Question? Can a non board eligible MD take the PA exam?

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renogirl

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Hi everyone. I got my MD and completed my intern year 8 years ago, then left the program to have/raise my kids. Now I am looking to go back to work. I don't think going back to a residency is necessarily the best idea in light of where healthcare is heading.

Does anyone know if I would be able to take the PA exam to work as a PA?

Or would there be additional requirements. I feel like I would have completed a lot of the requirements as I worked closely with PA students during med school and we seemed to be doing the same thing.

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No, you won't be able to.
To further elucidate the only way to become certified as a PA is to graduate from an ARC-PA accredited PA program. Interestingly there is at least one state the will not license you as a PA if you have graduated from medical school regardless of your certification. For further information on certification please look here:
http://www.nccpa.net/CER_process.aspx

David Carpenter, PA-C
 
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Thanks for the replies. I did read all the PA requirements but wondered if anyone had ever heard of an MD trying to become a PA. I wonder why the one state doesn't allow anyone who attended medical school to become a PA. We seem to have learned the exact same things in school.

I did not realize how useless the MD is without the residency when I took the leave of absence. I recently spoke with my program director and I have to repeat the intern year obviously and he said it would be difficult to find a position since I am limited in my geographical area now that my kids are in school. It would be too much to move them AND work 88 hours a week as an intern.

If anyone has any ideas for a career, please let me know. This is a great forum and I appreciate any input. This is a tough one!
 
Thanks for the replies. I did read all the PA requirements but wondered if anyone had ever heard of an MD trying to become a PA. I wonder why the one state doesn't allow anyone who attended medical school to become a PA. We seem to have learned the exact same things in school.

I did not realize how useless the MD is without the residency when I took the leave of absence. I recently spoke with my program director and I have to repeat the intern year obviously and he said it would be difficult to find a position since I am limited in my geographical area now that my kids are in school. It would be too much to move them AND work 88 hours a week as an intern.

If anyone has any ideas for a career, please let me know. This is a great forum and I appreciate any input. This is a tough one!

No offense intended but - didn't you consider any of this before you went to medical school and/or the ramifications of not completing a residency?

There was a similar question in the anesthesiology forum a year or so ago - someone had completed an anesthesia residency and bemoaning the fact that they couldn't find a job working one shift a month. What's the point of all that time and education if you don't use it?
 
Not at all. Nursing is an ideal profession for women who want to work and still spend substantial amounts of time with their kids. The variety of work environments and shift schedules make it possible to structure work around family. The pay is excellent for the education and training required. It sounds like it would be perfect for the OP.

How many hours has it been since you last had substantial sleep? You're scaring me. The OP finished med school and intern year, IIRC. Why in God's name would she want to be a nurse?

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but...
 
She did? Sorry, I must have really misread this thread. I was under the impression she was in her first year of medical school. Okay yeah, I agree, bailing on medicine at this point is probably a bad idea (although I fantasize about it every single day). There are other options at this point, like PM&R residency.

Yeah, she did:

Hi everyone. I got my MD and completed my intern year 8 years ago, then left the program to have/raise my kids. Now I am looking to go back to work. I don't think going back to a residency is necessarily the best idea in light of where healthcare is heading.

That's why I was like :confused::confused::confused: NURSING!!!!
Although I think the OP has some issues. I can't imagine going all that way and then deciding not to do residency. It seems like such a waste. No one knows where healthcare is heading. Why jump out because of something that may never even come to fruition?
 
To further elucidate the only way to become certified as a PA is to graduate from an ARC-PA accredited PA program. Interestingly there is at least one state the will not license you as a PA if you have graduated from medical school regardless of your certification. For further information on certification please look here:
http://www.nccpa.net/CER_process.aspx

David Carpenter, PA-C

This is true and I have had more than a few of my MS-1s and MS-2s entertain the idea of dropping out and becoming a PA. Unfortunately, with the high cost of medical education and PA education, this becomes a very costly idea.

Thanks for the replies. I did read all the PA requirements but wondered if anyone had ever heard of an MD trying to become a PA. I wonder why the one state doesn't allow anyone who attended medical school to become a PA. We seem to have learned the exact same things in school.

I did not realize how useless the MD is without the residency when I took the leave of absence. I recently spoke with my program director and I have to repeat the intern year obviously and he said it would be difficult to find a position since I am limited in my geographical area now that my kids are in school. It would be too much to move them AND work 88 hours a week as an intern.

If anyone has any ideas for a career, please let me know. This is a great forum and I appreciate any input. This is a tough one!

I have had several foreign MDs who have not been able to get into a residency position (or pass USMLE) attempt to enter PA programs. With the very high salaries of PAs these days, it certainly beats driving a cab or cooking in a restaurant which is what some of these folks have been doing.

