Question for DOs who took the USMLE

[emlopez2]

Well from what First AID said about the pass rate of DOs who took the USMLE I can only conclude that MDs typically have higher scores than DOs. For all of you DOs, how true really is this?

Right now Im a borderline honors student at NYCOM a school with not that great of boards pass rate. Im feeling that although im doing well at my school, if i take the USMLE my scores will only be less than up to par with hardly a chance of a great score. Can anyone give me some insight into this situation and what to study more of in order to compete with the MD students.

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[corpsmanUP]

Well from what First AID said about the pass rate of DOs who took the USMLE I can only conclude that MDs typically have higher scores than DOs. For all of you DOs, how true really is this?

Right now Im a borderline honors student at NYCOM a school with not that great of boards pass rate. Im feeling that although im doing well at my school, if i take the USMLE my scores will only be less than up to par with hardly a chance of a great score. Can anyone give me some insight into this situation and what to study more of in order to compete with the MD students.

I have no hard data to use to make this assertion but I will do it anyway. Your COMLEX score should correlate with your USMLE score, fortunately or unfortunately for you. Of the friends of mine, and my scores, I saw a serious parallel.

Mine:

COMLEX 1- 716 USMLE 1- 232
COMLEX 2- 724 USMLE 2- 262
COMLEX 3- 824

Good friend
COMLEX 1- 730 USMLE 1- 250
COMLEX-2 740 USMLE 2- 252

Another friend
COMLEX 1-656 USMLE 1- 224
COMLEX 2-686 USMLE 2- 231

I have found that those that do well on the COMLEX, which I consider like 650 or greater, do quite well comparatively on the USMLE. I also think that you CAN do better on the USMLE than you do on the COMLEX, but more times than not it seems people's scores either parallel or go down slightly. I can't tell you how many people barely passed the USMLE who did average on the COMLEX. I only know a couple of people that did better on the COMLEX than the USMLE.

Use review books from the first day of medical school. First Aid, Step Up, and lots of questions either through books or online. If you are cream of the crop in DO school, you are equivilant to the cream of the MD crop. The reality though is that if you are passing by the epidermis of your teethies, then you probably would never pass the USMLE and probably should not be a physician. Too many sub-par DO's make it through when if they had to pass the USMLE it would be a better measure if if they should be a physician. Just my $.02, and not trying to offend anyone.

 

[osli]

My gut feeling is that for good to great students, their USMLE and COMLEX scores are probably very comparable. Those are likely the students that know well in advance that they need to take and do well on both, and also take matters into their own hands and study accordingly. For those students, it probably doesn't matter where you go to school, or even if it is DO or MD. You'll take responsibility for your own scores. Fortunately, I feel like my schools does a very solid job of preparing students for boards, and I like the teaching style/curriculum and think it gives me a better foundation upon which to begin serious board prep. But in the end, a bright and motivated student at any DO school should be able to compete directly with MD students on the USMLE.

On the other hand, I would also guess that there are plenty of DO students who decide to take the USMLE "just in case" and do not directly prepare for it. The USMLE contains more biochem, genetics, and molecular biology than the COMLEX, and the question styles seem to vary a bit too from what multiple students have told me. Thus, a large percentage of DO students taking the USMLE are likely just not prepared adequately for it. It is little wonder that DO pass rates for the USMLE are not as high.

I think this would show up statistically as a larger standard deviation for DO takers vs. MD takers. I seriously doubt that the curve retains it shape and just slides down the scale, but rather widens especially at the bottom end. The average will be pulled down, and the standard deviation should increase significantly. Sadly I don't think that sort of data is available.

 

[blz]

Well from what First AID said about the pass rate of DOs who took the USMLE I can only conclude that MDs typically have higher scores than DOs. For all of you DOs, how true really is this?

Right now Im a borderline honors student at NYCOM a school with not that great of boards pass rate. Im feeling that although im doing well at my school, if i take the USMLE my scores will only be less than up to par with hardly a chance of a great score. Can anyone give me some insight into this situation and what to study more of in order to compete with the MD students.

of course MDs are gonna have a higher pass rate for the USMLE- that's our freakin test. im sure we'd all fail the comlex. but if you do what most DOs do on this board (study their ass off for the USMLE for like 83 months), you'd do better than the avg MD. but in the end, if you went to a DO school, don't bother with the USMLE. you went to a DO school to learn all that DO manipulation. why would you want to throw that all away and head over to the allopathic side? If i was your classmate id say you were a sell out.

