Quick opinion poll for my possible career move

Discussion in 'Anesthesiology' started by DreamLover, 09.22.14.

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  1. DreamLover

    DreamLover Bored Certified 10+ Year Member

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    Background: I've been working in a strong Academic program in a "highly desirable" area (with awful traffic) for > 3 years now (since residency graduation). Assistant professor etc (I enjoy teaching but research Isn't high on my list of favorite things)

    1. SUPER high cost of living here
    - I am slowly paying off my student loans and saving for a place but it'll be years before I can afford something I really want but it'll still never be what I can get in a "normal" area. Perfect weather, good stable job and so much to do year round.

    2. I'm from a nice area but not a place where most people would want to live unless you're from there (aka most people never leave there and it's a place I spent my childhood trying to escape for bigger and brighter opportunities)

    3. I can move home (I've been gone almost 10 years) get a job with a stable private practice that has not been purchased by an AMC-do 50/50 MD only and CRNA supervision. I'd work at least 10hrs more/week than now, certainly be busier, but make a significant amount more and have SUBSTANTIALLY lower costs of living.

    4. If I moved back I could pay off my debt and buy a beautiful home in a much shorter timeline and be happy back near my friends and family BUT I have to give up my good job here and the perfect weather and constant array of things to do. I'm not tied to this city and I have the flexibility to do whatever I feel really.

    5. Just on first glance, Do you vote stay or go?!
     
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  3. DaTruMD

    DaTruMD 7+ Year Member

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    Go!
     
  4. Jay K

    Jay K nullum gratuitum prandium 5+ Year Member

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    I think it's odd to make life decisions based on the opinions of complete strangers.

    Sounds like you've done a pro/con's list already.

    I'm pretty certain you have a good idea what makes you happy, so the choice should be obvious.

    Everybody else's opinions will be colored with their own life experiences and desires.

    You know what you want.
     
  5. pjl

    pjl ASA Member 10+ Year Member

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    Do a 5 year financial analysis. That would guide me, but I am a guy who sees making a lot more money in the first 5-10 years as a significant stress reliever for my overall life, and the opportunity to create what will be/is becoming a seed for generational wealth through smart investing. I like knowing that I have the option to decrease to 1/2 time at any point without major changes to the quality of my life.

    When I read that, it says to me you are in a job you like in a city you like, but not making much money.
    You would move to a job that was ok, in a city that is ok, but you would have much better financials.

    You have to do the math for yourself, and balance lifestyle with crappy home vs less lifestyle and a nice home/retirement account. If I were single I would stay where you are, with family I would move. Frequently those "less desirable" places are better for raising kids.
     
  6. DreamLover

    DreamLover Bored Certified 10+ Year Member

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    This opinion poll will not determine my choices. More so I'm interested in what other people think is important to them. Just opinions. I'm very well vested in what is good for me.
     
  7. DreamLover

    DreamLover Bored Certified 10+ Year Member

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    Yep-I've pretty much done this financial outlook and it's in my favor to move.

    You're right in the concept of moving to a less than perfect city but I think the job is pretty good and well, it's home and home fits like a glove. The city isn't perfect but being around friends and my family would be nice and it is something I lack where I am now. I'm thousands of miles away from where I grew up and that's has been great but also hard at times, so no scenario is perfect.

    I'm enjoying the replies though. I'm always up for more ideas to ponder and things to think about. It's nice to be able to ask people who understand, strangers or not, for their opinions regarding changing jobs in this climate (academics Vs PP etc)
     
  8. BuzzPhreed

    BuzzPhreed

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    So long as your husband is cool with it, go for it. Doing your own cases regularly makes you a better anesthesiologist. Just my opinion. Teaching is cool too, but it's not to same.
     
