Question about social psychology Ph.D

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Maigret Man

Nontrad premed
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Greetings,

I am a pre-med student but a good buddy of mine is looking to get a Ph.D in social psychology. He does not want to do clinical psychology but focus on research. He is looking to chat with someone who has applied to social psychology Ph.D programs recently. How does he make himself more competitive?

Thanks!

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I'm going for clinical so take what I say with a grain of salt.

The social PhD folks I know seem to focus on research, research and more research. Pubs/presentations whenever possible.

You didn't mention his area of interest, but certain areas of social psych lend themselves very well to extracurricular/volunteer activities. If he is interested in prejudice/etc. clubs examining minority issues could be a great experience, as would volunteer work in say, some inner city schools. Personal statement gold IMO. These are not precisely clinical activities per se, more like "community involvement". From what I have heard, social programs tend to give more weight to things like that than most other areas.
 
Ollie,

Thanks for the info! My friend has worked for several years in various research jobs. His specific research interest is the decision process on whether or not to have children. He is all about research. He has a master's in psych, several poster presentations and a couple journal articles.

Do you know if social psych programs put a lot of emphasis on pubs and research experience? Do you think being an older candidate will hurt him?
 
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Happy to help:)

Pretty much every psych grad program places a huge value on research experience, and pubs are fantastic. Even PsyD programs (which were specifically designed to focus more on the clinical end than research) still look favorably on people having research experience.

In that research area there are plenty of volunteer opportunities....he could work abandoned children, could work with sick children in hospitals and providing support for them and their parents, could work in schools...pretty much endless possibilities for things that are related to his area. Might not be "exactly" his research match, but I think anything that serves the community in a related way and ties in to his research would look good.

Unless social is drastically different in this regard from other areas....no, being older will definitely not hurt him. Unlike medicine, psych programs usually prefer to take people at least 1-2 years out(or more). In part because the programs are so competitive its almost impossible to fulfill all the "requirements" to be accepted in just 4 years of undergrad! If anything being slightly older could help him.
 
Honestly, if he has worked several years in the field, has an MA, has pubs and presentations under his belt, and has clearly defined research interests, he is probably already very competitive (assuming good grades and all)! The next step will be to identify specific faculty members at various schools whose interests overlap with his own. Given his specific interests, he may want to also look into social-health programs (with faculty who look at how people make health-related decisions) as well as faculty with general interests in judgment and decision making. He should remember that his interest match with specific faculty members is more important than the general prestige of the university. He seems like he's in pretty good shape to apply this fall! Happily, social psych is not as disgustingly competitive as clinical (although it is certainly still competitive).
 
I did my undergrad thesis with a social psychologist advisor, so I got to hear some stuff about applicants.

From what I can gather, your friend can breathe a sigh of relief. It's less competitive than clinical, although of course high GREs and a high GPA will give you a leg up. Research experience is definitely most important, as well as fit with a professor. But there are fewer people applying to social and so the pressure is definitely less than it is for clinical.
 
I did my undergrad thesis with a social psychologist advisor, so I got to hear some stuff about applicants.

From what I can gather, your friend can breathe a sigh of relief. It's less competitive than clinical, although of course high GREs and a high GPA will give you a leg up. Research experience is definitely most important, as well as fit with a professor. But there are fewer people applying to social and so the pressure is definitely less than it is for clinical.
That mirrors my experiences also.

-t
 
Thanks y'all for the replies. He will find them very encouraging. Do any of you have any experience with NYC-based social psych Ph.D programs? He is looking to go to school around NYC for family reasons. CUNY looks promising. Do you know any others with solid programs?
 
Afraid I don't know enough to comment on that, but I would caution against narrowing it down geographically TOO much (though I suppose NYC has enough schools where this might be less of a problem than elsewhere).