 

[Terpskins99]

Well from what First AID said about the pass rate of DOs who took the USMLE I can only conclude that MDs typically have higher scores than DOs. For all of you DOs, how true really is this?

Right now Im a borderline honors student at NYCOM a school with not that great of boards pass rate. Im feeling that although im doing well at my school, if i take the USMLE my scores will only be less than up to par with hardly a chance of a great score. Can anyone give me some insight into this situation and what to study more of in order to compete with the MD students.

You need to prepare differently (read more intensely) for USMLE than you do for COMLEX. And yes, there is a significant disparity between allo and osteopathic students passing on Step I.

At my school (also osteo), we had two camps of students. There were those students that merely wanted to pass the USMLE in order to get it over with. Yeah, those guys didn't do so great and more than a couple of them failed. On the other side, you had students that prepared specifically to do well on the USMLE. As far as I know, none of those people failed... and most of them did better than the national average.

So its really up to you. You're on SDN, so you know the resources are out there for you. Plenty of DO student score well on both exams. But all of them busted their butt to do so (much to the amusement of their fellow classmates, btw ). If you're willing to push yourself to be on that level... you'll do just fine.

 

[hyperbaric]

My gut feeling is that for good to great students, their USMLE and COMLEX scores are probably very comparable. Those are likely the students that know well in advance that they need to take and do well on both, and also take matters into their own hands and study accordingly. For those students, it probably doesn't matter where you go to school, or even if it is DO or MD. You'll take responsibility for your own scores. Fortunately, I feel like my schools does a very solid job of preparing students for boards, and I like the teaching style/curriculum and think it gives me a better foundation upon which to begin serious board prep. But in the end, a bright and motivated student at any DO school should be able to compete directly with MD students on the USMLE.

Well-stated. Motivation and effort are the keys to a great score for any student.

 

[osli]

im sure we'd all fail the comlex.

I highly doubt it. Conventional wisdom seems to be prepare for the USMLE and spend a day or three reviewing OMT before the COMLEX. You might miss a lot more OMT questions than the typical DO student, but I'm sure you'd pick up at least some of the general principles that are tested with a couple of days study (it really isn't that difficult conceptually, and step 1 does not test your practical skills), and being a small portion of the test I doubt it would cause you to fail.

but in the end, if you went to a DO school, don't bother with the USMLE. you went to a DO school to learn all that DO manipulation. why would you want to throw that all away and head over to the allopathic side? If i was your classmate id say you were a sell out.

Or it might be the case the someone viewed DO and MD schools as both offering medical educations. In my case, a particular DO acceptance seemed like a better choice for a solid education than the MD acceptances I received. OMT was never that appealing to me, and it still isn't my cup of tea. It's primary benefit to me is a good way to review anatomy.

That being said, I care whether I match to DO or MD residency about as much as I cared which letters were behind my name. And matching on the DO side would likely be the easiest route... unfortunately osteopathic residency programs are fairly limited in their geographic coverage. It's not just that there are fewer of them, but that they are clumped heavily into certain regions and none to be found in others. A big factor for many when evaluating residency programs is location... if there are nothing but allo residencies within 1000 miles of where you'd prefer to be, your options are more limited.

 

[emlopez2]

in the end, if you went to a DO school, don't bother with the USMLE. you went to a DO school to learn all that DO manipulation. why would you want to throw that all away and head over to the allopathic side? If i was your classmate id say you were a sell out.

Dont get me wrong I would love to have the option of applying to a Osteopathic residency but unfortunately I would prefer to due my residency in Colorado where Im from and they only have 1 school and it is Allopathic. And since its my #1 choice of locations I have no choice but to take the USMLE if I want to get in and cant even think about applying DO since a match there would automatically bump me from the MD match. But hey thanks for your kind words of support, you sound like a real ball of sunshine

 

[beastmaster]

Well from what First AID said about the pass rate of DOs who took the USMLE I can only conclude that MDs typically have higher scores than DOs. For all of you DOs, how true really is this?

Right now Im a borderline honors student at NYCOM a school with not that great of boards pass rate. Im feeling that although im doing well at my school, if i take the USMLE my scores will only be less than up to par with hardly a chance of a great score. Can anyone give me some insight into this situation and what to study more of in order to compete with the MD students.

