Questions on Scheduling Out Pre-Req’s and GPA competitiveness

[ed_thom]

Hi all! I’m a non-trad looking at taking the prerequisites for dental school. It’s something I’ve been interested in pursuing since I studied my teeth for my 5th grade science fair project and with a recent move/ career change it’s given me a chance to re-evaluate my career path. So I’m hoping you can impart some wisdom on how I should approach the next couple of years. Also, my apologies if I’m not posting this in the correct forum!

Question 1: How should I structure my prereq’s? I basically don’t have any of them aside from statistics, so I’m thinking:

• Summer 2021: Chem 1/ lab, Chem 2/ lab, Math (prereq for Physics)
• Fall 2021: Bio 1/ lab, Physics 1/ lab, O Chem 1/ lab, English 1
• Spring 2022: Bio 2/ lab, Physics 2/ lab, O Chem 2/ lab, English 2
• Summer 2022: Anatomy + Physiology 1, upper level bio, and maybe Anatomy + Physiology 2
• Fall 2022: Microbiology, Biochem, and maybe Anatomy + Physiology 2 if I don’t take it in the summer
• Spring 2023: Study for the DAT

Would this course load feel like a lot if I’m not working and able to commit my schedule entirely to academics/ shadowing? I have textbooks for Bio and Chem and a syllabus from the local university so I can self-guide through the Bio1/ Chem1 curriculum this year prior to taking the courses. The goal is to re-familiarize myself with the topics since it’s been a few since my previous science experience.

Question 2: What stats should I aim for in my sGPA and DAT? Considering my cGPA (3.12) is low, I’m thinking I should probably aim for a sGPA of at least 3.5 and DAT of 20-21. If I maintain a GPA > 3.67 in the courses outlined above then I’m looking at a CGPA being bumped up to 3.3. Crossing my fingers for that!

For a little context, here is a brief background on me:

Current State: I moved from Vancouver, Canada to Texas earlier this year. I’m waiting out this year for COVID-19 to (hopefully) get under control and receive in-state tuition next year in the summer of 2021.

Academic background: I graduated in 2014 from an accredited Canadian college with a Bachelors of Business Administration. My GPA is 3.12, not great, because the GPA of my first two years was roughly 2.6 and the GPA of my last two years was 3.67. The GPA of my final 10 classes averages to about 3.75. I really hit a groove on how to study and found tricks that worked for me in my last two years. I am hopeful that this upward trajectory reflects positively to ADCOMS.

Professional background: Upon graduation I worked for a financial institution for 5.5 years, two years in-branch and 3.5 years in corporate partnerships and community engagement. One side of my work was focused on the Office of the CEO’s portfolio of corporate partnerships that were as high profile as a keynote speech with a former first lady to a local breakfast fundraiser. For the other side of my work, I lead a team of brand ambassadors to prioritize our presence at community events.

Personal background/ hobbies: I am a Native American who’s a first-generation college graduate and I grew up off-the-grid in the Yukon. For recreation I’m an avid hiker, former canoe instructor, and soon to be backyard beekeeper. I don’t know if any of these details would carry any clout in applications.

I know I threw out A LOT of information in this post, but I appreciate any advice y’all have to offer. Thank you!

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[S_Diamond_DDS]

Yeah you might just take 1-2 prereqs to start and see how you do. I had other obligations when I did my prereqs (work) and 2 prereqs at a time was about as much as I could handle and still get A’s. Honestly, shoot for A’s in all prereq classes. Whatever your science gpa is at the end of getting all A’s is where your goal should be. Same goes with the DAT, go for mastery. The reason I say this is, you’ll likely stumble a bit in one of these classes along the way, so it’s good to have all those other A’s to protect your gpa. And there’s no telling how well you’ll score on the DAT, so better to train to get a 24 and get a 21, rather than train for a 21 and get an 18. The fact that you have an upward trend, are a non traditional student, and URM will serve you well, just raise those stats as high as you can.

