Radiology Fellowship for IMG: Help wanted!

[tef]

Hello, first some details of my situation:
I'm a radiology resident from the Netherlands. I'm in my last year now (5th) and looking for a fellowship position in the states in neuroradiology.
I passed step 1 and 2 CK of the usmle's with average scores. I'm doing my step2 CS this coming december after which I'll be ECFMG certified.
I'm looking to start somewhere in 2009 or beginning of 2010.
Is it hard to find a good fellowship position as an IMG with average scores? For some programs you need to be board certified. Is it true that I could be eligible for the boards after doing a two year fellowship and then working for two years as a staff radiologist at the same hospital?? Do I need to do an internship for a fellowship? Are there also fellowship programs outside of the NRMP match system??
I can use any advice I can so I hope some of you will take some time to reply to my questions,
Thanks in advance!!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[vent]

http://www.theabr.org/DR_IMG.htm

 

[f_w]

Is it hard to find a good fellowship position as an IMG with average scores?

For rads fellowship, your scores don't really matter that much (except of course that you have to pass). More important would be support from your current department chairman, chief of neuroradiology or the like.

For some programs you need to be board certified.

Or the equivalent in your home country.

Is it true that I could be eligible for the boards after doing a two year fellowship and then working for two years as a staff radiologist at the same hospital??

Yes.

Do I need to do an internship for a fellowship?

Not for the fellowship per se.

Radiologists who go this alternate pathway to board certification can run into trouble down the line when they try to get state medical licenses. Most states require 2-3 years of US or canadian 'graduate medical education' to be eligible for licensure. Neurorad is ACGME accredited, so you are typically fine from that aspect. A couple of states however require an 'accredited internship' meaning PGY-1 of a clinical residency in order to be eligible for licensure. Those states can be a problem.

Are there also fellowship programs outside of the NRMP match system??

Not many in neurorad. Your best bet is going to go through the match.

Good luck. While neurorad has picked up in competitiveness recently, it is still pretty open to well qualified overseas candidates. Many institutions don't do the combination deal, so make sure you have that nailed down before you start.
(the dark downside of this combination deal is that you are quite dependent on the goodwill of your boss. some docs from less attractive places than the netherlands are stuck in rather exploitative relationships due to this fact. key is never to appear dependent on this deal but to be able to go back on short notice if you so desire, or at least to leave that impression with your bosses).

 

[tef]

f_w,
Thanks for your swift reply!!
What exactly do you mean by "the combination deal"?
How do program directors react to direct contact e.g. by phone after applying for a fellowship?? Is this seen as a sign of interest and dedication or is this perceived as inappropiate?
Do you (or anybody) know if doing a fellowship here in the Netherlands improves my chances in the states? (seems logical imho).
Where do I find a list of States that require an internship for licensure. the ABR site maybe?
And last: What are competitive neurorad programs in the US? The ones in Miami or California (sunny) or maybe the ones in Baltimore and Rochester (high profile) or maybe NYC and Austin (just being cool cities to live)??
I hope you or someone else can answer these questions for me.
I appreciate any help very much!!
Thanks
T

 

[f_w]

f
What exactly do you mean by "the combination deal"?

fellowship + junior attending ---> ABR certification

How do program directors react to direct contact e.g. by phone after applying for a fellowship??

Fellowship directors tend not to be as innundated with applicants as residency directors. They are more in a recruiting mode. So contacting them in a respectful manner can be useful, particularly if your situation is non-standard.

Do you (or anybody) know if doing a fellowship here in the Netherlands improves my chances in the states?

It would certainly put you into a better position to do the fellowship+faculty deal.

Where do I find a list of States that require an internship for licensure. the ABR site maybe?

federation of state medical boards fsmb. poke around on their website, they have the licensure requirements listed (it might not spell it out in the necessary detail though).

And last: What are competitive neurorad programs in the US? The ones in Miami or California (sunny) or maybe the ones in Baltimore and Rochester (high profile) or maybe NYC and Austin (just being cool cities to live)??

All of the above.

There are two kinds of competitiveness:
- academic
- interesting place to live

So you will find academically mediocre programs in nice locations and academically interesting places in the middle of nowhere.

If you want to do the fellowship+faculty deal with the long-term goal of staying in the US, you actually have to look for something else: Middle of the road places that have difficulty recruiting neurorad faculty (because those are the ones interested in the 4-5 year committment from you).

 

[tef]

Thanks again,
Your help is much appreciated. I'll take your advice by heart!
Kind regards
t

 

[tlu]

Hello,

I read this thread with interest. But I have some remaining questions.

As I refer to fellowships eligibility, most programs ask applicants to be state licensed before starting to work. The problem is every medical boards require at least one to two years of clinical practice in an ACGME program to deliver the license.

Does it simply mean that it is practically impossible to enter a fellowship program without clinical experience in the States or in Canada?

Best regards.

tlu

 

[f_w]

Does it simply mean that it is practically impossible to enter a fellowship program without clinical experience in the States or in Canada?

Most US docs will be eligible for an unrestricted state medical license at that point. Fellowships prefer this. In most cases, if you are not eligible for an unrestricted license, the program will be able to sponsor you for some sort of a restricted license (this depends on the state and comes by various names 'postgraduate training permit', 'restricted license', 'training license' etc.)

In ACGME accredited fellowship there is usually no such problem. You are required to allways work under supervision. Some of the non-ACGME fellowships use (abuse) their fellows as junior faculty, e.g. to sign out the on-call residents on the weekend (so the high-flying academicians don't have to come in for their 1:25 call).

 

[Krishi]

Hey Guys,

I am an IMG, Looking ahead for last moment openings or left outs in PEADIATRIC or VIR RADIOLOGY...

I have been calling at places and hearing big NOs. Its been frustratig after a months dedicated efforts. DO any of you guys know of any openings?

Any form of inputs is highly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[radiologie]

Hello tef,
I was wondering if you got a fellowship in the states, i'm also in sort of the same situation: just finished my radiology residency in the Netherlands (VUmc) and because my wife is from the states i am trying to get a job as a radiologist in the states. So did you get a fellowship and are you already working in the US as a radiologist? if so, i would apreciate any tips you could give me.
Thanks for your help

 

[JOKER007]

Hi guys,
I m also in a fix right now. I m currently in radiology pgy1 & want to get into IR or MSK radiology in US.
Should I apply for fellowships after completion of my residency or apply for radiology residency.
How to go about it. Can anyone show me the direction I should take in my career in relation to radiology in US.

 

[JOKER007]

Plz do reply guys.

 

[radiomedicine]

Joker007-
If you want to live in the united states long term- then do the residency pathway, which means getting research experience/case reports, good scores and great letters. Doing an observership while you are a resident may help you gain some letters too. The fellowship route is still possible and is shorter by one year (4 vs 5), but is fraught with other problems besides getting four years in the same hospital. IR and MSK are highly competitive for even US grads.

 

[gonogo]

Honestly, there's no need to do residency here in the US if you're already doing radiology residency in your country. There are plenty of FMGs who skipped residency and went straight into fellowship (after finishing radiology residency in their country). That's one of the big advantages of radiology over the other specialties, as in most other specialties, FMGs need to go through residency again.