RADIOLOGY VS. ANESTHESIOLOGY VS. PM&R

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can someone tell me the pros and cons of the above specialties? please include liefstyle, salary, hours, ease of ability in finding employment opportnuties, etc.
 
Your questions are a little broad and many of them can be answered with some research on your part. Why don't you start by learning about the specialties at www.medschool.com first? Then come back to SDN and ask more specific questions.
 
Sometimes it is difficult to get to the page that you want to through that link. Try http://www.students.medschool.com , then click on specialty profiles, it has all of the information that you were asking about.
 
i already tried that page. it didnt really give me any insight. thats why i posted this message in here.
 
Anesthesia
Pros: no continuity of care, high demand, above ave pay, relatively low stress residency.
Cons: you are responsible for nurse anesthetetists, limited fellowship opportunities (eg pain,critical care), competetion is above ave to attain res,
Hospital based (Insurance/mergers)

Radiology: High pay, High demand, no continuity of care,many fellowship opportunities
Cons: tough call,highly competetive, high unmatch rate,potential for cancer/leukemia,three sets of boards (eg physics, written/clinical, oral boards), hospital based (INSURANCE COMPANIES/mergers/etc)

PMR: ave demand, continuity of care, limited if any call, above ave pay,personal satisfaction for rehab of patients,easier residency comp to ave
Cons: chronic patients

1
You need to assess your application: grades/boards/research.
2
assess your personality and goals
3
assess your interpersonal skills (esp for radiology and anesthesia)
4
assess your manual dexterity
(esp rad/anesthesia)
5
assess your family situation
(wife's career,children status)
-in the mid 90s rads/anesthesia had to move to isolated areas because of decreased demand
 
Wow -- I wouldn't have considered "no continuity of care" to be a positive thing, but I guess that's just me. 🙂
 
In response to platinumdoc regarding radiology:

"potential for cancer/leukemia"
This is probably not true and has never been proven. Radiologists are well trained regarding radiation safety issues. Unless you are an interventionalist your risk is probably similar to many other specialists who use fluroscopy. I think that Orthopods or Interventional Cardiologists have a higher risk because they are not well trained in radiation safety.

"tough call"
But much less frequent. At some places averages q8-q14. If you are not at a trauma center than probably not as bad either.

"hospital based (INSURANCE COMPANIES/mergers/etc)"
What physicians are not affected by insurance companies, mergers, and other HMO sequela. Also some Radiologists practice out of free-standing diagnostic centers not affiliated with hospitals.


🙂
 
Radiology with a tough call? I would imagine anesthesia would have it tougher.
 
Did I say tough call? It doesn't compare to surgery, medicine but you are getting paged throughout the night and are lucky to get 1 hour of sleep a night (as a lower level resident). The nice thing is most programs let you go home after turnover 0700-0800.
 
I didn't realize that radiologists had to take "physics" boards. Could you elaborate on this? Do you get all of the physics info you need in training, or are you expected to to acquire it in some other way (undergrad preparation, extra courses, research, etc...)

Thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this.
 
In most programs, you are given a physics review course which lasts about 6 months. You have to learn the basic science and formulas for the boards. If you don't do well in math or physics, it can make for a challenging board exam 🙂
 
Platinumdoc u did say rough call for radiology...
 
I feel stupid asking this, but what is PM&R?
 
And the answer is ...

What is pain management & rehabilitation?
 
I thought it was Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation. As opposed to Pain Management and Rehabilitation.
 
Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation.
 
Rough Junior Call is what I meant. There are some residencies that let you start independent call 6 months after beginning PGY2 training. There are some programs that give the juniors everything except for angio call. This can become a rough night especially with busy ERs. Your pager will go off every 3 - 5 minutes.

You have a trial by fire but you leave smokin'.... 😉
 
I tend to disagree that anesthesiology has few subspecialty choices vs. the plentiful in radiology. Here's current anesthesiology subspecialties:
1. cardiac anesthesia (salaries comparable to any radiologist and even the CT surgeon)
2. pain management $$$, probably even more than a typical radiologist for sure
3. critical care (usually run the SICU)
4. pediatric anesthesia
5. transplant anesthesia
6. probably a couple others (and possible future: geriatric anesthesia)

I don't know how many radiology subspecialties there are though.

