBR payments and be out of debt in five years regardless of how much I owe, what is the incentive to do HPSP for anyone? I could just be commissioned after I graduate school if I really wanted to join the navy. Maybe I've missed something - like how to be eligible, but it seems to me like this program would undermine all HPSP programs and other programs that pay for school (peace corps? Native American commitment? Rural medicine commitment?).

Please advise.
That's why I'd reccomend going the HSCP route, therefore you'd be earning 4 years towards retirement and pay (you'd come in as an 03 with 4 years which is a lot more monthly pay). HSCP pays you as an E6 or E7 during school but doesn't pay your tuition. You get promoted to E7 if you make the deans list back to back (like me) or get somebody else to join an HPSP or HSCP. Therefore, you'd get very nice pay as a student, get more pay as a dental officer after graduation, and have your dental school federal (non private) loans paid off after 5 or 10 years (pending new bill approval). In the past HPSP was a no brainer for people without prior service time; however now with the PSLFP out there this changes everything. I hope this helped and either choice is a good one because this is the worlds greatest navy. The HSCP also gives you tricare health insurance so you don't have to pay student insurance. You are active duty but your only job is maintaining a 2.5 gpa, checking in twice a month (online), and passing physical training twice a year.... all easy.
 
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JaySea

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I feel "public service" dental jobs will be harder to get once it becomes wildly popular to utilize the forgiveness system, along with IBR, to avoid student debt. The majority of graduates would be left doing something similar to what is done in the military, wouldn't they? That is, being compelled to work in an area they otherwise might not, at a greatly reduced salary. Add to that the fact that both programs must be re-approved on an individual basis annually (IBR & your public service job), and I would still rather go with the military commitment.

Plus, the program would still be popular with people who want to join the military regardless of other benefits.

As for the loss of federal tax dollars, perhaps it wouldn't be so bad (in our field) if carried out properly. If demand for these positions becomes high enough, perhaps the government could create positions which pay, say, 50K per year to treat severely undeserved areas. Then, the average applicant's annual dental debt (say 70K), plus 50K, minus 10% of income after 150% of the poverty line, might be a worth-while trade because it would reduce access to care issues without requiring an increase in medicaid's dental reimbursement. I mean, that is still a salary of less than 100K per public service dentist per year.

Although I imagine the bill will be - as usual- tweeked before passing, assuming it passes, so discussing it now may be a bit premature.
Good points. Just remember you also have the option of making your practice a 501(c) which would qualify you for forgiveness after the time line of the PSLFP. I don't know that much about the 501 (c) thing but I think it proves you are a not for profit practice (which is an oxymoron if you ask me) orproves you are accepting unlimited medicaid. Since I'm doing all my PSLF time in the navy I never really had an incentive to really research the 501(c) thing
 

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Good points. Just remember you also have the option of making your practice a 501(c) which would qualify you for forgiveness after the time line of the PSLFP. I don't know that much about the 501 (c) thing but I think it proves you are a not for profit practice (which is an oxymoron if you ask me) orproves you are accepting unlimited medicaid. Since I'm doing all my PSLF time in the navy I never really had an incentive to really research the 501(c) thing

I never looked into it. It seems that would actually completely undermine my speculation though.

Oh well, at least I can tell myself I never got a handout....
 

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Jaysea - you blow me away. I cannot tell if you're serious or trolling.

This is not the direction we want to take our country or educational costs. I dont want to go into all the economics of it all because I think it would be wasted on you; I just want to say that I cannot believe that someone with all your education has been so easily misinformed or fails to see past their own (temporary) benefits.

The truth is any federal retirement you're earning will be either worthless or nonexistent by the time of your retirement if we continue down this road of debt. The debt we carry is unprecedented and the US has failed to meet payments/benefits obligations to veterans in the past during hard economic times. I hope for all our futures that bills like these that "buy votes" do not pass.