 

[ed_thom]

Yeah you might just take 1-2 prereqs to start and see how you do. I had other obligations when I did my prereqs (work) and 2 prereqs at a time was about as much as I could handle and still get A’s. Honestly, shoot for A’s in all prereq classes. Whatever your science gpa is at the end of getting all A’s is where your goal should be. Same goes with the DAT, go for mastery. The reason I say this is, you’ll likely stumble a bit in one of these classes along the way, so it’s good to have all those other A’s to protect your gpa. And there’s no telling how well you’ll score on the DAT, so better to train to get a 24 and get a 21, rather than train for a 21 and get an 18. The fact that you have an upward trend, are a non traditional student, and URM will serve you well, just raise those stats as high as you can.

That is a sound approach- strive for as close to perfection as possible to allow for some wiggle room if I do struggle. Thank you for that perspective!

Does my prereq schedule look decent from your point of view? I figure that I will take a couple in the summer terms and leave a full curriculum for the fall/ spring terms. However, I want to find the right balance between a full course load without it being overwhelming. Capacity is such a hard subject to gauge because it's so subjective, but I don't anticipate working, so I will be able to commit my full concentration to studying and shadowing.

 

[DDShemi]

Hi all! I’m a non-trad looking at taking the prerequisites for dental school. It’s something I’ve been interested in pursuing since I studied my teeth for my 5th grade science fair project and with a recent move/ career change it’s given me a chance to re-evaluate my career path. So I’m hoping you can impart some wisdom on how I should approach the next couple of years. Also, my apologies if I’m not posting this in the correct forum!

Question 1: How should I structure my prereq’s? I basically don’t have any of them aside from statistics, so I’m thinking:

• Summer 2021: Chem 1/ lab, Chem 2/ lab, Math (prereq for Physics)
• Fall 2021: Bio 1/ lab, Physics 1/ lab, O Chem 1/ lab, English 1
• Spring 2022: Bio 2/ lab, Physics 2/ lab, O Chem 2/ lab, English 2
• Summer 2022: Anatomy + Physiology 1, upper level bio, and maybe Anatomy + Physiology 2
• Fall 2022: Microbiology, Biochem, and maybe Anatomy + Physiology 2 if I don’t take it in the summer
• Spring 2023: Study for the DAT

Would this course load feel like a lot if I’m not working and able to commit my schedule entirely to academics/ shadowing? I have textbooks for Bio and Chem and a syllabus from the local university so I can self-guide through the Bio1/ Chem1 curriculum this year prior to taking the courses. The goal is to re-familiarize myself with the topics since it’s been a few since my previous science experience.

Question 2: What stats should I aim for in my sGPA and DAT? Considering my cGPA (3.12) is low, I’m thinking I should probably aim for a sGPA of at least 3.5 and DAT of 20-21. If I maintain a GPA > 3.67 in the courses outlined above then I’m looking at a CGPA being bumped up to 3.3. Crossing my fingers for that!

For a little context, here is a brief background on me:

Current State: I moved from Vancouver, Canada to Texas earlier this year. I’m waiting out this year for COVID-19 to (hopefully) get under control and receive in-state tuition next year in the summer of 2021.

Academic background: I graduated in 2014 from an accredited Canadian college with a Bachelors of Business Administration. My GPA is 3.12, not great, because the GPA of my first two years was roughly 2.6 and the GPA of my last two years was 3.67. The GPA of my final 10 classes averages to about 3.75. I really hit a groove on how to study and found tricks that worked for me in my last two years. I am hopeful that this upward trajectory reflects positively to ADCOMS.

Professional background: Upon graduation I worked for a financial institution for 5.5 years, two years in-branch and 3.5 years in corporate partnerships and community engagement. One side of my work was focused on the Office of the CEO’s portfolio of corporate partnerships that were as high profile as a keynote speech with a former first lady to a local breakfast fundraiser. For the other side of my work, I lead a team of brand ambassadors to prioritize our presence at community events.

Personal background/ hobbies: I am a Native American who’s a first-generation college graduate and I grew up off-the-grid in the Yukon. For recreation I’m an avid hiker, former canoe instructor, and soon to be backyard beekeeper. I don’t know if any of these details would carry any clout in applications.