In answer to the original question, both anesthesiology and radiology offer little patient contact, great pay, and a good life style (depending on how much pay). I think you have to decide what suits you. As for PMR, an excellent specialty and lot easier than the the other two, but the pay will be a lot less as well. But hey, a good life is worth a lot. Pathology is also a good lifestyle if you like the microscope and the lower pay now.
 
This is not meant to attack you in any way, but I just want to say that these are very different specialties in terms of the job you do (except Anesthesia vs PM&R pain management) and you really should consider your enjoyement of the job more than the lifestyle. All of these three can provide a good lifestyle, but if you are going to be miserable reading films or dealing with stroke patients all day, that lifestyle will not make up for it.
 
I'd have to disagree with point #2. I doubt that pain docs make more than diagnostic or interventional radiologists on average.
 
pain interventionalists bring the mother load home. i mean very few fields in medicine will give you a legitemate opportunity to bring home 1 million dollars a year but if there ever was one it would be pain management.(now obviously i'm not saying all pain docs bring home 1million but i think there definately are some that do)
 
Voxel,

I believe that the average pay for a boarded interventionalist in pain management is higher than that of a boarded diagnostic radiologist (by approximately 50 - 100,000: Diag rads average about 280; interventional pain is about 330). Interventional radiologists make a fortune, and the only thing comparable from anesthesia is cardiac (eventhough I can't get the exact numbers from anywhere...in general fellowship positions in specialties...especially procedurally based ones...tend to provide compensation in the range of approximately 100,000 dollars more). Anyway, irrelevant. They both make great money. Do what you love...don't worry about the cash. Nobody who ever became truly wealthy didn't start of by doing something they genuinely loved. Hopefully in your life you will use that as your measure of success.

Good luck...
 
sorry...didn't mean that last part to be directed at voxel. it was directed more at whoever started the post....
 
Latest numbers from ACR survey directly from the mouth of a former big wig at the ACR (american college of radiology)are $356K/yr average rads salary as of 2002 data. Anyway it really does not matter, if you like interventional pain then so be it. Do what you enjoy as there are plenty of ways to make good money. You can go into investment banking and make $5M/yr. My dad has friend who does this. He is bored to tears, but he makes bank. You can make $1 million in rads as well. I have heard of a resident from where I did rads research who graduated and works in Texas as a partner making over that 1M/yr. However, he works his butt off, 80+hrs/wk, not including call, Q6 overnight and Q3 weekends 9-6. He says he plans on working 10 years and then retiring. A burned out french fry, but a rich one none the less.
 
Duuhhhh, Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation
Thanks GI Guy
 
I wish you people would keep the focus of medicine on sick people not money. You disgust me.Most physicians have a better lifestyle than most in America. They drive nice cars, own nice homes, their children are educated at the best schools, basically live a cushy lifestyle. Whether you are a pediatrician or a surgeon you will get respect of having gone through X amount of years from the general public, among your peers you get respect for how well you do your job. If you want to make big money go on Wall Street and trade, why go kill yourself in 10+ years of education. I sure as hell would not.
Go into a specialty that suits your strengths,likes and dislikes. Do not choose just by $$$$$$$$. Grow up people. Medicine is a calling, not a business venture!!!. People get MBA's for that. •••quote:••• ••••😡
 
I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you if you think medicine is not a business. It is the business of providing diagnosis, treatment, and a little TLC for sick patients. Income is just one factor by which people in the real world make their decisions on what to do with their life, including fields in medicine.
 
Two points:
1) Pain docs that own their own free-standing facility can make awe-inspiring bank-- and their call is minimal. It is frequently a higher paying specialty with respect to dollars/hour than radiology (you need to own your own facility for this to happen). But you have to like dealing with chronic pain patients (and running a clinic -- yeesh). In many respects, there are fewer headaches to deal with in radiology.
2) jojo, no offense, but I didn't even have to look at your profile to see that you are still in the pre-clinical years. Re-check your attitude in about 16 months; it might shock you how much it will have changed. The things you find out about yourself during third year aren't always flattering. 🙂
 
You are right, I am in my pre-clinical years. And guess what I am going to have 100-150 thousand worth of debt (and others more than that), but this is not going to stop me from choosing a specialty that makes me happy. It is my opinion if you have a goal to make crazy money you can no matter what specialty, yes you may work more hours than the next area, but you got to do what you do best and what you love point blank.

