anxietypeaker

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why do people do the 6 year for the MD rather than the 4 yr?

other than academia but even for academia you can always just do the PhD/DDS, right?

I even saw a list of people from a nearby hospital, and the there were several OMFS surgeons with ONLY DDS/DMD on staff. So hospital privelages isnt the reason for the MD, right?
 

toofache32

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Hospital priveleges are based on training, not degrees, according to JCAHO who accredits hospitals. OMFS is a dental specialty regardless of what other degrees you have. An MD is optional, but a DDS or DMD is required.

For academics you still don't need extra degrees although more letters after your name tends to be a good thing in academics. This is the only reason I'm in a 6-year program.

The training is generally the same for either route. There are differences between programs, but not necessarily related to the degrees you earn, because we learn what we do in residency, not dental or medical school. My 6-year program only has 1 (out of 9 faculty) attending with a medical degree, but we do as much complex surgery as anywhere else.
 

Bifid Uvula

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The MD looks good for academia, but like Toof said, it isn't absolutely necessary when it comes to hospital privaleges at all hospitals. There are a few exceptions to this rule though.

It is more difficult to get a Cosemtic, Head & Neck Cancer/Oncology, and Microvascular Surgery fellowship without the MD. I know people who have done the Oncology fellowship as single degrees, but they never pursued the Microvascular portion because they said there would be no hospital in the country that would give them priveleges as single-degree surgeons to do so.

What it really boils down to however is what your training & experience has been, where you end up, and how much competition there is between ENT/Plastics/ and other OMFS guys as to what you will get to do.
 
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Doggie

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Also, you'll never know when other states will follow California's foot steps. Apparently, arnie wont allow DDS oral surgeons perform as many procedures as DDS/MD oral surgeons. I think this is pretty funny since a lot of the DDS oral surgeons are way more competent clinically. :scared:
 

anxietypeaker

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are those fellowships (micro,onc, etc) things that you can get board certified in?

And if so, by which board (is it the american board of MEDICAL specialties or is it a dental board)? In other words, are there any subspecialties in OMFS that a dental board certifies people in? or are all the subspec. board certified through a nondental board?
 

toofache32

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anxietypeaker said:
are those fellowships (micro,onc, etc) things that you can get board certified in?

And if so, by which board (is it the american board of MEDICAL specialties or is it a dental board)? In other words, are there any subspecialties in OMFS that a dental board certifies people in? or are all the subspec. board certified through a nondental board?
There is no board certification in microvascular or head & neck oncology for either MD or DDS surgeons (including ABMS), although fellowships exist for both DDS and MD surgeons.

Like I said before, all things pertaining to OMFS are under the dental umbrella, not medical. Therefore OMFS isn't even recognized by the ABMS, but that's irrelevant because these are different healthcare realms.
 

Ankylosed

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To all you Omfs residents: What do you think will be the eventual outcome of all the politics of the 4yr vs. 6yr? A prominent Omfs (4yr trained) in my community is telling me that I will HAVE to complete a 6yr program in order to avoid future issues that will compound from the present litigation. Another 4yr trained guy is telling me to forget about 6yr because you don't need it and also expensive opportunity cost. It seems like it wouldn't be an issue considering there are more 4yr programs and not all of them are affiliated with a med school. I want to learn a full scope in training, but practice bread and butter. I feel like I would rather meet the facial trauma needs of the community, rather than the subspecialty needs that would be hard to get priveleges for (right now anyway). What are y'alls opinions on the future course of Omfs?
 

toofache32

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Ankylosed said:
To all you Omfs residents: What do you think will be the eventual outcome of all the politics of the 4yr vs. 6yr? A prominent Omfs (4yr trained) in my community is telling me that I will HAVE to complete a 6yr program in order to avoid future issues that will compound from the present litigation. Another 4yr trained guy is telling me to forget about 6yr because you don't need it and also expensive opportunity cost. It seems like it wouldn't be an issue considering there are more 4yr programs and not all of them are affiliated with a med school. I want to learn a full scope in training, but practice bread and butter. I feel like I would rather meet the facial trauma needs of the community, rather than the subspecialty needs that would be hard to get priveleges for (right now anyway). What are y'alls opinions on the future course of Omfs?
Good questions, and great avatar....helluva fracture.

It seems like 6-year people always tell you to do the 6-year programs, and the 4-year guys always tell you to do 4-year programs. As a 6-year guy at a program with both 4- and 6-year people, I will suggest that the MD doesn't matter unless you want to do some obscure fellowship which wants you to have both degrees. The "legal" issues right now seem to be more hassle than threatening, in my humble opinion. As for trauma, you will get good trauma training at most programs, regardless of degrees.
 

WestCoast

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toofache32 said:
Good questions, and great avatar....helluva fracture.

It seems like 6-year people always tell you to do the 6-year programs, and the 4-year guys always tell you to do 4-year programs. As a 6-year guy at a program with both 4- and 6-year people, I will suggest that the MD doesn't matter unless you want to do some obscure fellowship which wants you to have both degrees. The "legal" issues right now seem to be more hassle than threatening, in my humble opinion. As for trauma, you will get good trauma training at most programs, regardless of degrees.
I agree with this. With trauma, any hospital will be more than glad to provide privileges to take the trauma whether single or dual degree. I hear that there are still some hospitals that will only allow an MD to admit patients, but again, these are few and will probably be more of an hassle than threatning. I think the only problem will be with the elective cosmetic cases, since the plastics and ent do not want to lose the cases to omfs. I've actually talked to somebody that is dual degree with cosmetic fellowship and the hospitals wouldn't give him admitting privileges for cosmetic cases, so in the end, the degree has very little to do with many things that we do.
 

LSU-Cowboy

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anxietypeaker said:
why do people do the 6 year for the MD rather than the 4 yr?

other than academia but even for academia you can always just do the PhD/DDS, right?

I even saw a list of people from a nearby hospital, and the there were several OMFS surgeons with ONLY DDS/DMD on staff. So hospital privelages isnt the reason for the MD, right?

I'm getting the MD because I wanna be like Doggie :horns:
 

WestCoast

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Doggie said:
no, i wanted the MD to compensate for my small genitals and 1 undescended gonad.
I am getting MD so i can skip out to ob/gyn because omfs are bunch of narcissitic egomaniacs who dog on periodontist for fun and i like the other end of the cavity better. :eek:
 

toofache32

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WestCoast said:
... and i like the other end of the cavity better. :eek:
You mean that you know girls who poop out through the beef curtains?
 

toofache32

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Doggie said:
no, i wanted the MD to compensate for my small genitals and 1 undescended gonad.
I think you were meant to be the token female resident.
 

thatsjustmygame

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Does anyone know anything about the 4-year OMFS program in Galveston? Scope of practice, faculty, etc.?
 

OMFSdoc

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There is no good answer to the 4 vs. 6 question. However, some of the OMFS classifieds do list a preference for dual degree surgeons (DMD/DDS, MD). This is definately a minority of classifieds (maybe 5-10%), but it is a reality. I am in a 6 year program and I do not believe the specialty is moving towards an exclusively 6 year field. You will hear people say that there are 6 year programs better than 4 year and 4 year programs better than 6 year also. This is all true. However, when I began my training, I wanted to go into a program that would not close any doors. A good 6 year program will offer more than a good 4 year program in the end because those small doors (i.e. fellowships, academic positions, practices looking for dual degree surgeons) will not close. If I went to an amazing 4 year program, those doors may close, however, at an amazing 6 year, they will not. If you don't care about these relatively few doors closing, then a 4 year program may be the best thing for you, however, if you do care, then you should go to a 6 year program.
 
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