Q's: Salary, Hours/Week, Malpractice Rates, & Residency Lengths of Med Specialties???

[sirvandy]

Hi all. I am trying to collect data on the various medcial specialties so that I can compare them and make a more informed decision on what I will eventually want to do. I'll be starting med school this August, but I have heard that there is very little time in med school to figure out what you want to do if you have no clue. Very important to me are "lifestyle" factors like number of hours worked in a week, # hours on-call per week, yearly income, malpractice insurance rates (and who pays that insurance), and burnout rates and happiness levels of doctors in the various specialties. Also of concern are how long the residencies are. I have gotten good data on that from AAMC for most of them, but not the IM subspecialties such as cardiology, gastro, neph, endocrin, etc. (actually, I wasn't aware that these were considered subspecialties of IM until I saw the AAMC website). From a sheer interst level, I think psychiatry, neurology, nuclear medicine, and medical genetics sound the most interesting, but I have to say after some research into the lifestyle questions that anesthesiology, radiology, and dermatology are all attractive as well. They all have high salaries, reasonable lengths of residencies (unlike any of the surgeries), and at least with derm and radiology (and psych too), relatively low hours/week. I was a little disappointed to read that the average neurologist works 61 hours per week. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't want a 40-hr week so that I can sit and watch TV. I have several hobbies that are as important to me as my career, so I would like to reserve some significant time for them outside of work. I really wonder, is it even possible to have a ~40hour workweek, minimal on-call time, high job satisfaction and low burnout, and $200k per year income w/out malpractice insurance eating into it? Is this too much to ask?Speaking of malpractrice insurance, who pays for that? Does it come straight out of your salary, or does your group practice firm pay it for you, etc.? Also, if anyone has some good links to data about average workweeks, that would be grand. Thanks!

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[ddmo]

Let's see... fewer hours and lots of money, who doesn't want that? Because of that, the fields that best meet this, namely Derm and Rads, are highly competitive. The question is, does that material interest you?

I say, worry less about what you are going to do at this point and focus on getting good grades and scores so that whatever you want to do will be available. Besides, you need to have exposure to the different fields before you really know. Which isn't to say that it hurts to have a general idea.

 

[tupac_don]

Let's see... fewer hours and lots of money, who doesn't want that? Because of that, the fields that best meet this, namely Derm and Rads, are highly competitive. The question is, does that material interest you?

I say, worry less about what you are going to do at this point and focus on getting good grades and scores so that whatever you want to do will be available. Besides, you need to have exposure to the different fields before you really know. Which isn't to say that it hurts to have a general idea.

How is Wayne State?? What do you think of it so far?

 

[Winged Scapula]

For information sake, a radiology residency is no longer than a surgical residency and don't be fooled - those residents work hard, and while it appears they go home early post-call, they don't. Most stay several more hours catching up on films from the night before (especially at a busy trauma center). After residency, the hours lighten up somewhat.

Anesthesiology is only 1 year less than surgery, so its not that much shorter, but the hours do tend to be better.

Malpractice insurance is paid by you if you are in private practice or the hospital if you work in an institution or managed care environment.

At any rate, moving this to General Residency Forum where the query is more relevant.

 

[waterski232002]

I agree with DDmoore's post... you've got plenty of time to figure it out in medical school, but it's good that you're alreadying thinking about it, and that you know what you're looking for. Concentrate on getting good grades and killing the boards so that you have a shot at extremely difficult residencies like derm (almost impossible nowadays).

Most people figure out what they are going to do during 3rd year when you are exposed to the majority of the specialties. That will be your biggest help, so don't stress too much now. Here's a good website with salaries for various physicians.

http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm

Also, there's a great book called "Iserson's getting into residency" and it's got all the information in there about how to match into the residency of choice, as well as career lifestyles (avg hours/week, what the fields are like, what procedures they do). I think you would really like the book.

Other specialties that you didn't mention that have great lifestyles, low avg. hrs/week, low or no call, and make good $$$ would include anesthesiology and emergency medicine. These are probably seen as the most standard "lifestyle" careers. Derm and radiology are also lifestyle careers, but you need killer grades, and more importantly, you really have to like them. In Derm, you'll end up forgetting most of the medicine you learned in medical school and in radiology, you have to be able to sit in a cave all day. You'll either love it or hate it.

Hope this helps...

 

[abcde]

What about Ophtho and RadOnc?