I understand he wants to be near family, but while social psych is less competitive than say...clinical...it IS still competitive. Only applying to schools within NYC just sounds like its asking for trouble to me. Even if he is willing to expand that search to Eastern NY/Jersey/PA/Connecticut that will give him many more options.

Then again, there is always the possibility of applying only to NYC schools first and then taking a broader look the following year if he doesn't get in.

Don't get me wrong, he DOES sound like a very competitive applicant and its entirely possible CUNY would love to have him. I just got a little twinge when you mentioned that he wanted to try and stay within NYC given that many people feel like they are hurting their chances if they limit themselves to a region as broad as say "The Eastern half of the US" let alone a single city.

Then again, that's mostly clinical folks I know...social IS less competitive but I don't know by exactly how much.
 
Just to expand a bit on what Ollie is saying....on the one hand he is lucky that he is in NYC, because there are a number of universities in the general area (I can't speak spec. to social psych). However, there may be many other people who are thinking the same thing, "Let me only apply to school in NYC", in addition to those who want to move/live in NYC, and those who would consider NYC.

Also, just because there are programs, doesn't mean there is a POI (person of interest) in your area who is taking on new grad students. This is a great example of why everything is relative....social psych may be easier (overall) to get into than clinical, it is still a very competitive process, with many complicating factors.

With all of that being said.....NYC is one of the few places in the nation where people 'can' limit by geography and be okay.

-t
 
Thanks for the advice, folks. I have told my friend so much of this stuff but it has a little more weight coming from you!

Do you suggest he contact some social psych profs at the schools he is interested in to see if they are interested in his research ideas?
 
Only after he researches them, and avoids the 'dart board method' (where he calls randomly and hopes his interests match up remotely with that of the prof). There should be a good amount of info on the school website about general areas of interest.

-t
 
Regarding Social Psych being less competitive....

I think this was mentioned on a thread a while back, but I was thinking about this yesterday. It seems to me that programs in areas other than clinical and counseling such as social psych or cognitive psych may have far fewer applicants, but that a much greater percentage of those applicants will be competitive as compared to clinical or counseling applicants.

People going for social or cognitive psych KNOW they're very likely heading for a career in research. The few people I know who were going into social psych had publications, poster presentations, or at least a published abstract when they applied to grad school. I didn't know anyone in my graduating class intending on going into clinical who had published anything or presented anywhere. You can't pretend an interest in research and suffer through it long enough to get into private practice when you're in Social. I think that a very large number of clinical applicants apply to research-driven schools without a background of conducting good research. Conversely, I think that most applicants in other areas are already deeply involved in research by the time they finish their undergrads.

Just a thought!
 
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Good point, research experience in general is probably considered more important in social psych

I know a lot of people who went into social psych and most of them had pretty low GREs (I know one girl who had a 400 verbal and 540 math) and got in first try.
 
Good point, research experience in general is probably considered more important in social psych

I know a lot of people who went into social psych and most of them had pretty low GREs (I know one girl who had a 400 verbal and 540 math) and got in first try.

Are you SERIOUS? To a PhD program right out of undergrad? I am going to be applying to Social programs and NOWHERE I have looked would accept such a low GRE without some ridiculous amount of publications. And even then...
I know at my school, there were 90 applicants for the Social program this past year (30 already had their Masters) and about 5 acceptances. That 5-6% seems to be pretty standard out of all the Social programs I have looked at...
 
I also have some questions about social psych programs, I'd appreciate feedback.

How useful would it be to have research without publications? I have an opportunity to RA at two very prestigious social psych programs in the coming months, but for relatively short periods of time each.

(Side questions: Is "publication" synonymous with "authorship"? How much, if any, recognition does a (volunteer) RA receive?)

I am thinking this will be a great learning experience and I will have some great research for my CV as well. Although I have traditionally been interested in clinical psych, I have lately become quite intrigued by the possibility of studying for a social psych PhD. If I were to apply to clinical programs in the fall, do you folks think that this research would still be appreciated by admissions? And in terms of social programs, would volunteer RA experience be enough?
 