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  9. DreamLover

    DreamLover Bored Certified 10+ Year Member

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    I do my own OR cases 10% of the time now and I do solo OB practice where I am also (at the University's boutique hospital)
     
  10. Noyac

    Noyac ASA Member SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    I'm the exact opposite. I see my health and hobbies (which are more the strenuous type activities) as vanishing assets that I will never get back. I chose to give up the big money so that I could pursue the things that I knew I would not always be able to do. In ten years I probably gave up 2 mil in income. But I haven't regretted a single moment and that is the truth, ask Sevo. Yes I will work longer but I am completely happy to do that. I still enjoy medicine and even enjoy anesthesia more. I'm not looking to retire anytime soon so I will play hard now and work another 5-10 to pad the retirement. Don't worry though, I'm not living in the slums.
    Another thing to think about, the more you make early on the more you need latter in life. It's a lifestyle thing and if you think you are immune to it, your probably wrong.
    So what you should do Dramlover, is try to figure out what makes you happiest. Is it the income, nothing wrong with that. Is it the location and what it offers. Is it family and friends. Usually, you can achieve most of this to some degree.
    It sounds like you are single (without family) to me which affords you so much. Don't be afraid to experiment a bit.
     
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  11. DreamLover

    DreamLover Bored Certified 10+ Year Member

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    Yes-I'm not married and I don't have any children yet. That does give me ultimate flexibility. I'm in a long term relationship that either will or won't survive a move of that magnitude....

    You can probably see why I'm still not married! :)
     
  12. DreamLover

    DreamLover Bored Certified 10+ Year Member

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    I believe this too though. I have a great schedule now which affords me a lot of time in my day for the most parts and I do enjoy that.

    I wonder though, while I'm not married and don't have children responsibilities, should I work more now and less later....I've had a pretty great time up to now...it hasn't been a hardship per say
     
  13. Noyac

    Noyac ASA Member SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    I don't know!
     
  14. DreamLover

    DreamLover Bored Certified 10+ Year Member

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    I don't think there is a perfect or easy answer to any of it...everyone has their opinions though and I appreciate hearing them
     
  15. imfrankie

    imfrankie Anesthesiologist 5+ Year Member

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    Family can become a lot more important when/if you have children--assuming you like 'em.
     
  16. DreamLover

    DreamLover Bored Certified 10+ Year Member

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    I totally agree with that
     
  17. urge

    urge 7+ Year Member

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    Most of the people here are in the boonies...
     
  18. MalloryWeiss

    MalloryWeiss ASA Member 2+ Year Member

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    Perfect weather. High cost of living. Lots of traffic. Strong academic center.

    Sounds like you live in LA.
     
  19. chocomorsel

    chocomorsel Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Are you gonna be moving back to a horrible climate 4 to 6 months out of the year? If so, that is something to strongly consider.
    I myself am trying to leave the cold, thousands of miles away from home with a higher cost of living to move back to the heat with cheaper cost, which is where I am from. If you can tolerate the weather, then I say go.
     
  20. RxBoy

    RxBoy ASA Member 7+ Year Member

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    Best of both worlds... Moonlight 10 hr/week and pay down your loans faster. I moonlight pretty much every precall (call starts at 3pm) doing my own cases and that cushions an extra 5-6g's/month. Not huge but its 1099 and I can really reduce my tax burden on that income. I dont even feel it especially being out so close to residency. Just make sure it doesnt violate a non-compete clause in your contract.
     
  21. Southpaw

    Southpaw ASA Member 10+ Year Member

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    could you go back to your current job if you leave and regret the move 6mths-1yr from now? I practice right now in a eat-what-you-kill, pooled RVU setup in private practice, and while I overall really enjoy my job there aren't many days that go by when I don't want to get home a little sooner to see my family. The golden egg that comes with working more, after a certain point, isn't worth it when I compare it to the happiness that I miss out on outside of the hospital. I am only a little over a year into private practice. I'm also an ardent boglehead, and while our lifestyle has stretched some beyond my resident salary, my wife and I are saving a lot for a hopeful happy future retirement and to leave something significant to help my children get the head start that my wife and I didn't have.

    There are of course no easy answers to your question, but if I were you, I would take the job back home for financial reasons. I'd also run things by the chair and the hopes that they'd take you back if you regretted the move. Just one year into private practice I already miss working with residents and the teaching atmosphere (but only some parts of it :) ).
     
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  22. BuzzPhreed

    BuzzPhreed

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    Boonies? Hardly. Personally, I'm less than two hours from 3 major metropolitan areas AND the beach.

