Question about HPSP and residency choices

[WholeLottaGame7]

Hey everybody,

I was just wondering if anybody had any information on how residency matches work in the AF. Specifically, does the AF have quotas for certain residencies? I've been told by a current HPSP who is in residency that there are, and I've read one post on here that seems to indicate that there are (i.e. we have X number of AF residency slots, Y number of civilian deferrments, and Z number of applicants). Therefore, Z-(X+Y) applicants end up in another residency or GMO/flight doc slot.

However, the recruiter keeps swearing up and down that there are no such things as quotas for residency positions (or GMOs/flight docs), and that if 100 people wanted to do general surgery (ha!) and could find AF/civilian matches, then they would be allowed to do it. Now this seems pretty ludicrous to me, but I repeatedly asked this direct question over and over and they swear by it. I even asked them to send me some paperwork that has this in writing, though I'm expecting something full of legalese BS.

Anyway, I knew going into this process that they would be trying to sell this pretty hard and probably not give me the straight info, but straight up lying to my face would be pretty detrimental to my perception of military recruiting, and I come from a military family.

So, any thoughts? Any current MS4's out there going currently going through the process with any insight? Thanks for all your help.

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[MoosePilot]

Hey everybody,

I was just wondering if anybody had any information on how residency matches work in the AF. Specifically, does the AF have quotas for certain residencies? I've been told by a current HPSP who is in residency that there are, and I've read one post on here that seems to indicate that there are (i.e. we have X number of AF residency slots, Y number of civilian deferrments, and Z number of applicants). Therefore, Z-(X+Y) applicants end up in another residency or GMO/flight doc slot.

However, the recruiter keeps swearing up and down that there are no such things as quotas for residency positions (or GMOs/flight docs), and that if 100 people wanted to do general surgery (ha!) and could find AF/civilian matches, then they would be allowed to do it. Now this seems pretty ludicrous to me, but I repeatedly asked this direct question over and over and they swear by it. I even asked them to send me some paperwork that has this in writing, though I'm expecting something full of legalese BS.

Anyway, I knew going into this process that they would be trying to sell this pretty hard and probably not give me the straight info, but straight up lying to my face would be pretty detrimental to my perception of military recruiting, and I come from a military family.

So, any thoughts? Any current MS4's out there going currently going through the process with any insight? Thanks for all your help.

Do you really think the Air Force is going to do anything that would totally screw up their manning picture like that? What would they do with 100 general surgeons of equal experience and the loss of the normal mix (mostly flight surgeons, FPs, and pediatricians). I broke the numbers down from last year's almanac and I think you shouldn't go into AF medicine if you're not willing to do one of those three, since they're the top three med jobs in the AF IIRC.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

I know, and it seems only logical. Plus, from my own experience as a military brat with a dad in the medical field, the AF seems to be making a concerted push towards outpatient and primary care, which at this juncture in time I'm not leaning towards.

I just thought I'd ask because I try to give people the benefit of the doubt; so I had to consider that what the recruiter was trying to tell me could actually be true, as improbable as it is.

I can only hope that they are simply uninformed and not lying to my face. Even still, I think they would be better off just telling it to you straight and not pulling any punches: "Listen, we're moving towards a smaller, clinic-oriented style of medicine in the AF. We need lots of peds/FP/flight surgeons. Normally, these types of positions would take years before you could pay off your debt, we're offering you an alternative." Not suck in wanna-be OB/GYNs or anesthesiologists or pathologists and stick them in a slot that will foster anger and resentment.

Anyway, just my thoughts. Still interested in hearing from a 4th year if there are any out there.

 

[Galo]

Recruiters are not only misinformed, but they have quotas to fill as well, and will tell you what you want to hear.

THere is no question that you may not get what you want, as you will need to remember this for the rest of your military enslavement: "the needs of the AF come first"

Try to be at the top of your class in order to get what you want. If you've been on this forum long, as it appears you have been, you should be seeing a grim future for military medicine.

Good luck

Galo

 

[DD214_DOC]

So just don't apply for anything you don't want. I don't think they can force you into a specialty.

If nothing else, just GMO your payback and do your res when you get out.

 

[mitchconnie]

However, the recruiter keeps swearing up and down that there are no such things as quotas for residency positions (or GMOs/flight docs), and that if 100 people wanted to do general surgery (ha!) and could find AF/civilian matches, then they would be allowed to do it. Now this seems pretty ludicrous to me, but I repeatedly asked this direct question over and over and they swear by it. I even asked them to send me some paperwork that has this in writing, though I'm expecting something full of legalese BS.

This is just gross misinformation—100% wrong. Every year, sometime in the summer, the services come out with their projections of which specialties will be needed in the next few years (called the Integrated Forecast Board in the AF). It determines PRECISELY the number of people who will be allowed to start training in a given specialty. There is virtually never ANY deviation from the IFB. If there are more people wanting to start general surgery residency than the AF needs (based on the IFB), then several people will be forced into GMO/flight surgery tours. This is an incontrovertible fact.

In general surgery, there have recently been less applicants than the projected need, and forced GMO tours have not been very common, but there is NO WAY to guarantee that this will continue.

Run away quickly from whatever recruiter gave you that information. Or ask him to show you the latest Integrated Forecast Board results. Compare that to the latest AF match results. There will not be a single case where more people were allowed to start training in a given specialty than the IFB projected.

 

[Mirror Form]

So just don't apply for anything you don't want. I don't think they can force you into a specialty.

If nothing else, just GMO your payback and do your res when you get out.

That's not a bad way to go IF you're planning on going into a select number of fields: PMR, psych, ophtho, rads, path, derm, etc. However, that would be a disaster for most fields such as internal medicine, gen surg, pediatrics, ortho, neurosurg, ob-gyn, etc.

Bascially, there is no way that you could be a pgy-2 in most civilian residencies after having done four years as a gmo. I imagine that you'd have to repeat your internship. Aside from the obvious disadvantages to that route, you'd be at another huge disadvantage b/c any program that accepted you would lose over a hundred thousand bucks in medicaire funding. So compared to traditional applicants, you'd be at an enormous disadvantage when applying to residency.

 

[NJEMT1]

Aside from the obvious disadvantages to that route, you'd be at another huge disadvantage b/c any program that accepted you would lose over a hundred thousand bucks in medicaire funding. So compared to traditional applicants, you'd be at an enormous disadvantage when applying to residency.

Could you please explain how this works? What funding are you referring to and why would they lose it?

 

[Mirror Form]

Could you please explain how this works? What funding are you referring to and why would they lose it?

Hospitals get well over $100,000 / yr funding from medicare for each intern and resident that they train (no, all these hospitals don't just train residents out of the goodness of their hearts). However, they'll only keep paying for the time period that it's supposed to take you to finish training in that field (eg, they'll pay for three years for IM slots, 5 years for gen surg slots, etc). So, if you use up one of those years of funding while a military internship, then you won't get that year of funding back if you start training again.

But even so, I couldn't imagine repeating a year as bad as internship anyway. More likely, if you do a GMO you wouldn't want to repeat internship. And therefore you're options would be limited to the fields that wouldn't require you to repeat it.

 

[NJEMT1]

Thanks for clearing that up for me!