quality of education

[vincentyim]

which one has the best quality of medical education, UK or US?

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[leorl]

Vincent, both have excellent universities. The issue isn't that one is better than the other, since it's simply not true. You can't really make a comparison since they're run completely differently. Both produce competent doctors. The issue is more where you want to practice. If you want to stay in the UK to practice, go to school in the UK. The same advice goes for US schools, but the issues on this board usually deal with US students who choose for whatever reason to study abroad.

 

[Stephen Ewen]

My opinion is that it is best to learn medicine over a longer period than a short period.

 

[IRON_DUKE]

is medicine really that different ?

I mean .....all doctors more or less speak the same lingo . Some have acess to better tech. than others , but I mean hey .......if you break a bone say in china....................its a broke bone anywhere in the world .

 

[Devdas]

MOX said •••quote:•••if you break a bone say in china ......its a broke bone anywhere in the world ••••It is not completely true!

Ethiopia :Sorry!You have to be in the bed for two months!

Ireland :You cannot go to the pub for one month
Bone healing takes one month!

India : Doc!I can't work for 4 months with this broken bone..I want a medical certicate for my work!I am trying some Ayurvedic treatment to cure my bone disease!

China Let me try some acupuncture if it does not work let me try something else..it could take 5 months to heal

USA
Your broken bone can be fixed tonight!You can run the Boston Marathon next week!

There is difference in Medicine! :wink:

 

[Hypersomniac]

hey that's great insight madanraj! <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />

While there may be little variation in the content of instruction we all receive, the difference lies in how we apply that knowledge. Applicaton of that knowledge undoubtedly will be influenced by each country's culture and financial state.

So it goes back to what leorl said, it is best to study where you intend to practice. And for us who don't or can't, it's going to be a tougher circuit to drive.

 

[Devdas]

Hypersomniac said •••quote:•••hey that's great insight madanraj! <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> ••••People in the lounge think that I don't have an insight!

I think there is a difference in the Intelligent Quotient of people visiting different sections of the SDN!

 

[Devdas]

I have seen both 'Quantity' and the 'Quality' of Medical Education.

I do not know about other countries.Compared to US and UK...India has the "Quantity" of education.Medical students of India read most of the Standard textbooks of UK curriculum as a medical undergraduate.They even memorize 'Gray's anatomy' and Davidson textbook of Medicine (even Harrison).British medical grads study those books only for the postgrad curriculum.

American medical grads love reading only hand books and it is cool to have a pocket book with all facts.American curriculum concentrates more on practical medicine.I always wondered how residents find time to read books during the busy residency period?

I have heard that 'Senior citizens' of medical community commenting Britain was once the "Mecca of Medical Knowledge" not anymore.

I think United states is currently the leader of Medicine and has the 'Quality' of medical knowledge.Any disagreement?

 

[jue]

hi madanraj, i beg to differ with you on the last point that you made, while it is true that the U.S has the "quality" of education i don't think that she is necessarily the leader of medicine. i think that there are many english and non-english speaking countries that contribute to the growth of medicine, unfortunately/fortunately we get to read about the results of their research in medical books most of which are american(since there is a growing trend worldwide to identify with things american).IMO while it is true that the U.S does offer quality education in majority of it's institutions, it is also true that there are many other countries in the world such as france, germany, south africa, australia and yes even the UK, just to mention a few, that offer education that is on par with and in some instances superior to that offered at U.S institutions. i think that it is important for us to realise that while the U.S can and does produce world class doctors, she doesn't hold a monopoly on quality education.

 

[leorl]

I agree with Jue. In basic medical training, the US does not have superiority in quality of medical training. Everyone around the world is pretty much taught the same material and there's a certain standard all students have to reach.

What you might be thinking of might have more relevance in residency and post-residency years. Perhaps you think the US has a better quality because of advanced technology, and in this respect the US now have more mastery with knowledge and equipment. However, this is mechanical only. What researchers find in terms of biomedical science is shared with the world and in turn affects education world wide, the major countries are not going to be seriously lacking for anything in terms of subject material. US medical education should not be seen as superior to other major nations, especially ones in the UK or that were part of the UK at one time.

The "leader" position the US holds comes about mainly because it has the resources for developing advanced technology and funding research. Other developed countries do as well, we just might have more money

 

[robin1]

•••quote:••• Ethiopia :Sorry!You have to be in the bed for two months!

Ireland :You cannot go to the pub for one month
Bone healing takes one month!

India : Doc!I can't work for 4 months with this broken bone..I want a medical certicate for my work!I am trying some Ayurvedic treatment to cure my bone disease!

China Let me try some acupuncture if it does not work let me try something else..it could take 5 months to heal

USA
Your broken bone can be fixed tonight!You can run the Boston Marathon next week! ••••No offense, but I fail to see the 'insight' in these remarks. I understand the point you were trying to make, but your innacurate descriptions present differences in health care systems, NOT medicine as an individual entity. (Not to mention the fact that the sterotypes you presented were slightly offensive....i.e. not all Irish drink at a pub all day nor do the Chinese believe acupuncture will heal broken bones) What exactly do they teach you about American medicine in India? As far as I am concerned US medicine is some of the best in the world, but if people from India think we can literally bring back the dead then you are being foolish by putting American medicine on a completely unrealistic pedestal. Given even a basic level of medical care, a simple fracture will take the same time to heal in just about any country. But taking your example one step further, how will the patient with a complex fracture and no health insurance fare in the US? I can guarantee he won't be running any marathon anytime soon....

I would also echo the comments of leorl and jue. No country, including the US, can claim to be the "mecca of medical knowledge." Knowledge is universal, but what's more important is how it's applied.