I know I threw out A LOT of information in this post, but I appreciate any advice y’all have to offer. Thank you!

I agree with the first reply to this. You need to start with maybe 2 classes at the max to begin. I do not recommend going back to school and your first semester of it being all or nothing. Protect your GPA by getting your feet wet, getting back into a study routine, and learning how you study for science courses best. Then, once you have mastered this you will be able to get into more classes and still be getting those A’s. I think your set up looks nice but I would just to try to start out slower then pick up after that first semester back and you see where your are.

 

[S_Diamond_DDS]

This is a more reasonable schedule:

• Summer 2021: english 1, Math
• Fall 2021: chem1, physics 1
• Spring 2022: chem 2, physics 2,
• Summer 2022: english 2
• Fall 2022: ochem 1, bio 1
• Spring 2023: ochem 2, bio 2
• Summer 2023: anatomy or physiology (Depending on which schools you want to apply for. Most schools only require one or the other for some reason)
• Fall 2023: Microbiology, biochemistry
  Spring 2024: study and take DAT (and apply for dental schools EARLY)
  summer/fall 2024: you can take additional classes you need based on the programs you’re applying for at the same time you’re interviewing and even after you get accepted sometimes

 

[ed_thom]

I agree with the first reply to this. You need to start with maybe 2 classes at the max to begin. I do not recommend going back to school and your first semester of it being all or nothing. Protect your GPA by getting your feet wet, getting back into a study routine, and learning how you study for science courses best. Then, once you have mastered this you will be able to get into more classes and still be getting those A’s. I think your set up looks nice but I would just to try to start out slower then pick up after that first semester back and you see where your are.

That's a good point, there's no point in going guns blazing when I can start off slower to get a sense of how much my capacity is. If I can handle more then I can up the workload. Thank you for that!

 

[ed_thom]

This is a more reasonable schedule:

• Summer 2021: english 1, Math
• Fall 2021: chem1, physics 1
• Spring 2022: chem 2, physics 2,
• Summer 2022: english 2
• Fall 2022: ochem 1, bio 1
• Spring 2023: ochem 2, bio 2
• Summer 2023: anatomy or physiology (Depending on which schools you want to apply for. Most schools only require one or the other for some reason)
• Fall 2023: Microbiology, biochemistry
  Spring 2024: study and take DAT (and apply for dental schools EARLY)
  summer/fall 2024: you can take additional classes you need based on the programs you’re applying for at the same time you’re interviewing and even after you get accepted sometimes

Oh that's a good schedule. I will definitely start out slow in the summer and fall of 2021. Once I get into the groove and if feel like I can take more courses without compromising my GPA then I will look at taking more. Thank you so much for the advice!

 

[pinwheeels]

This is a more reasonable schedule:

• Summer 2021: english 1, Math
• Fall 2021: chem1, physics 1
• Spring 2022: chem 2, physics 2,
• Summer 2022: english 2
• Fall 2022: ochem 1, bio 1
• Spring 2023: ochem 2, bio 2
• Summer 2023: anatomy or physiology (Depending on which schools you want to apply for. Most schools only require one or the other for some reason)
• Fall 2023: Microbiology, biochemistry
  Spring 2024: study and take DAT (and apply for dental schools EARLY)
  summer/fall 2024: you can take additional classes you need based on the programs you’re applying for at the same time you’re interviewing and even after you get accepted sometimes

I did a similar schedule to this with one change: Study and take the DAT in Summer 2023. Submit app in June 2023 and finish DAT by late July or early Aug at the latest. Then continue finishing the rest of your classes in Fall 2023 and Spring 2024 while attending interviews. So long as you finish any last classes by Spring 2024 (or Summer if classes start in Aug), if you got accepted that cycle then you could matriculate Fall 2024. If not, then you could start studying for the DAT if it warrants a retake again in the summer 2024. Aim for all A's in these science courses as it will not only boost your GPA, but will help in doing better for the DAT too.

I would also swap out Physics and save it for your last semesters. You don't need this for the DAT. But having studied Anat&Phys and Micro before the DAT is going to help you get a few more solid answers. In mine, I felt like 30% of my Bio section was Anat&Phys, but that's luck of the draw.