Lakewood--

In my opinion, research should always be done with the goal of publication. Sometimes it doesn't work out, but that should always be the goal. There's really no point in doing it otherwise.

Research work that doesn't get published can be used to show competancy in doing REB forms, collecting data, or running analysis, but not much more than that....

Publication = authorship in some form. It's exceptionally rare for an undergrad to have first authorship on anything; undergrads are usually second or third, if that. This is simply because of the nature of undergrad coursework. If your advisor is giving you the project topic, choosing the measures, and telling you what analysis to run, then there's no reason to expect to be first author.

RA experience can get you experience working with research. But, you really have to make your contribution count in order to be listed as an author. Just doing a lit search, running analysis, or collecting data is not enough to justify authorship at all, in my opinion and experience. But, if you take the lead in some endevours you can do it. First authorship typically goes to the person who came up with the idea for the study, or did the bulk of the work that couldn't be done by just anyone (interpreting results, writing a coherent paper, etc). Authorship on work is something that should always be discussed before ever coming onboard a project. Otherwise you're just inviting animosity.

Clinical programs don't just appreciate research experience--most see it as absolutely essential. I'll let others answer whether RA experience without publication helps in Social Psych-- my understanding is a resounding "yes," by my experience is limited.
 
I'm actually going to have to disagree with JockNerd on this one. As a graduate student or professor, of couse the purpose of doing research is to publish (unless you're piloting something to help you get a grant for another study that you can then publish;) ).

As an undergrad I think its wise to keep it in mind as the ideal. But I DEFINITELY believe there is a point in getting involved even if there is no hope of publication. You learn extremely valuable lab skills, have opportunities to be exposed to someone else's views on methodology, different measures, different lab setups, etc. Pubs are great and DEFINITELY try to get one out of it when you can. I'd never recommend you miss out on an opportunity to work in a lab just because you wouldn't get a pub out of it though.

I've worked in 8 labs in the past 4 years, spanning 3 departments. I have zero pubs to show for it (long story as to why), but because I've worked in so many labs I'm quite confident I'm better able to design, run and analyze a study than some of my friends with multiple pubs to their name. I've had a chance to come on board on a study that had JUST gotten grant approval, and help build EVERYTHING from the ground up over the past year and a half. I'll be leaving before we finish, and I will PROBABLY eventually get some pubs out of it, but even if I don't I'm convinced this was still by far the best thing I think I could have done before graduate school.

My advice is to go for pubs whenever you can, but don't pass up a chance to work in those labs just because you won't get something tangible for your CV from it. Even if it doesn't help you get IN, it may very well help you once you get there.
 
I'm actually going to have to disagree with JockNerd on this one. As a graduate student or professor, of couse the purpose of doing research is to publish (unless you're piloting something to help you get a grant for another study that you can then publish;) ).

I interpreted the question differently. My impression was the Lakewood was asking about having direct experience in research projects that don't get published (i.e. doing a thesis that would never be published anywhere, or not trying to get it published).

I agree with you that experience in a lab is valuable, even if it doesn't lead to your name being on the product.
 
I imagine that the research would eventually be published. However, it is a summer volunteer opportunity, so my time involvement will be limited to a few months. I doubt my name would appear in the publication for this reason.

I was under the impression that RA's names were commonly left off the published work. However, it will still be worth putting on my CV, right? I would not claim authorship, but the experience itself is worth noting. At least that was what I believed, but I'm new to much of this. So by all means, please tell me if I'm wrong!
 
ahhh, okay, that makes more sense. Definitely no real point in spending the time putting together a research project if you have no plans to make it publishable. I interpreted it as him saying the RESEARCH was publishable, but he is unlikely to be able to get authorship since his involvement will be limited.

lakewood - Eventually these experiences get phased out of your CV, but for now I definitely think its something to include. I had a whole "Research experience" section where I listed some of my duties in each lab and the PIs and I think it helped....even if you are only helping for a summer it would fit somewhere like that. Its also something to talk about in your interviews!