I mean, dam*! Your own salary is dependent on the solvency of the US economy. I would think you would be most interested in this as your paycheck and retirement is linked to it and the tax payers/voters will to pay you it. I dont think you should take it for granted.
 
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I've contacted some people who knows about Washington. (they actually do this for living) they told me it is very very unlikely for this law to pass. I guess congress is having hard time compromising even on Stafford loan interest rates which expires in July. That sums it up for me
 
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MaxAnn

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I was a 4 year Navy hpsp scholarship recipient, and I'm in my 2nd year of payback. Additionally, I am taking advantage of the PSLFP. The scholarship was great, but I took out loans in school to fill in the gaps when HPSP wasn't enough. I'm not bitter about because I don't think I would've graduated without the scholarship, which allowed me to focus on school. I had a family in school, so the scholarship really helped.

At any rate, I think the PSLFP is a great option whether it remains at 10 yrs or drops to 5. 99% of my classmates I've talked to since graduation are in heavy debt, and realistically feel they will be for many years to come while they still have to borrow for mortgages, practices, and save for their retirement themselves.

The military is not perfect, but I am able to save money each money in a 529 program for my kids education, roth ira and tsp for myself. My family has a comfortable lifestyle in the military. I won't get rich, but I won't starve either. If I continue past 10 years, I will retire at 50. I'm prior service so the O3E pay really helps as well.

I can see JaySea side and the point of the others. Americans as a whole take a lot for granted, and really don't see the benefits we have:

1) Most countries student loans are not an option; you either have the money or you don't.

2) Most countries have no real solution for working your way up from top to bottom. If you're born poor, you will most likely live and die poor.

3) If you're an American, you live in the top 1% of the standard of living in the world. Having served overseas, I can see this is very accurate.

4) Not to preach, but appreciate the opportunities America has given you. I'm an underrepresented minority who grew up very poor, but I've learned and done a lot in service of my country, and I don't regret it. Happy Memorial Day to all those who gave everything... once.
 

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To all the haters... Did you do a navy scholarship for dental school? Where the F do you think that money is coming from??? Ah ha, the tax payers... awww shiz, your dumb A ramblings back fired on you. Navy HPSP pays tuition, a stipend, and a 20 K bonus.... how is this different than responsible tuition based loans. You make great politicians bc of your hipocrisy so F off and get a clue.

Is this how you present treatment plans to your patients? U R AWSUMMMM!!!!

Yay Navy!
 
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JaySea

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I was a 4 year Navy hpsp scholarship recipient, and I'm in my 2nd year of payback. Additionally, I am taking advantage of the PSLFP. The scholarship was great, but I took out loans in school to fill in the gaps when HPSP wasn't enough. I'm not bitter about because I don't think I would've graduated without the scholarship, which allowed me to focus on school. I had a family in school, so the scholarship really helped.

At any rate, I think the PSLFP is a great option whether it remains at 10 yrs or drops to 5. 99% of my classmates I've talked to since graduation are in heavy debt, and realistically feel they will be for many years to come while they still have to borrow for mortgages, practices, and save for their retirement themselves.

The military is not perfect, but I am able to save money each money in a 529 program for my kids education, roth ira and tsp for myself. My family has a comfortable lifestyle in the military. I won't get rich, but I won't starve either. If I continue past 10 years, I will retire at 50. I'm prior service so the O3E pay really helps as well.

I can see JaySea side and the point of the others. Americans as a whole take a lot for granted, and really don't see the benefits we have:

1) Most countries student loans are not an option; you either have the money or you don't.

2) Most countries have no real solution for working your way up from top to bottom. If you're born poor, you will most likely live and die poor.

3) If you're an American, you live in the top 1% of the standard of living in the world. Having served overseas, I can see this is very accurate.

4) Not to preach, but appreciate the opportunities America has given you. I'm an underrepresented minority who grew up very poor, but I've learned and done a lot in service of my country, and I don't regret it. Happy Memorial Day to all those who gave everything... once.

