Questions about seeking Medical Degree

[Dr. Dai Phan]

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Hello all,

My name is Dai Phan and I am frequent contributor to the Dental/Pre-Dental Forum. I am currently a practicing dentist in the States. I have been thinking about getting a medical degree so I can travel to the poor third world countries to render medical care as well dental care in my specialty (maxillofacial prosthodontics). My goal is only rendering care outside the States as I want to focus only in dentistry here in the US. Now, I know of an only foreign school (Antigua HSC) that offers non-traditional entrance to people with professional degrees (DDS,OD,DO,DC...). Looking at the curriculum, while it first seems to fill my bill, but it also seems that the training is inadequate. It only requires 18 months of distance training is needed to get the MD degree. I always wonder how in the world can you train a person with "distance learning" with enough knowledge to undergo residencies here in the US? Furthermore, I heard that it is nothing more than a "diploma mill" that has no value in the degree. Contacting Antigua HSC revealved nothing but a stellar program in their words. So, that path seems not to be a good option for me. The other path is to retake the basic science classes, take MCAT and apply just like everyone else. That route can't be done due to my age (38) and it has been 16 years since I had any basic science classes. I simply do not have the time to undergo typical medical school curriculum. Therefore,what are my options of just wanting a medical degree as well as being competent so I can render medical care outside the US? Just a thought that I have been toying for sometimes.

Stats:
BS in Aerospace Enginneering -1990
DDS-1995
Master of Science in Prosthodontics- 2000
Specialist in Maxillofacial Prosthodontics- 2001

Thanks! Dai Phan

 

[blee]

I don't think there are any schools in the U.S. that can help you with this. Unless I'm mistaken, all of them require the pre-requisite courses (which you must have taken if you went to dental school) and an MCAT score.

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

I don't think there are any schools in the U.S. that can help you with this. Unless I'm mistaken, all of them require the pre-requisite courses (which you must have taken if you went to dental school) and an MCAT score.

Hello,

So I basically need the MCAT score and then I can apply? DP

 

[Scottish Chap]

Hello all,

My name is Dai Phan and I am frequent contributor to the Dental/Pre-Dental Forum. I am currently a practicing dentist in the States. I have been thinking about getting a medical degree so I can travel to the poor third world countries to render medical care as well dental care in my specialty (maxillofacial prosthodontics). My goal is only rendering care outside the States as I want to focus only in dentistry here in the US. Now, I know of an only foreign school (Antigua HSC) that offers non-traditional entrance to people with professional degrees (DDS,OD,DO,DC...). Looking at the curriculum, while it first seems to fill my bill, but it also seems that the training is inadequate. It only requires 18 months of distance training is needed to get the MD degree. I always wonder how in the world can you train a person with "distance learning" with enough knowledge to undergo residencies here in the US? Furthermore, I heard that it is nothing more than a "diploma mill" that has no value in the degree. Contacting Antigua HSC revealved nothing but a stellar program in their words. So, that path seems not to be a good option for me. The other path is to retake the basic science classes, take MCAT and apply just like everyone else. That route can't be done due to my age (38) and it has been 16 years since I had any basic science classes. I simply do not have the time to undergo typical medical school curriculum. Therefore,what are my options of just wanting a medical degree as well as being competent so I can render medical care outside the US? Just a thought that I have been toying for sometimes.

Stats:
BS in Aerospace Enginneering -1990
DDS-1995
Master of Science in Prosthodontics- 2000
Specialist in Maxillofacial Prosthodontics- 2001

Thanks! Dai Phan

If you are a board-certified DDS in the U.S., my gut feeling is that you should try to get into the fast-track M.D. program for dentists, offered at a select number of U.S. medical schools. Basically, you need to take Step 1 of the USMLE and then you will be granted admission into the third-year of the M.D. program. Some schools will grant you admission into the second year class. You’ll have to check. MCAT and other courses are not needed.

There may be a few issues:-
1. Is your DDS degree from a North American school? That may affect eligibility - I don't know.
2. These fast-track M.D. programs for dentists are designed for folks who will benefit from the M.D. training on the way to maxillofacial surgery. It sounds like you are already doing that so it might be a stretch to justify admission.
3. Can you devote time to studying for the USMLE, step 1?