    And, DreamLover: lock that sh*t up or move on (I'm talking about your boyfriend). Trust me on that one. If one of you is hedging now, believe when I tell you it's not going to get any better after he puts a ring on it. If I had married the girl that I was hedging on, I would've never met my wife. What would have happened is it would've dragged on for a few more years and my wife would've met someone else, etc., etc. Instead I'd probably be divorced now and paying out the nose.

    Lock it up or move on. Just one mans advice.
     
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  23. Noyac

    Noyac ASA Member SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    Maybe she doesn't want to be married.
     
  24. SaltyDog

    SaltyDog Keeping the Forces of Entropy at Bay 7+ Year Member

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    I agree with Noy for the most part. I can sit in the OR and work when my knees and back are too shot to surf/dive/snowboard and my kids have moved on. My youth, health, and young children at home are things I'm not gonna squander sitting on stool 60+ hours a week just to be able to retire earlier.

    If I was single though, I would much more readily take a BFE job for much more money because you can structure your time differently. You can move back home, work your butt off for a few weeks, and then peace out for a week or more at a time and travel and spend time back in the city with perfect weather, etc. You have that flexibility. It's nearly impossible to do that kinda thing with a spouse and young kids so I live in the perfect city and work a reasonable schedule. Don't take much vacation but I really don't need to either given my locale.
     
  25. sevoflurane

    sevoflurane Ride 10+ Year Member

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    I've been in pseudo BFE for some time now. I do have 3 major metropolitan cities with international airports within 45 min.-1.5 hours from where I live... and Chi town is pretty close as well. I ride moto, mountain bike and play a ton of tennis in my little BFE corner of the universe. Still, the gloomy days are caustic the lack of culture is downright depressing and the winters suck the life out of me. When I visit Noy he is so freak'n happy. The dude is constantly doing something fun. We always make our way to his garage so we can tinker with the mountain bikes or the moto... and then off we go... into the mountains. Very, very nice to have that at your fingertips. It has seriously made me reconsider some of my choices.

    On the plus side, I love my job and colleagues, I've paid off all of my loans, 2 homes, I have accumulated a considerable amount of retirement savings and have had the luxury to take exotic vacations 10-12 weeks a year. Now that I'm reaching retirement wealth, my views are quickly changing. In fact, I have some friends that have invited me to interview at some pretty awesome places and I'm strongly considering getting out of BFE. If and when I take my next job it will be in a locale that I WANT to live in... a la Noy. I will be able to buy the home I want... mainly because I've stuck it out in BFE for a long time. No one ever said they wished they worked one extra day in BFE on their death bed. We'll see how things pan out.

    I'm only 40 y/o so I have a lot of juice left in these 'ol bones. If you look back at the posts I made 7 years ago, I've executed my plan to a tee... and I think it's the right choice for me.


    Dreamlover, do what makes you happy. This is key. You only get one chance at this life, so make the best of it. It is a beautiful place out there.

    :watching:
     
    Last edited: 09.23.14
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  26. sevoflurane

    sevoflurane Ride 10+ Year Member

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    and don't be afraid to venture into the unknown... sometimes taking that leap of faith is the best thing that could happen to you.
     
  27. BuzzPhreed

    BuzzPhreed

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    Good point. But even eventually this becomes an issue for most couples. Not everyone. Most. It takes two to tango.

    Just look before you leap. Take my word on that. Look hard.
     
  28. Mac4

    Mac4 ASA Member 7+ Year Member

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    Sounds like you want to settle down and kinda want to start a family...I would move back.
     
  29. bashwell

    bashwell SDN Bronze Donor Bronze Donor 2+ Year Member

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    I recommend Australia. ;)
     
  30. anbuitachi

    anbuitachi ASA Member 7+ Year Member

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    Wow that's an amazing picture!! who doesn't want to work there??
     
  31. DreamLover

    DreamLover Bored Certified 10+ Year Member

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    I totally agree!

    And you're right, Noyac- I don't want to be married-not yet. If it happens later, when it feels right, great! But it doesn't stop me from pursuing what I want to do and where I want to be.