I am not saying money does not come into the picture, hey money makes the world go round. Yes I want to get rid of my debt just like everybody else. Yes after studying my butt off I want to get a Lexus, and have MD on my license plate ( Yes indeed), and a nice house and be able to travel the world.But guess what everybody wont necessarily get into a field that is extremely lucrative.
And the other issue is what if everybody had the chance to shoot for the exclusive residencies and get them you know what would happen? The primary care fields would be in dire need. Everyone needs a good internist,pediatrician, or ob/gyn. Do you go to the doctor?. Could you imagine not having some a primary care doc to see for something routine. Do you people have kids? When it is time to take your child to the physician they need to see a pediatrician right? Do you see where i am going with this?
Medicine is a diverse field, needing the talents for every area. I could not imagine not having a good anesthesiologist and surgeon either god forbid I had to go into surgery.

Yes we are in a businees oriented society, it is going to be part of the way we think about our career long term but that does not mean we choose a speciality based on superficial notions.

So basically they are those who will shoot for the dollar signs and those who will shoot for happiness. But there will be those who get both.And god bless them.
I saw a post on one of these medical student websites about a guy who had a friend who was a family practictioner and made bewteen 300,000-400,000 a year. But of course he was working his butt off. But you cant tell me he did not like being a family practitioner. I would not kill myself doing something I did not like, would you?

Hey , I dont know what I want to do yet, I am more interested in the primary care fields, but I might change my mind, but it would solely be based on my strengths,and personality. I have a friend who went to Mount Sinai School of Medicine in NY. She wanted to do orthopedic surgery, but did not have the boards to do it. She ended up getting anesthesiology and really is not that excited. She is in her second year of residency, and regrets not having gone for Emergency Medicine. So basically I look at her as an example, and she has given me advice about doing what I would enjoy, and having a back up ready.

So success comes from doing something you love.
 
I think many people make a list of what things are attractive and important to them and then decide weighing each factor. And love for the speciality is just one factor. There are women in my class who would love to be neurosurgeons, but instead matched into neurology because they want to have children early and be able to enjoy spending time with them. Neurosurgery is mostly incompatible with these two different needs. Both women choose neurology instead of neurosurgery. Will it be the end of their life if they don't operate instead diagnose and prescribe meds? While it's great to be in a field you love, sometimes it's not compatible with your other goals. When you are in the field you love above all else and it's compatible with of the factors that are important to you, then you will find your specialty that much more enjoyable.

Also, there will always be parts of every specialty that are less enjoyable than other parts. I don't think it will be 100% joy practicing your specialty. Their will be less appealing aspects of every field.

Come on, you gotta get real buddy. Real life is not black or white, just shades of grey. Spare us the holier than though lectures. Most people understand that happiness comes in degrees not in the form of a yes I am happy or no I am not.

I for one am happy (10/10) that radiology fits my criteria very nicely (including loving the field above all others), but some of my classmates have had to make some tough decisions this year. Also, to some of my fellow classmates going into radiology, it's just a good job with good options and a nice salary. There are people going into medicine who probably won't match into radation oncology, derm, etc. Life will go on and they will find things that interest them and fit their criteria for happiness.
 
I'm doing a rotation in a pain clinic at the moment and I'll offer some insight.
1. The practice is entirely based on referrals - you live and die off surgeons sending you patients they don't want to cut on or are unsure of. THis means you kiss a lot of ass.
2. Workman's comp is where the $$$ is at. They pay for everything, BUT you have to deal with case managers from the company. I've seen verbal fights come out of these encounters between doc and case worker with the pt just sitting in the middle not able to do anything. It's depressing.
3. The drug companies love you. The reps come in like 3 times a week giving you whatever drugs you want and bring big lunches.
4. You have no call, but you have a pager that drug addicts love to bug you with. Pts can turn into monsters unintentionally and you can inherit them from referrals. They love to bug you.
5. Future - considering the increasing geriatric population, good. Surgeons just don't want to cut on old people (>70) so you're clientel will only increase. There is huge research into pain drugs and that is to your benefit. THere seems to be an increase in pain treatment by docs so your practice appeals to them, since they can refer them to you and avoid responsibility if they end up becoming monsters.
Would I go into this field? Maybe, it's very limiting in what you do and rather boring. I like the future of the field and not being confined to a hospital for my entire career.
 
jojod. said:
Yes after studying my butt off I want to get a Lexus, and have MD on my license plate ( Yes indeed),



tool
Click to expand...
 
