Mar 7, 2013
41
0
Status
Pre-Medical
I also had a question on residency programs. Does your medical school play apart in where you are placed for residency? after all my reading, it seems a lot of schools have students that match around the school itself. But overall my question is, if you do great in medical school with great letters and scores etc, will you match to a great residency program? I'm just wondering if your school name carries a little weight when going for residencies even if you have outstanding scores.
 

swamprat

10+ Year Member
Jul 25, 2008
1,701
165
Status
Attending Physician
Yes it def matters.. With that being said good board scores third year grades AOA status can make up for it to some degree but the kids from Harvard will always have an edge IMO
 

trojanman217

7+ Year Member
Aug 8, 2011
60
2
Status
Medical Student
There is also region bias. For example, if you look at schools in the midwest they tend to match students in the midwest. This is consistent for most schools.
 

Ja3ger

The Red Viper
Aug 17, 2013
180
54
Dorne
Status
Pre-Medical
There is also region bias. For example, if you look at schools in the midwest they tend to match students in the midwest. This is consistent for most schools.
How do you reconcile this with the fact that many if not a majority of those med students have families and support networks in the Midwest as well?
 

thefritz

thefritz
Oct 28, 2009
574
95
Status
Medical Student
How do you reconcile this with the fact that many if not a majority of those med students have families and support networks in the Midwest as well?
As someone going through the match process now, regional bias is a major, if not the major, factor in where you will be invited to interview. If you do not have any connections to a certain location, it is very unlikely you will be invited to interview there. I applied all over the country, and all but a single interview I was offered was within driving distance. Residency programs do not want to waste time inviting people who will not rank them highly because they have no ties to the region, and even more importantly, they do not want to match candidates from the opposite coast who will be miserable and quit halfway through so they can move closer to their family. If you are deadset on doing residency in a certain location you have never lived before and have no family in, you should attend a nearby medical school.
 

Ja3ger

The Red Viper
Aug 17, 2013
180
54
Dorne
Status
Pre-Medical
As someone going through the match process now, regional bias is a major, if not the major, factor in where you will be invited to interview. If you do not have any connections to a certain location, it is very unlikely you will be invited to interview there. I applied all over the country, and all but a single interview I was offered was within driving distance. Residency programs do not want to waste time inviting people who will not rank them highly because they have no ties to the region, and even more importantly, they do not want to match candidates from the opposite coast who will be miserable and quit halfway through so they can move closer to their family. If you are deadset on doing residency in a certain location you have never lived before and have no family in, you should attend a nearby medical school.
That makes sense; however, I don't see how that necessarily rules out the possibility that most of those who matched in the Midwest did so because they *wanted* to - unless that's not you meant to imply.

It seems to me, then, that the more relevant question is the following: if you grew up and attended college on the east coast, how much more of an advantage will you get from going to an east coast medical school than if you go to a Midwest/Texas/Cali school - with the goal of matching to the east coast, that is?

I know it may depend on the specific schools in question, but I'm sure you get my point. I think an interesting scenario would be a premed choosing between the aforementioned schools but who does not know where he'd like to end up for residency. Generally speaking, wouldn't going to school in a region to which you didn't have ties give you the most options come applying for residency?
 

BurberryDoc

Account on Hold
Account on Hold
Jun 7, 2013
2,267
376
Pawnee, IN
As someone going through the match process now, regional bias is a major, if not the major, factor in where you will be invited to interview. If you do not have any connections to a certain location, it is very unlikely you will be invited to interview there. I applied all over the country, and all but a single interview I was offered was within driving distance. Residency programs do not want to waste time inviting people who will not rank them highly because they have no ties to the region, and even more importantly, they do not want to match candidates from the opposite coast who will be miserable and quit halfway through so they can move closer to their family. If you are deadset on doing residency in a certain location you have never lived before and have no family in, you should attend a nearby medical school.
This doesn't seem to be true at all. Take a look at the match list for UMiami - it is literally in the corner of the country, but they have a very nice geographical spread from coast to coast in all the residency categories. You can also do away rotations / electives at hospitals you are interested in matching to.
 

mcloaf

7+ Year Member
Jan 21, 2012
5,176
4,648
Status
Resident [Any Field]
As someone going through the match process now, regional bias is a major, if not the major, factor in where you will be invited to interview. If you do not have any connections to a certain location, it is very unlikely you will be invited to interview there. I applied all over the country, and all but a single interview I was offered was within driving distance. Residency programs do not want to waste time inviting people who will not rank them highly because they have no ties to the region, and even more importantly, they do not want to match candidates from the opposite coast who will be miserable and quit halfway through so they can move closer to their family. If you are deadset on doing residency in a certain location you have never lived before and have no family in, you should attend a nearby medical school.
I think this is a little extreme. After our home program the next two places my school matches the most grads are both on the other side of the country.
 