    Marriage and family are probably in the cards and yes, I'd rather raise them there than here....but that isn't eminent. The only thing that is eminent are my fat student loan bills that I could pay off 10 X faster. I can't help it...my mom's an accountant and I'm constantly running the numbers.
     
  32. DreamLover

    DreamLover Bored Certified 10+ Year Member

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    Yeah....the winter is my least favorite part of the entire equation, but I did it for many years and I know I'll survive to each Spring. I debate with myself if the decreased cost of living seems to make it worth the suffering. With my extra money, I could take January off every year and go to Baja!
     
  33. Noyac

    Noyac ASA Member SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    It doesn't. The reason the cost of living is so low is because nobody wants to be there. This is important. Very very important. Don't underestimate it.
     
  34. imfrankie

    imfrankie Anesthesiologist 5+ Year Member

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    You don't want to be there.
     
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  35. urge

    urge 7+ Year Member

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    2 hrs is not what I would call close, but let's not digress.

    PS : allow me to digress

    I don't think anyone makes their life farther away than a radius of 45 to 60 min.

    I wouldn't drive 4 hrs to go to a restaurant, shop, etc on a regular basis.
     
  36. sevoflurane

    sevoflurane Ride 10+ Year Member

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    Agree with this. It drives me nuts having to drive 35 minutes each way to the indoor tennis club after a long day of work during the winter months. I force myself to do this, but I know some people bike to the courts in the middle of January. Super jelous of that.

    However, we enjoy 4-5 weekend road trips to big cities during the course of the year. What we like most is the options of 3 airports that offer direct flights to non-bfe.
    I'd love to be 2 hrs from the beach. If that is anywhere near ocean drive, then I'd be looking into a second home I can escape to. If you live in a resort city, that is a non-issue (and a lot more fun time outside of the car).
     
  37. DreamLover

    DreamLover Bored Certified 10+ Year Member

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    It's not like I'd be moving to the moon. It's not everyone's cup of tea but they have a Saks and an international airport...could be a lot worse
     
  38. chocomorsel

    chocomorsel Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Well, if you have family around and they have a Saks, (I prefer Macys as they are a lot more reasonable) then go for it. If they have a Saks, that means it's not out in the middle of nowhere and metropolitan enough. Being around people you love helps a lot. I am trying to move back home to be with people I love and to get away from this horrible cold. And apparently, winters aren't as bad here as they are in New England or Upper Midwest. Too cold for me.
     
  39. Noyac

    Noyac ASA Member SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    There you go. It sounds like it's not BFE to you. That's what matters.
     
  40. 2ndyear

    2ndyear Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    One quick point since you mentioned kids: your life changes tremendously in ways you can't yet imagine once you have them. You won't take January off for warmer climes, can't because kids are in school. You'll take spring break week like everyone else. Once they start activities you won't take a ton of time away, they have soccer/gymnastics/dance/piano and swim lessons and friends. Yes you can still vacation but it gets to be different. Point is enjoy where you live because you'll be there a lot when you have kids. It's also much more of an ordeal to escape.

    If you need a beach/sushi/Whole Foods/whatever culture to keep you happy then just live there and deal with it. It sounds like the cost of housing is discouraging to you now, but what about doing what everyone else does and just move to the suburbs and commute? There's a reason the traffic is bad, everyone moves to the 'burbs where you can get a decent home for a decent price with good schools but still be close enough to the cultural opportunities of the city. Personally, I enjoy it. 30 minute commuter rail ride into the city makes it easy too.
     
  41. BuzzPhreed

    BuzzPhreed

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    You work, you go home, you eat, you go to bed. I can go anywhere easily over any weekend. What more do you want?

    My town has a large mall, a Costco Sam's Club and a BJ's, good boutique restaurants (not Applebee's or Chili's or Bonefish Grill, although we have those too), the immediate catchment area is over 1M people, we have a theater that gets the off-Broadway touring company shows, several breweries (some nationally distributed), and two minor league professional sports teams and several movie theaters. I have all of this without having to deal with bull**** traffic or outrageously overinflated property values. I can get to three major airports all within 1.5 hours that can take me anywhere in the country or world, many destinations non-stop. Yet, I also doubt that my town is high on any terror watch lists.

    So, I guess you'll have to specifically define "boonies" then.
     