No doubt, I feel your past. I grew up poor as well. Nobody in my family even went to college and that's why I enlisted. I used tuition assistance for my undergrad bc my family couldn't afford to send me to college. I think that if tax money can benefit the right group of people (healthcare professionals, teachers, etc) while at the same time allowing better access to underserved populations then it's a win-win. Tax money is always wasted so a program like pslf is at least thoughtful and benefits society as a whole.
 
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JaySea

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I've contacted some people who knows about Washington. (they actually do this for living) they told me it is very very unlikely for this law to pass. I guess congress is having hard time compromising even on Stafford loan interest rates which expires in July. That sums it up for me

Have ur friend tell those jokers in dc that congress doesn't always have to be a place where things go to die
 

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I never looked into it. It seems that would actually completely undermine my speculation though.

Oh well, at least I can tell myself I never got a handout....

Did you do the HPSP? I think that's a handout. Why didn't you just foot your education costs and serve your country; then you'd be really patriotic, righteous, and wihout "handouts".
 

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Jaysea - you blow me away. I cannot tell if you're serious or trolling.

This is not the direction we want to take our country or educational costs. I dont want to go into all the economics of it all because I think it would be wasted on you; I just want to say that I cannot believe that someone with all your education has been so easily misinformed or fails to see past their own (temporary) benefits.

The truth is any federal retirement you're earning will be either worthless or nonexistent by the time of your retirement if we continue down this road of debt. The debt we carry is unprecedented and the US has failed to meet payments/benefits obligations to veterans in the past during hard economic times. I hope for all our futures that bills like these that "buy votes" do not pass.

I mean, dam*! Your own salary is dependent on the solvency of the US economy. I would think you would be most interested in this as your paycheck and retirement is linked to it and the tax payers/voters will to pay you it. I dont think you should take it for granted.

You did hpsp, right? Well, that just proves you're a hipocrite
 

MaxillofacialMN

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You did hpsp, right? Well, that just proves you're a hipocrite

Jaysea, you keep failing to see that an HPSP is not the same as this program. Through an HPSP, you are providing a service and getting compensated for it. Through loan forgiveness, you are not providing any service, yet you get compensated for it....

You're equating people on welfare with government employees. The money may all come from the gov, but for very different reasons.
 

vellnueve

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You did hpsp, right? Well, that just proves you're a hipocrite

It boggles my mind that you're a doctor and you don't know how to spell hypocrite.

That's only one of the things in this thread that boggles my mind, though.

The HPSP is economically speaking no different than the massive CSAB they're giving to fully trained dentists entering the armed services - some dentists are being offered over 450K to join up for 4 years. You got a program that, economically speaking, was pretty similar in terms of expenditures to what HPSP students got - 4 years of E-7 pay totaling well over 200K in take-home pay plus full military benefits and time towards retirement. Your family was taken care of while HPSP students needed to scratch together money to take care of their families - that stipend really doesn't go that far, AND you leveraged your hard-earned GI Bill benefits to help pay for school. What you're doing here is asking for more, more, more. The person here with the entitlement complex, the one who keeps asking for handouts, is not those that you name "hipocrite," it's you. You're basically stating that you want to be paid to go to school, get paid for 5 years as a military dentist, and then owe no more money while the lenders (the taxpayers) get screwed over on their investment. Do you really think you're so valuable that you're worth that much? I got news for you, you're not.

When loans are paid out, it is expected and reasonable that they be paid back. If you didn't want to pay back your loans, or at least a good portion of them, you should have not taken loans out. That's on you, and that burden and resultant additional debt should not be tossed back on a country that is already deeply in debt. You are no different than the idiots who major in philosophy or English in college, taking out hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans and then demanding that those loans be forgiven - except that you have the means to make that money and pay that debt back. The fact that you want to essentially pay back less than 20% of that loan for minimal service that you're already obligated to serve anyways reflects poorly on your character. Ten years for loan forgiveness is already way too generous in my book - I think it should be 15 minimum.

