question about military services and its benefits after dental school

[SNOZBERRIES]

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[marinefish]

When to apply - as soon as you decide you want to go the military route and have an acceptance letter in hand. Even if the branch of the military you desire to apply with doesn't have any scholarships available, your package can go to the selection board and once OCT 1st rolls around, you can be granted a scholarship. That is how I got mine this past year. Once I determined I wanted the Navy HSCP scholarship, there were none available. So, once OCT 1st came around and the HSCP was available, I got the call stating I had the scholarship. A few days later I signed the paperwork.

NAVY DDS 2010,
so, if you accepted the scholarship after OCT 1st, does that mean it took effect the following semester (spring semester)? was it effective immediately? or did it not take effect until the start of the next year and so you were responsible for coming up with the money to pay for that first year of school? after OCT 1st, does it become a 3 year scholarship or still 4? basically, if you are a first year dental student and accept the scholarhip after OCT 1st, when does it take effect? thanks.

 

[jkm49]

Which Air Force AEGD programs are considered "good". Are there any that you try to avoid? How likely are you to get your top choice?

 

[marinefish]

Thanks NAVY DDS 2010. I, as well as many of the other readers of this forum, truly appreciate all of your very helpful information.

 

[dentalOH]

The application can be submitted, but in order for the file to be sent to the board your file must be complete which includes having been accepted into a program. In my case, I was already attending school for almost 2 months before I sent in the application, so the letter was pretty much pointless then. Now, there are always circumstances where exceptions are made. I was supposed to have two interviews, but that never happened.

For the Army, you can submit your application and be approved for the HPSP before receiving acceptance into a dental school. The Army has automatic acceptance if you have a cumulative GPA of 3.5 or higher, a DAT of 19 or higher, you meet all other requirements (ie. physical, security check, etc.,) and there are still scholarships available. Instead of submitting your acceptance letter with your packet, you submit a memorandum listing the dental schools to which you have applied. If you haven't been accepted to dental school by August 1st, the scholarship is withdrawn.

AR 601-105

 

[BQuad]

Before you decide to turn down an AEGD, ponder this...

How many ortho cases did you complete in dental school? I did eight start to finish in my AEGD.

How many endo retreats/apical surgeries? I did about 15.

How many IV sedation/3rd molar cases? I did 86 (only the AF credentials AEGD residents in IV sed).

How many connective tissue grafts? I did 8.

How many implants? I did 10.

How many CERAC restorations, open flap curettage with apically positioned flaps, frenectomies, tori removals, full anterior cosmetic cases, etc..?

How many TRULY medically compromised patients, head/neck cancer patients, pre-cardiac surgery clearance extractions, reduced fractures, major space infections, etc., etc. ?

Sorry, I'm a bit late in responding, I just joined the forum. I went through the Army's AEGD at Fort Lewis and while the program was great and I learned a lot, we did not get to do anywhere near as much as you did in the AF. No full ortho cases, a couple apicos and retreats, no IV sed, no implants, a couple tissue grafts, one over denture, a few crown lengthenings.

So look at what the program in your service offers before committing any more time.

 

[BQuad]

On the retention bonus pay tables, some of the lower listings, ie, general dentist, there is (ACP - advanced clinical practice) in parentheses. Does anyone know what this means?

ACP is a new program that the Army started this year. The ACP program has a list of requirements that need to be completed after completing the AEGD 1-year. It's a long list that includes clinical experience and military experience, like getting your Expert Field Medical Badge and going to the Combat Casualty Care Course. The advisers on the program expect it to take about 2 years after the AEGD program to meet all the requirements. Once you have completed those it allows junior officers to be eligible for a multi-year bonus.

 

[tiodrew]

I would also like this confirmed...if we're forced to apply and then forced to accept, that extra year would be a bit of a turn-off for me as well. I'm a bit of an older applicant too (26). My recruiter told me that "they highly recommend doing that program," but I sensed a little hesitation as if he wasn't giving me the whole story.
Another Q...I heard that the AF is planning on implementing something soon where all 4 year applicants to the AF that didn't receive the scholarship will automatically be granted the 3-year. This means they wouldn't need to go through the application process again. Can anyone else confirm is this has been implemented or is still in the works?

I can tell you what my recruiter told me about the AEGD. "The AF requires it, thus making your payback 5 years". This was a turn off for me too, but I still might do it. On a positive note, he said an AEGD would give me the equivalent of 7 years experience in just one year.

 

[shamrock2006]

at this point and time it is not required. I have a friend who just graduated dschool..she went on the 3 yr scholarship.. she had to apply, got accepted to her first choice of residency..but she declined it. So no they do not make you.

 

[KOM]

I finally heard that I'll be receiving the 3-year scholarship. I'm guessing if your school has summer sessions (as mine does) they will also pay for that tuition as well correct?

