Question for Fellows/senior residents: big name vs. small name -- and finding a job.

[flower12]

The answer seems rather obvious, but I am curious to hear your opinion.

I am a fourth year med student going into path and luvin it--but I am *very* stressed out about ranking programs for the Match, because people are giving me conflicting advice.

One department director told me that there are so many jobs available for pathologists, I could easily attend a program that has a "small name" and could have my pick of a job after residency. I happen to like one "small name" program for several reasons, but I worry that the department director's advice is not a reflection of the reality of the job market. Many residents and fellows tell me that I need to go to the program with the "biggest name" possible.

Personally, the training is far more important to me than the name of the program. However, I have to find a job after residency. How much of a difference does the "name" make when job-searching, particularly in private practice?

Please share with me your opinion, or what you have heard from others--I really need to gather as much information as I can before making such an important decision. I appreciate your time and help.

Thanks!!!

Flower12

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[LADoc00]

The answer seems rather obvious, but I am curious to hear your opinion.

I am a fourth year med student going into path and luvin it--but I am *very* stressed out about ranking programs for the Match, because people are giving me conflicting advice.

One department director told me that there are so many jobs available for pathologists, I could easily attend a program that has a "small name" and could have my pick of a job after residency. I happen to like one "small name" program for several reasons, but I worry that the department director's advice is not a reflection of the reality of the job market. Many residents and fellows tell me that I need to go to the program with the "biggest name" possible.

Personally, the training is far more important to me than the name of the program. However, I have to find a job after residency. How much of a difference does the "name" make when job-searching, particularly in private practice?

Please share with me your opinion, or what you have heard from others--I really need to gather as much information as I can before making such an important decision. I appreciate your time and help.

Thanks!!!

Flower12

Go to a big name fellowship if you that worried. Personally, it is a FAR better to be a cool, likeable, communicative and overall well put together (this is IMO absolutely key) applicant from a smaller program than a no personality troll, non drinker (this can be huge) with a poor grasp of proper English from a "big name."

 

[beary]

Personally, it is a FAR better to be a cool, likeable, communicative and overall well put together (this is IMO absolutely key) applicant from a smaller program than a no personality troll, non drinker (this can be huge) with a poor grasp of proper English from a "big name."

Guess I'm screwed since I don't drink.

That really takes the pressure off assemling a rank list.

 

[yaah]

Go to a big name fellowship if you that worried. Personally, it is a FAR better to be a cool, likeable, communicative and overall well put together (this is IMO absolutely key) applicant from a smaller program than a no personality troll, non drinker (this can be huge) with a poor grasp of proper English from a "big name."

This is so true and yet so many people fail to grasp it. Instead of going to a program where they will be happy, that fits their personality, and is in a place where they want to live, they will sacrifice and go to a big name and suffer for four years. The vast majority of people looking to hire someone do not look specifically at your pedigree. They look at you - do you work with others, do you know your stuff, can you learn new things, adapt, etc. If you went to Prestigious University and are a total prick you probably have a better chance of landing a job than if you went to ******* University and are a total prick. But that is only because there are a handful of ignorami out there who see someone acting like a prick, see the pedigree, and overlook the prick-like behavior. But this is only temporary. Everyone ends up hating the prick in the long run and they merely tolerate them.

People always ask - "What is the best program" as if there is some kind of magic list that applies to everyone. The correct answer, albeit the one that no one wants to hear, is that everyone's list is different. Where programs match up for you depends on your personality type, learning style, lifestyle choices, ability to work with others, the need to be "famous" or the need to have a "pedigree," as well as location and the faculty there. At my program, we have excellent residents and fellows (and attendings) who came from places that are not well known or famous. It doesn't matter.

Go where you want to, and make your own prestige.

 

[uhoh!]

Go to a big name fellowship if you that worried

Point. anywhere you go for residency, you have the opportunity to make your own launchpad or dig your own grave.

 

[pathdawg]

Go where you want to, and make your own prestige.

Very well stated. Where one trains is incredibly overrated. Choosing a residency is a very personal choice. Everyone has their own priorities. My advice is to be true to yourself and go from there. In the private practice realm, nobody is really going to care where you did your residency or fellowship, just as they don't care where you went to med school or college. People are more interested in what skills you can offer and in what kind of colleague you are.

 

[drPLUM]

One thing I wanted to interject here...

I have been told that one of the easiest ways to find a job is to connect with people who trained at your program. Given this fact, it seems that going to a program with a larger alumni base might make it easier to find a job.

This isn't so much a big-name vs small name point, as many "small names" have been around a long time and have plenty of alumni, but something to consider nonetheless.

 

[yaah]

One thing I wanted to interject here...

I have been told that one of the easiest ways to find a job is to connect with people who trained at your program. Given this fact, it seems that going to a program with a larger alumni base might make it easier to find a job.

This isn't so much a big-name vs small name point, as many "small names" have been around a long time and have plenty of alumni, but something to consider nonetheless.

That is a good point, however, it is more relevant in terms of the area you want to practice. Training at a certain program means that private practice or academics in that area are likely to be very familiar with your program and the people in it. For example: pathologists in Michigan are more likely to be familiar with Michigan programs because they send their consults there and deal with them for other issues (sendout cases, conferences, etc).

Any program that has residents is by default a decently large program (in comparison to the private practice world at large), and liable to receive consults and transfer cases, etc. So this almost always applies.

 

[miko2005]

I was wandering about volume at smaller programs? I interviewed at one small program where the surgical specimen volume was about 13,000 and they have about 12 residents for all 4 years (3/year). Maybe number wise its okay, but how can I know if the variety is there? Do you need to see a lot to learn a lot???

