Question about Organization of BR

[deleted647690]

This is for @BerkReviewTeach
I just started studying for the MCAT today, and I started with your organic chemistry book I.
As I'm reading the first chapter, I'm having trouble with the example problems throughout because they ask about concepts that haven't been covered yet, and I am unable to answer them.

For example, in the section about steric hindrance, the example asks about the likelihood of functional groups in the equatorial position of cyclohexane, but I am unfamiliar with aromatic chemistry. The last time I covered that was in my orgo II class.

And to add onto that, another question asks about protonation of histidine, which I am unable to answer because I haven't looked at biochem yet.

I realize that both of these concepts are important for the MCAT and I should know them, but shouldn't this content be presented in a way so that I can learn it first before being quizzed on it?

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[Coltuna]

Sorry to interject, but this is something you'll need to get used to in your studying: Applying broad concepts to very specific situations across multiple topics and subtopics. Example: You'd be hard pressed not to find a question on blood flow (anatomy) when reviewing circuits in your physics, more specifically resistors in parallel and series. Although a question may ask using a specific example that you've never seen, the studied concept is there.

 

[deleted647690]

Sorry to interject, but this is something you'll need to get used to in your studying: Applying broad concepts to very specific situations across multiple topics and subtopics. Example: You'd be hard pressed not to find a question on blood flow (anatomy) when reviewing circuits in your physics, more specifically resistors in parallel and series. Although a question may ask using a specific example that you've never seen, the studied concept is there.

I guess I'm used to learning the information in a school sort of first learning setting; that's not the goal here. So if I can't remember a lot of stuff from the class, does that mean I'll have a lot of trouble with this?

 

[Coltuna]

I guess I'm used to learning the information in a school sort of first learning setting; that's not the goal here. So if I can't remember a lot of stuff from the class, does that mean I'll have a lot of trouble with this?

Yeah I understand. IMO, BR assumes a pretty solid initial science foundation for its readers. The reading will probably be difficult at first with a lot of stop and go, but don't let this detour you from using it! I got very discouraged early, suspended my use of these books, and have decided to go back to them because they're so good about incorporating practice problems to hammer home concepts. Stick with it, and pause when you need to to look things up. FYI, I would start memorizing your amino acids right now because they come up early and often! Have you thought of perhaps supplementing the books with a more conceptual series like EK?

 

[deleted647690]

Yeah I understand. IMO, BR assumes a pretty solid initial science foundation for its readers. The reading will probably be difficult at first with a lot of stop and go, but don't let this detour you from using it! I got very discouraged early, suspended my use of these books, and have decided to go back to them because they're so good about incorporating practice problems to hammer home concepts. Stick with it, and pause when you need to to look things up. FYI, I would start memorizing your amino acids right now because they come up early and often! Have you thought of perhaps supplementing the books with a more conceptual series like EK?

Thank you for helping me realize this early on. I guess I forgot that MCAT studying is supposed to be a quick review of content. I'm just finding it difficult because I was in orgo about a year and a half ago, and I feel like I forgot a majority of the information. I've been struggling through the first chapter; it took me about 5.5 hours to get through it today because I had to stop and go on the internet to relearn stuff so much.
I didn't consider supplementing with EK, but why would it make sense to supplement more dense material with less dense material? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

 

[deleted647690]

I think I assumed that MCAT prep materials would reteach/review the material in the same order it is taught in most classes

 

[Coltuna]

Thank you for helping me realize this early on. I guess I forgot that MCAT studying is supposed to be a quick review of content. I'm just finding it difficult because I was in orgo about a year and a half ago, and I feel like I forgot a majority of the information. I've been struggling through the first chapter; it took me about 5.5 hours to get through it today because I had to stop and go on the internet to relearn stuff so much.
I didn't consider supplementing with EK, but why would it make sense to supplement more dense material with less dense material? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Yeah I have been out of my prereqs for about 3-4 years, so I feel you pain there. Yeah sorry didn't mean to confuse you! You'd technically be supplementing EK with BR. Or even just getting a REALLY broad conceptual resource like quick sheets from a prep company may help you brush up on some of the terminology/concepts right before you read a chapter. May be a valuable resource if you can spend 5-10 minutes refreshing yourself before diving into the meat of BR.

 

[deleted647690]

Yeah I have been out of my prereqs for about 3-4 years, so I feel you pain there. Yeah sorry didn't mean to confuse you! You'd technically be supplementing EK with BR. Or even just getting a REALLY broad conceptual resource like quick sheets from a prep company may help you brush up on some of the terminology/concepts right before you read a chapter. May be a valuable resource if you can spend 5-10 minutes refreshing yourself before diving into the meat of BR.