 

[doc05]

What about Ophtho and RadOnc?

either can be an excellent choice for the right individual.

both are very competitive, radonc moreso because there are so very very few spots out there. radonc tends to stress research more than most other fields.

ophtho is low hours/week, good to excellent pay depending on location and subspecialty. lots of clinic (means 9-5 in private practice), varying amounts of surgery depending on your specific situation. keep in mind it's all microsurgery and you need a lot better fine motor skills than a general surgeon. you'll probably forget everything in general medicine, but I doubt most ophthalmologists are unhappy about that.

radonc is more hours than you'd think - pretreatment planning requires a lot of work. few emergencies, but they do occur. lots of reading. you'll be in contact with many very very sick/terminal patients, which is not for everyone and can be emotionally draining. very smart docs and loads of research opportunities.

 

[fourthyearmed]

I wouldn't pick any specialty until 3rd and 4th year when you actually experience it. I always thought I'd do medicine and that I'd hate peds but it turns out I loved peds and hated medicine and I am now interviewing for a pediatric residency. You've got to do something you enjoy or your life will suck even if you're only working 40 hours a week. We all have our outside interests, you're not the only one. Unfortunately these have to be put to the side during residency no matter which specialty you choose.

 

[ddmo]

How is Wayne State?? What do you think of it so far?

I like Wayne a lot. I was a little hesitant when I made the decision, but am now glad that I didn't choose to go out east. The traditional lecture, tests once a month thing, works really well with my learning style. Plus I find that people are generally "cool" and that very few are hung up on their acheivements, which is a pet peeve of mine. I would definitely recommend it.

 

[tugbug]

http://phius.com/

That site has a lot of info about the stuff you are asking about.

BTW, seems to be plenty of "time" to figure out what you want to do in med at my med school... Now if I could just figure out "how" to decide...

 

[krufne01]

I'm gonna look like a jerk with this, but someone needs to say it to you.

As a fourth year MS, I know several people in my class who are finishing school and moving out of medicine. Most of them say they just aren't happy enough in medicine to make the required sacrifices. The truth is that medicine is brutal. One attending once put it to me that 'its like having a child, your whole life is committed to it, even when you aren't working or on-call' I am finding this to be true. Med school isn't easy, you will have lots of weeks with 60-80hrs of work, even some 100 hr weeks in 3rd and 4th year. And once you are done, you have residency to do, which is usually another step up. And for you, with your lifestyle and financial aspirations, you'll need to be near the top of you class in med school to get those certain disciplines. And for perspective, most of us don't consider neuro to be a particularly hard discipline.

The hard truth; you need to reassess why you want to be a physician. You need to really ask yourself if you are going into medicine because of what medicine is, not because of the secondary social or financial benefits. Important aspects like type of patients, type of diseases, and type of medicine need to be important in your specialty selection. And right now you know very little about those things and won't until you get some years under your belt.

If you still think you belong in medicine, then forget about your discipline for a few years. Just get in and work your butt of to keep all of your doors open. You'll figure out what to go into in your 3rd year.

Medicine is hard; it takes great commitment and sacrifice. The finicial rewards are diminishing and society doesn't uphold MDs the way it used to. So, to be happy in medicine, you really better love medicine. You can make a lot more money, retire earlier, and live a much healthier life in other careers.

I know what I've said seems harsh. But I've only said it for your benefit. I've seen too many people waste four years in medical school. And I've seen way too many unhappy physicians, which in my opinion often ends up hurting patients.

-K

 

[TripleDegree]

I'm gonna look like a jerk with this, but someone needs to say it to you.

As a fourth year MS, I know several people in my class who are finishing school and moving out of medicine. Most of them say they just aren't happy enough in medicine to make the required sacrifices. The truth is that medicine is brutal. One attending once put it to me that 'its like having a child, your whole life is committed to it, even when you aren't working or on-call' I am finding this to be true. Med school isn't easy, you will have lots of weeks with 60-80hrs of work, even some 100 hr weeks in 3rd and 4th year. And once you are done, you have residency to do, which is usually another step up. And for you, with your lifestyle and financial aspirations, you'll need to be near the top of you class in med school to get those certain disciplines. And for perspective, most of us don't consider neuro to be a particularly hard discipline.

The hard truth; you need to reassess why you want to be a physician. You need to really ask yourself if you are going into medicine because of what medicine is, not because of the secondary social or financial benefits. Important aspects like type of patients, type of diseases, and type of medicine need to be important in your specialty selection. And right now you know very little about those things and won't until you get some years under your belt.