Also, if you want to go into academics, it seems that there are more research opportunities at bigger name places.

 

[Aubrey]

Another consideration that I've heard about is your eventual preferences for practice location.. i.e., if you know that you want a job in south FL one day, then do your residency in Miami, all other factors being equal.


Dammit yaah, you beat me to it by 1 lousy minute!!

 

[LADoc00]

BTW, your name is flower12???

No, no, Im sorry, that is just wrong.

Please lets keep the path handles at least somewhat cool, try: Slayer12, Snakeyes12, Brucelee12, Kungfugrip12 or any number of '12' associated tricked out names.

Flower12 is best left posting in the primary care forums.

 

[pathdawg]

BTW, your name is flower12???

No, no, Im sorry, that is just wrong.

Please lets keep the path handles at least somewhat cool, try: Slayer12, Snakeyes12, Brucelee12, Kungfugrip12 or any number of '12' associated tricked out names.

Flower12 is best left posting in the primary care forums.

May I suggest "Deathwish12". Thats pretty badass (for that matter, "badass12" would work just fine).

Honestly, "Flower12" would work better in the gyn or peds forum. We have a reputation to protect over here in pathology.

 

[yaah]

I was wandering about volume at smaller programs? I interviewed at one small program where the surgical specimen volume was about 13,000 and they have about 12 residents for all 4 years (3/year). Maybe number wise its okay, but how can I know if the variety is there? Do you need to see a lot to learn a lot???

It is an important question to ask. I guess one could get at it by asking if the residents pass their boards or not. Or if they all end up doing fellowships at larger places in surg path. Those numbers sound a bit small - I heard from a few sources that finding a place with >20,000 surgicals per year is advisable. Some disagree with that number and base their view on the number of residents. There aren't many programs out there with fewer than 3 residents per year, so that is at the smaller end.

Also, if you want to go into academics, it seems that there are more research opportunities at bigger name places.

In general, that would be correct. But not always. It's a safe bet though, if you go to a large academic center, that you will have more opportunities for research.

 

[LADoc00]

May I suggest "Deathwish12". Thats pretty badass (for that matter, "badass12" would work just fine).

Honestly, "Flower12" would work better in the gyn or peds forum. We have a reputation to protect over here in pathology.

I concur, I vote Flower12 to be banned from this forum. Seriously, I dont want Anes. and Rads thinking we are all wimps.

Other cool names: Helterskelter12, Doom12, Smaug12, Minotaur12, Ninjamasta12, Imgonnagitusucka12

Other bannable names: Unicorn12, forestsprite12, lipstick12, tampon12, waterlily12, mylittlepony12

 

[SoCuteMD]

I concur, I vote Flower12 to be banned from this forum. Seriously, I dont want Anes. and Rads thinking we are all wimps.

Other cool names: Helterskelter12, Doom12, Smaug12, Minotaur12, Ninjamasta12, Imgonnagitusucka12

Other bannable names: Unicorn12, forestsprite12, lipstick12, tampon12, waterlily12, mylittlepony12

so feminine=wimp in the eyes of pathologists?

 

[LADoc00]

so feminine=wimp in the eyes of pathologists?

Sheesh, dont go all N.O.W. on us, this is good clean fun. Im sure my lifetime membership in the Rainbow coalition is now in jeopardy, oh my!

Anyway, socute12 should also be added to banned list.

 

[Aubrey]

 

[deschutes]

so feminine=wimp in the eyes of pathologists?

More like, when making your choice of user ID, please be prepared to stand by it and take flak for it in a free-for-all!

 

[drPLUM]

Nothing like drivel and thread-derailing on the path forum.

 

[flower12]

Thanks everyone who helped answer my question, I value your honest input and I'm already feeling better about this.


Oh, and those of you dissin my screenname...

i hate peds!!! how insulting.
ugh...clinical medicine (including rads) is such an unthinkable horror. I'm hardcore path, and so what, I happen to like flowers. I highly recommend you get some flowers to cheer you up because you seem awfully grumpy.

 

[LADoc00]

Thanks everyone who helped answer my question, I value your honest input and I'm already feeling better about this.


Oh, and those of you dissin my screenname...

i hate peds!!! how insulting.
ugh...clinical medicine (including rads) is such an unthinkable horror. I'm hardcore path, and so what, I happen to like flowers. I highly recommend you get some flowers to cheer you up because you seem awfully grumpy.

Hilarious! I spit coffee out my nose on reading that. Cant you change it to a cool sounding flower, howbout Wildorchid12?

 

[drPLUM]

flower12,

I am also hardcore path. I will keep it real and bring the pathology pain if anyone tries to step to me, and that includes rads, peds, whoever. Oh, and rad onc... I just saw you flinch; Now I'm in your head.

Seriously though, glad to have you on the board. And your question was one that many here were also wondering about.

 

[deschutes]

I think a Hot Blonde Californian Babe in A String Bikini would please LADoc00 more than flowers.

 

[SoCuteMD]

Sheesh, dont go all N.O.W. on us, this is good clean fun. Im sure my lifetime membership in the Rainbow coalition is now in jeopardy, oh my!

Anyway, socute12 should also be added to banned list.

Ahhhh, you are bitter that you have to walk the wards to find any cute/feminine companions. I get it now .

 

[AngryTesticle]

I vote for 12footcock(around)

 

[pathdawg]

Hilarious! I spit coffee out my nose on reading that. Cant you change it to a cool sounding flower, howbout Wildorchid12?

How 'bout "venusflytrap12"?