question about money and dentistry

[generallobster]

I've been lurking around the dental forum for the past month reading all the posts back to 2002. What I've read has actually gotten me thinking about whether I should defer med school to just start over with the shadowing, tests, and applications to dental school in 2004. There are four things about dentistry which I really like and didn't think about before: the hours, being your own boss, the importance of good hand eye cordination in the job and the fact that schools appreciate artistic ability, and the no residency requirement before working. I do however want to ask a question about money and how it relates to the latter. Some people including med students have commented on the amount of money that dentists can make in those years that would have been spent in residency. An anesthesiologist was saying that sometimes he wishes he had chosen dentistry because of this. But most dentists own a practice eventually and, I am wondering how much needs to be invested to buy or start a new practice? If a percentage of your income goes to buying a share of a practice from a senior dentist, how much are you looking at investing, and wouldn't this cost plus school debt put you in the poor house for years just like a surgical residency?

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[Supernumerary]

It seems like I read in Dental Economics that it costs ~$250,000 to start up an average practice. So yes, that is a pretty penny. Also, when just starting out, it may take a year or two or three before you start really bringing home "doctor's wages". I would guess that the combination of practice debt and lower beginign earnings is about equivalent to the burden of a Family Practice residency. (I'm making this up as I go along so don't put too much faith in this ) On the other hand, a practice is an investment; you will likely sell it again when you retire and recoup your money there.

I think it's really hard to say which career is the better financial investment. A lot of people on these boards would say it is dentistry hands down, but I am not so sure. There are just too many messy details to make an accurate comparison. I think what really clinches the deal though is that dentistry is fun and doesn't have to consume your life.

If you need more specifics, you can search the dental forums for posts by Dr. Jeff. He is a practicing dentist who has been very open about his experience and finances since graduation. Very helpful posts.

 

[Supernumerary]

Another thing to consider is what you want when you get married and have kids. I know a lot people don't really give this a second thought (they're so young when they apply), but it is a huge factor to take into account. I am married with two kids and I can tell you that at some point you aren't gonna care how much money you're making if you can't take a day off here and there to take your kid fishing. My wife has friends whose husbands are in residency and they are miserable! They are always calling my wife wanting to do something - it's like they're single but not allowed to date. They are sooo lonely. Anyhow, I don't mean to knock medicine; it's a noble career. I'm just throwin' some stuff out there.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[groundhog]

He's taken the MCAT
But he can't shake that knot in his belly
The HMO's are king
And physicians just ain't on a rally

He says I know I'm a serious contender
Maxed organic plus tons of extracurriculars
But with medicare pay and lawsuits these days
Med school ain't no place for winners

Lord, it sounds so easy
This shouldn't take long
I'll get my DMD
In no time at all

He's gone dental
Look at him scoot
He's gone dental
Back in the loot
He's gone dental
A brand new route
Here he comes

He's gone dental
She's gone dental
Everybody's gone dental
Yeah, we've gone dental
The whole world's gone dental

 

[tinker bell]

Dude, who would be around to do by-pass surgery for us? Don't persuade anyone to quit medicine to go dental. It's a noble profession and we need them.

 

[Supernumerary]

I think med school slots will probably keep getting filled.

Anyhow, he's probably just having second thoughts. I know after I got my acceptance to dental school, I had a few thoughts about whether I should have applied to med school instead. Just buyer's remorse - it's a pretty natural thing.

But if he is seriously thinking about changing his mind, now is the time to do it. He hasn't started school yet so it's good for him to hear both sides of the issue now. I kind of imagine that's why he's here. Not to hear people bash medicine, but to find out what the draw is for dentistry and what it's really all about.

(Tell me if I'm wrong, Gen. Lobster )

There are a lot of happy people in both medicine and dentistry. If you explore the pros and cons of both professions now, you won't have to wonder three years from now (when it's pretty much too late to change your mind) whether you made the right choice or not.

 

[PENN Diddy]

globster,
You asked some good sound economic questions but try to forget about the money for a minute. Where did the love for helping people with ALL types of ailments go to all of a sudden? What was it about medicine that initially magnetized you & kept you dedicated for a career in medicine for all these years? Is money more important to you than love & dedication? Please dont take this as being condescending, but I do think that in your case, being that you will have to "defer" your life's dream to "start over" in pursuit of a career that may give you a healthier bank statement, I think these questions are at the heart of the matter. The most profitable dentsists I know are truly passionate about their career. Passion= love + dedication=Profit (especially in dentistry), therefore, Passion=Profit.

 

[DesiDentist]

Back in the day,
Physicians would say.
To be a Dentist?
Don't ever go that way.

It was the golden age for them,
$1000 bucks for clearing Phlegm.
Taking it to the bank and saying AMEN.

Now times have changed.
Dentists/Physician roles have been exchanged.
Physicians seem deranged.

Now we're taking it to the bank.
Only God we got to Thank.
It's like we got a signed check...
AND IT'S BLANK.