The residency work hour limits are 80 hours per week. Only the surgical specialties skirt the 80 hours with most other residencies working less than the 80. That 88 hours per week is not accurate.

No offense intended but - didn't you consider any of this before you went to medical school and/or the ramifications of not completing a residency?

There was a similar question in the anesthesiology forum a year or so ago - someone had completed an anesthesia residency and bemoaning the fact that they couldn't find a job working one shift a month. What's the point of all that time and education if you don't use it?

There are many people who finish medical school and do not wish to pursue a residency or practice clinically. Fortunately, there are other careers, pharmaceutical sales, health policy, consulting that can be done by MDs. There are other MDs who have entered teaching, research, broadcast journalism and writing who have been successful.

People enter medical school with loads of energy and interest only to change their minds (especially after children). Most medical students are young adults who may or may not realize that they may their minds about things after the experience of one or two years of medical school. The good thing is that medicine does give one options which may or may not be practical for the OP who has family obligations. Perhaps when her children get older, she may opt for another career at that time.
 
OK just tryin to help your problem but this idea will certainly draw fire.

Find a PA program that can USE YOU and they will HELP YOU. All PA programs require people with MD degrees on staff for accreditation. Float out some letters. See is being on staff might make getting the degree awarded to you while you work for them then you will have eligability to sit for the exam. If not awarded then ability to test out of classes and have some waived. Anyway you look at it

mike
 
If you completed an intern year and all you steps then get your permanent license and become a general practitioner. In most if not all states that is all you need. You could hang you own shingle or work in an Urgent care center or even moonlight at a hospital admitting patients at night for medicine groups. Just some ideas.
 
If you completed an intern year and all you steps then get your permanent license and become a general practitioner. In most if not all states that is all you need. You could hang you own shingle or work in an Urgent care center or even moonlight at a hospital admitting patients at night for medicine groups. Just some ideas.

The problem with this plan is that insurance companies (and the feds) read third-party payers will not allow a non board certified/board eligible physician in their provider groups. This limits one's patient cohorts to those who pay out of pocket which are few. Most hospitals will not grant admitting privileges to non-board certified/board eligible physicians. Moonlighting is a possibility but you have to get enough hours to cover malpractice which may or may not be possible depending on the area.
 
It would be too much to move them AND work 88 hours a week as an intern.

If anyone has any ideas for a career, please let me know. This is a great forum and I appreciate any input. This is a tough one!

Have you considered psych residency? Many average 60 hrs/week during internship, and fewer hours during later years.
 
I haven't checked in in awhile but I am going to pursue a career in teaching at this point. I qualify to teacher most high school sciences except for physics. I do love teaching sciences and I have a giant enthusiasm for getting kids to find science interesting. I do quite a bit of nutrition teaching at our elementary school and I get a lot of positive feedback from the kids and teachers.

So that is it for now. I still get my summers off which means I can still go to the beach with my kids everyday but do something slightly more intellectual than flipping houses. Thanks for the feedback.

And I did want to respond to jwk who wondered why I put the effort into medical school and internship just to leave...I always planned on spending time raising my kids, I just did not expect to get pregnant when I did. My loans had run out and my paychecks hadn't started and I couldn't pay the copay for my OCs that month. Go figure! Motherhood was supposed to be 5 years after residency when I could work 2-3 days a week, not 90 hours. I have no regrets. I wouldn't have had my second child if I had returned to work immediately so there is a reason it worked out the way it did.

fab4fan You are so funny! I am laughing out loud as I read your responses.
 
I usually write better than I did as I am reading through this. Maybe I won't qualify to "teacher" after all.:laugh:
 
Hey Renogirl,

My Bio teacher in high school did almost the same thing you are planning to do. She went to med school and dropped out in her second year and started teaching high school bio. She is by far my favorite teacher and alot of my interested in becoming a PA came from her and her class. She loved what she was doing and she was so knowledgeable which made the class so much more interesting. I hope you do the same for your future students :)
 
Hey girlfriend, I wonder how many of us are out there?

I too went to medical school, even graduated in the top of my class followed by internship at well respected university program. When "news" leaked of my unintentional pregnancy, I received lots of "advice" to "just take an afternoon off" and "take care of the problem". There were even lots of jokes that one indicator of the "best" surgical programs, were those with the highest miscarriage rates. I know we have all heard the stories of resident's rates of kidney stones secondary to dehydration; working non-deterred with raging pneumonia( and it being expected); helping with patient rounds after just receiving surgery ones self, etc.

In my case there was a pregnant woman presenting to the ER late one night with a perf'd bowel--they all thought it was me!! Ha! Ha!(knowing that I had become so dehydrated and constipated I was administering self-enemas). I was in an OB/G program, actually ranked as one of the best in the country, yet I didn't receive prenatal care. I was offered to take one hour per week though for "counseling", but no time for prenatal care. At 36 weeks I was "advised" to get an induction the following week. I was also told that although the law provided for a six week maternity leave, that in fact I would be "hated" if I took more than a two week leave.

