Questions about PCAT and PharmD admissions

[Amith]

Hey guys, I'm new to this forum so please excuse my ignorance if some of these questions have been asked before (as Im sure they have). Anyways, I have decided to apply for the Pharm D program at University of Houston for fall 2004. Their app deadline is feb/2004.
Im just starting on my science classes, but I have to take the PCAT in oct. At that time I'll have chem 1 and 2 behind me, and will be taking bio 1 and organc 1. My question is, is it unrealistic to expect a good score without having completed my organic chems and biology classes? It's the bio and chem sections that worry me, since Ive already taken the gre and done very well on the math/verbal sections on there. I just finished ordering the barron's pcat review book, so I'll be looking over that as soon as it arrives.
My other question relates to the admissions process. I'm worried that my lack of background in this field will really hurt my chances of getting in With my undergrad in computer science, and no pharmacy work experience do you guys think it'll really hurt my chances? I mean, they don't require pharmaceutical experience, but all the same I wonder how many people that apply have that under their belt.
And lastly, I was thinking of squeezing in some volunteer work at a pharmacy in the fall if I really had to, between work and classes. Do you guys suggest going to a hospital, or a local pharmacy? Or somewhere else? How does the whole volunteer thing work? do you get to pick how many hours you come in?

Sorry if my questions are redundant, but Im new to this whole thing! Thanks in advance for any advice

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[pharmangel]

When I took the PCAT, I thought the materials from General Chemistry and Human Physiology courses helped me the most on the Chemistry and Biology sections of the test.

As for volunteering, let me tell you my story. During the summer that I decided to apply for pharmacy school, I drove around town stopping by every retail pharmacy store, all the clinics that had a pharmacy inside, and all the hospital pharmacies. I told them that I was applying for pharmacy school and that I wanted to voluteer to get some experiences. They all gave me weird looks and said that there's no such thing as voluteering in the pharmacy. They said if I wanted experiences then I would just have to apply and work. Needless to say, I ended up gettting a job as a pharmacy clerk for a retail chain store. So there you go.....that's my story Good luck finding a voluteer position. BTW, don't let my story scare you....I didn't mean to. I guess I didn't look at the right place or maybe I just wasn't lucky enough.....who knows.....

 

[chunkyb]

Welcome.

I don't think that it's entirely realistic for you to write the PCAT as early as October. The PCAT is not particularly difficult, but you will find that you will be racing through the chemistry section.
It may be better if you wait until the January test so that you will at least have one one semester of orgo. Most schools accept test scores from January anyway.
Even though different schools look at the PCAT scores differently, I think that it's a good idea to aim for a very high chemistry, bio, and math scores.

If you do decide to take the test in October anyway, focus on orgo nomenclature, stereochemistry, and the various organic reactions.
As for the bio, I'm sure that you can review the stuff on your own over the summer. It's actually quite easy. There is some stuff on ecology covered, but it's pretty minimal. Try to really focus on cell biology and human physiology in your review.

As for volunteering, working at either is fine but my recommendation would be to work at a pharmacy. This may really help to 'up' your non-academic profile, since you'll have actual pharmacy experience. If you can get a volunteer position in hosital pharmacy, that would be ideal. Most volunteer commitments are 3-4 hour shifts during the weekdays, during the day or evenings. Make sure that you don't let working interfere with getting top marks. Afterall, your grades are the most important thing to helping you get into pharm school. Pharm schools usually look at these first and weigh their decisions, based most heavily on this area.

 

[Brill]

I applied to and was accepted at the University of Houston with basically no direct pharmacy experience. The professor who interviewed me commented about it but said it was no big deal at all. So like you said, it's not required, but having some pharmacy experience will not only help your chance for admission, it will also give you the opportunity to make sure pharmacy is for you if you're having any doubts.

 

[Brill]

"It may be better if you wait until the January test so that you will at least have one one semester of orgo. Most schools accept test scores from January anyway."