Btw, I think your Native American background is definitely going to help you out, especially in this era of post-BLM where schools are working harder to diversify their classes. But knowing you come from such a community, especially if you have the motivation to take your practice back to the rural and underserved communities, you're a golden nugget. Especially if you move back to Alaska - I heard of two students from my school who paid off their entire student loans within 3 years off the big salaries they were making out there.

 

[pinwheeels]

Also, make sure you check out the Indian Health Scholarship program since you would qualify. IHS Scholarship Program | Financial and Student Opportunities

 

[ed_thom]

I did a similar schedule to this with one change: Study and take the DAT in Summer 2023. Submit app in June 2023 and finish DAT by late July or early Aug at the latest. Then continue finishing the rest of your classes in Fall 2023 and Spring 2024 while attending interviews. So long as you finish any last classes by Spring 2024 (or Summer if classes start in Aug), if you got accepted that cycle then you could matriculate Fall 2024. If not, then you could start studying for the DAT if it warrants a retake again in the summer 2024. Aim for all A's in these science courses as it will not only boost your GPA, but will help in doing better for the DAT too.

I would also swap out Physics and save it for your last semesters. You don't need this for the DAT. But having studied Anat&Phys and Micro before the DAT is going to help you get a few more solid answers. In mine, I felt like 30% of my Bio section was Anat&Phys, but that's luck of the draw.

Btw, I think your Native American background is definitely going to help you out, especially in this era of post-BLM where schools are working harder to diversify their classes. But knowing you come from such a community, especially if you have the motivation to take your practice back to the rural and underserved communities, you're a golden nugget. Especially if you move back to Alaska - I heard of two students from my school who paid off their entire student loans within 3 years off the big salaries they were making out there.

Oh, good idea with taking physics later. It’s weird how it’s not on the DAT at all! That’s what I was hoping for with anatomy & physiology, take it right before studying for the DAT so it’s fresh. I was given an info sheet from my local University with a list of prereq’s and electives that Texas dental schools look for. It said Texas A&M requires two anatomy & physiology courses, so I thought “might as well- can only help later on.”

You hit the mark on returning to Native American communities. My ultimate goal is to do something adjacent or directly with a Native American community (preferably my own community) to not only inspire the next generation but also help an under-served area. I’m sure that would be meaty subject to talk about later; hopefully I do well in my prereq’s to be competitive enough to tell that story

On that note, how did you find the prerequisites? Do you have any particular study tips that helped with your success? I haven’t taken a physics class in my life, so looking at it now is a bit daunting but based on my undergrad study habits I know I’ll put in the hours to do my best. I bought a college level Bio 1 and Chem 1 textbook to brush up on over the next few months and will follow up with learning some baseline physics.

PS: Thank you SO MUCH for the scholarship link! I was searching some Native American focused scholarships but didn’t see this one.

 

[pinwheeels]

The prerequisites wasn't so bad if I took 2 per semester - made it more manageable and gave me enough time to really study the material like my life depended on it. I learn really well as a team so I made sure to create study groups with classmates and practice homework problems together or set up a way to organize information and just drill each other. It made school fun too. This also left me enough time to join leadership in a club, visit with the professor to review tougher concepts or advice on how to study for some topics (do that enough and you'll make friends with some and find out who you can ask for your LOR's), and shadow a dentist. I never did research but you could make room for that too.

My biggest advice for doing well... honestly I became a "Hermione" from Harry Potter. Before we would cover the next chapter in class, I would read the entire chapter and see if I could understand it all myself. If I couldn't, then see how the Prof teaches it and whether it clicks. If it doesn't, then you're in a prime position to ask questions until it finally makes sense. And in classes where it's just all about memorization, then having that repetition to the material content will also help solidify things into memory.