Here are a couple of such programs that I pulled up quickly.
--------------------------------------------------
Baylor College Of Dentistry
Texas A and M University System Health Sciences Center
Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery
P.O. Box 660677
Dallas, TX 75266-0677 U.S.A.
E-mail to: [email protected]
Phone: 1-214-828-8320
Fax: 1-214-828-8951

Description:
In the combined Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery/MD program, the resident begins training with attendance at Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center Medical School in Lubbock, Texas as a full-time medical student with advanced standing in the second year class. Currently, the residents spend the entire duration of the second and third years of medical school at Texas Tech completing the required class work and clinical rotations through General Surgery, Internal Medicine, Family Medicine, Ob/Gyn, Pediatrics, and Psychiatry. The fourth year of medical school is split between Texas Tech and the residency program in Dallas. From July of the fourth year of medical school until the end of October, the resident is completing elective rotations in his/her preference of Neurosurgery, Neurology, Internal Medicine, Psychiatry, OB/GYN, Family Medicine or Pediatrics. The resident returns to Dallas in November of his/her fourth year of medical school to begin 3 months of Anesthesiology at Baylor University Medical Center and Parkland Memorial Hospital. After 3 months of anesthesia, the resident completes 5 months of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery. Upon successful completion of medical school a one year general surgery internship is spent at Baylor University Medical Center in the Department of Surgery.

Degree(s):
Cert.- Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery
M.D. - Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery;
----------------------------------------
NYU: http://www.nyu.edu/dental/bulletin/aepmaxillofacial.html
----------------------------------------
UMDNJ: http://dentalschool.umdnj.edu/students/prospective/postdoctoral/ada/oralmax.htm
----------------------------------------
University of Maryland: http://www.dental.umaryland.edu/admissions/omaxill/omaxill_surg.html
---------------------------------------
UCSF: http://www.omfs.ucsf.edu/Programs/index.cfm/Residency/

Good luck!

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

If you are a board-certified DDS in the U.S., my gut feeling is that you should try to get into the fast-track M.D. program for dentists, offered at a select number of U.S. medical schools. Basically, you need to take Step 1 of the USMLE and then you will be granted admission into the third-year of the M.D. program. Some schools will grant you admission into the second year class. You’ll have to check. MCAT and other courses are not needed.

There may be a few issues:-
1. Is your DDS degree from a North American school? That may affect eligibility - I don't know.
2. These fast-track M.D. programs for dentists are designed for folks who will benefit from the M.D. training on the way to maxillofacial surgery. It sounds like you are already doing that so it might be a stretch to justify admission.
3. Can you devote time to studying for the USMLE, step 1?

Here are a couple of such programs that I pulled up quickly.
--------------------------------------------------
Baylor College Of Dentistry
Texas A and M University System Health Sciences Center
Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery
P.O. Box 660677
Dallas, TX 75266-0677 U.S.A.
E-mail to: [email protected]
Phone: 1-214-828-8320
Fax: 1-214-828-8951

Description:
In the combined Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery/MD program, the resident begins training with attendance at Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center Medical School in Lubbock, Texas as a full-time medical student with advanced standing in the second year class. Currently, the residents spend the entire duration of the second and third years of medical school at Texas Tech completing the required class work and clinical rotations through General Surgery, Internal Medicine, Family Medicine, Ob/Gyn, Pediatrics, and Psychiatry. The fourth year of medical school is split between Texas Tech and the residency program in Dallas. From July of the fourth year of medical school until the end of October, the resident is completing elective rotations in his/her preference of Neurosurgery, Neurology, Internal Medicine, Psychiatry, OB/GYN, Family Medicine or Pediatrics. The resident returns to Dallas in November of his/her fourth year of medical school to begin 3 months of Anesthesiology at Baylor University Medical Center and Parkland Memorial Hospital. After 3 months of anesthesia, the resident completes 5 months of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery. Upon successful completion of medical school a one year general surgery internship is spent at Baylor University Medical Center in the Department of Surgery.

Degree(s):
Cert.- Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery
M.D. - Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery;
----------------------------------------
NYU: http://www.nyu.edu/dental/bulletin/aepmaxillofacial.html
----------------------------------------
UMDNJ: http://dentalschool.umdnj.edu/students/prospective/postdoctoral/ada/oralmax.htm
----------------------------------------
University of Maryland: http://www.dental.umaryland.edu/admissions/omaxill/omaxill_surg.html
---------------------------------------
UCSF: http://www.omfs.ucsf.edu/Programs/index.cfm/Residency/

Good luck!