DesiDentist

 

[logistical99]

In terms of income and security, dentistry is a business and isn't as cut and dry as medicine. This is a field where you are responsible for bringing in patients and you can only earn as much treatments you are able to sell. ( which is why you have so much freedom over your life as a dentist, since no one is usually asking you to perform certain tasks in return for a specific income ) Contrary to the popular belief held here at the pre-dental forum, dentistry is a field that is more competitive than medicine.

Despite low residency salaries, new doctors are immediately offered jobs by HMO firms, where both salaries and patient visits are fixed. Paradoxically, medicine is more secure and "easier" than dentistry in this sense.

As an HMO physician/surgeon, your salary would be fixed at around 125k to 500k / yr. It is hard to tell how much exactly a dentist would be making but there is an awfully high standard deviation ( not good )around dentists' average incomes, which is typical of most businesses. Unlike medicine, dental demand ( nowadays mostly cosmetic ) is vulnerable to economic downturn.

This is not to say that dentistry is a lackadaisical profession; dentistry is sure to bring a lot of financial hardships but nothing could be better for an individual with a do-it-yourself business attitude who enjoys treating teeth.

 

[Dr.Nole]

The differences are astounding. No residency (right now), great money (getting better and better by the year and comparable to many MD fields), pick your work time (I know many dentists that work 3 days a week), and no pagers (unless you want one).

 

[PashaJ]

Go to Med school in the fall and experience it yourself. In the meantime apply to dental school too. If you like Med school you'll continue and consider your application fees a reassuring lesson that Med school is better. If you don't like Med school and prefer dental school, consider the year you spent at Med school a year long Kaplan course in preparation for your first year in Dental school.
I'm not totally serious about this but if you have the resources, why not?

 

[Comet208]

generallobster,

I agree with Pasha. Another advantage of going to Med school in the fall (even if have decided to attend dental school) is that you might be able to trasnfer some credits or get some of the overlapping corses waived, especially if it is the same school system. plus, you have not wasted a year in between.....

Comet!

 

[Teething Beauty]

Well...starting your own practice is quite expensive... a simple x-ray machine can begin at around 7,000 and the dental chair can run you as high as 45,000!!! The reality is that you probably will not even get to this point until some years down the line after you have started practicing. Having your own practice is great, but having worked at a dental office for four years, I know all the dedication that it takes to successfully run a dental office. So at times I just think that perhaps being a partner would be a better route for me, since you do not have to worry about as many things as you would if you had your own office.

Your income as a dentist has a lot to do with where you practice. One thing you must keep in mind is the whole HMO thing. Most doctors I know would not recommend medicine to their kids because it isn't what it used to be because of all the HMO regulations and their lack of pay to doctors. Also remember that good service goes a long way, so if you are a good dentist, you will never have to worry about having a low patient pool.

Most importantly, pick a career that truly makes you happy. Do not base your decision on income or what not. If you truly love what you do, all hardships will be well worth your sacrifice. If you truly love medicine then go for it!!!!

 

[ItsGavinC]

Excellent advice being offered. And, of course, lets not forget that dentistry is medicine of the oral cavity

 

[wimmcs]

One thing you may want to consider is the following:
I was talking to a female student who was originally pursuing medicine and who switched to dentistry. She started to volunteer at her local hospital and after volunteering for a few months, she realized that medicine is NOT what she wanted to do. She indicated that she heard a lot complaints from many 1st and 2nd year residents who were very unhappy and miserable and wished they had done some shadowing or volunteering at the hospital before pursuing medicine. Something to keep in mind. She told me she felt fortunate and lucky to have had the opportunity to "find out" in time that medicine was not for her. Anyway, hope this helps and good luck in whatever you pursue!!

 

[john snash]

Knowing that people go into the medical fields now-a-days just for the money is quite obnoxious and unpleasing. Whatever happened to good people just being in it for the good of humanity, to help those people that are sick or injured? For instance a proctologist, why on earth would someone ever want to be a proctologist? Every doctor or dentist now days specialize in order to make top dollar in their field. This greediness is causing a huge problem in the fall of family and pediatric doctors. There are clearly just in it for the money, you can't possibly enjoy that job unless you're getting that big fat paycheck at the end of the day. I am a nuclear chemistry major and am getting my Ph. D. in chemistry because I love it. I am certainly smart enough to go to medical or dental school but am going against a career with more money in it for a career of something I love. Since I am in most of the same classes as premeds, I have actually encountered a few conversions where I have asked my colleagues, "Why you would like to be a doctor" and the response was, "It's good money..." My girlfriend is becoming an audiologist; she is in the health field for the right reason, to help people. She is going to grad school for four years to get her Ph. D., even though she will be making $58,000 a year, which is barley above the national average.

 

[scsc7211]

1)

2) Tewtally...

I can assure you that many predents and premeds are pursuing careers that appeal to them on numerous levels, just one of which may happen to be earning potential. Not every dentist/doctor would be satisfied with the career paths afforded by a PhD, and vice versa.

I'm happy that both you and your significant other have found careers that have provided such widespread satisfaction, but I would hesitate to generalize an entire field of professionals based off a passing comment from an ignorant pre-med classmate of yours.

 

[zackc19]

Let's just not feed the troll here... Let's all just let this zombie thread go back to its grave...