Something that radiologists fail to mention is that when they work...they are working. I know that in other fields of medicine, there is a lot of down time and nurses can perform functions that physicians would rather avoid. In IM related fields, you can do a lot of bullshytting with your patients that can make the time go by faster. Radiologists may have very decent hours but those are very intense hours. They are asked to read and interpret a very high volume of images within that time. It's not like they are playing on their computer all day which is what medical students think until they do a rads rotation. They are not being paid 400-500K to sit on a beach in Maui and read 5 images. They work very intense hours and often in isolation.
 
novacek88 said:
Something that radiologists fail to mention is that when they work...they are working. I know that in other fields of medicine, there is a lot of down time and nurses can perform functions that physicians would rather avoid. In IM related fields, you can do a lot of bullshytting with your patients that can make the time go by faster. Radiologists may have very decent hours but those are very intense hours. They are asked to read and interpret a very high volume of images within that time. It's not like they are playing on their computer all day which is what medical students think until they do a rads rotation. They are not being paid 400-500K to sit on a beach in Maui and read 5 images. They work very intense hours and often in isolation.
Click to expand...


yaay isolation!
 
ok, this might sound silly, but isn't ortho a very physically demanding specialty? any female ortho surgeon at all?
jojod. said:
You are right, I am in my pre-clinical years. And guess what I am going to have 100-150 thousand worth of debt (and others more than that), but this is not going to stop me from choosing a specialty that makes me happy. It is my opinion if you have a goal to make crazy money you can no matter what specialty, yes you may work more hours than the next area, but you got to do what you do best and what you love point blank.

I am not saying money does not come into the picture, hey money makes the world go round. Yes I want to get rid of my debt just like everybody else. Yes after studying my butt off I want to get a Lexus, and have MD on my license plate ( Yes indeed), and a nice house and be able to travel the world.But guess what everybody wont necessarily get into a field that is extremely lucrative.
And the other issue is what if everybody had the chance to shoot for the exclusive residencies and get them you know what would happen? The primary care fields would be in dire need. Everyone needs a good internist,pediatrician, or ob/gyn. Do you go to the doctor?. Could you imagine not having some a primary care doc to see for something routine. Do you people have kids? When it is time to take your child to the physician they need to see a pediatrician right? Do you see where i am going with this?
Medicine is a diverse field, needing the talents for every area. I could not imagine not having a good anesthesiologist and surgeon either god forbid I had to go into surgery.

Yes we are in a businees oriented society, it is going to be part of the way we think about our career long term but that does not mean we choose a speciality based on superficial notions.

So basically they are those who will shoot for the dollar signs and those who will shoot for happiness. But there will be those who get both.And god bless them.
I saw a post on one of these medical student websites about a guy who had a friend who was a family practictioner and made bewteen 300,000-400,000 a year. But of course he was working his butt off. But you cant tell me he did not like being a family practitioner. I would not kill myself doing something I did not like, would you?

Hey , I dont know what I want to do yet, I am more interested in the primary care fields, but I might change my mind, but it would solely be based on my strengths,and personality. I have a friend who went to Mount Sinai School of Medicine in NY. She wanted to do orthopedic surgery, but did not have the boards to do it. She ended up getting anesthesiology and really is not that excited. She is in her second year of residency, and regrets not having gone for Emergency Medicine. So basically I look at her as an example, and she has given me advice about doing what I would enjoy, and having a back up ready.

So success comes from doing something you love.
Click to expand...
 
RobHan said:
ok, this might sound silly, but isn't ortho a very physically demanding specialty? any female ortho surgeon at all?
Click to expand...

Sure, I have seen them. They're usually of the strong German stock...they can take you on in a fight. :laugh:
 
novacek88 said:
Something that radiologists fail to mention is that when they work...they are working. I know that in other fields of medicine, there is a lot of down time and nurses can perform functions that physicians would rather avoid. In IM related fields, you can do a lot of bullshytting with your patients that can make the time go by faster. Radiologists may have very decent hours but those are very intense hours. They are asked to read and interpret a very high volume of images within that time. It's not like they are playing on their computer all day which is what medical students think until they do a rads rotation. They are not being paid 400-500K to sit on a beach in Maui and read 5 images. They work very intense hours and often in isolation.
Click to expand...