If you still think you belong in medicine, then forget about your discipline for a few years. Just get in and work your butt of to keep all of your doors open. You'll figure out what to go into in your 3rd year.

Medicine is hard; it takes great commitment and sacrifice. The finicial rewards are diminishing and society doesn't uphold MDs the way it used to. So, to be happy in medicine, you really better love medicine. You can make a lot more money, retire earlier, and live a much healthier life in other careers.

I know what I've said seems harsh. But I've only said it for your benefit. I've seen too many people waste four years in medical school. And I've seen way too many unhappy physicians, which in my opinion often ends up hurting patients.

-K

Well said. I think you raised a lot of good points in this post.

 

[waterski232002]

Agree with above...

The only thing I would add is that you do NOT need to sacrifice you entire life for medicine. Most physicians do have to do this, or they choose to do this, but not all. If you don't want to be on call, don't want to work 80 hr/wk, then there are options (granted they are few). Emergency Medicine is a perfect example of this. No call, avg work week is 40hrs, attending typically work 15 days/month with 15 days off. But regardless, you will still sacrifice your 20's slaving away in med school and residency!!!

But Krufne is definitely right about one thing... you must like medicine, of the payoff isn't worth it! You're not going to be saving lives and be raised up like a hero (it just becomes work--and it's seldom appreciated)... few people give you a pat-on-the-back, and your pay sucks given the fact that you'll be $150,000 in debt at age 30, with the juice still running!

 

[sirvandy]

Wow, thanks everyone for all the good responses. I will definitely get the book mentioned and thanks for the websites. As far as medicine being my true calling or not, I know that it is not my "passion" in life; my hobbies are that. I am a returning student, and I spent a few years after undergrad pursuing a variety of career options besides medicine. The hard truth I realized in the "real world" is that most people are not fortunate enough to have their cake and eat it too, as in, have a career that is ideal in all aspects. Unfortunately, my hobbies offer no viable carrer option for me. For example, take a person who loves to paint, or play baseball, or something. What are the realistic job opportunities they have with those interests? A babe-ruth baseball coach? A high-school art teacher? Ok, some people might be satisfied with that, if they LOVE those interests SO much as to sacrifice everything else they may want (money, house, respect, lifestyle, intellectual satisfaction, etc.). But most people would not. Medicine, law, accounting, and business, and maybe some others, offer many people a viable carrer that can provide a chance at the "American dream"- economic well being. I think that is perfectly understandable. Now, if you really dislike aspects of medicine or the path of getting there (premed, med school, residency), then it might not be worth it. But if you kinda like it, or can tolerate it well enough, and can get good grades, and can see yourself doing it as a career, then I say go for it! Why is competition so stiff to get into med school? Because so many people want to be around sick people and disease their whole lives? No- it is, quite frankly, due to things like money, job security, and prestige.

 

[doc05]

sirv - you raise some interesting points and are correct. just keep in mind that just about everything in medicine becomes routine, and hence, boring. the study of medicine is interesting because it is all new. eventually, reading chapter after chapter about one thing -- heart disease, shoulder surgery, whatever -- will become mundane and boring. spend some time shadowing a physician. you will eventually become bored, because the practice of medicine is boring. just keep that in mind.

 

[sirvandy]

Doc05, if that is true, then yes, that is a definite concern. I wonder if having hobbies outside of medicine, or perhaps supplementing a practicing career with some amount of research, could offset the boredom and repetition?

 

[tr]

Wow, thanks everyone for all the good responses. I will definitely get the book mentioned and thanks for the websites. As far as medicine being my true calling or not, I know that it is not my "passion" in life; my hobbies are that.... Unfortunately, my hobbies offer no viable career option for me... Medicine, law, accounting, and business, and maybe some others, offer many people a viable career that can provide a chance at the "American dream"- economic well being. I think that is perfectly understandable.

Dude, you're really barking up the wrong tree. Get out before you make a big mistake. If you want a stable job that will allow you to pursue your hobbies, why don't you go for accounting? That requires far less training and fewer work hours.

Medicine will plunge you into debt and take away your personal life for at least 7-8 years (med school and residency). And most docs continue to work hours that normal people would consider ridiculous, long after residency. As you noted, the average neurologist works 60 hours a week, and neurology is pretty middle-of-the-road as specialties go.

