Public Vs. Private Hospital

[little_late_MD]

P.S. I bet none of you ancestors spoke English when they immigrated here either.

I'll bet they did if they were English or Irish.

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[ShyRem]

I'll bet they did if they were English or Irish.

My grandparents came from Switzerland. My grandmother spoke 5 languages, my grandfather 7. Both spoke English when they immigrated.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Many of my ancestors from Germany learned English prior to immigrating or very shortly after arrival. This issue is not whether they speak it upon arrival, but rather do they bother to learn it once they are here.

 

[OwnageMobile]

Personally I think you're being a bit overbearing in your attempts to prove yourself better than everyone else because you allegedly spent a little bit of time in Honduras. See that it might not be that I am biased, or that you're flaming me but rather that you're making a very public statement that you feel you are somehow a better candidate to be a doctor than I am because of the fact that you watch a vulture consume a dog whilst living amongst the poor in Honduras and because you're fluent in Spanish. That little story (true or not) smacked of personal statement and gross pomposity.

By the same token as you accuse me of not respecting Hispanics enough to learn the language, then do you not respect other cultures- the ones whose languages I choose to learn and use on a very regular basis through contact with those who speak them- because I don't hear you going out and learning German, French, or any other language. No, it's not because you don't respect them. It's because you choose not to learn them, for whatever reason- good, bad or indifferent. I am not knocking you for being dedicated and a believer in your chosen second language. But I also don't think everyone should be required to speak Spanish in the US as a medical professional, no more than you believe it's right that I suggest that Mexicans residing in the US should at least attempt to learn passable English.

By the way, I said if I were to go to Mexico, as in if I were going to live there, not as if I were going to Acapulco. I would learn the language because of the necessity of it just for the sake of being culturally accepted. Any accusation of unwillingness on my part is grossly unfounded and probably simply reflects an paltry attempt to make your self look better by trying to make me seem like a bigot such as your statement that I don't believe Hispanics are worth my time simply because I don't learn the language. I hope you honestly remove your head from whatever orifice you have it wedged and realize that there is more to delivering competent cross-cultural care than being fluent in Spanish.

To the OP, to answer the initial question, it probably has something to do with showing the wide variety of cases presented and also reinforcing the idea that the purpose of medicine is to care for everyone regardless of any criteria you can think of (other than lack of medical necessity).

We have clearly diverged from a constructive(?) debate into a flame war. I am dissapointed in your malicious conduct in this last post. I wont retaliate with such personal attacks. Your first and thrid paragraphs are slanderous; the second is a ridiculous argument. I do think my experience in Honduras has given me a sense of empathy which you do not have.

 

[Shredder]

At interviews I noticed some people were concerned whether the teaching hospital was a public or private one. Why is that important?

i think the patient base is very different. public tends to have ppl on the indigent side, while private is affluent. private all the way!

as for the financial side--public of course would have something to do with tax money, while private is somehow funded by private groups or individuals. i think privates more likely to be nice and efficient bc ppl stand to profit from it. public--why would anyone care? but this is always my point of view.

 

[Shredder]

Everybody that I've met from a Europoean country speaks 4+ languages, they see it as an opportunity to connect with other people and have a very practical skill, not as a burden.

Americans need to get over themselves. Nobody declared English as the master language of the world.

P.S. I bet none of you ancestors spoke English when they immigrated here either.

bc of historical and geographical differences. european countries are so close to each other and so small. ppl cross borders and encounter multiple languages all the time. USA is so big and isolated though compared to europe. the british pretty much did declare english as the master language due to their imperial domination. whether that was right or wrong, thats how history works. many ancestors do speak english too, even if theyre from non english speaking countries. i think it should be a requirement for immigration

 

[medgirl20]

Bringing the topic back onto topic docs are very reluctant to let you at their private patients. Even just reading their charts etc when they're at endo. Public patients also are much more likely to be treated by the junior docs who in general have more interest in teaching students so you're more likely to learn stuff from them. Also you're waay more likely to get to do procedures on public rather than private patients. Having said all that some private patients have spoken to medical students of their own accord, but it was a bit of a novelty for them where as nearly every medical student has been to see the public patient with X and they're sick of students.

 

[DarkFark]

Just to chime in on the whole multilingual discussion- I think that it should be a priority for immigrants to this country to learn English, and that it is their absolute responsibility to make sure that their children learn it. I find the concept of kids being born here and growing up never speaking English to be disturbing because we run the risk of having a society being divided by language- it has happened before in other countries. I'm not saying that the hispanic components of the population should be melted down and assimilated, but there has to be a common tongue, or we could all end up divided. This is what has happened to other ethnic groups that arrived here, and I see no reason why hispanics should be any different.

 

[Rendar5]

oh, just a point for people to realize, unless u're fluent or near fluent, you should not be doing your own translation (except in emergency situations), you should be using translators. stumbling through spanish is much more of a health care impediment than using a translator. (especially given the large number of false cognates and untranslatable concepts between the two languages).

So a doc who refuses to learn spanish and properly uses a translator is gonna be better than someone with an intermediate level of spanish. Only time I've seen intermediate spanish be useful is in trauma situations. It is not the doctor's job to speak the patient's language, it is the translator's.