I'll end with this.....the last time an unofficial ranking was carried out as to the best medical school in the world it wasn't a US institution but rather the Marie Curie medical school in France that came out on top.

Also, does my disagreeing with you mean that I have a low intelligence quotient?

 

[leorl]

Yes, I forgot the ranking. It came out last summer I believe, but I don't have any links for it, I wish I knew where I could find it. France came out #1. US came out #17 behind nearly all the European schools. But I don't think this was for education, I believe it was for satisfaction and issues dealing with the whole medical system in each respective nation.

 

[robin1]

Hi leorl,

I'm not sure if we're referring to the same thing with respect to the rankings. I know last summer the WHO put out a list of the best health care systems in the world and France came out #1, but I was writing about something else.

Some years back an unofficial study was done to see which was the best medical school in the world. I'm not sure of the exact methods used (again this was unofficial so I wouldn't take it too seriously), but anyway the Marie Curie Institute in France came out as the winner for providing the best medical education. I don't know how accurate this was, but I put it down just to show that there are medical schools in the world that are respected as being as good or sometimes better than their counterparts in the US. I think US schools are great, but the ethnocentric idea that they 'stand alone' in the world is ridiculous. I've come to expect this type of thinking here within the US, but I'm a bit surprized to see that it's spreading.....

 

[leorl]

robin, thanks for the clarification. I'd like to see THAT study too. And I definitely agree with you on the "ethnocentric" thinking people in the US have, and the US med community superiority complex in general (although you'll find plenty of people who believe the same way we do). It is sad if it is spreading, but on the other hand, I don't think it is? I think people are becoming more respectful of certain foreign med schools, but in terms of general mentality, people in this country assume US is always the best at everything. And then some past threads that have appeared which accuse those of wanting to study abroad as being unpatriotic or settling for worse education implying that we can't be just as competent students are quite infuriating.

 

[Thewonderer]

It is difficult to criticize "ethnocentric" Americanism because that ethnocentricism is more rampant in other parts of the world than in the US. You go to Oxford and ask an undergrad to name US schools he or she has heard of and names such as Harvard, MIT, Yale, Stanford, UCLA and uhm....? And considering that US has a many times more colleges/universities than UK, that an US person can name Oxford and Cambridge is VERY good in comparison.

This is no defense of ethnocentricism. But I am merely pointing it out that it is difficult to critize Americans for it simply because other nationales are probably worse in this aspect.

 

[leorl]

I'm not exactly sure of the analogy. If UK students can name more US schools while US students can only name like 2, does that not mean UK students are less "ethnocentric" because they are more aware of schools/events outside their own country? I think "ethnocentric" might be the wrong choice of word, but can't think of a replacement at the moment. And most UK students can name more than the standard Ivies as well, places like Univ. Michigan, Duke, Georgetown etc. are known to them too, at least among my friends who are somewhat geographically challenged

I don't think anyone said that we didn't expect other nationals to be ethnocentric. Of course everyone is to some extent, that just comes with pride of your country's institutions. There's just a difference between pride and adamant,ignorant and insulting opinion though, and then perpetuating it based on biased opinion. The latter is extreme but has happened before. I don't think that other nationals are more guilty of it than Americans. For instance, you don't hear Irish or UK medical school students saying that they have so much better medical education than US students and not recognizing US reputation. Well, maybe that's a bad example because US can be recognized as having superiority. But you don't hear Irish, UK or Australians saying it about each other either.

 

[Hypersomniac]

So what do you think now, vincentyim? :wink:

 

[vincentyim]

Obviously, i think the british med schools are better than Americans, At least, it is a five-years course. And it's only 4 years in US. Maybe the technology in US is better. But the medical tradition and knowledge is better in Britain. And i estimate studying in Uk is a better choice, the british schools welcome international students, but in US, only a few private schools offer courses to them, the reputation is excellent in UK.

 

[leorl]

On one hand I do like the longer time course. I know some people do choose UK for this reason, saying that it offers more clinical time than US schools, which help them on the boards.

However, I think it should be explained that while you jump right into medical school from secondary school, US students must complete 4 years of undergraduate first. And while any major(s) may be chosen, every student intending to go on to medical school must take certain basic science classes. These classes amount to your 1st two years of pre-clinical years. Why US students enter into a 5 year program and not 4 is because some UK/Irish schools also start entering 2nd year students into clinical modules. Often times, pre-medical students choose a major which goes beyond what is necessary in med school, say...biology majors. They go into med school with a very deep knowledge base often including anatomy, immunology, basic biochemistry, which is then solidified and added to in med school, versus a UK 5-6 year program where everything is thrown at you at once. So I guess you can look at it as some pre-clinical material being covered prior to med school, and in this respect...I don't necessarily agree that the longer you're in school (i.e. 5-6 yr. program vs. 4 year programs) give you any better a foundation and are better. Longer programs might give you a bit more experience in a clinical setting. What I described above may also be a reason UK transfers to mid-school US programs don't happen.

And btw, not many UK med schools offer places to international students or have programs that are suitable for us. One of the major reasons I'm not applying UK.

 

[srikumaran]

hi,
i'm still new, coming from a third world country and getting into the one of the finest medical colleges such as in uk or us is very expensive.
So i tried russia...where does russia stand in that few best medical unversities/?what it's ranking?Curently i'm working in my home country as a radiographer and planned to presue even further to do medicine in ukraine ...that's Crimea State Medical University one of the well known there.. any info on this?
anyone?

 

[Stephen Ewen]

srikumaran,

Royal College of Surgeons, Ireland, has a special program for Malaysians. I don't recall all the details, but search for the RCSI website and you will find the details on it.

SE