Starting this next application cycle (for Fall '04 admission) the October test is the latest you can take the PCAT for UH.

 

[ucdbiochem]

Amith:

i have the same story as pharmangel.

i wanted to volunteer at a local retail pharmacy last summer. so i opened up the phone book and made some calls. i called up almost all the pharmacies out there. Rite-aid, long drugs, wal-mart, bel-air, walgreens, etc. you name it, i called it. they all refused to take volunteers because of confidentiality and insurance crap. but one lady was kind enough to suggest me to try calling those independent pharmacies. and guess what? i ended up volunteering at an independent Rx which happens to be really close to my place.

so besides trying those retail and hospital Rx, do try the independent Rx.

as to whether you should get Rx experience, i think you should do it. 2 reasons: letter of rec and experience.
but i think the ultimate reason to volunteer/work at a pharmacy is for yourself. you need to know if this profession is for you before you get into it. otherwise, you'll just waste your time and money.

also, there are people who find pharmacy boring. (as discussed in other threads) i think part of the reason is because they didn't invest enough time to check out the profession. if they knew pharmacy was boring, they would have gone to other careers. sure, there are people who do it for the money and don't care if it's boring or not. that' fine as long as they can live with that.

so good luck to your decision.

 

[Brill]

"as to whether you should get Rx experience, i think you should do it. 2 reasons: letter of rec and experience. "

That's one thing I forgot about. The Univ. of Houston does require a letter of recommendation from a pharmacist so unless you happen to know someone who will write you one then you'll need to get some experience in a pharmacy somewhere.

 

[dgroulx]

The PCAT doesn't have a whole lot of organic on it. I had about 1/2 a semester of organic I, when I took the test and didn't see anything that I hadn't seen in class.

I'd be more worried about only having Bio I, but this can be overcome by getting the audio learn tapes. I bought these and listened to them a few times. They covered just about everything on the PCAT for biology and chemistry. My husband had to listen to them while we were driving. I think he could have taken the PCAT and done well and he hasn't taken any science courses.

 

[phar]

if i am correct, most pharmacy schools don't require the pcat.

 

[Triangulation]

So like you said, it's not required, but having some pharmacy experience will not only help your chance for admission, it will also give you the opportunity to make sure pharmacy is for you if you're having any doubts.

here, here!!

Working in retail pharm has only strengthened the confidence in my decision to go into pharm and this the aspect of pharmacy i like the least. Counseling people who come to the pharmacy is immensely satisfying. It fuels your engine to get more knowledge about everything health related, bc you'll get asked about anything remotely health related. You'll also gain the invaluable skill of calming people down when they come to you freaking about something.

 

[jdpharmd?]

Originally posted by phar
if i am correct, most pharmacy schools don't require the pcat.

In California that's true, of course. I've seen quite a few schools in other states that still require it. 3 of the 4 schools that I applied to required it, and at the 4th it was "optional". It doesn't hurt to take it, except that stupid fee, and they make you go somewhere to take it at 8am on a saturday morning. If you're strong applicant, I'd guess that you would have no problem with the test. Many people on this forum are around the 95th percentile or above...

Jd

 

[Brill]

If he plans on applying to UH like he said then he'll have to take it.

 

[dgroulx]

If any school you are even thinking about applying to requires the PCAT, you should take it. People don't always get into their 1st choice of schools and it's always good to have a backup plan.

 

[Amith]

wow lots of replies so fast..thanx Brill, if you don't mind me asking, how did you explain having a letter of recommendation w/o haveing work experience in a pharmacy? I'm really worried with this horrible economy in dallas, that I won't be able to find anything, least of all a pharm. related job or a letter of recommendation. Ive already started calling around, but what to do if I cant come up with anything before the end of the year?
Also, can you guys suggest some good prep materials for the bio/chem sections of pcat? Dgroulx, what audio tapes did you study?