I could keep writing for many pages more on this topic....

Call me naive, but I never expected the "Noble Profession" of medicine to have such callous attitudes and treatment of their very own. The attitudes and expectations regarding what is expected of residents goes beyond meeting the needs of patients, in fact I would argue that patients are placed in jeopardy as a result. These archaic attitudes probably served the profession well back when most of the residents were young men in their 20's with doting wives at home. It was a few years of grueling labor in exchange for a lifetime of career prosperity. It was and continues to be a "right of passage".

Problem is that now women constitute roughly 50% of medical school students. Like it or not, it is women who birth children ( and this actually should be a valued trait when you consider that one day we will all become old and will need young people to grow our food, run the country, etc.). Yet medicine has failed to evolve in its attitudes or practices to an appreciable enough extent that talented women like us aren't forced to make difficult decisions between our children and our chosen profession.
Moreover, if we chose to take a leave of absence from the profession, even with the most compelling of circumstances, there really are no career paths back.

I guess the joke is on us who worked hard and sacrificed our youths to get the grades to get into and through medical school; risked our financial futures with on average $200,000.00 in student loans only to find out that our "valuable" M.D. degree is in fact not that valuable if you do not stick to the straight and narrow, often inhumane, residency paths that worked for our physician forefathers. Further consider that U.S. medical school graduates face the very real threat that there is always another "warm body" ready and waiting from any one of thousands of medical schools worldwide to fill their U.S. residency spot, many of whom do not have student loan debt. Have you ever looked into training for U.S. graduates in another country? It is pretty difficult to even find information on the topic.

Please excuse my long and opinionated "rant". I guess you touched on a "sore" spot.:eek:
 
I haven't checked in in awhile but I am going to pursue a career in teaching at this point. I qualify to teacher most high school sciences except for physics. I do love teaching sciences and I have a giant enthusiasm for getting kids to find science interesting. I do quite a bit of nutrition teaching at our elementary school and I get a lot of positive feedback from the kids and teachers.

So that is it for now. I still get my summers off which means I can still go to the beach with my kids everyday but do something slightly more intellectual than flipping houses. Thanks for the feedback.

And I did want to respond to jwk who wondered why I put the effort into medical school and internship just to leave...I always planned on spending time raising my kids, I just did not expect to get pregnant when I did. My loans had run out and my paychecks hadn't started and I couldn't pay the copay for my OCs that month. Go figure! Motherhood was supposed to be 5 years after residency when I could work 2-3 days a week, not 90 hours. I have no regrets. I wouldn't have had my second child if I had returned to work immediately so there is a reason it worked out the way it did.

fab4fan You are so funny! I am laughing out loud as I read your responses.

Are you nuts? "Couldn't pay the copay for my OCs?" What, $15? Just say "I wanted to have kids", because that's the only reason I can possibly think of for a sexually active young woman to knowingly go off prescribed birth control.

Hey girlfriend, I wonder how many of us are out there?

I too went to medical school, even graduated in the top of my class followed by internship at well respected university program. When "news" leaked of my unintentional pregnancy, I received lots of "advice" to "just take an afternoon off" and "take care of the problem". There were even lots of jokes that one indicator of the "best" surgical programs, were those with the highest miscarriage rates. I know we have all heard the stories of resident's rates of kidney stones secondary to dehydration; working non-deterred with raging pneumonia( and it being expected); helping with patient rounds after just receiving surgery ones self, etc.

In my case there was a pregnant woman presenting to the ER late one night with a perf'd bowel--they all thought it was me!! Ha! Ha!(knowing that I had become so dehydrated and constipated I was administering self-enemas). I was in an OB/G program, actually ranked as one of the best in the country, yet I didn't receive prenatal care. I was offered to take one hour per week though for "counseling", but no time for prenatal care. At 36 weeks I was "advised" to get an induction the following week. I was also told that although the law provided for a six week maternity leave, that in fact I would be "hated" if I took more than a two week leave.

I could keep writing for many pages more on this topic....

Call me naive, but I never expected the "Noble Profession" of medicine to have such callous attitudes and treatment of their very own. The attitudes and expectations regarding what is expected of residents goes beyond meeting the needs of patients, in fact I would argue that patients are placed in jeopardy as a result. These archaic attitudes probably served the profession well back when most of the residents were young men in their 20's with doting wives at home. It was a few years of grueling labor in exchange for a lifetime of career prosperity. It was and continues to be a "right of passage".

