Publications required for a "Top 10 Research" School?

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neuroscientist

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Okay, so we all no that some form of research is very important, though not necessarily required, for applying to med school. However, if I am shooting for the stars, so to speak, and am trying to get into a top 10 research school, is a publication necessary? I know research is obviously almost required for acceptance to places like Johns Hopkins, Harvard, etc., but what about publications?

I'm asking because while I will definitely be involved in neuroscience research on my campus, I will probably never have a publication. So, how important is it to get a publication in order to get into somewhere like Johns Hopkins? Is it all but required, or does it not really matter as long as you have the "researching experience"?

Thanks so much! :)

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I hope not.

Don't know what this means... but almost everyone I know who has had a first author publication (also happened to have a 3.8+ GPA and 36+ MCAT) have gotten into multiple top 10 schools.
 
no - but you SHOULD have a sparkling rec letter from a well published PI.
 
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I got into JHU, no pubs. Don't worry about publishing -- just get as much meaningful research experience as you can, get to know your PIs well, and make sure you show in your AMCAS, secondaries, and your interview how much you have taken away from your experiences. Personally, I wouldn't go into an area of research I hated just to get pubs, because I think my lack of interest would show through. And of course make sure the rest of your app is strong as hell too =).
 
PI= primary/principle investigator

I had one pub, but it didn't come out until after I had submitted my application and had to send it as an update, which I've always thought carries a little less weight. Whether you get to publish or not is often a matter of luck and the decision is always out of your hands, and med schools know this. I know quite a few people who have gotten into to these high-powered research schools without pubs. A good letter of req from your research mentor is definately very important, as is being able to competently discuss your work during an interview.
 
Relax.

The "need" for publications and research is certainly way overrated and for some reason, even more so in these forums. Most of those students that get anything published at all (while in undergrad) are never first authors and if they are, the publication is some obscure science magazine or journal that may not even be indexed.

It is a lot more relevant to be the last author of some work that appeared in an indexed publication than the only author of something that no one can find. Top Med schools are not looking for "publications". They are looking for other many qualities including compassion, honesty, personality and interpersonal skills.
 
Most med students don't even have pubs when they apply for residency, so no you don't need it.
 
A guy I know did research for 3 years and didn't get a pub and got into Yale and UCSF. So it doesn't look like you need it.
 
*sigh* #11 school, so I don't know if I can say anything that would matter... :rolleyes: :D
 
I really don't understand why basic-science research is so highly valued by top medical schools... for MD programs!
 
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I think it's because the thinking process you use in basic science is the same as the thinking process you use when you solve cases, do clinical research, and even understand medicine. The MCAT also lines up with this, which is why they test mostly basic science and very little physio.
 
I think it's because the thinking process you use in basic science is the same as the thinking process you use when you solve cases, do clinical research, and even understand medicine. The MCAT also lines up with this, which is why they test mostly basic science and very little physio.


Nah. I imagine the thinking is that they're trying to push academic medicine because that's where new treatments and breakthroughs come from.
 
Okay, so we all no that some form of research is very important, though not necessarily required, for applying to med school. However, if I am shooting for the stars, so to speak, and am trying to get into a top 10 research school, is a publication necessary? I know research is obviously almost required for acceptance to places like Johns Hopkins, Harvard, etc., but what about publications?

I'm asking because while I will definitely be involved in neuroscience research on my campus, I will probably never have a publication. So, how important is it to get a publication in order to get into somewhere like Johns Hopkins? Is it all but required, or does it not really matter as long as you have the "researching experience"?

Thanks so much! :)

It's not required. But there have been deans at top schools who have indicated that the "ideal" candidate will have both clinical and research experience. And the better research experiences often tend to result in a publication. You don't have to have a publication. But when schools get 10,000 applications, you can bet that a couple hundred of your competitors will have publications. So while it isn't required, it certainly helps you to keep up with other applicants at these places. But it would be impossible to quantify how important it is. Certainly if the opportunity arises, take it. But it would be wrong to suggest that folks without publications don't get into these schools. But those without publications certainly have something else going for them. Everyone at a top school had a "hook" that get them in the door. A high MCAT/GPA simply isn't enough to stand out in that crowd.
 
It's not required. But there have been deans at top schools who have indicated that the "ideal" candidate will have both clinical and research experience. And the better research experiences often tend to result in a publication. You don't have to have a publication. But when schools get 10,000 applications, you can bet that a couple hundred of your competitors will have publications. So while it isn't required, it certainly helps you to keep up with other applicants at these places. But it would be impossible to quantify how important it is. Certainly if the opportunity arises, take it. But it would be wrong to suggest that folks without publications don't get into these schools. But those without publications certainly have something else going for them. Everyone at a top school had a "hook" that get them in the door. A high MCAT/GPA simply isn't enough to stand out in that crowd.

This is what I feel. I got into a school that is very much into research (usually ranked around 25th in usnews if that is worth anything) and they were very interested in the fact that I had done research. I did not have a publication but I was very knowledgeable of the topic and really enjoyed it. So choose something you're interested in and something you feel confident talking about because that will be impressive to interviewers.
 