HelpPleaseMD

7+ Year Member
Aug 4, 2011
1,057
234
Status
Resident [Any Field]
attending a great school is more of an advantage if you are in the middle of your graduating class as residency directors will give you the benefit of the doubt.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ksmi117

Syndicate

5+ Year Member
Nov 3, 2013
593
264
Status
Pre-Medical
I don't think geographic region matters as much as people think. The match list for BU has very few MGH and Brigham & women's candidates.
 

trojanman217

7+ Year Member
Aug 8, 2011
60
2
Status
Medical Student
You can also do away rotations / electives at hospitals you are interested in matching to.
This is what I heard is the best way of matching outside your region. If you do a couple away rotations in the same area, residency directors will see you have an interest in that area
 
  • Like
Reactions: BurberryDoc

thefritz

thefritz
Oct 28, 2009
574
95
Status
Medical Student
Exactly. It is definitely possible to go coast-to-coast, but you need to either have family in the area or do an away rotation to demonstrate interest. If you shotgun it all over the country, you're going to end up with most of your interviews close to home.

Going to Cali without ever having been there before is kind of a special situation though. It's exceedingly difficult, and you need both a connection and stellar app, and even then it's a crapshoot.
 

thefritz

thefritz
Oct 28, 2009
574
95
Status
Medical Student
I don't think geographic region matters as much as people think. The match list for BU has very few MGH and Brigham & women's candidates.
Geographic region is not THAT narrow.

Their match list is here: http://www.bumc.bu.edu/busm-osa/files/2013/03/Match-Results-all-matches-hospitals-and-programs-only-for-posting.pdf

Most are in the northeast somewhere.
My feeling is that most who go to Cali have ties to Cali. Remember that Cali med schools are extremely competitive and Cali residents go to med school all over the country.
 

Law2Doc

5K+ Member
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Dec 20, 2004
30,981
9,887
Status
Attending Physician
I don't think geographic region matters as much as people think. The match list for BU has very few MGH and Brigham & women's candidates.
First, as discussed in other threads, regional bias is really about "nexus", will th person come if we rank him, based on his connection to the area. You can have nexuses from lots of different things besides college. Your family is here, your SO is here, you did multiple away rotations here, you did research here, etc. Second, the Harvard hospitals are big names in many specialties, so they have fewer real competitors for matches. They don't have the same concern that they won't get their top ten off their rank list as a smaller hospital might, so they won't really care if you are coming from Boston or Kansas. But the reverse, Kansas, is going to worry more if someone from Boston applies to them seemingly on a whim.

In truth there is a home school bias for a number of reasons. First some places have a policy of automatically granting it's home med students an interview. So those people will always generally be someplace on the rank list. Might not be top, but that's some slight statistical preference. Additionally, you are far more likely to have LORs that are coming from people the PD has heard of or knows. So that helps too. And if you networked right, you will know all your interviewers already before the interview, which can be big benefit, although that also means your rotation is really a month long job interview, which can be stressful.

But bear in mind that most people applying to med school dont really know what field they want to go into, end will change their minds at least once. No place is the best, or even solid, in every field. Every program has a glaring weakness, and that could be the field you ultimately decide you'd enjoy most. So picking a Med school to try and game where you want to end up in residency usually won't pan out. Even at the best ranked med schools people are mostly ranking other hospitals programs highest. Relatively few people never move. So I think if you are looking at med school based on where you want to do residency you probably are doing it wrong. In fact, as you progress in training, you will find that to end up in a certain place you sometimes have to take a very circuitous and counterintuitive route.
 

TimesNewRoman

5+ Year Member
May 14, 2013
2,519
2,338
Status
Attending Physician
As someone going through the match process now, regional bias is a major, if not the major, factor in where you will be invited to interview. If you do not have any connections to a certain location, it is very unlikely you will be invited to interview there. I applied all over the country, and all but a single interview I was offered was within driving distance. Residency programs do not want to waste time inviting people who will not rank them highly because they have no ties to the region, and even more importantly, they do not want to match candidates from the opposite coast who will be miserable and quit halfway through so they can move closer to their family. If you are deadset on doing residency in a certain location you have never lived before and have no family in, you should attend a nearby medical school.