I've been told by multiple residents to 'get out while I can'. The *only* reason to do medicine is if you can't see yourself doing anything else. Otherwise, it probably isn't worth it.

 

[deltamed]

Dude, you're really barking up the wrong tree. Get out before you make a big mistake. If you want a stable job that will allow you to pursue your hobbies, why don't you go for accounting? That requires far less training and fewer work hours.

Medicine will plunge you into debt and take away your personal life for at least 7-8 years (med school and residency). And most docs continue to work hours that normal people would consider ridiculous, long after residency. As you noted, the average neurologist works 60 hours a week, and neurology is pretty middle-of-the-road as specialties go.

I've been told by multiple residents to 'get out while I can'. The *only* reason to do medicine is if you can't see yourself doing anything else. Otherwise, it probably isn't worth it.

I have news for you. Other careers where you make a good living people work just as hard.

Top law firm? 80 hours a week at least.
Investment banking? 100 hours a week easy.
After business school? You'll probably hit 70 hours at most places.

The truth is most of these professions you don't get to do science, which is why I went to medical school. It's true that the path is longer in medicine, and its probably true that from an economic standpoint some of these other options come out better in the end.

To say that medicine is "so much harder" is just wrong though. I personally haven't found medical school too taxing compared to my job before school, and I doubt residency is as grueling as some people like to say. Do it because you like the process, and also know there are worse things out there.

 

[Hudson]

I have news for you. Other careers where you make a good living people work just as hard.

Top law firm? 80 hours a week at least.
Investment banking? 100 hours a week easy.
After business school? You'll probably hit 70 hours at most places.

The truth is most of these professions you don't get to do science, which is why I went to medical school. It's true that the path is longer in medicine, and its probably true that from an economic standpoint some of these other options come out better in the end.

To say that medicine is "so much harder" is just wrong though. I personally haven't found medical school too taxing compared to my job before school, and I doubt residency is as grueling as some people like to say. Do it because you like the process, and also know there are worse things out there.

Agree with Delta med. You definitely can have a life during med school, and most residents have a life after internship. There are a ton of negative people who always think the grass is greener on the other side. I have missed out on very few things with my friends during med school. I go out multiple times a week, Go to almost all my alma mater's football games (out of town). Fish a ton, and still exercise etc., and have still done very well in med school. The larger limiting factor is financial since you are on student loans.

Medicine is grueling, do not go into it if you are a pansy. That being said to make the money in other fields that you end up making in medicine you either need to be lucky, or you will work as hard as most doctors. The big exception to this is some of the more hardcare surgical specialties, neurosurg, CT, and Trnsplnt, all who work more than most humans are capable of, but you do not have to be one if you don't want to.

The biggest thing being overlooked here is that medicine is by far the most REWARDING of the fields previously mentioned. These rewards are intangible and cannot be valued monetarily. Some do not find the practice of medicine rewarding and for them I bet it really isn't worth it, and I feel sorry for those people b/c they probably went into medicine for the wrong reasons in the first place.

When residents tell you to "get out while you can" you need to put things into perspective. There are a lot of anal retentive bitter MF's that we all picked out in our medschool classes during first year. They will always be that way and attempt to spread negativity. Residency, itself, is temporary and after that YOU have the FLEXIBILTY to CONTROL your own hours, something that Accountants, lawyers, people in business are NOT able to do. Good LUCK and do not make any decisions from advice you get on an anonymous message board. Make you own and follow your gut and you will probably end up alright. I like most others could not be happier with my decision to become a doctor.

 

[tr]

I have news for you. Other careers where you make a good living people work just as hard.

Top law firm? 80 hours a week at least.
Investment banking? 100 hours a week easy.
After business school? You'll probably hit 70 hours at most places.

Of course, which is why I mentioned accounting in my post. That's a job that does not require these types of hours. (But by the way, it's perfectly feasible to finish law school and then go work a 45-hour week for the gov't. Of course, the compensation is poorer than at a top law firm.)

You are specifically citing careers that also require significant time investments; but there are plenty of other options out there. The computer jockeys and engineers I know also pull down very reasonable money without working more than an 8-10 hour day. I'm just saying that for someone whose primary goal is to be economically comfortable without working too hard, medicine is a dumb choice.

To say that medicine is "so much harder" is just wrong though. I personally haven't found medical school too taxing compared to my job before school, and I doubt residency is as grueling as some people like to say.