In any case, it's academic, because there's no chance in hell that that bill will pass. Going around to multiple forums and spamming the link for an internet petition is simultaneously hopeless and laughable. Best wishes on paying off your loans :)


This post reflects my own opinions and does not reflect the official position or policies of the DoD or the United States Navy.
 
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koobpheej

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It boggles my mind that you're a doctor and you don't know how to spell hypocrite.

That's only one of the things in this thread that boggles my mind, though.

The HPSP is economically speaking no different than the massive CSAB they're giving to fully trained dentists entering the armed services - some dentists are being offered over 450K to join up for 4 years. You got a program that, economically speaking, was pretty similar in terms of expenditures to what HPSP students got - 4 years of E-7 pay totaling well over 200K in take-home pay plus full military benefits and time towards retirement. Your family was taken care of while HPSP students needed to scratch together money to take care of their families - that stipend really doesn't go that far. What you're doing here is asking for more, more, more. The person here with the entitlement complex, the one who keeps asking for handouts, is not those that you name "hipocrite," it's you. You're basically stating that you want to be paid to go to school, get paid for 5 years as a military dentist, and then owe no more money while the lenders (the taxpayers) get screwed over on their investment. Do you really think you're so valuable that you're worth that much? I got news for you, you're not.

When loans are paid out, it is expected and reasonable that they be paid back. If you didn't want to pay back your loans, or at least a good portion of them, you should have not taken loans out. That's on you, and that burden and resultant additional debt should not be tossed back on a country that is already deeply in debt. You are no different than the idiots who major in philosophy or English in college, taking out hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans and then demanding that those loans be forgiven - except that you have the means to make that money and pay that debt back. The fact that you want to essentially pay back less than 20% of that loan for minimal service that you're already obligated to serve anyways reflects poorly on your character. Ten years for loan forgiveness is already way too generous in my book - I think it should be 15 minimum.

In any case, it's academic, because there's no chance in hell that that bill will pass.


This post reflects my own opinions and does not reflect the official position or policies of the DoD or the United States Navy.

I perhaps see your point that to do both HPSP/HSCP and this new loan forgiveness system is an abuse. However, if you compare one individual who accepted a scholarship to one who did not, then later elected to join the military or otherwise enter "public service" because now they can afford to do so and still manage their debt. I think there is not much difference rather than timing (that may depend on ascension bonuses available, but when I have discussed those bonuses previously, it has almost exclusively been no more than $75K, I don't know where that $475K figure came from). I have regretted not joining the military on a number of occasions (slightly from a debt load stand-point, but more from a desire to serve standpoint-my regret is peaked every year on Memorial Day) this program makes it seem almost plausible to do so--almost a retro-active HPSP.
 

vellnueve

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The huge bonuses are for oral surgeons. I was speaking with colleagues in the private sector who report that multiple surgeons are getting offers including high bonuses if they join up.
 
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del Sol DOHC

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It boggles my mind that you're a doctor and you don't know how to spell hypocrite.

That's only one of the things in this thread that boggles my mind, though.

The HPSP is economically speaking no different than the massive CSAB they're giving to fully trained dentists entering the armed services - some dentists are being offered over 450K to join up for 4 years. You got a program that, economically speaking, was pretty similar in terms of expenditures to what HPSP students got - 4 years of E-7 pay totaling well over 200K in take-home pay plus full military benefits and time towards retirement. Your family was taken care of while HPSP students needed to scratch together money to take care of their families - that stipend really doesn't go that far, AND you leveraged your hard-earned GI Bill benefits to help pay for school. What you're doing here is asking for more, more, more. The person here with the entitlement complex, the one who keeps asking for handouts, is not those that you name "hipocrite," it's you. You're basically stating that you want to be paid to go to school, get paid for 5 years as a military dentist, and then owe no more money while the lenders (the taxpayers) get screwed over on their investment. Do you really think you're so valuable that you're worth that much? I got news for you, you're not.