People do seem to think that radiologists are sitting on their behinds playing with the computer, but it just isn't so. Imagine having several hundred "where's Waldo" puzzles and having only a limited amount of time to go through them all and find all the waldos. You miss one and it can be a costly error. I suggest that every radiology applicant try this example, all while taking and answering phone calls about all the waldos he/she may or may not have already looked at and techs coming in and piling more puzzles on your tray.
 
I am posting here, because it's the anesthesia vs rads forum.

IN anesthesia, there are groups where you can work as many hours as you want. Does such thing exist in radiology currently? WOuld I be able to work 40 hours a week or work on and off doing temp work (say, 6 months on 6 months off?). I have sign. health problems and anticipate them getting worse as i get older...
 
In rads, you can do locum tenens work 2-3 days out of the week if you want. Then at the end of the assignment, which may last 2-5 months, you may simply not take another one for a month or two...

You can be flexible.
 
Rads groups will often have a couple of part timers. These are often women who will do only mammography for example. Mammo is a 9-5 business and because nobody is interested in doing it, groups will allow the mammo queen to work part time (the other part timers are often ex partners who are in semi retirement).

The part time members of a group are rarely partners and therefore don't share in the profit. They get paid whatever the local market requires, but they don't share in the success of the group as a whole. You will still make more than many primary care docs, but working part time it doesn't scale with the 'regular' incomes.
 
Thank you, guys or girls
From this i gather, that it is pretty uncommon to be a part-time radiologist? (unless u do locums)? Aside from being a mammo queen, is it uncommon to be a 'general' diagnostic radiologist but work half-time? is it looked down upon in the field if you work on/off or part time? In anesthesia, i know, nobody really cares how much time off you take. But rads is such a rapidly changing field that being out of work for few years might hinder employment later (just seems to me that it would be so).
 
Docmike2006 said:
People do seem to think that radiologists are sitting on their behinds playing with the computer, but it just isn't so. Imagine having several hundred "where's Waldo" puzzles and having only a limited amount of time to go through them all and find all the waldos. You miss one and it can be a costly error. I suggest that every radiology applicant try this example, all while taking and answering phone calls about all the waldos he/she may or may not have already looked at and techs coming in and piling more puzzles on your tray.
Click to expand...

Preach on Docmike

I respect radiologists because their job is not easy. I think you and other radiologists should do a better job informing med school applicants that radiology is not a chill job. It has a lot of perks but it's not like dermatology or allergy in which you come in at 9 AM and leave at 3 PM and still earn 300K. Radiologists are earning those high salaries. I just laugh when a med student tells all his friends, he is going into rads so he can work from home and watch ESPN while making a crazy amount of "cash" There is so much ignorance among 3rd and 4th year med students.
 
novacek88 said:
Preach on Docmike

I respect radiologists because their job is not easy. I think you and other radiologists should do a better job informing med school applicants that radiology is not a chill job. It has a lot of perks but it's not like dermatology or allergy in which you come in at 9 AM and leave at 3 PM and still earn 300K. Radiologists are earning those high salaries. I just laugh when a med student tells all his friends, he is going into rads so he can work from home and watch ESPN while making a crazy amount of "cash" There is so much ignorance among 3rd and 4th year med students.
Click to expand...

My father is a radiologist and I seem to hear that a lot....I have had a pretty good view of it my entire life including the early morning calls, angio call, and me sitting behind him for hours watching him work......and I'm still interested in it because I find just about every facet of it interesting...too bad I need to get accepted to medschool and survive it first and maybe then I can consider going into it.....and hey. xray tech girls can be pretty cute as well.
 
But rads is such a rapidly changing field that being out of work for few years might hinder employment later
Click to expand...

There is NO specialty that you can afford to be out of for years. Gaps like that in your work history will make it difficult to obtain hospital priviledges, get malpractice insurance and remain on HMO/insurance panels.

By the way. There are part time employment opportunities in academic radiology. It is just the real private practice sector where the structure of the normal group doesn't really allow for people to be PT.
 
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