All that depends. What was your job before med school? What year are you in med school? The first two years are cake, I agree. I worked harder in college. After that, well, it seems to get more difficult to skate.

Regarding residency, again, that depends on the residency. The fact that many hospitals are having a lot of trouble getting their residents under 80 (official) hours a week to comply with the new ACGME rules speaks volumes.

 

[tr]

Residency, itself, is temporary and after that YOU have the FLEXIBILTY to CONTROL your own hours, something that Accountants, lawyers, people in business are NOT able to do.

Um, that's only if you're going to be a dermatologist, pathologist, or radiologist. Most everybody else has to take call and like it.

 

[Finally M3]

I have news for you. Other careers where you make a good living people work just as hard.

Top law firm? 80 hours a week at least.
Investment banking? 100 hours a week easy.
After business school? You'll probably hit 70 hours at most places.
there.

Problem is, during residency you will be working the above hours and making 40K. I know 1st year I-bankers making 100K (including their bonus) at age 24 with advancement (and tripling salary) in three years time. My cousin was making 150K before he went to become a federal prosecutor, and was guaranteed a junior partner spot at his old firm in two-three years time.

Yes, you may catch up eventually, but you really have to love medicine because there are easier ways to make money.

 

[avgjoe]

To the OP, have you ever worked 80+ hours a week and still had more than enough time for all your hobbies? If not, then you may want to seriously consider that for at least 5-6 years (because many 3rd years and def during part of 4th year also you will have to be working that hard, plus residency of course) you will not be fully able to enjoy those hobbies you've listed. After that also, for at least a few years before you get a partnership in private practice, or trying to get established in aademics, you will also be working long hours and putting lots of effort into your career. Most of us who had tons of hobbies before med school have cut down a bit, by choice, as especially in 3rd/4th year, there simply are too many other things to do. Most people also end up keeping in touch with old friends, going out, etc less. this of course may not be for life, just for these few years, but still, keep it in mind.

I agree with the other posters, that if you're in it just for a stable job, seriously consider things like engineering or accounting, both of which take much less time to get a good job and much less hours and more flexible hours once you're in that actual job. The engineers I know are easily able to take a few hours off in the middle of the day for lunch, kid issues, haircuts, etc, and that's just not something that the average doc can count on until they're well into their career (if then).

 

[NinerNiner999]

There is a fair amount of negativity and disillusionment in this thread. Medicine is a front-loaded career. You pay your dues, put in your time, and work insane hours at the beginning (medical school, intern year) and things become increasingly easier after that. You acquire knowledge and confidence, which makes your job easier and more efficient, and your hours become less both due to better schedules and more efficient practices.

Medicine IS what you make of it. It is known to draw the anally-rententive, type A personalities who are obsessed with details and perfection. This makes average hours longer and causes burnout by those personality types because they don't know how to relax and put their work down for a while. As was mentioned before, you DO have the ability to make your own hours, avoid call, and even work part-time, earning well above average salaires in other fields. The best benefit is that, unlike businesses that leave you open for missed promotions, cut-throat tactics, and the potential for years behind a desk without substantial raises in salary, the field of medicine will always have consistent employment opporunities, and it is VERY easy to work for yourself without the man breathing down your neck.

To the OP - yes, your hobbies and outside interest will take a hit for 7-8 years, but it doesn't mean you have to stop them all together. The most important aspect of medical training is going into it determined to maintain a balance between your life and your career. Don't let school and residency consume you from the beginning, and keep your determination to focus on balance. Limit the hours you CHOOSE to study and you will become more efficient with your time. Keep this habit through residency and let efficiency be your friend. Please do not get discouraged by some of the other posters here. You know what makes you happy and if you can incorporate this into medicine, go for it. Anything is possible if you try...

 

[krufne01]

Since I am the trouble maker......

I am going into emergency medicine. Lifestyle was a factor for me in choosing it. But remember that most ED phys work nights for 1/2 of their shifts, deal with violent and abusive patients, and get sued up the yinyang. I'm choosing it because I want to work with all ages, I love the hunt of diagnosis, I can help those who have no payment mechanism, and I get to do med with lots of procedures. The lifestlye and the pay is a bonus. People who go into it for lifestyle and money burn out--that is why EM is known for burn out.

I have other hobbies. Heck, I 've done a 1/2 Iron man while in medical school. But I have also put in more 100 weeks than I can count. Find the balance and make the sacrifices where you can and you can keep you hobbies. But don't kid yourself that med doesn't require a time commitment.