Hello,

Thank you for your information. The schools that you mention are for the dental specialty of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery. I am not interested in becoming a surgeon but rather getting an MD/DO degree so I can practice family medicine in the third world countries (volunteer job). At this time, I do not think there are any US schools that offer a place in third year or second year for DDS holders without MCAT though... There is one school in the Carribean that offers advanced standing for DDS and it only require 18 months of "online" studying. This turns out to be a diploma mill from what I have read. All I need is to gain admission to a medical school, complete a FM residency so I can practice medicine/dentistry abroad as a volunteer. I would also like to know if the classes I took as predent and in dental schools can be still counted since I finish dental school 11 years ago. I also completed six years of post graduate training earning a dental specialty and a sub-specialty with a Master Degree in 2001. DP

 

[Scottish Chap]

Hello,

Thank you for your information. The schools that you mention are for the dental specialty of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery. I am not interested in becoming a surgeon but rather getting an MD/DO degree so I can practice family medicine in the third world countries (volunteer job). At this time, I do not think there are any US schools that offer a place in third year or second year for DDS holders without MCAT though... There is one school in the Carribean that offers advanced standing for DDS and it only require 18 months of "online" studying. This turns out to be a diploma mill from what I have read. All I need is to gain admission to a medical school, complete a FM residency so I can practice medicine/dentistry abroad as a volunteer. I would also like to know if the classes I took as predent and in dental schools can be still counted since I finish dental school 11 years ago. I also completed six years of post graduate training earning a dental specialty and a sub-specialty with a Master Degree in 2001. DP

In your original post, you mentioned that you wanted to offer BOTH medical care and dental care to poor nations. Now you are saying you want to be a family physician.

The above program (2-year M.D. for dentists) does not require the MCAT, but that's a moot point for you since you are not looking to get the 'fast-track M.D.' in order to serve in maxillofacial surgery.

You did not mention if your undergraduate and dental degrees are from a country outside of the U.S./Canada. If they are, you're going to have a massive issue getting into a U.S. medical school ‘as is’. I have first-hand experience of this one. As another poster alluded to, your best option (albeit, not your fastest option) is to complete 60-90 credits of undergraduate work in the U.S. (chemistry, biology, physics, and organic chemistry should be within that group), then take the MCAT. All M.D. and D.O. programs in the U.S. require the MCAT.

I have heard of the Caribbean school you are talking about, but I cannot comment on their curriculum or the quality of the training. In the end, the quality of medical training in the U.S. is guaranteed since all schools are LCME-accredited. It's just a case of what matters most to you-having "M.D." after your name as quickly as possible and taking a few risks along the way, or gaining admission into a D.O. or M.D. program in the U.S. or in Canada where the quality training is guaranteed and proven. Good luck. I hope it works out for you.

 

[ihopetobeado2]

Mayo also offers a MD-OMS program:
http://www.mayo.edu/mms/md-oms.html

With University of Health Sciences at Antigua (UHSA), seven states I know of prohibit its graduates from practicing medicine. Dai Phan, if you just want that MD in the shortest amount of time, then UHSA is doable, but be prepared to deal with the limitations. If you want to concentrate on the US medical school route, you probably won't need to retake medical school prerequisites since you've already taken professional coursework that has built upon the prerequisites. But when you compare then length of time needed to go the traditional route--time for MCAT studying, one year for applying, four years for medical school, and, since you only wanted to be a volunteer physician, the minimum of one year for residency, you could have completed the combined MD-OMS at Mayo. At the Mayo program, you'll be paid as a resident starting the first year, you'll be building upon what you already know, you'll be recognized for your past experience, and you'll be getting that MD along with the satisfaction that you've made it through a surgical residency. You don't have to complete a FP residency in order to volunteer as a physician in a Third World country. Some relief organizations also recognize PAs and NPs. Have you thought about that route, too? But, then, again, if you're only interested in medically volunteering overseas, then UHSA should be totally fine since it's listed in the WHO directory. Good luck in whatever you decide.