 

[SanOnofre2002]

I'm still a bit unsure about the process of entering a specialty after school. Assuming you're a top notch student and competitive to get a specialty program, is the Navy going to kill your plan b/c they need you as a GP? This link http://www.nomi.med.navy.mil/pages/nmetc/Dentalliaison.htm
says it's rare and only 5 out of 70 HPSP students were permitted to defer to a residency. Do you think that's b/c only 5 out of 70 were accepted into one or were some some poor sods denied their specialty?

 

[BQuad]

I know in the Army it would be rare to be able to defer in order to do a civilian specialty program, Navy I don't know about but I would assume it is the same. Both Services are short on general dentists right now so they want you on board as soon as possible. On the other hand, if you want to specialize in a field that they are having trouble filling, they may be willing to let you do the residency on your own. If you want to do ortho or endo you probably won't have much luck, but if you are more interested in oral surgery or perio you may have a better chance.

It never hurts to ask in the military, just understand that everything is based on the needs of the military and those needs aren't always the same as your own.

 

[jim85213]

I can tell you what my recruiter told me about the AEGD. "The AF requires it, thus making your payback 5 years". This was a turn off for me too, but I still might do it. On a positive note, he said an AEGD would give me the equivalent of 7 years experience in just one year.

Does that mean five years after the AEGD?

 

[SNOZBERRIES]

Does that mean five years after the AEGD?

No. It would be four years after the AEGD for a four year scholarship.

The AF and probably Army and Navy are year for year with no less than three years of active duty pay back. If you receive a three year scholarship it will be a three year pay back. The same with a four year scholarship. Four for four.

Now days, the residency does not count as a payback year. So if you get a four year and do the AEGD-1, you will still owe four years afterward. If you get a three year, you will owe three afterward.

Still not a bad deal for the education you receive. Plus $150K/5 years is still some good money. Five years after graduation, no student loans and tons of experience.

 

[BQuad]

Five years after graduation, no student loans and tons of experience.

One other consideration is that, depending on where you are currently licensed, and where you want to practice when you get out, 5 years puts you into the window for reciprocity or licensure by credentials.

 

[toothfairy2]

Dear Snozberries or anyone who might know,

I'm a D4 student AF HPSP, scheduled to have an interview with an AEGD director in 2 wks.

How is the AF AEGD-2 differ from the AEGD-1 in terms of cases, program structure, etc?
There is only one base that offers the AEGD-2: that is, Lackland AFB. About how many residents do they accept?

I'm contemplating on applying for either an AEGD-1 or -2, but not totally sure of the latter. I do know that I would like to do at least an AEGD-1, however. In that case, which base would you recommend as the best/better AEGD-1 locations?

Please advise. Thank you so much in advance.
Toothfairy

The answer is YES you have to apply for the AEGD-1 program. The follow-on is NO you don't have to accept it. You would be a fool not to. The AEGD-1 program will be the best educational year you have ever had. Hands down. I would do it again in a heart beat. You will do more in one year of an AEGD than you would if dental school lasted a decade. Even if you decide not to make the military a career (most don't), you will be more marketable than anyone heading out to private practice from dental school, ie. more marketable. Plus, what residency pays their AEGD's $65K/year.

Before you decide to turn down an AEGD, ponder this...

How many ortho cases did you complete in dental school? I did eight start to finish in my AEGD.

How many endo retreats/apical surgeries? I did about 15.

How many IV sedation/3rd molar cases? I did 86 (only the AF credentials AEGD residents in IV sed).

How many connective tissue grafts? I did 8.

How many implants? I did 10.

How many CERAC restorations, open flap curettage with apically positioned flaps, frenectomies, tori removals, full anterior cosmetic cases, etc..?

How many TRULY medically compromised patients, head/neck cancer patients, pre-cardiac surgery clearance extractions, reduced fractures, major space infections, etc., etc. ?

You get the point. Even if you decide you don't like the endo, perio, ortho, etc. at least you will have clinical experience. This will only help the GP.
If you are thinking of specializing, you will know really quick if you truly want to apply. I thought I wanted to do pedo, now I'm starting OMS. Go figure.

If you do not do an AEGD-1 you will probably end up on an "amalgam line". You will to do all the full cuspal coverage amalgams you can handle, more exams than you have mirrors, and an occasional crown. The military "credentials" their dentists. This means you can only do what the credentialing board says you can do. Without the AEGD, its not much.

2. Your chances of getting into a specialty residency right out of dental school are pretty much non existent. I can only speak for the AF, but there were only a few who were accepted to a specialty out of school. You may be able to get into perio or pros, but other than that you have no chance. There is a chance to get into OMS, but you will have to spend one year as a general dentist at either Travis or Lackland. Why not spend that year in an AEGD.

