Quitting in the middle of medical school

[CodeBlu]

I was under the impression that it wasn't the nature of law students or med students, but it all came down to money (surprise!).

Med schools are considerably more expensive to run than law schools. Law students are just tuition-payers (and donors) while med students are investments. The school would lose money kicking out med students.

The resources available to prevent me from failing out are incredible, and while I would love to believe that is because the school really cares about me as an individual, I think it is a bit more than that.

Law students... their degrees are generally worthless unless they are from a top 10/top20 school

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[Sailor Senshi Dermystify]

I recall my class had a student who had withdrawn and re-enrolled twice during the pre-clinical years. We had none that know of who willingly quit, though I'm sure on paper most (if not all) of those who were "asked" to leave will be recorded as voluntary withdrawls. I'm not sure what the impetus is to get students to "quit" rather than just expel them, but residencies do the exact same thing so it must be something to do with the lawyers.

I was miserable in my pre-clinical years and desperately wanted to quit. I couldn't, since I was on military scholarship, but if I had had any other options I would have.

My medical school was very good at supporting the weak students, and very good at the whole touchy-feely hugging thing. They were not good at dealing with someone like me. I did not understand why my aggressiveness was discouraged, or the desire to do more than what was offered was considered some kind of sin. Everything was focused on public health and primary care, and any suggestion that you weren't considering these fields was something of a heresy to the regular teaching staff. It was all very . . . and forgive me for saying this, but I can't think of any other way to describe it . . . feminine.

After enduring nearly two years, I was emotionally done. I explored options on how to withdraw without ending up as an unrated Seaman chipping paint on a destroyer, but there were none. Fortunately I stuck it out, because I blasted Step 1, got my specialty of choice, and am moderately satisfied with my current surroundings. Still, if I could go back and do it over again, I would never have started in the first place.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I have a world of respect for people who quit this field, especially when they are in medical school, with all the financial and emotional pressure trying to force you to stick it out. Anyone who decides to bail in their pre-clinical years has my undying admiration.

What is your number one specialty though and what did you get on STEP 1?

 

[Barcu]

Law students... their degrees are generally worthless unless they are from a top 10/top20 school

True. But I don't think that explains the attrition rate being much higher for law students than med students, which is what my post was about.

Did they realize they were going nowhere after they finished first year? Maybe some, but I think more fail out or leave without the schools really doing much to stop them.

Med schools will try and stop you.

 

[CodeBlu]

True. But I don't think that explains the attrition rate being much higher for law students than med students, which is what my post was about.

Did they realize they were going nowhere after they finished first year? Maybe some, but I think more fail out or leave without the schools really doing much to stop them.

Med schools will try and stop you.

Not really... there's SOOOO many lawyers already!

That has a lot to do with it. So if they lose a few or even a chunk along the way.. it's NBD.

Med school? Lose 20%? Well that's just plain crappy for EVERYONE.

 

[Barcu]

Not really... there's SOOOO many lawyers already!

That has a lot to do with it. So if they lose a few or even a chunk along the way.. it's NBD.

Med school? Lose 20%? Well that's just plain crappy for EVERYONE.

Agreed. And losing 20% of the med students would be really crappy for everyone, especially the med schools themselves.

I think we are trying to make the same point, but we are not exactly on the same wavelength. Late night, it happens.

 

[CodeBlu]

Agreed. And losing 20% of the med students would be really crappy for everyone, especially the med schools themselves.

I think we are trying to make the same point, but we are not exactly on the same wavelength. Late night, it happens.

Adjust your f.... while I adjust my lambda...

v = f x l ftw.

 

[Sailor Senshi Dermystify]

Not really... there's SOOOO many lawyers already!

That has a lot to do with it. So if they lose a few or even a chunk along the way.. it's NBD.

Med school? Lose 20%? Well that's just plain crappy for EVERYONE.

Are there really a lot of lawyers compared to MD? I thought there were more doctors than lawyers since most of my friends want to be a doctor

 

[CodeBlu]

Are there really a lot of lawyers compared to MD? I thought there were more doctors than lawyers since most of my friends want to be a doctor

44,000 law students.... http://www.nalp.org/uploads/NatlSummaryChartClassof09.pdf

Compared to... some ~20,000ish MD grads... according to AAMC.

Too lazy to look source up.

 

[deleted380953]

Boning on the job will get you kicked out of whatever company your doing work for

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RvNS7JfcMM

sorry, just couldn't help myself...

 

[deleted380953]

Med schools try to keep you from leaving. They are investing a ton of effort and money into you, even if you are flunking, you will have chances to remediation. Leave of absences are also granted if you find that you need to take some time away.

also, is that true?

 

[SoonerFromTexas]

From what I've heard, there's only a ~10-15% attrition rate for US allopathic schools.

At first I thought you said retention rate and I nearly had a heart attack.

 

[Passionandcare]

I don't see how "Some thought they weren't smart enough" could be a reason. If you got into Med School you obviously are a hard worker. If you are focused and working hard(efficiently) there is no reason why you can't.

 

[azerkail]

Boning on the job will get you kicked out of whatever company your doing work for

you clearly don't know much about the pornography business lol

 

[HumbleMD]

also, is that true?

Yep. Med Schools, unlike Law Schools, WANT to see you graduate and be successful. You are a reflection of them, so they'll do what it takes to get you there, including granting a leave of absence (we had 2-3 kids rejoin my class after leaves of absences).