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

Mayo also offers a MD-OMS program:
http://www.mayo.edu/mms/md-oms.html

With University of Health Sciences at Antigua (UHSA), seven states I know of prohibit its graduates from practicing medicine. Dai Phan, if you just want that MD in the shortest amount of time, then UHSA is doable, but be prepared to deal with the limitations. If you want to concentrate on the US medical school route, you probably won't need to retake medical school prerequisites since you've already taken professional coursework that has built upon the prerequisites. But when you compare then length of time needed to go the traditional route--time for MCAT studying, one year for applying, four years for medical school, and, since you only wanted to be a volunteer physician, the minimum of one year for residency, you could have completed the combined MD-OMS at Mayo. At the Mayo program, you'll be paid as a resident starting the first year, you'll be building upon what you already know, you'll be recognized for your past experience, and you'll be getting that MD along with the satisfaction that you've made it through a surgical residency. You don't have to complete a FP residency in order to volunteer as a physician in a Third World country. Some relief organizations also recognize PAs and NPs. Have you thought about that route, too? But, then, again, if you're only interested in medically volunteering overseas, then UHSA should be totally fine since it's listed in the WHO directory. Good luck in whatever you decide.

Hello,

Thank you for your input. I do have thought about 6 year MD/OMFS program versus the traditional route of US med school. The problem is I am not interested in OMFS at all. I just do not find it interesting for me. The later route just takes too long. I guess what I am looking for it not possible. The Antigua route is shaky since it is known by consumer watch dog as a diploma mill. I was excited about its advanced standing until I read about them. I am waiting for a US school (very unlikely) or foreign school who provides QUALITY advanced standing for people with professional degrees. Going back to Med school and do 4 year to me is not practical since I am already a dentist who already completed most of what were required in the first two years of med school. DP

 

[Scottish Chap]

Hello,

Thank you for your input. I do have thought about 6 year MD/OMFS program versus the traditional route of US med school. The problem is I am not interested in OMFS at all. I just do not find it interesting for me. The later route just takes too long. I guess what I am looking for it not possible. The Antigua route is shaky since it is known by consumer watch dog as a diploma mill. I was excited about its advanced standing until I read about them. I am waiting for a US school (very unlikely) or foreign school who provides QUALITY advanced standing for people with professional degrees. Going back to Med school and do 4 year to me is not practical since I am already a dentist who already completed most of what were required in the first two years of med school. DP

No U.S. school provides advanced standing for the route that you seek. Wahington University in St. Louis at one point offered a 3-year M.D. and University of Miami offered a 2-year M.D. for individuals holding a Ph.D., but those days are gone.

 

[Scottish Chap]

Hello,

Thank you for your input. I do have thought about 6 year MD/OMFS program versus the traditional route of US med school. The problem is I am not interested in OMFS at all. I just do not find it interesting for me. The later route just takes too long. I guess what I am looking for it not possible. The Antigua route is shaky since it is known by consumer watch dog as a diploma mill. I was excited about its advanced standing until I read about them. I am waiting for a US school (very unlikely) or foreign school who provides QUALITY advanced standing for people with professional degrees. Going back to Med school and do 4 year to me is not practical since I am already a dentist who already completed most of what were required in the first two years of med school. DP

No U.S. medical school provides advanced standing for the route that you seek. Washington University in St. Louis at one point offered a 3-year M.D. and the University of Miami offered a 2-year M.D. for individuals holding the Ph.D. degree, but those days are gone.

 

[dlm]

Hi, the curriculum at UHSA is based on an existing understanding of the medical sciences with a current practice of healthcare.
The didactic requirements at UHSA is the same as is required at US schools.
It tends to be a more difficult program in that you have to be VERY organized and disciplined to blend in med school, plus an existing occupation, plus probably family life etc.... and still complete the sciences before starting clinical's.
Its going to be whatever you make of it, as with any school, however in the end its all about the type and location of clinical's you trained in as well as the USMLE scores.

 

[ShoTyme]

Hi, the curriculum at UHSA is based on an existing understanding of the medical sciences with a current practice of healthcare.
The didactic requirements at UHSA is the same as is required at US schools.
It tends to be a more difficult program in that you have to be VERY organized and disciplined to blend in med school, plus an existing occupation, plus probably family life etc.... and still complete the sciences before starting clinical's.
Its going to be whatever you make of it, as with any school, however in the end its all about the type and location of clinical's you trained in as well as the USMLE scores.

6 year bump?