I had a lot of friends doing AEGDs all over the country in the civilian world. with the exception of maybe Colorado's (IV and 3rds), no one even came close. The location of the AEGD is key. Ask the residency directors, not the recruiter, what their program offers. They will talk to you. They like that kind of stuff. Also, interview in person.

It may not be for everyone, but there are a whole lot of pluses.

 

[SNOZBERRIES]

Dear Snozberries or anyone who might know,

I'm a D4 student AF HPSP, scheduled to have an interview with an AEGD director in 2 wks.

How is the AF AEGD-2 differ from the AEGD-1 in terms of cases, program structure, etc?
There is only one base that offers the AEGD-2: that is, Lackland AFB. About how many residents do they accept?

I'm contemplating on applying for either an AEGD-1 or -2, but not totally sure of the latter. I do know that I would like to do at least an AEGD-1, however. In that case, which base would you recommend as the best/better AEGD-1 locations?

Please advise. Thank you so much in advance.
Toothfairy

Since I did not complete the AEGD-2, I can only speak from what my residency directors and other O-6s have said. The AEGD-2 is definitly comprehensive. It is a two year residency consisting of all aspects of dentistry. They do all the bread and butter stuff plus tons of IV 3rds, implants (both placing and restoring), a good number of ortho cases start to finish, and alot more "specialty" cases of endo, pros, and perio.

It would be extremely difficult to get into the AEGD-2 out of dental school. I know a guy who was an AF Academy grad, class president, great grades, and a guaranteed 20 year guy who didn't get in. He did the AEGD-1 first. I don't know if he applied for the two year yet. You could always apply for the AEGD-2 and 1. What's the worse they could do, say no. I think everyone who does the AEGD-2 did the 1 first.

As far as the best bases do to the AEGD-1. I would call each of the programs and ask what their program offers. Certain specialists like ortho and pedo are not at every base. Who-is-where changes so frequently, I could not accuratly tell you. I would ask each director what their program offers, and see what fits with your goals.

 

[toothfairy2]

Dear AF Dentites,

I'm preparing for my AEGD-1 interview.

Might you have any pointers, advice, things to ask or ponder? My preferences include Bollings AFB,Travis AFB, Eglin AFB, Langley AFB.
Any insights on the program at the above sites?

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

toothfairy2

 

[bass for less]

I am married and considering the military scholarship (applying for dental school this year). The prospects of getting financial support, serving the country, seeing different places...etc all sound interesting to me. However, what is the likelihood of being able to take my family with me during the payback years? We don't have kids yet, but may do by that time. I guess army, navy, air force all approach the family differently. Anyone can help me on which one(s) would be more accommodating?

 

[BQuad]

As far as I know all the services are about the same regarding families. They will move you, your wife and kids. Unless you do a hardship tour, like a year in Korea, or get deployed, you will be with your family. Just don't get stuck doing both, like me (I'm Army though).

When we graduated, before we were married, my wife headed to Alaska to start private practice, while I did the AEGD in Washington. It sounded like I could get to Alaska after the residency, but they didn't care, even though spots were open up there. So I went to Korea instead then was home only a year before they deployed me, for maybe 15 months now. So we've been together 12 out of 50 months, of the 50, 38 were due to the Army (she would have come to Washington if we had gotten married earlier).

Make sure your wife is ready for the commitment. 5 day work weeks, early mornings, being on call. That said, you get 4 days off for most federal holidays, a light Christmas schedule, and 30 days leave (but that includes weekends and holidays: if you want to take a week off over labor day, you'd take 7 days of leave even though you would get 4 off anyway).

If you have a family I would look to the Air Force so you don't get stuck away for a year or 15 months on deployments. If you can get stationed in Europe, you will have great travel opportunities.

 

[bass for less]

Thanks BQUAD!

I've open a new thread on this topic under the main directory, since this seems to be a new topic.

New Thread

 

[FAD]

you cannot submit an application without having an acceptance letter. that is part of the application package that gets sent to the board. The government, finacially, doesn't work off the normal calendar year. It's fiscal year runs from October 1st to the following September 30th. So, If you apply in JUL, AUG or SEP, the pickings may be slim or none as far as scholarships go. Once OCT rolls around, the new batch of scholarships become available.

Each branch is different when it comes to scholarship availability. Right now, the Air Force has the easiest time filling its scholarships, so the earlier in the fiscal year the better and they can be a little pickier at selection. The Navy varies from year to year, but they usually fill all their slots by the end of the fiscal year. The Army is hurting. They are undermanned and have the highest amount of scholarships available in which they are not all filled, so if you are in need of money, you can pretty much be guaranteed of getting one from them. I am NOT going to say whether I think going the Army route is a good idea or not because I have no experience there and that topic has its own thread which I would expect soemone to comment there instead of here if they want to bash the Army.