Don't worry about physics. Save that for the end. You need to store a lot of info already and don't worry to bog it down with something you're not even tested on for the DAT. I found Physics interesting and fun, but extremely challenging all the same. Make sure you choose good Profs on ratemyprofessor.com - not the ones who will give an easy A. It's tempting to grab those (I'll make an exception for English, haha), but you really do want a teacher who cares and will do a good job to teach you. I chose those Profs and though classes were challenging, I really understood the material and appreciate my teachers, especially when all of it stuck well enough to nail my DAT.

I forget how much the IHS Scholarship covers for dental school... isn't it all of it? If you can get that scholarship, you won't need to worry about tuition so much, and would highly recommend you add both Arizona schools to your application list. Both schools focus on making you the best super general dentist you can become before you graduate, and you'll feel competent and confident to move back to Alaska with everything you learned. Not all schools are equal (I don't know anything really about TX schools, I hear they're good), but when we compare MWU/ASDOH to many other schools in the country, they just are not equal. I was in a meeting with the dean this morning at my school and he reported that both AZ schools graduated 100% of their 2020 class even amidst Covid. However, he mentioned two other schools in the country that only graduated 40% and 20% of their 2020 class because they hadn't met their min requirements. MWU students meet their min requirements by the end of their D3 year in comparison, so no one was ever at risk to not graduate when it happened.

 

[ed_thom]

The prerequisites wasn't so bad if I took 2 per semester - made it more manageable and gave me enough time to really study the material like my life depended on it. I learn really well as a team so I made sure to create study groups with classmates and practice homework problems together or set up a way to organize information and just drill each other. It made school fun too. This also left me enough time to join leadership in a club, visit with the professor to review tougher concepts or advice on how to study for some topics (do that enough and you'll make friends with some and find out who you can ask for your LOR's), and shadow a dentist. I never did research but you could make room for that too.

My biggest advice for doing well... honestly I became a "Hermione" from Harry Potter. Before we would cover the next chapter in class, I would read the entire chapter and see if I could understand it all myself. If I couldn't, then see how the Prof teaches it and whether it clicks. If it doesn't, then you're in a prime position to ask questions until it finally makes sense. And in classes where it's just all about memorization, then having that repetition to the material content will also help solidify things into memory.

Don't worry about physics. Save that for the end. You need to store a lot of info already and don't worry to bog it down with something you're not even tested on for the DAT. I found Physics interesting and fun, but extremely challenging all the same. Make sure you choose good Profs on ratemyprofessor.com - not the ones who will give an easy A. It's tempting to grab those (I'll make an exception for English, haha), but you really do want a teacher who cares and will do a good job to teach you. I chose those Profs and though classes were challenging, I really understood the material and appreciate my teachers, especially when all of it stuck well enough to nail my DAT.

I forget how much the IHS Scholarship covers for dental school... isn't it all of it? If you can get that scholarship, you won't need to worry about tuition so much, and would highly recommend you add both Arizona schools to your application list. Both schools focus on making you the best super general dentist you can become before you graduate, and you'll feel competent and confident to move back to Alaska with everything you learned. Not all schools are equal (I don't know anything really about TX schools, I hear they're good), but when we compare MWU/ASDOH to many other schools in the country, they just are not equal. I was in a meeting with the dean this morning at my school and he reported that both AZ schools graduated 100% of their 2020 class even amidst Covid. However, he mentioned two other schools in the country that only graduated 40% and 20% of their 2020 class because they hadn't met their min requirements. MWU students meet their min requirements by the end of their D3 year in comparison, so no one was ever at risk to not graduate when it happened.

That’s a good strategy to pre-read the material. That was something I was going to incorporate into my study routine as well. Especially because I’m one of those learners that learns well through repetition by reading, taking notes, listening, reading again etc.

Yeah, when I did a brief run through on the scholarship, it seemed rather comprehensive. With that factored in, tuition and expenses really does become less of a boundary on where I choose to apply. I was initially neglecting MWU because of the price, and cost of education was a big reason why I was looking at Texas schools because it’s hard to beat 30k(ish) tuition/ year.

I know it's a year and change late, but congratulations on your successful enrollment to MWU! How has your experience been with MWU so far? Are you enjoying the school culture and city? I’m sure it’s quite a front-heavy workload if they strive to have your minimum requirements met by D3 as you mentioned.