Problem is that now women constitute roughly 50% of medical school students. Like it or not, it is women who birth children ( and this actually should be a valued trait when you consider that one day we will all become old and will need young people to grow our food, run the country, etc.). Yet medicine has failed to evolve in its attitudes or practices to an appreciable enough extent that talented women like us aren't forced to make difficult decisions between our children and our chosen profession.
Moreover, if we chose to take a leave of absence from the profession, even with the most compelling of circumstances, there really are no career paths back.

I guess the joke is on us who worked hard and sacrificed our youths to get the grades to get into and through medical school; risked our financial futures with on average $200,000.00 in student loans only to find out that our "valuable" M.D. degree is in fact not that valuable if you do not stick to the straight and narrow, often inhumane, residency paths that worked for our physician forefathers. Further consider that U.S. medical school graduates face the very real threat that there is always another "warm body" ready and waiting from any one of thousands of medical schools worldwide to fill their U.S. residency spot, many of whom do not have student loan debt. Have you ever looked into training for U.S. graduates in another country? It is pretty difficult to even find information on the topic.

Please excuse my long and opinionated "rant". I guess you touched on a "sore" spot.:eek:

While I don't disagree with you on many points, I would argue that it's not like women are being singled out or mistreated more than men. It's just that they choose to pursue a condition (right or wrong, not judging) that requires them to take a TON of time off during residency, when everyone (men and women both) are already depending on them. Sure, it may not be an ideal system, but it's the one we've got and while women are pushing like crazy to get more and more time off for themselves when they get pregnant and have babies, men do not get that consideration and you can't blame us for resenting it some or resisting all that time off or part-time work from our partners, etc. when we didn't necessarily know it was coming. Especially when we can't trust you to be responsible enough to pony up the $15 for a prescription renewal when you claim you don't want kids.

...alright that last line was a shot off your bow, but still, you get my point.
 
this thread has gotten a little bizarre, but congrats OP on finding your niche! with your training you can potentially expose many bright kids to a career in medicine.

can you get liscenced since you've already completed an intern year? if you can I think you should consider that and maybe volunteer/moonlight when time permits.
 
When "news" leaked of my unintentional pregnancy, I received lots of "advice" to "just take an afternoon off" and "take care of the problem". There were even lots of jokes that one indicator of the "best" surgical programs, were those with the highest miscarriage rates. I know we have all heard the stories of resident's rates of kidney stones secondary to dehydration; working non-deterred with raging pneumonia( and it being expected); helping with patient rounds after just receiving surgery ones self, etc.

I was in an OB/G program, actually ranked as one of the best in the country, yet I didn't receive prenatal care. I was offered to take one hour per week though for "counseling", but no time for prenatal care. At 36 weeks I was "advised" to get an induction the following week. I was also told that although the law provided for a six week maternity leave, that in fact I would be "hated" if I took more than a two week leave.

:

More "Altruistic Self Destruction"

OB/G is heavily female, at least in terms of residents these days, was that the case with your program? If so, it's interesting that you were treated this way.

I get that men resent women for taking time off to have kids. But unless we ban women from the workplace, we have to figure out a way to deal with it. As a female who is single and never had kids, I resent ANYONE who expects me to work holidays, or stay late, because "you don't have a family". My time is not any less valuable. But I'm willing to participate in a system that allocates time off for all as fairly as possible. And I don't want to be vilified for taking time off work when I'm sick. Or recovering from surgery. That's part of life and we all deserve some consideration for that, male or female, kids or no kids. It is equally reprehensible to be expected to work with a kidney stone or pneumonia as it is to deny time off for prenatal care.

These attitudes are not unique to medicine.

What is unique to medicine is the EXPECTATION that you come to work, no matter how sick you are, regardless of your gender. And the EXPECTATION that you DO NOT take care of yourself. I've heard an attending complain about a resident leaving to go to the dentist. When we work 80 hours a week (or even 65!) when are we supposed to take care of our own health maintenance? The attendings can, because they can just block out time in their schedule. But the residents often can't. This is CRAZY. We all get sick, we're human. We didn't sign a contract upon entering medical school or residency giving up our humanity. There needs to be a way to work around the unexpected.

Part of the problem is that many programs are still set up to use residents essentially as slave labor, rather than for it to be an educational experience.

I have less of a problem with being told that you would be hated if you took more than two weeks of maternity leave (I can imagine other work settings where you might be told that) What bothers me most is your coworkers advising you to get an abortion, not being allowed to get prenatal care, and being advised to be induced. Can you imagine what would happen if a boss in Corporate America behaved that way?
 
What bothers me most is your coworkers advising you to get an abortion, not being allowed to get prenatal care, and being advised to be induced. Can you imagine what would happen if a boss in Corporate America behaved that way?

The person goes from partner track to dead-end senior associate track.

(seriously)
 
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