 

[Brill]

I work at a hospital and I'm in a position where everyone knows me, so I'm good friends with the clinical pharmacist that works there. If you can't find any work in a pharmacy, you should be able to find somewhere that will let you volunteer, especially at hospitals. I know that at my hospital we have volunteers in the pharmacy.

For the PCAT materials I actually found that the Kaplan MCAT study guide does a good job with the reviews for biology, inorganic and organic chemistry. I could never find a book that was dedicated soley to the PCAT as far as review materials go. The Barron's book has a lot of good practice questions in the PCAT format, but no review material.

 

[jdpharmd?]

I used barrons, and I liked it. It was mostly just practice stuff, but it kind of calmed me down (they seemed so easy).

Jd

 

[LVPharm]

For what it's worth, I saw Kaplan and ARCO PCAT books at Borders a while back....I did use a Kaplan book for the GRE Biology test years ago, and it did a good job at helping me prep. I just wanted to make a pittance of a contribution to this thread, since everyone seems to be doing a very good job at sharing info

 

[dgroulx]

Originally posted by Amith
Dgroulx, what audio tapes did you study?

I used the PCAT Audio Learn by Shahrad Yazdani. You can get the tapes at Amazon for $99.

For books, I used Barron's for practice tests. They are in the same format as the PCAT, which helps alleviate stress. When I opened my PCAT booklet and it looked familiar, my heart rate dropped back down to normal. The Barron's questions are very easy. The PCAT is harder, but it's not that bad.

I did not have any letters of rec from a pharmacist. My letters were all from profs. Just check the requirements for each school that you are appying to. Or, look for a school that is a good fit for you. I chose a school who put more emphasis on grades and PCAT scores, than experience because that was a better fit for me. In fact, they even said that pharmacy experience will not help you get in if you have average academics.

 

[phuture pharmer]

As far as PCAT prep goes, I really enjoyed Barron's "How to prepare for the PCAT" 2nd edition. The most useful feature was the outlines given for the chem, bio and math sections. They were pretty detailed and covered the material given on the real test in my opinion. For the most part, I was able to utilize the college texts I already owned to study all of the outline topics.
The practice tests were a really nice feature as well and did a pretty good job of approximating the exam.

 

[hmtran]

I'd say if you brush up on your math (just a little bit ) and study the MCAT books, you'd do more than fine on the PCAT. I practiced on the Math section in Barnes and Noble in the Barron's book I think, and I only missed 2. It's soooo easy....probably comparable to the SAT's. Well anyways, the score is also dependent on other pharm students taking it too, so it's hard to get an idea how you'll score on the practice test. But compared to the MCAT, the PCAT is a walk in the park. So I would suggest taking MCAT prep tests, brush up on your math, maybe review the verbal sections for the SATs for the analogies/vocabulary, and you'll do more than fine....

 

[dgroulx]

Good advice about the math. That was my worst score on my PCAT. There was a lot of geometry. Not that it is hard, but it had been 30 years since I'd taken it. Make sure you memorize all those formulas for area and volume of various shapes.

 

[Iryna]

Hi, there!
I've got a question. Has anyone taken the PCAT review sessions? I wonder if it is worth taking Kaplan review session if I can really study on my own?

Thanks!

 

[jdpharmd?]

Originally posted by Iryna
Hi, there!
I've got a question. Has anyone taken the PCAT review sessions? I wonder if it is worth taking Kaplan review session if I can really study on my own?

Thanks!

Unless you have a problem with standardized exams, I would skip the review session and rely on some review materials and your college courses. I know that some of those review courses are very expensive, and it's not like they give you a copy of the exam or anything. You just do practice exams and review things that you already know.

Also make sure that the pharm school's that you're looking at require or even count the PCAT for admission. No CA schools do. I would call the admissions offices to see if they will give you numbers. I think that some schools will even tell you what percent of their decision is based on PCAT scores. I think that MUSC told me the exact percentage (actually, I think that it was pretty high). Sometimes a strong PCAT can make up for a lower GPA, but usually they look at the big picture and count your app as a whole. An excellent PCAT would be great, but it's not going to make a 2.5 GPA competitive with a 3.8 GPA.