As to your assertation that people go into medicine for money and social position: Things have changed. 10,000 less applicants now than 10 years ago. People with your mentality aren't coming into the field.

Now for some ethics...Is it ethical to take the trust and life of a patient into your hands with the attitude of 'I'll just get by so that I can have the socioeconomic rewards of medicine.' I despise that notion. You can do that as a businessman, but as a physician, take a hard look at your soul.

I believe that medicine is something bigger than the socioeconomic benefits--it must be. I care that all physicians do what is best for their patients. And so I am no longer asking you to examine yourself. I am telling you not to go into medicine. Medicine is not something you do because of as you say "i figure, why not" And for your own benefit, I'm telling you you will not be happy. Medicine is not what it was even ten years ago; ten years ago you could have gotten away with your attitude, but not today. So please, do yourself, and all of you future patients a favor, and find something else to do.

--K

 

[krufne01]

I have news for you. Other careers where you make a good living people work just as hard.

Top law firm? 80 hours a week at least.
Investment banking? 100 hours a week easy.
After business school? You'll probably hit 70 hours at most places.

Uh...You are making Six Figures though with the above three while you put in the hours and your training won't be more than 3 years.

 

[Tenesma]

delta med... thanks for enlightening us on those other fields... but i would argue that they have the luxury of not having to deal with
1) life and death situations on a daily (sometimes hourly) basis
2) the constant threat of litigation
3) the possibility of communicating HIV or HEPC from a needlestick, etc...

 

[avgjoe]

Now for some ethics...Is it ethical to take the trust and life of a patient into your hands with the attitude of 'I'll just get by so that I can have the socioeconomic rewards of medicine.' I despise that notion. You can do that as a businessman, but as a physician, take a hard look at your soul.
I believe that medicine is something bigger than the socioeconomic benefits--it must be. I care that all physicians do what is best for their patients. And so I am no longer asking you to examine yourself.
--K

right on krufne!

 

[Jeff05]

i know few computer jockeys or engineers (my father has a master's in engineering with 20 years experience and has the highest paying engineering position in his company makes about 120 with bonuses (which is astounding for the current market). and works about 60 hours/wk) that have ROCK SOLID job security and that work 50 hours a week and are guaranteed to make over 150k.

here's an incomplete list of medicine jobs that offer less than 50 hour work weeks and make MORE than 150k.
1. radiology (yea, you can work 60 hours a week and make 350. but you can work 40 and make your 180)
2. anesthesiology, pain management
3. ENT
4. Emergency for 36 hour/wk most pull in about 190k
5. derm - obviously
6. ophtho
7. endocrine, allergy,


i know plenty of mommies that do peds part time - 25 hour/wk or so and make 70k/yr. that's a nice chunk of change for an 8-1 gig.

so unless you're a wall street genius or win the lottery, medicine is awesome for making a great living and having a great life.

Of course, which is why I mentioned accounting in my post. That's a job that does not require these types of hours. (But by the way, it's perfectly feasible to finish law school and then go work a 45-hour week for the gov't. Of course, the compensation is poorer than at a top law firm.)

You are specifically citing careers that also require significant time investments; but there are plenty of other options out there. The computer jockeys and engineers I know also pull down very reasonable money without working more than an 8-10 hour day. I'm just saying that for someone whose primary goal is to be economically comfortable without working too hard, medicine is a dumb choice.



All that depends. What was your job before med school? What year are you in med school? The first two years are cake, I agree. I worked harder in college. After that, well, it seems to get more difficult to skate.

Regarding residency, again, that depends on the residency. The fact that many hospitals are having a lot of trouble getting their residents under 80 (official) hours a week to comply with the new ACGME rules speaks volumes.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

humans are not altruistic by nature. i'm sure that to some extent selfish motives figure into our career plans. back when i was a premed, i prescribed to the idealism regarding medicine (i.e., god forbid we talk about money, lifestyle, or prestige but let's just talk about how we love helping people and making the world a better place...oh i love helping old people...kids are so cute...) but now i understand where the OP is coming from. initially, my instinct was to respond in a condescending manner to the OP but there ARE other reasons to pursue a career in medicine besides all this feelgood stuff that we have to say to get into medschool.