(two of the rules of cross-cultural medicine I learned so far are not to translate yourself unless u're near fluency and not to use family members to translate)

 

[Rendar5]

Just to chime in on the whole multilingual discussion- I think that it should be a priority for immigrants to this country to learn English, and that it is their absolute responsibility to make sure that their children learn it. I find the concept of kids being born here and growing up never speaking English to be disturbing because we run the risk of having a society being divided by language- it has happened before in other countries. I'm not saying that the hispanic components of the population should be melted down and assimilated, but there has to be a common tongue, or we could all end up divided. This is what has happened to other ethnic groups that arrived here, and I see no reason why hispanics should be any different.

totally with you on this. luckily (at least in NYC area), this is how it normally works. most kids you see growing up in spanish homes and speaking spanish w/ their friends are completely bilingual. Some of the older people never really learn english to a conversational level, though. But not the majority. I wonder how this differs from region to region.

 

[Rendar5]

This multilingual thing. I grew up in a bilingual household. I learned to speak passable German and French. In Pennsylvania, these languages were rather common. However, now I'm in Colorado and about the only language here other than English is Spanish. Obviously I have no problems trying learning another language, but I do have a problem with those who to go live in a different country yet refuse to learn the language. Note I didn't say have a hard time with the language, I said refuse to learn. If I went to Switzerland I certainly wouldn't expect that country to change their laws, signs, food labels, magazines, etc. to accomodate my refusal to assimilate into a culture I have chosen to live in. However in this country, I find it appalling that we are actually considering (or already have been) changing the laws to enable people to not have to learn anything. What kind of society have we become when I, who was born in this country, feel in the minority in places because I speak the language this country was founded in? When televisions shows and commercials are broadcast in a language I don't understand? I am not unwilling to be multilingual, but I find myself being shut out of the very country I was born in and that is discouraging at best. Let the flame war begin on that one.

Now, unfortunately I don't speak German or French very well at all anymore, and doubt I could converse appropriately without significant refresher - it's been 20 years since I was around anyone who spoke those languages regularly (I do however still try when given the opportunity). However, I have gained a new language with the birth of my children that is absolutely incomprehensible to any child: I now speak Parent. No translation is available at this time to make it understandable to any person under the age of 16.

eh, why are you watching spanish television programs? you don't see me watching Korean television normally (hmm...actually, on occasion when i'm bored, l ) Well, I will admit spanish soaps are really funny and their game shows. But it's targeted television anyway. capitalism and all that. just like all the damn "women's" television channels that are out there. *gag*

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Ownage I'm sorry you feel I'm not empathetic, but I must point out that you don't know me and I think you're missing out that I've been putting my life on the line as a volunteer firefighter for the past 8 years demonstrates as much empathy as your temporary relocation. I'm sure you're very empathetic, but it doesn't come through to me any more than my empathy does to you. You started with the ad hominum attacks, and you called a truce, so I guess we're even then because I have nothing more in the way of constructive comment for you other than to wish you the best of luck in your application.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Oh, and by the way, it's technically libel, not slander (if I'm not correct in my assessments)

 

[OwnageMobile]

Oh, and by the way, it's technically libel, not slander (if I'm not correct in my assessments)

from dictionary.com:
Libel:
1. A false publication, as in writing, print, signs, or pictures, that damages a person's reputation.
2. The act of presenting such material to the public.
2. The written claims presented by a plaintiff in an action at admiralty law or to an ecclesiastical court.

Slander:
1. Law. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
2. A false and malicious statement or report about someone.


They seem pretty synonymous to me...

Praetorian, I am not saying you aren't empathetic; only that you arent so with respect to the hispanic immigrants. Furthermore, if I started with the ad hominem stuff, you surely took it to another level...

You started with the ad hominum attacks, and you called a truce, so I guess we're even

My records are a bit different:

So I made it personal ( -1 point)
You brought the flame ( -1 point)

I don't like it when arguments are reduced to flaming; I wont retort. If you want to call that a truce, that is fine with me, but it's minus 1 point to each of our scores. So we are even on my scoreboard.

Anyway- You have a nice vocabulary and seem like an interesting person. I too wish you the best with your doings. Maybe we can get in a fist fight if we ever meet each other.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Let's take this to a PM discussion, just so as not to bother others with it any further.

 

[DrBowtie]

Libel-written
Slander-verbal

 

[DropkickMurphy]

That was the point I was trying to make Brett, but thank you for the reinforcement. As always

 

[OwnageMobile]

Touche.

Well, technically I guess

 

[DrBowtie]

Touche.

Well, technically I guess

It doesn't really matter all that much that there is a separate distinction between the two. The message is the same but the medium is different. Slander is much harder to prove in court.

 

[hardy]

Yeah, I really have to listen closely when I translate for the Amish. It sounds more like Dutch than the German I learn in school. Imagine the Godfather (that mouth full of cotton "Make him an offer he can't refuse") tone, only in German....gives me a headache listening to it.

It actually is close to Swiss German and has nothing to do with dutch. Although they are sometimes called the dutch, this derives from "dütsch" which is the Swiss German word for German.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

To me it sounds like Dutch, but I wasn't aware the exact linguistics of the Amish dialect. Thanks for the clarification.