When to apply - as soon as you decide you want to go the military route and have an acceptance letter in hand. Even if the branch of the military you desire to apply with doesn't have any scholarships available, your package can go to the selection board and once OCT 1st rolls around, you can be granted a scholarship. That is how I got mine this past year. Once I determined I wanted the Navy HSCP scholarship, there were none available. So, once OCT 1st came around and the HSCP was available, I got the call stating I had the scholarship. A few days later I signed the paperwork.

Current policy for Navy is to accept an HPSP package without a letter of acceptance; then reveiw, process, and board the package, and give apporval all the way up to final acceptance so that when the applicant does get accpeted to a school all they have to do is go to their local recruiter and sign/swear in.

Navy also has a 'Field Select' program where the recruiter is authorized to offer a scholarship on the spot if the applicant passes a basic background check (questionairre), has a 3.5 or better GPA and a 19 or better on the DAT. Actually going to school on the Navy dime however is contingent on passing a physical and security screeing and meeting height and weight rqmts. All of which occur later as the application is processed.

HSCP may be a little different as they need to bring you directly on active duty to initiate the program.

 

[pauljeekim]

i have a question regarding the hardship tour in korea.

i'll be receiving the army hpsp soon, and i really hope to go to korea after i'm finished with dental school. i understand there are 1-year and 2-year commitments, and that we are allowed to bring families for the 2-year... am i allowed to bring my family over on my own expense, if i only manage to get the 1-year tour?

i plan on trying to get the 2-year, but as we all know, there are no guarantees..

thanks in advance for all your help.

pk.

 

[BQuad]

First of all, you will have a pretty decent chance of getting a 2 year tour in Korea, and it will keep you out of the worst part. Those with families are generally stationed in Seoul or further south, instead of up north where there are more restrictions.

You can bring you family over at your own expense, but there are disadvantages. It's discouraged, but you can still do it.

1. They will not be able to get access to the commissary due to rationing, you can still go, but there are limitations on how much you can spend a month.

2. If you are required to live on base, then you will pay the full cost of renting a seperate apartment off post for your family, and you will no longer be eligible for BAH since your family won't be living in the US.

3. They will only be eligible for emergency medical and dental care, not routine care.

4. If you get stationed closer to the DMZ there are more restrictions, like curfews, that would make it harder to live with your family even if you rented them a place off post.

The advantages of course are seeing your family and getting to travel around Asia.

If you get stuck with the hardship tour, current Army policy does not give you any credit for spending time away from your faimly as far as deployments go. You are generally given a year after returning, then you will probably deploy, so you will have 2 years away from you family (happened to me). I'm trying to change that policy but haven't had any luck so far.

So I'd say go for the 2 year but really think about it before taking the 1 year slot.

 

[pretzeldude66]

I'm not sure I've ever seen a straight answer to this: (Specifically for the Air Force, but probably the same for other branches)
I know that the AEGD-1 is considered a neutral year (does not count toward payback). However, what about the other residencies? How about the AEGD-2? Are any of them concurrent payback? (ex. 4 year HPSP payback + 1 year AEGD-1 + 3 year Prostho residency = 8 year service; or is some of the 4 years of HPSP payed back with the 3 year residency?)

 

[dantheman2007]

can one choose to have the army pay for 3 years worth of dental school and thus only serve 3 years?
how does this time commitment work?
thanks

 

[BQuad]

Your total commitment is 8 years regardless of how many years the scholarship is for, it just varies how much time is active duty. 4 yr scholarship = 4 years active + 4 years Independent Ready Reserve. 3 yr Scholarship = 3 years active and 5 years IRR.

I don't think they have involuntarily recalled IRR dentists yet but the Army corps keep getting smaller and if deployments continue, they will have to dip into the IRR at some point. IRR deployments are for 90 days, plus about another month in training and processing time.

 

[dantheman2007]

what is independent reserve?
is that when you are working privately, but if the army calls u up u got to go?

 

[BQuad]

Yes, IRR means you are still on a list that the Army can call up if needed, but you are otherwise free to work wherever you like. You don't have to do the 1 weekend a month, 2 weeks a year like the regular reserves.

Apparently there is something called muster duty, where you may be called to report to a base just for a day to ensure you are still in the area and they have your contact info. My friend just had to do that.

 

[jcomplex]

hey lt dan, i'm a 3rd year in the af hpsp, too. what do you need to do fly space A?

 

[UNR.Grad]

Could anyone give more info on going into specialties from Navy and Air Force? The required commitment time does not go up, the year you can apply and realistically get into a specialty program, etc.

I am very interested in a HPSP, but would like more info on the specialty programs.