 

[Tenesma]

actually jeff05 - you are forgetting the power of compounding and liquidity....

while yes, some medical specialties offer a better lifestyle with good income compared to most professional degrees - you are forgetting the opportunity cost of not creating income for 4 years of med school and 4-7 years of residency.... In fact, a mechanic who starts at the age of 19 can accumulate more money than a neurosurgeon can until the age of 37!!!!

 

[krufne01]

but there ARE other reasons to pursue a career in medicine besides all this feelgood stuff that we have to say to get into medschool.

Below are the things I consider reasons for practicing medicine. I agree andy that junk you say at interviews are the whole deal. Job stability was a major reason I chose medicine--but you still absolutely have to have other elements. So even if pay and lifestyle are high on your list, you better have the following or you are likely to be miserable and your patients will likely suffer.

Reasons for going into medschool.....

Must haves for clinical: desire to help people, compassion for patients
Other good reasons for clinical: Desire to teach people about the human condition, passion for human phys/anatomy, filling a niche, (and many more I am sure)

Lifestyle and job security can be important (they were for me too), but if you don't have these--as suggested by the 'I don't like business so why not medicine attitude'--then you do not belong in medicine (for your own good and for the good of the profession).

--K

 

[avgjoe]

humans are not altruistic by nature. i'm sure that to some extent selfish motives figure into our career plans. initially, my instinct was to respond in a condescending manner to the OP but there ARE other reasons to pursue a career in medicine besides all this feelgood stuff that we have to say to get into medschool.

i feel like the key there is that 'to some extent' selfish motives figure. In choosing which specialty, those things do figure- again only to some extent. But to pursue a career in medicine as a whole, I really feel like those who are empathetic and altruistic in nature should be the ones who go into it - those who definitely do believe the feelgood stuff that we said not just to get in but because we do feel that way, and then on top of that if we also start thinking about our families and how to support them and all that that's okay. but our initial reason i really believe should be that we want to help others in need. if i were a patient i'd want someone with that kind of empathy, so those are the kind of people i would encourage to go into our field.

 

[Museless]

In fact, a mechanic who starts at the age of 19 can accumulate more money than a neurosurgeon can until the age of 37!!!!

Sure, I'll buy that. But what happens at age 37? 38? 39? I'm sure the neurosurgeon passes the mechanic soon enough, and laps him again a few years later.

 

[cytoborg]

As far as medicine being my true calling or not, I know that it is not my "passion" in life; my hobbies are that. I am a returning student, and I spent a few years after undergrad pursuing a variety of career options besides medicine. The hard truth I realized in the "real world" is that most people are not fortunate enough to have their cake and eat it too, as in, have a career that is ideal in all aspects. Unfortunately, my hobbies offer no viable carrer option for me. For example, take a person who loves to paint, or play baseball, or something. What are the realistic job opportunities they have with those interests? A babe-ruth baseball coach? A high-school art teacher? Ok, some people might be satisfied with that, if they LOVE those interests SO much as to sacrifice everything else they may want (money, house, respect, lifestyle, intellectual satisfaction, etc.). But most people would not. Medicine, law, accounting, and business, and maybe some others, offer many people a viable carrer that can provide a chance at the "American dream"- economic well being. I think that is perfectly understandable. Now, if you really dislike aspects of medicine or the path of getting there (premed, med school, residency), then it might not be worth it.

I was, and am, passionate about medicine and am willing to work very hard at it, but I have a couple of other "passions" far afield from medicine that I have pursued in quite some depth, that don't make feasible careers. Life wouldn't be worth living if I couldn't do those things. I feel lucky to have found a "real job" that not only pays the bills, but that I also feel passionate about from a philosophic standpoint, and that I actually enjoy spending 50 or 60 hrs a week doing. I wholeheartedly agree with the other posters who are saying that you need to have a high level of committment/passion for medicine to survive it and enjoy it - that is absolutely true. But at the same time, knowing that medicine is not the be-all and end-all of the universe will keep you balanced and keep you from getting disilusioned, cynical and burned out. After almost 4 years of medical school, I still love the field despite its challenges and frustrations...and I'm glad to know that there are also other things in life that make me happy.

Medicine is indeed like other jobs in that it has plenty of drudgery, frustrations, and challenges...that's why people get paid to do it (or they would all be doing it for free ). But it does have its own unique challenges, and some people would call it a "calling" that is not everyone, so my advice to you is make sure you learn a lot about the field beforehand (first-hand experience) to know that you'll enjoy it and stay committed to it. Good luck to you.