Wow, I shouldn't be complaining. Can't imagine how difficult it would be if I was trying this in 4 years

 

[deleted647690]

So I'm doing the end of chapter exam, and there are questions related to spectroscopy. Should I just skip these since I haven't looked at that section yet? I'm just confused because there is a chapter in the book about spectroscopy (the last chapter), so I'm not sure why the questions wouldn't be there instead.


Also, I'm getting about 80% of the questions on the end of chapter exam incorrect. Not sure if that's something to be worried about

 

[nomdeplume1234]

So I'm doing the end of chapter exam, and there are questions related to spectroscopy. Should I just skip these since I haven't looked at that section yet? I'm just confused because there is a chapter in the book about spectroscopy (the last chapter), so I'm not sure why the questions wouldn't be there instead.


Also, I'm getting about 80% of the questions on the end of chapter exam incorrect. Not sure if that's something to be worried about

I would do them. It is priming you for when it actually is covered.

 

[dboyhaaan]

Yeah I understand. IMO, BR assumes a pretty solid initial science foundation for its readers. The reading will probably be difficult at first with a lot of stop and go, but don't let this detour you from using it! I got very discouraged early, suspended my use of these books, and have decided to go back to them because they're so good about incorporating practice problems to hammer home concepts. Stick with it, and pause when you need to to look things up. FYI, I would start memorizing your amino acids right now because they come up early and often! Have you thought of perhaps supplementing the books with a more conceptual series like EK?

Hey, I've been out of school for about 3 years now and its been 3-5 years since I took my prereqs. I don't really remember much but I'm sure it will come back to me. I was advised to use TBR if its been a while since content exposure but I've also been having trouble working through the chapters. I was going trough the first chapter in TBR Gen Chem I. I would read the in-chapter examples and then the solutions without attempting to do them on my own. Then I went on SDN and read that you should try to work out the examples as you go along. However, I don't see how this works since the reason I'm doing content review is so I can actually learn the content. Kind of feels like you're throwing someone into a lake without knowing how to swim. You think I should switch to EK series for content review and use TBR for practice passages / filling in the gaps? I'm just worried using EK as my primary content review source and when actual test day comes around I run into a topic I never looked over.

I think I assumed that MCAT prep materials would reteach/review the material in the same order it is taught in most classes

I'm in the same boat as you, I was going to actually search the forum because I'm also having trouble with TBR. Good thing I found you . I'm thinking it might be better to use the EK series to get the concepts down. I think they teach it in more of a classroom order as you say but also applying MCAT strategies with it. Depending on what Coltuna says, I might do a chapter of EK a day and then do 3 practice passages that correspond with the EK chapter. Then a couple weeks later go back and do 3 more passages corresponding to the material just to keep the content fresh in my head. As long as we cover everything in the AAMC topic outline we should be good.

 

[deleted647690]

Hey, I've been out of school for about 3 years now and its been 3-5 years since I took my prereqs. I don't really remember much but I'm sure it will come back to me. I was advised to use TBR if its been a while since content exposure but I've also been having trouble working through the chapters. I was going trough the first chapter in TBR Gen Chem I. I would read the in-chapter examples and then the solutions without attempting to do them on my own. Then I went on SDN and read that you should try to work out the examples as you go along. However, I don't see how this works since the reason I'm doing content review is so I can actually learn the content. Kind of feels like you're throwing someone into a lake without knowing how to swim. You think I should switch to EK series for content review and use TBR for practice passages / filling in the gaps? I'm just worried using EK as my primary content review source and when actual test day comes around I run into a topic I never looked over.



I'm in the same boat as you, I was going to actually search the forum because I'm also having trouble with TBR. Good thing I found you . I'm thinking it might be better to use the EK series to get the concepts down. I think they teach it in more of a classroom order as you say but also applying MCAT strategies with it. Depending on what Coltuna says, I might do a chapter of EK a day and then do 3 practice passages that correspond with the EK chapter. Then a couple weeks later go back and do 3 more passages corresponding to the material just to keep the content fresh in my head. As long as we cover everything in the AAMC topic outline we should be good.

I just worry because I feel like doing EK content review would not prepare you for BR passages

 

[FuturePsychiatrist]

I've never taken an orgo or physics class, when I'm lost in my study materials I go straight to YouTube. Amazing. It has been my saving grace while trying to learn new concepts.


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[dboyhaaan]

I just worry because I feel like doing EK content review would not prepare you for BR passages

I agree... I'm conflicted and not really sure where to start. I'd prefer to use EK for content reviewbecause it would be faster to run through and give more time to focus on passages and exams. But I I'd like to see what experienced test takers think about this.