I used the barrons book and just did it cover to cover. Anatomy would have been a good class to take beforehand, because my exam had some easy (if I'd had anatomy) questions in the bio section. The math was my worst percentile, but it's not that the questions are hard, it's more of a time factor. It's a good idea to review and practice the basic math that you already know. Keep your eye on the clock. I didn't finish the math part entirely, however I had enough sense to know that I wasn't going to finish and I skipped ahead to all of the easy problems, did them correctly (and quickly) and then went back to taking the exam. When it came down to about 5 minutes left, I just filled in random bubbles for the 10 or so questions that I had left. Some people were caught totally off guard and left a bunch BLANK! Everyone has their strengths, and math is not mine. I ended up with a 77th percentile for math, but a 98th for reading. To each his/her own. Study what you hate, that's probably some good advice. (i.e. I hate math) Good Luck!

Jd

 

[crying moo]

Would it be rude to wonder how everyone did on the PCAT? How many here scored 95th percentile and above?
How many times did you take it?

Who thinks the Bio section was cake... I did great and I hadn't even taken general bio.

 

[Brill]

My composite score was 97% the first and only time I took it. 99% for bio

I know there were a couple of people in here who did better than me also.

 

[riskhk]

I got 94%
I thought the test was nt that bad.]

 

[dgroulx]

I took the test once and had a 98% composite score.

 

[jdpharmd?]

I took it once and had a 96% composite. (looking for scores) Ok, I had a 89% verbal ability, 83% biology (booooo!), 98% reading comprehension, 77% quant. ability (boooooo!), and a 94% chemistry. The funny thing was.. I had almost straight A's in bio, and B's and C's in chem. Go figure!

Jd

 

[crying moo]

I took it once and my composite was 99% I don' think I'm really like that...

Math was def. the more difficult section.

quant: 92
reading: 96
bio: 99
chm: 99
verbal: 99

 

[Amith]

wow those are good scores, I shudder to think of my scores when I take it w/o a strong science background

 

[CrazyIslander]

What I thought was useful were the MCAT books from Princeton Review and Kaplan! These books really helped to refresh in BIO/OChem/Gchem/ If you look at the sub areas that the PCAT covers, the review books covers most of them. You can get them at the local book store...but if you know of a person that took the MCAT review course ask them for the science review books (that is what I had and it really helped improve my scores).

The practice test that I took were from the Barrons 2nd Edition. It was very similar to the actual PCAT. I bought that ARCO PCAT book and I thought it was very outdated (maybe I had the old one....Go with Barrons).

As for math and vocabualry I used the GRE practice tests from KAPLAN. Since I suck at vocab, I bought a vocab book from Kaplan that had words that were most likley to be on a test...I really recommend this book for a person who struggles with vocab...most of the words on the PCAT were in the book and I did very well on the vocab part.

But most of all....study smart, be calm and dont worry, its not that bad!!!!

 

[Amith]

I'm lookin for kaplan mcat science reviews on amazon and half.com etc., but there's so many of them it's confusing...do you guys know, does it matter if I get the "Kaplan comprehensive Mcat review", or do I have to get them individually by subject, like kaplan organic/bio etc? Ive already ordered the barron's pcat, just need to figure out what kaplan book(s) to get.

 

[crying moo]

Honestly, I didn't study so crazily for the PCAT... I just got one "Peterson's PCAT Success" and did it cover to cover... I also borrowed a gen bio textbook for supplemetal reading. that is all. (and I did fine)

VCU isn't a big PCAT school... they didn't seem to really care about the scores. I think they said they required 60th percentile!

Are any of your schools big on the PCAT? What's all this I'm reading about getting MCAT reviews?!