Good News from someone who is JHop bound ( *excitement* ) and had some other great accepts:

NO pubs and NO 36+ MCAT.

Obviously, Im sure these things help a ton and are great accomplishments of many people. BUT, fabulously, they def arent required, there are def a lot of students who get in without them.
 
Good News from someone who is JHop bound ( *excitement* ) and had some other great accepts:

NO pubs and NO 36+ MCAT.

Obviously, Im sure these things help a ton and are great accomplishments of many people. BUT, fabulously, they def arent required, there are def a lot of students who get in without them.

You have the exact MCAT score that I wanted (1 point higher in VR and PS)! Lucky you!
 
You can always tell who hasn't been involved in research yet. I was the same way before I started. I though, "oh, I'm going to get published, and do it within a year" blah, blah, blah. Getting published as an undergrad is hard. Getting published in a well-known journal is near impossible.

Getting published shouldn't be the main goal of undergrad research. Actually learning research techniques and being comfortable in doing things on your own should be what you focus on. Once you have that down, then go after the publication.
 
Good News from someone who is JHop bound ( *excitement* ) and had some other great accepts:

NO pubs and NO 36+ MCAT.

Obviously, Im sure these things help a ton and are great accomplishments of many people. BUT, fabulously, they def arent required, there are def a lot of students who get in without them.

I'm assuming you did some type of research though? Even if no pubs, to get into JHU, UPitt, UPenn? Great GPA & well-balanced MCAT!
 
I'm assuming you did some type of research though? Even if no pubs, to get into JHU, UPitt, UPenn? Great GPA & well-balanced MCAT!

thanks! yup, i did do undergrad research. I just never had any publications from it. i think what helped was that I really understood what i did and what was the goal of the research. thatd be my biggest advice to ppl because almost everywhere i interviewed asked me "tell me a little about ur research." no one asked "y dont u have publications?"
 
Research is by no means required. I got into Columbia and WashU without a day of research. Didn't even have LORs from researchers.

It's definitely doable.
 
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Got into top ten medical school without doing a day of research!
But i am sure i would have learned a lot if i actually had done some research. So i guess doing research would be viewed as a bonus.
 
I also wanted to add that there are clinical research opportunities available, in which you'd be working directly with patients and/or health care providers as well as researchers. This really gives the best of both worlds because you gain insight into research and clinical aspects as well as seeing how the two are interrelated. Plus, if you did end up getting a publication out of clinical research, it's likely someone on the admissions committee will have actually heard of the journal you were published in. ;)
 
Do you think (hypothetically, if I were to get an interview at one of these schools) it would be a bad idea to say that I would prefer not to be involved in basic research at all as a med. student. I gained valuable skills from it but I simply can't see myself working in a lab.

I need a lot of contact with people! Maybe mention an interest in clinical research?

But will saying, "I don't like wet-lab research" be a negative?
 
Do you think (hypothetically, if I were to get an interview at one of these schools) it would be a bad idea to say that I would prefer not to be involved in basic research at all as a med. student. I gained valuable skills from it but I simply can't see myself working in a lab.

I need a lot of contact with people! Maybe mention an interest in clinical research?

But will saying, "I don't like wet-lab research" be a negative?

They are looking for an interest in academics - any research (clinical, wet-lab, or both) is good. I wouldn't mention your distaste for basic science research, but talking about your interest in clinical research and your motivation for pursuing it is definitely important.
 
Do you think (hypothetically, if I were to get an interview at one of these schools) it would be a bad idea to say that I would prefer not to be involved in basic research at all as a med. student. I gained valuable skills from it but I simply can't see myself working in a lab.

I need a lot of contact with people! Maybe mention an interest in clinical research?

But will saying, "I don't like wet-lab research" be a negative?

I know this has already been beaten to death, but I'd just like to add another vote to the "no pubs required" category. Trust me, a lot of the docs you'll be interviewed by can't stand cell culture and pipettes. An interest in basic science research, as well as independance, creativity, and passion for a project you performed, is definitely an asset, but by no means a requirement.

To answer Bozz's question, though, it's definitely not a must. You need to have a passion for something - patients, public health, surgery, something. Probably the only wrong answer is saying you want to do family practice in the boonies, because there's probably better places to train for that (although it's really great to have an interest in family medicine or general practice, they'll just expect you to want to take a public health research or some other leadership role that relates to family practice).

However, a word of advice (conflict of interest disclosure: I'm an MD-PhD). If you attend a Hopkins, UCSF, Michigan, etc., amazing work will be going on all around you. Even if you had a bad experience in college, it might be worth giving it another crack. Remember, research can mean all kinds of things, from mixing obscure chemicals you know nothing about to interviewing AIDs patients in South Africa, so keep an open mind. You'll be surprised by how much more fun you have when you're doing something you're really excited about rather than just fulfilling an admissions requirement.
 
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