You're making a bigger deal of this than reality. I'm an intern now. I went to a med school with no name recognition (read:state school, relatively new, bottom quarter of research funding). I killed my boards, got great grades, AOA and great rec letters. I got interviews everywhere. There were two programs in NYC I was competitive for and didn't get an interview, that was likely regional bias.

No one says "oh, you're from the west coast/south/NYC/wherever, you probably don't want to go to Harvard/Hopkins/Stanford. They may say "you're from NYC, you probably don't want to come to middle Tennessee state...."

To those of you who are premeds with big eyes for big names, remember that almost no jobs care where you went to med school. And Freddie and Fannie certainly don't care. All they care is that you end up paying back that whopping six figure debt, +/- undergrad debt.

Reimbursement in medicine is changing. A degree from Harvard would be great and all, but if it changes your debt load significantly, it's not worth it. The financial decisions you make now will greatly affect the rest of your life.

This is coming from someone who, again, went to state school because it was crazy cheap, lived at home part time, worked off jobs and made it out with under 6 figures of debt with minimal help from my family. It can be done.
 
  • Like
Reactions: solitarius

mvenus929

10+ Year Member
Jul 6, 2006
6,855
1,629
Status
Fellow [Any Field]
As someone going through the match process now, regional bias is a major, if not the major, factor in where you will be invited to interview. If you do not have any connections to a certain location, it is very unlikely you will be invited to interview there. I applied all over the country, and all but a single interview I was offered was within driving distance. Residency programs do not want to waste time inviting people who will not rank them highly because they have no ties to the region, and even more importantly, they do not want to match candidates from the opposite coast who will be miserable and quit halfway through so they can move closer to their family. If you are deadset on doing residency in a certain location you have never lived before and have no family in, you should attend a nearby medical school.
As someone also on the interview trail, I disagree. I've been offered just as many interviews out west as I have out east. It is dependent more on the interests of the applicant and the program in question than it is to regional ties. There was a huge thread in the eras forum about this recently, and the IM program people there specifically stated that they don't care so much about ties to the area.
 

solitarius

7+ Year Member
May 20, 2010
1,344
923
Status
Medical Student
Can you personally rank which was tougher on your quality of life: third year, intern, resident?

TIA
 

Law2Doc

5K+ Member
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Dec 20, 2004
30,981
9,887
Status
Attending Physician
Can you personally rank which was tougher on your quality of life: third year, intern, resident?

TIA
Intern year >>>>>>>>>>residency>>>>> third year. Third year only seems hard because you have no frame of reference. it's a joke compared to intern year. Most of life is, actually. (and I actually didn't hate intern year, but certainly wouldn't dare downplay it).
 
  • Like
Reactions: solitarius

AkGrown84

5+ Year Member
Jun 26, 2013
313
136
Philadelphia, PA
Status
Medical Student
This is a pivotal question for me, as regardless of where I end up (looks like either Philadelphia or Washington state at this point), I'll be moving a considerable distance away from family. The only residency in my home state is a Family Practice residency, and I don't anticipate me going that route (of course, that could change...I just don't see myself there). We've determined that if we were to go to Philly and end up really liking it, we wouldn't mind doing residency there. BUT....if we don't like it, I'd really hate to be basically stuck there because that's where I went to school. I also don't want to do very many away rotations, as I have 4 kids, and will already be missing out a lot by going to school. Minimizing the time away from them will be one of my goals.

Besides away rotations, are there really any other ways to be seriously considered for rotations in a significantly different geographic location (I'd most likely be looking at the Pacific Northwest, Arizona, or Florida as we have family in all those locations)?!
 

SouthernSurgeon

Lifetime Donor
10+ Year Member
Dec 17, 2008
4,363
8,300
Status
Resident [Any Field]
As someone going through the match process now, regional bias is a major, if not the major, factor in where you will be invited to interview. If you do not have any connections to a certain location, it is very unlikely you will be invited to interview there. I applied all over the country, and all but a single interview I was offered was within driving distance. Residency programs do not want to waste time inviting people who will not rank them highly because they have no ties to the region, and even more importantly, they do not want to match candidates from the opposite coast who will be miserable and quit halfway through so they can move closer to their family. If you are deadset on doing residency in a certain location you have never lived before and have no family in, you should attend a nearby medical school.
That's a bit of an overstatement, and it obviously depends a lot on the strength of the candidate as well as the competitiveness of the residency program.

I got interview offers from Cali, NYC, Boston, the midwest, and the deep south. In fact one of my few rejections was from UNC, despite the fact that I grew up and attended school in the South.