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[Coltuna]

I just worry because I feel like doing EK content review would not prepare you for BR passages

I agree... I'm conflicted and not really sure where to start. I'd prefer to use EK for content reviewbecause it would be faster to run through and give more time to focus on passages and exams. But I I'd like to see what experienced test takers think about this.


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I'm not sure if there is an EK chapters -----> BR passages thread out there or not. I know there is one for biology that MCATJelly might have but don't quote me on that. If not, you could try to tie the chapters and passages together; however, this may be difficult as the BR passages associated with the EK chapters are probably scattered throughout. If it would make you feel more comfortable with BR content, read through the EK books to get a general overview and then tackle the BR books. In hindsight, I wish I would've done this. IMO, Kaplan quick sheets are one of the better resources out there for dabbling in the material if this is your goal with the EK books.

 

[dboyhaaan]

I'm not sure if there is an EK chapters -----> BR passages thread out there or not. I know there is one for biology that MCATJelly might have but don't quote me on that. If not, you could try to tie the chapters and passages together; however, this may be difficult as the BR passages associated with the EK chapters are probably scattered throughout. If it would make you feel more comfortable with BR content, read through the EK books to get a general overview and then tackle the BR books. In hindsight, I wish I would've done this. IMO, Kaplan quick sheets are one of the better resources out there for dabbling in the material if this is your goal with the EK books.

Yeah that sounds like a good call. I think I'm also going to watch the corresponding KA videos before whatever chapter I do that day. Just so I have a little background knowledge going into a BR chapter.


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[BerkReviewTeach]

This is for @BerkReviewTeach
I just started studying for the MCAT today, and I started with your organic chemistry book I.
As I'm reading the first chapter, I'm having trouble with the example problems throughout because they ask about concepts that haven't been covered yet, and I am unable to answer them.

For example, in the section about steric hindrance, the example asks about the likelihood of functional groups in the equatorial position of cyclohexane, but I am unfamiliar with aromatic chemistry. The last time I covered that was in my orgo II class.

The topics are sequenced in a way that parallels most of the common organic chemistry textbooks. Steric hindrance is a topic from structure, which is found early in both our books and most textbooks. And for what it's worth, cyclohexane and butane are the two most common examples of steric hindrance in early organic chemistry. Butane is used to teach staggered, eclipsed, gauche, and anti. Chair conformations are used to present diaxial steric hindrance and the favorability of equatorial over axial because of it.

And to add onto that, another question asks about protonation of histidine, which I am unable to answer because I haven't looked at biochem yet.

I realize that both of these concepts are important for the MCAT and I should know them, but shouldn't this content be presented in a way so that I can learn it first before being quizzed on it?

The side chain of histidine can be analyzed without knowing biochemistry. Much of biochemistry is an extension of organic chemistry. This example points out that aromaticity requires a cyclic, conjugated pi-system that contains (4n + 2) electrons. The thing about the side chain of histidine is that it has two nitrogens, one of which incorporates its lone pair into the cyclic pi-system and the other that uses a p-orbital to form a pi-bond and has its lone pair in an sp2-hybridized orbital. The key point is that one lone pair is tied up in resonance (aromaticity), so the other nitrogen is the active one. Know this from organic chemistry will make learning and/or reviewing biochemistry easier.[/user]

 

[matchmeifyoucan]

@BerkReviewTeach In regards to the biology books, is it okay to start with the Part 2 (Biochem/Molecular Cell Biology) first, and then move on to Part 1 (Physiology)? Or does it make sense to stick with the natural order (Part 1, then Part 2)? In what situation would you recommend doing it in the natural order?

I'm using ANKI and since the MCAT is heavy on the biochem, I figured I should have more exposure to part 2 material than part 1 via twice/thrice daily ANKI reviews (I make ANKI cards as I go along with the chapters so the earlier chapters are the chapters I will have reviewed the most via ANKI).

 

[BerkReviewTeach]

The two biology books are independent, so you can start with either one. I'd recommend doing Organic book 2 concurrently with Biology Book 2, as they complement each other well. The organic chemistry shows the overall picture and key features while the biology books does into more depth.

 

[matchmeifyoucan]

The two biology books are independent, so you can start with either one. I'd recommend doing Organic book 2 concurrently with Biology Book 2, as they complement each other well. The organic chemistry shows the overall picture and key features while the biology books does into more depth.

Thanks! So is the Organic book 2 independent of Organic book 1?

 

[BerkReviewTeach]

Thanks! So is the Organic book 2 independent of Organic book 1?

Pretty much. Book 1 is organic chemistry foundations and book 2 is application, reactions, and lots of biological examples.