When loans are paid out, it is expected and reasonable that they be paid back. If you didn't want to pay back your loans, or at least a good portion of them, you should have not taken loans out. That's on you, and that burden and resultant additional debt should not be tossed back on a country that is already deeply in debt. You are no different than the idiots who major in philosophy or English in college, taking out hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans and then demanding that those loans be forgiven - except that you have the means to make that money and pay that debt back. The fact that you want to essentially pay back less than 20% of that loan for minimal service that you're already obligated to serve anyways reflects poorly on your character. Ten years for loan forgiveness is already way too generous in my book - I think it should be 15 minimum.

In any case, it's academic, because there's no chance in hell that that bill will pass. Going around to multiple forums and spamming the link for an internet petition is simultaneously hopeless and laughable. Best wishes on paying off your loans :)

Best post in the thread.
 

JaySea

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Jaysea, you keep failing to see that an HPSP is not the same as this program. Through an HPSP, you are providing a service and getting compensated for it. Through loan forgiveness, you are not providing any service, yet you get compensated for it....

You're equating people on welfare with government employees. The money may all come from the gov, but for very different reasons.

It's called "PUBLIC SERVICE loan forgiveness" capital words empahasized for a reason. That means you serve the public before your loans are forgiven
 
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JaySea

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It boggles my mind that you're a doctor and you don't know how to spell hypocrite.

That's only one of the things in this thread that boggles my mind, though.

The HPSP is economically speaking no different than the massive CSAB they're giving to fully trained dentists entering the armed services - some dentists are being offered over 450K to join up for 4 years. You got a program that, economically speaking, was pretty similar in terms of expenditures to what HPSP students got - 4 years of E-7 pay totaling well over 200K in take-home pay plus full military benefits and time towards retirement. Your family was taken care of while HPSP students needed to scratch together money to take care of their families - that stipend really doesn't go that far, AND you leveraged your hard-earned GI Bill benefits to help pay for school. What you're doing here is asking for more, more, more. The person here with the entitlement complex, the one who keeps asking for handouts, is not those that you name "hipocrite," it's you. You're basically stating that you want to be paid to go to school, get paid for 5 years as a military dentist, and then owe no more money while the lenders (the taxpayers) get screwed over on their investment. Do you really think you're so valuable that you're worth that much? I got news for you, you're not.

When loans are paid out, it is expected and reasonable that they be paid back. If you didn't want to pay back your loans, or at least a good portion of them, you should have not taken loans out. That's on you, and that burden and resultant additional debt should not be tossed back on a country that is already deeply in debt. You are no different than the idiots who major in philosophy or English in college, taking out hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans and then demanding that those loans be forgiven - except that you have the means to make that money and pay that debt back. The fact that you want to essentially pay back less than 20% of that loan for minimal service that you're already obligated to serve anyways reflects poorly on your character. Ten years for loan forgiveness is already way too generous in my book - I think it should be 15 minimum.

In any case, it's academic, because there's no chance in hell that that bill will pass. Going around to multiple forums and spamming the link for an internet petition is simultaneously hopeless and laughable. Best wishes on paying off your loans :)


This post reflects my own opinions and does not reflect the official position or policies of the DoD or the United States Navy.

From: JaySea
To: The haters

Even if I did spell it wrong, that doesn't measure my intelligence. Here, again, is another ignoramous that thinks fixing teeth is something like being an astronaut. Seriously, get over your title; you probably think MO or DO posterior composites are good and don't give your pt's informed consent, thereby foregoing options on the materials you're using. Also, the main points you both (del sol included) are conveniently forgetting are: pslf is no different than hpsp in that you're (hey I spelled that with possession) giving back to your community while receiving a benefit. I'm also giving 4 years of my life for the hscp like people do for the hpsp. The pslf program gives me an incentive to give another 6 years for my country... so what's your problems???