Try not to get caught up with the NYCOM honors game. The folks with the largest number of honors are usually not (at least not this year) the ones with the highest board scores.

 

[predodoc]

I highly doubt it. Conventional wisdom seems to be prepare for the USMLE and spend a day or three reviewing OMT before the COMLEX. You might miss a lot more OMT questions than the typical DO student, but I'm sure you'd pick up at least some of the general principles that are tested with a couple of days study (it really isn't that difficult conceptually, and step 1 does not test your practical skills), and being a small portion of the test I doubt it would cause you to fail.

Or it might be the case the someone viewed DO and MD schools as both offering medical educations. In my case, a particular DO acceptance seemed like a better choice for a solid education than the MD acceptances I received. OMT was never that appealing to me, and it still isn't my cup of tea. It's primary benefit to me is a good way to review anatomy.

That being said, I care whether I match to DO or MD residency about as much as I cared which letters were behind my name. And matching on the DO side would likely be the easiest route... unfortunately osteopathic residency programs are fairly limited in their geographic coverage. It's not just that there are fewer of them, but that they are clumped heavily into certain regions and none to be found in others. A big factor for many when evaluating residency programs is location... if there are nothing but allo residencies within 1000 miles of where you'd prefer to be, your options are more limited.

Location is the main reason I took usmle. In Georgia where I am there are like 2 family med DO residencies AND THATS IT. Even in the entire south east(except Florida) there are very few DO residencies and most if not all are Family Med. Since I dont know what I want to do, but I do know I want to stay as close to Georgia as possible, taking the usmle was a no brainer.

 

[peppy]

Personally, I did significantly better on the USMLE than I did on the COMLEX!
I have very little enthusiasm for OMT and I think that's what brought me down on the COMLEX.
In any case, I think if you take the advice of the folks on this board about prepping, there's no reason you can't do well on the USMLE.

 

[osli]

Location is the main reason I took usmle. In Georgia where I am there are like 2 family med DO residencies AND THATS IT. Even in the entire south east(except Florida) there are very few DO residencies and most if not all are Family Med. Since I dont know what I want to do, but I do know I want to stay as close to Georgia as possible, taking the usmle was a no brainer.

Same boat here. I'd like to stay in the SouthEast. Plenty of residency options there... just not AOA.

 

[lilzelda2]

Try not to get caught up with the NYCOM honors game. The folks with the largest number of honors are usually not (at least not this year) the ones with the highest board scores.

I was just wondering how you came to the conclusion that those that got honors usually weren't the ones that scored high on the Comlex, is it just word of mouth and a generalization or NYCOM told you this? Also how did your class do on the COMLEX/USMLE as an average?

 

[Phallacious]

ANOTHER STUPID THREAD FULL OF MISCONCEPTIONS-

The tests are very similar, nearly identical w/ the exception of roughly 10 or so OMM questions. In contrast to what Blz and what probably much of the public at large believe, they teach the same crap at DO schools as they do at MD schools plus OMM.

The COMLEX is not an OMM heavy test based on my one day experience taking it. It is a well written test despite people's assertions to the contrary. And let me repeat: the test does not go overboard w/ obscure OMM questions. Most of the OMM questions are BIG PICTURE and general concept type. Example: Counterstrain is a (a) direct technique (b) indirect technique (c) neither .....

my scores:

COMLEX 586
USMLE 232

 

[Doctor]

why would you want to throw that all away and head over to the allopathic side? If i was your classmate id say you were a sell out.

Throw that all away? How does taking an allopathic residency throw OMT away? I'm pretty sure that one already knows how to perform (and how to bill Medicare for) "DO manipulation" after the medical school portion of their career.

 

[beastmaster]

I was just wondering how you came to the conclusion that those that got honors usually weren't the ones that scored high on the Comlex, is it just word of mouth and a generalization or NYCOM told you this? Also how did your class do on the COMLEX/USMLE as an average?

I have no idea, I don't have contact with all 300 students. The school keeps the records, and by extension there's probably a few students who brown-nosed with the right people who also have some insider info. I'm not one of them. As far as the conclusions I've drawn, they are generalizations from the fraction of my class that I know well enough. And generally speaking there is something wrong with people who honor every class. If you're consistently scoring very high on exams written by people who aren't trained to write test questions (ie, visiting lecturers, not their fault really), it means you're studying wrong and the board exams will make you pay for it.