Do people at other schools really not have supportive administrations? I feel like I could let them know what was going on and we'd work through it together if I really need some time off. I hope this is the rule and not the exception.

 

[girlofgrace7]

I don't see how "Some thought they weren't smart enough" could be a reason. If you got into Med School you obviously are a hard worker. If you are focused and working hard(efficiently) there is no reason why you can't.

I just posted on another thread about the retention rate at my school. It's almost impossible not to succeed... we had 1 guy leave first year, and it was originally just supposed to be a year off; we generally have 1-2 people a year have to remediate first year but it's generally due to health reasons or a self-admitted absence of studying (as one guy put it, he didn't know there was a trigeminal nerve by the end of anatomy the first time he took the class.... that's a really bad sign). Administrators and professors really do everything possible to help students succeed.

That said, while no one in my class has dropped out because they "weren't smart enough," I understand the logic. Almost every one in my class went through a period during first year of feeling like they weren't cut out for med school. It's to be expected when you go from top of your class getting As and Bs and then see your first 65% on a test. Also, it's tough when you're surrounded by people who just seem to "get it" easier than you do. It's med school; every one is smart (at least in theory)... in comparison, it's easy to feel dumb.

 

[elegantphoenix]

Agreed. And losing 20% of the med students would be really crappy for everyone, especially the med schools themselves.

I think we are trying to make the same point, but we are not exactly on the same wavelength. Late night, it happens.

True. And not to mention a decrease in the number of future residents and doctors.

 

[Petrichor1]

Wow, I'm kind of surprised the attrition rate is that high. While the curriculum is rigorous the intent is not to "weed out" students.

If I understand this right, I'd say that no matter what an adcom wants...it ultimately isn't the coddling pre-meds might get in their classes where if the average was really low the profs look worried and might do something about it. In med school I feel like it is a train and every point is settled before time. So if the next station is really hard, you just have to keep up. Losing a few people in the first class may mean more admission spots for the class after. Atleast, this is what some of the people have said.

 

[wasteofspace323]

Necro threads are best threads. Thank you based necromancer.

 

[Goro]

Yes, it's a necrobump, but it's still a teaching moment.

My own school's attrition rate is 1-5%.

Students leave due to illness (mental or physical), or their hearts weren't in medicine to begin with (never underestimate the amount of damage a tiger parent can do). Another reason is poor academics. the withdrawal will occur before the student would be dismissed (and leaves less of a black mark).

Students are dismissed for failing too many classes or not being able to pass COMLEX I or II. We've never lost one for professionalism issues.

Just under 94% in 5 years (there is a spate of those taking an extra year to do research in order to more competitive for top residency spots)
Just under 97% in 8 years (accounting for dual degrees).\

A school that has 5% average in any 2 years (or 3 out of 5) was an informal guideline for "inquiry"

DO schools are a percentage point more on average. A few years ago one school had a large transition ("take over" by a larger university, much upheaval in staff and administration, too fast increase in class size) had 8% attrition and it was nearly scandalous

 

[Satire5Texul]

[e] I just realized the threat is more about...why you quit.
Not being forced to quit.
My bad. but its still an informative video in its own right.

 

[CaliforniaDreamer]

One of the founders of the startup I work at quit during his MS4 year at Stanford to start the company. But apparently they told him he can come back whenever he wants and finish.

 

[Goro]

Indeed. Often it seems harder to get out of medical school than into it...meaning, once we accept you, we do everything in our power to make sure you graduate!

It also should pointed out that once you are accepted and matriculated, medical schools take the responsibility in helping the student and giving them the opportunity to be successful. Repeating a course, a year, etc. Obviously there is a limit and it isnt making the work easier. But you get support.

 

[wasteofspace323]

[e] I just realized the threat is more about...why you quit.
Not being forced to quit.
My bad. but its still an informative video in its own right.

This video was actually really interesting and candid. It also made me want to be a scuba instructor.

 

[Satire5Texul]

This video was actually really interesting and candid. It also made me want to be a scuba instructor.

She picked herself up seemingly fast. I think I would have been somewhere on a bridge leveraging a 7th attempt on the test with a negotiator.

I would sign up for her class

 

[familyaerospace]

Indeed. Often it seems harder to get out of medical school than into it...meaning, once we accept you, we do everything in our power to make sure you graduate!

You are making me feel slightly better although I don't like the feeling I am in the Mafia! (I leave the Mafia to the Italian members of the family!)

 

[lmn]

[e] I just realized the threat is more about...why you quit.
Not being forced to quit.
My bad. but its still an informative video in its own right.

Wasn't she Caribbean? I wouldn't compare Caribbean students' experiences to US MD at all.

 

[Satire5Texul]

No idea honestly.
I just found that on YouTube when searching for med school related videos.

 

[Mad Jack]

She picked herself up seemingly fast. I think I would have been somewhere on a bridge leveraging a 7th attempt on the test with a negotiator.

I would sign up for her class

Life's about a whole lot more than what you do for a living...

 

[Satire5Texul]

I'll start living once I make it in.

And happiness doesn't have one definition. It's highly variable. And influenced by a lot more psychologically than I can bother to write here.

So as long as a person is happy that's all that matters......

Not saying this is about you, just in general, but it's foolish to look at another human being and think: wow, that person has no life, all they do is X, Y, Z. When they are hundreds of thousands of people that can take the same point of view on you way of living.