The short version of all this is: If you have the time and it won't interfere with other career-related activities, this will at worst only help a little, and has the potential to help a lot. So go for it:)

Oh, and t4 is right, don't bother putting down that you were involved in "x" publication unless you are actually an author. Saying that you worked on "Research project with prof z" and explaining which one it was is fine though.
 
Thanks a lot for the help guys. I am inexperienced conducting research so it is definitely valuable to get opinions on this.

I think I need to get my feet wet and just get involved at this point. I won't be an author on the final research, but I could still contribute and learn a lot. I will figure out a way to represent it on my CV, and although it will not be as competitive as a full time paid research job with publications, there is still potential for a good recommendation letter and it will be a good start. Right?

I am still not sure which programs I will be applying to this fall -- my current thinking is that there will be some clinical and some social programs. How do you think clinical programs would view RA experience in a social psych lab? Obviously not as great as clinical research, but still, it's better than nothing, isn't it? (But the real question is: how MUCH better :)
 
I was an RA in a social psych lab and still managed to get into a clinical PhD program so there's hope yet :D
 
Hey folks. Nice to see this thread has taken on a life of its own! I do have a question about acceptance rates. From what my friend has told me, programs have 100 applicants for 5 slots. Are the number of applicants for a program artificially high because every applicant applies to virtually every program? Do any of you have any sense of the average number of programs an applicant applies to?
 
Hey folks. Nice to see this thread has taken on a life of its own! I do have a question about acceptance rates. From what my friend has told me, programs have 100 applicants for 5 slots. Are the number of applicants for a program artificially high because every applicant applies to virtually every program? Do any of you have any sense of the average number of programs an applicant applies to?

Hmmm, I know some of the grad students at my school in the Social department applied to 15.
In the Clinical department, I have heard of someone applying to 21!!
 
I was an RA in a social psych lab and still managed to get into a clinical PhD program so there's hope yet :D

Haha, the question for me is: Will the Social programs I apply to care that I did a lot of RA work in Clinical labs? I sure hope so, lol! I think I spin it in my favor though, because I am interested in stigma and mental illness and I can spin all my Clinical experience in the "mental illness" category. I hope.
 
Hmmm, I know some of the grad students at my school in the Social department applied to 15.
In the Clinical department, I have heard of someone applying to 21!!

Meh, that's nothing, one of my profs admitted to applying to 29 programs. :cool:
 
Meh, that's nothing, one of my profs admitted to applying to 29 programs. :cool:

It's the people who tell me that they only applied to two programs and got into both that make me want to murder them. :laugh:
 
It's the people who tell me that they only applied to two programs and got into both that make me want to murder them. :laugh:

:laugh: Yep, and that would be one of my other profs . . . Except she only applied (and got accepted) into ONE program, and not a shoddy one at that. She told me this at a very bad time. M'thinks my face may have actually turned this color -->:mad:
 
I think I need to get my feet wet and just get involved at this point. I won't be an author on the final research, but I could still contribute and learn a lot. I will figure out a way to represent it on my CV, and although it will not be as competitive as a full time paid research job with publications, there is still potential for a good recommendation letter and it will be a good start. Right?

I am still not sure which programs I will be applying to this fall -- my current thinking is that there will be some clinical and some social programs. How do you think clinical programs would view RA experience in a social psych lab? Obviously not as great as clinical research, but still, it's better than nothing, isn't it? (But the real question is: how MUCH better :)

I don't think it would matter at all if the experience was in social psych as opposed to clinical. And volunteer experience can sometimes look better than paid RA work, especially if the research is right up your alley--shows you're willing to commit to doing research work even if you aren't getting paid for it directly (which will probably happen in grad school anyway!).

Applying to ONE program? Was she married to one of the faculty??
 
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