Here is something indisputable.... For many generations professionals have been paying ~ 6% interest on FEDERAL loans. Therefore us professionals have been REDUCING the national debt for many, many years. I.E., if I were to pay my 175K of tuition only (not inluding living expences) debt in the standard 10 year repayment plan my monthly payments would be $1900 a month. (1900 x 12) x 10 years equals 228k so that's a profit for "tax payers" of 53K. Now, if I did the 30 year repayment plan (like how 30 yr mortgages rip people off) I'd pay about the same for interest as principle. In other words, I'd pay ~ 175K for interest and 175K for principle and that's ~ 350K for 175 K of loans. This proves that we've actually been reducing the debt. All of these years us professionals are reducing the debt... so pick a f-ing side. It's about time we get something back.

Notice that I keep mentioning I only took out loans for dental school TUITION... this implies I was responsible. I didn't need loans for two babies, a wife/homemaker, a home, utilities, medical insurance, etc... bc I had the E7 hscp pay.

Being a dentist is easy. Being in the military is hard. Being a homemaker raising kids is harder. God bless my wife.
 
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MaxillofacialMN

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From: JaySea
To: The haters

Even if I did spell it wrong, that doesn't measure my intelligence. Here, again, is another ignoramous that thinks fixing teeth is something like being an astronaut. Seriously, get over your title; you probably think MO or DO posterior composites are good and don't give your pt's informed consent, thereby foregoing options on the materials you're using. Also, the main points you both (del sol included) are conveniently forgetting are: pslf is no different than hpsp in that you're (hey I spelled that with possession) giving back to your community while receiving a benefit. I'm also giving 4 years of my life for the hscp like people do for the hpsp. The pslf program gives me an incentive to give another 6 years for my country... so what's your problems???

Here is something indisputable.... For many generations professionals have been paying ~ 6% interest on FEDERAL loans. Therefore us professionals have been REDUCING the national debt for many, many years. I.E., if I were to pay my 175K of tuition only (not inluding living expences) debt in the standard 10 year repayment plan my monthly payments would be $1900 a month. (1900 x 12) x 10 years equals 228k so that's a profit for "tax payers" of 53K. Now, if I did the 30 year repayment plan (like how 30 yr mortgages rip people off) I'd pay about the same for interest as principle. In other words, I'd pay ~ 175K for interest and 175K for principle and that's ~ 350K for 175 K of loans. This proves that we've actually been reducing the debt. All of these years us professionals are reducing the debt... so pick a f-ing side. It's about time we get something back.

Notice that I keep mentioning I only took out loans for dental school TUITION... this implies I was responsible. I didn't need loans for two babies, a wife/homemaker, a home, utilities, medical insurance, etc... bc I had the E7 hscp pay.

Being a dentist is easy. Being in the military is hard. Being a homemaker raising kids is harder. God bless my wife.

Lol you think you're (I used it too! Lol) reducing the debt by paying interest.

If you're interested, I've got a bridge to sell you...
 

MaxillofacialMN

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It's called "PUBLIC SERVICE loan forgiveness" capital words empahasized for a reason. That means you serve the public before your loans are forgiven

Oh really? Working in a hospital or at a school and making "normal pay" is the equivalent of being in the military and making O3 pay while in Afghanistan? Hmm... I never looked at it like that before... Probably because they are inherently different.

Just because it's called a "public service" job, doesn't mean you are making any sacrifices for some "greater good." doctors at hospitals (non-profit) make tons of money, and it you are equating their pay and lifestyle to one of someone serving their country in the military, you are sorely mistaken.
 

JaySea

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Oh really? Working in a hospital or at a school and making "normal pay" is the equivalent of being in the military and making O3 pay while in Afghanistan? Hmm... I never looked at it like that before... Probably because they are inherently different.

Just because it's called a "public service" job, doesn't mean you are making any sacrifices for some "greater good." doctors at hospitals (non-profit) make tons of money, and it you are equating their pay and lifestyle to one of someone serving their country in the military, you are sorely mistaken.

Not sure what your talking about? PSLF can also count for military service so your scenario isn't unique to military scholarships.
 
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