  42. bashwell

    bashwell SDN Bronze Donor Bronze Donor 2+ Year Member

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    By the way, I recently ran across an "urban studies" professor named Joel Kotkin who seems to know a lot about different social, economic, and other trends affecting different parts of the country (e.g., which cities are moving up/down). I can't vouch for what he writes since I'm not exactly all that familiar with him, but he might at least have some useful material to consider as a small part of your overall decision?
     
  43. DreamLover

    DreamLover Bored Certified 10+ Year Member

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    Maybe that's the take away for me. "It's not BFE for me" so I can be happy there. True, no Januaries off when I have kids BUT I have zero support or family where I am now and great weather or not-if the kid gets sick and needs to be picked up from school...I don't have my enormous group of friends and family to help out. My best friends here I've made through work...so they'd be working too. So my argument for going home and having kids seems a lot stronger to me than staying in a pretty place to do so.

    Maybe I feel my sanity is better helped by support with kids Vs pretty weather escape time.
     
  44. FFP

    FFP Offline Gold Donor 7+ Year Member

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    IMO, if you can mix family and old friends with a good job that makes you happy, there is nothing that beats that. You can be a billionaire on your yacht in Tahiti, and it will still suck if it keeps you away from your loved ones.
     
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  45. Ronin2258

    Ronin2258 Prometheus Unbound 5+ Year Member

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    This is why my job requirements are very specific to location. I am more than willing to take the pay hit to make it possible for me to stay in the areas I want to.

    I spent three years away from my friends for residency, who have been more family than I care to discuss. Being the service meant I had to travel often, there have only been two or three times where I've stayed in one place long enough to make good friends. Being away from them was frustrating, and the lack of friends to socialize outside the hospital with was the cause of some serious health problems in the last year.

    Not that I didn't try. I try to be social with my classmates and colleagues. However, I couldn't even get my classmates out for dinner up until graduation. A very un-sociable bunch, they were.

    I move back into the area of my friends are (one of two areas where I have a good circle of friends,) and I'm trying like all get to stay in the area.

    Trust me, I understand your sentiment to move to where you are welcomed. And in my opinion, there's no better feeling than to know that you have people in your social circle around you care. Knowing that you have friends to help you and friends to talk to is worth more, to me at least, than any extra money big locations pay.

    The only caveat I would apply is to make sure that your debts are taken care of quickly. Also, make sure you have a good retirement plan so that you can prepare yourself for the inevitable.
     
  46. DreamLover

    DreamLover Bored Certified 10+ Year Member

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    Well, I agree about the importance of being near good people. I miss my longtime friends and my family. But, if I were to move back, I would be moving to more money not less. The highly desirable areas do not pay as well and I make less money to be in a beautiful, yet much more expensive, place to live.

    If I were to move home, I could save more, pay my student loans off and buy a beautiful home...those things are much more difficult to do where I am now.
     
  47. Baller MD

    Baller MD 7+ Year Member

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    Well what's holding you back besides being in a perceived "desirable" area? Seems like most things are pointing to you moving.
     
  48. DreamLover

    DreamLover Bored Certified 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    02.09.06
    Messages:
    557
    Location:
    727 5TH Ave, New York, NY
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Verified
    Physician
    I love my job here, I love all that there is to do here...it looks like an easy decision on paper, but it's much more difficult in reality
     
    Baller MD likes this.
  49. sevoflurane

    sevoflurane Ride 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    07.16.03
    Messages:
    4,171
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Reality.
     
  50. bashwell

    bashwell SDN Bronze Donor Bronze Donor 2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    03.20.13
    Messages:
    1,418
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    I don't suppose any of your friends and/or family have a desire to move out to where you for a job or adventure or something? That might be a partial solution.
     
  51. DreamLover

    DreamLover Bored Certified 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    02.09.06
    Messages:
    557
    Location:
    727 5TH Ave, New York, NY
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Verified
    Physician
    They can't afford to do so. With the price of airline tickets and lack of direct flight to where I am from there (it takes all day to get here) it's hard to get people to visit, not that they don't want to-but with jobs and bills and families etc... It's not nearly as easy as our earlier carefree days
     

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